"Catholic vs Convicts" ESPN even made a documentary on Miami Notre Dame rivalry. But Miami can not beat FIU nowadays even.

With such a big history and recruiting advantage, Miami still can not compete in ACC, which is not a football conference.

If UCF has what Miami has, heck, we could be celebrating a NY6 Bowl this year

(12-14-2019 03:38 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-14-2019 01:54 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  What happened to Nebraska?
Notre Dame?
Penn State?
Tennessee?
Michigan?

Nebraska won 3 natty's [2 outright] in the 90's. If it weren't for the hiring of Nick Saban you could add Alabama to the list too. Top programs can't always maintain the highest level of success. It can be due to any number of factors. Not the least of which is coaching. Who did Miami, FL have at the helm during their chip runs?

Howard Schnellenberger [1983]
Jimmy Johnson [1987]
Dennis Erickson [1989, 1991]
Larry Coker/Butch Davis [2001]

That's a select group of head coaches. I included Butch Davis because Larry Coker [Miami OC] took over after Butch left to coach the Cleveland Browns. Butch had built Miami up to be a national contender and Larry benefited from that.

Who has coached Miami, FL since then?

Randy Shannon
Al Golden
Mark Richt
Manny Diaz

You cant compare any of those programs to that coke filled, ho paid trash fiasco that was Miami.

Pure trash mercenaries. A stain on the game.

PSU?

The ACC is a much tougher conference than the Big East was. Basically, who Miami competed with back in the BE was Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia. Also back then, FAU, FIU, & even USF for awhile did not have football programs, plus UCF was in FCS back then. Add these four to the mix plus a harder conference schedule with no indoor practice facility for years until recently and you have Miami where they are now. The indoor practice facility will help out a lot, but now coaching seems to be an issue. It seems like Miami does best when they have an alumnus coaching the team but with anyone else, the 'Canes stink it up

(12-15-2019 03:27 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  The ACC is a much tougher conference than the Big East was. Basically, who Miami competed with back in the BE was Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia. Also back then, FAU, FIU, & even USF for awhile did not have football programs, plus UCF was in FCS back then. Add these four to the mix plus a harder conference schedule with no indoor practice facility for years until recently and you have Miami where they are now. The indoor practice facility will help out a lot, but now coaching seems to be an issue. It seems like Miami does best when they have an alumnus coaching the team but with anyone else, the 'Canes stink it up

4 of their 5 National Championships came as an Independent. I think Conference Play is just not good for Miami. They were more a stand alone brand and Independence was the best thing for them. ACC is weak sauce other than Clemson and they still cant compete. They were even fortunate enough to be put in the extremely weak ACC Coastal which is a easy path to the ACC Championship game. I think the Big East was a better fit for them. ACC they are just lost in the shuffle and College Football in the state of Florida has changed completely since the 80s and 90s . UCF has come along and passed Miami on the field. USF is there recruiting as are FAU and FIU plus the SEC is just in a monster stage of dominance and they recruit Florida heavily. As a fan of the old Orange Bowl I will agree with another poster who said driving all the way to Ft. Lauderdale to watch Miami play in a NFL stadium sucks. The old Orange Bowl was a fun place to watch a Miami game even though it was old. They definitely would be better off in a 50k seat stadium in Miami

#1 reason I think is because everybody taking Florida recruits these days. #2 Conference Affiliation. Miami won 9 Big East titles and haven't won an ACC title yet. They were stand alone kings in the Big East and independent, now they are just average joes in the ACC. #3 It takes a special kind of coach to successfully recruit and win at big time Florida schools. Last coaches to do that was Bobby Bowden, Urban Myer, and Jimbo Fisher. #4 Rise of SEC and Clemson. The top SEC schools (Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida)and Clemson are literally draining the life force of every surrounding p5 school.

(12-15-2019 03:27 PM)Crazier Wrote:  The top SEC schools (Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida)and Clemson are literally draining the life force of every surrounding p5 school.

I think this is underrated and also true of Ohio State and LSU. Players are basically seeing there's only a few programs that can legit make the playoff, and they're all starting to cluster there. It's like NBA Superstar Syndrome. Chances were if you went to South Carolina or Tennessee or Arkansas that you weren't going to win a national title, but you could potentially play for an SEC title and a good bowl game.

Now it's apparent that there's at most 8-10 schools that will legitimately be playoff contenders. Alabama can afford to be a 1-loss team because Nick Saban says so, but 1-loss, non-division champ South Carolina or Arkansas will not get the same treatment. So, all the very best players are clustering at fewer and fewer schools to get that playoff opportunity.

The real next step for CFB isn't 4x16 conferences or whatever. It's an entire new league outside of the NCAA that is just the NFL for colleges and contains the programs that ESPN actually cares about with brands that play nationally. There's about 24 or so teams that could be in that, which gets you a Western Conference and an Eastern Conference of 12 teams each.

(12-15-2019 03:43 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:27 PM)Crazier Wrote:  The top SEC schools (Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida)and Clemson are literally draining the life force of every surrounding p5 school.

I think this is underrated and also true of Ohio State and LSU. Players are basically seeing there's only a few programs that can legit make the playoff, and they're all starting to cluster there. It's like NBA Superstar Syndrome. Chances were if you went to South Carolina or Tennessee or Arkansas that you weren't going to win a national title, but you could potentially play for an SEC title and a good bowl game.

Now it's apparent that there's at most 8-10 schools that will legitimately be playoff contenders. Alabama can afford to be a 1-loss team because Nick Saban says so, but 1-loss, non-division champ South Carolina or Arkansas will not get the same treatment. So, all the very best players are clustering at fewer and fewer schools to get that playoff opportunity.

The real next step for CFB isn't 4x16 conferences or whatever. It's an entire new league outside of the NCAA that is just the NFL for colleges and contains the programs that ESPN actually cares about with brands that play nationally. There's about 24 or so teams that could be in that, which gets you a Western Conference and an Eastern Conference of 12 teams each.

I think there are too many mooching sister institutions in the P5 who are there because of connections and not for their play for there ever to be a break off of just 24 teams. Politics would get involved if only the best 24 teams in the country left and formed a Super Conference. As good as the SEC is only 6 of them really matter even less in the Big1G, Pac 12 , Big 12 and ACC.

As corrupt as the NCAA has become and how insane College Football is as a multi billion dollar entertainment industry I have literally gotten to the point where I am just like....F it, let the elite blue bloods break off and do their own thing. ECU is never going to make it to the country club but like most schools we are going broke even trying to keep up.

(12-15-2019 04:10 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:43 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:27 PM)Crazier Wrote:  The top SEC schools (Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida)and Clemson are literally draining the life force of every surrounding p5 school.

I think this is underrated and also true of Ohio State and LSU. Players are basically seeing there's only a few programs that can legit make the playoff, and they're all starting to cluster there. It's like NBA Superstar Syndrome. Chances were if you went to South Carolina or Tennessee or Arkansas that you weren't going to win a national title, but you could potentially play for an SEC title and a good bowl game.

Now it's apparent that there's at most 8-10 schools that will legitimately be playoff contenders. Alabama can afford to be a 1-loss team because Nick Saban says so, but 1-loss, non-division champ South Carolina or Arkansas will not get the same treatment. So, all the very best players are clustering at fewer and fewer schools to get that playoff opportunity.

The real next step for CFB isn't 4x16 conferences or whatever. It's an entire new league outside of the NCAA that is just the NFL for colleges and contains the programs that ESPN actually cares about with brands that play nationally. There's about 24 or so teams that could be in that, which gets you a Western Conference and an Eastern Conference of 12 teams each.

I think there are too many mooching sister institutions in the P5 who are there because of connections and not play for there ever to be a break off of just 24 teams. Politics would get involved if only the best 24 teams in the country left and formed a Super Conference. As good as the SEC is only 6 of them really matter even less in the Big1G, Pac 12 , Big 12 and ACC.

As corrupt as the NCAA has become and how insane College Football is as a multi billion dollar entertainment industry I have literally gotten to the point where I am just like....F it, let the elite blue bloods break off and do their own thing. ECU is never going to make it to the country club but like most schools we are going broke even trying to keep up.

Correct. Somebody has to be the patsy in the league, even if you go down down to 24. Does anyone think Oklahoma, for example, would tolerate having 7-5 type seasons every year or heaven forbid a couple 3-9 seasons?

Can't ignore all the cheating at Miami with the championships. Trying to be somewhat clean now.

(12-15-2019 03:43 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:27 PM)Crazier Wrote:  The top SEC schools (Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida)and Clemson are literally draining the life force of every surrounding p5 school.

I think this is underrated and also true of Ohio State and LSU. Players are basically seeing there's only a few programs that can legit make the playoff, and they're all starting to cluster there. It's like NBA Superstar Syndrome. Chances were if you went to South Carolina or Tennessee or Arkansas that you weren't going to win a national title, but you could potentially play for an SEC title and a good bowl game.

Now it's apparent that there's at most 8-10 schools that will legitimately be playoff contenders. Alabama can afford to be a 1-loss team because Nick Saban says so, but 1-loss, non-division champ South Carolina or Arkansas will not get the same treatment. So, all the very best players are clustering at fewer and fewer schools to get that playoff opportunity.

The real next step for CFB isn't 4x16 conferences or whatever. It's an entire new league outside of the NCAA that is just the NFL for colleges and contains the programs that ESPN actually cares about with brands that play nationally. There's about 24 or so teams that could be in that, which gets you a Western Conference and an Eastern Conference of 12 teams each.

Duh! How could I forget about LSU and Ohio State. Even Oklahoma is appearing to be a better brand than Texas these days. Yes you are absolutely right. Only a few teams in college football truly matter and every other so called p5 is riding those teams success. FSU and Miami are on its last straws of relevancy. Makes you wonder how the AAC is thriving and surviving. I would guess because ESPN of the exposure. Our top schools are surpassing some of these so called p5 schools. I'll take Memphis for example, I know we've had more national televised more than the surrounding SEC schools recently. Even stealing some recruits from SEC schools. If they give this conference a fair shot at the playoffs then it will be the death to alot of programs.

(12-15-2019 04:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 04:10 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:43 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:27 PM)Crazier Wrote:  The top SEC schools (Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida)and Clemson are literally draining the life force of every surrounding p5 school.

I think this is underrated and also true of Ohio State and LSU. Players are basically seeing there's only a few programs that can legit make the playoff, and they're all starting to cluster there. It's like NBA Superstar Syndrome. Chances were if you went to South Carolina or Tennessee or Arkansas that you weren't going to win a national title, but you could potentially play for an SEC title and a good bowl game.

Now it's apparent that there's at most 8-10 schools that will legitimately be playoff contenders. Alabama can afford to be a 1-loss team because Nick Saban says so, but 1-loss, non-division champ South Carolina or Arkansas will not get the same treatment. So, all the very best players are clustering at fewer and fewer schools to get that playoff opportunity.

The real next step for CFB isn't 4x16 conferences or whatever. It's an entire new league outside of the NCAA that is just the NFL for colleges and contains the programs that ESPN actually cares about with brands that play nationally. There's about 24 or so teams that could be in that, which gets you a Western Conference and an Eastern Conference of 12 teams each.

I think there are too many mooching sister institutions in the P5 who are there because of connections and not play for there ever to be a break off of just 24 teams. Politics would get involved if only the best 24 teams in the country left and formed a Super Conference. As good as the SEC is only 6 of them really matter even less in the Big1G, Pac 12 , Big 12 and ACC.

As corrupt as the NCAA has become and how insane College Football is as a multi billion dollar entertainment industry I have literally gotten to the point where I am just like....F it, let the elite blue bloods break off and do their own thing. ECU is never going to make it to the country club but like most schools we are going broke even trying to keep up.

Correct. Somebody has to be the patsy in the league, even if you go down down to 24. Does anyone think Oklahoma, for example, would tolerate having 7-5 type seasons every year or heaven forbid a couple 3-9 seasons?

Yes, because 7-5 will have a different meaning there. No more 7-8 gimme wins every year and only 4-5 real games that matter. If 7-5 wins the division or a wild card and gets you into the playoffs, that will be fine. Just like NFL teams don't expect undefeated seasons.

1) They had some legendary coaches that built the program
2) They lost the “The U” factor/swagger after losing in a huge upset the 2002 National Championship and joining the ACC
3) Clemson has the best Facilities in the nation and a top 3 coach. Outside of that the ACC is boring. I’d way rather play in the SEC if I was a Florida kid recruit.

1. The ACC is a horrible awful FB conference.
2. UCF, USF, FIU and Florida Atlantic joined D1/FBS.
3. Miami shockingly doesn’t even have their own football stadium.

(12-14-2019 01:54 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  What happened to Nebraska?
Notre Dame?
Penn State?
Tennessee?
Michigan?

Nebraska won 3 natty's [2 outright] in the 90's. If it weren't for the hiring of Nick Saban you could add Alabama to the list too. Top programs can't always maintain the highest level of success. It can be due to any number of factors. Not the least of which is coaching. Who did Miami, FL have at the helm during their chip runs?

Howard Schnellenberger [1983]
Jimmy Johnson [1987]
Dennis Erickson [1989, 1991]
Larry Coker/Butch Davis [2001]

That's a select group of head coaches. I included Butch Davis because Larry Coker [Miami OC] took over after Butch left to coach the Cleveland Browns. Butch had built Miami up to be a national contender and Larry benefited from that.

Who has coached Miami, FL since then?

Randy Shannon
Al Golden
Mark Richt
Manny Diaz

Nebraska is not allowed to sign the same non-qualifiers they used to admit back in the day.

(12-15-2019 03:27 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  The ACC is a much tougher conference than the Big East was. Basically, who Miami competed with back in the BE was Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia. Also back then, FAU, FIU, & even USF for awhile did not have football programs, plus UCF was in FCS back then. Add these four to the mix plus a harder conference schedule with no indoor practice facility for years until recently and you have Miami where they are now. The indoor practice facility will help out a lot, but now coaching seems to be an issue. It seems like Miami does best when they have an alumnus coaching the team but with anyone else, the 'Canes stink it up

Randy Shannon, Al Golden, and Mark Richt are good coaches.

Bottom line The Florida directionals.... steal depth from the U. Other major programs can steal recruits away as well.. now that the swagger is gone.

The other thing is that Miami was QB U.... they constantly put QB's in the NFL. Who was the last great QB at the U?

Where have all the great receiver gone?


The U has only finished in the top 20 4 times in the last 14 years. It is astounding to anyone who witnessed their dominance during the Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, and Larry Coker years...

(12-16-2019 11:02 AM)No Bull Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:27 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  The ACC is a much tougher conference than the Big East was. Basically, who Miami competed with back in the BE was Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia. Also back then, FAU, FIU, & even USF for awhile did not have football programs, plus UCF was in FCS back then. Add these four to the mix plus a harder conference schedule with no indoor practice facility for years until recently and you have Miami where they are now. The indoor practice facility will help out a lot, but now coaching seems to be an issue. It seems like Miami does best when they have an alumnus coaching the team but with anyone else, the 'Canes stink it up

Randy Shannon, Al Golden, and Mark Richt are good coaches.

Bottom line The Florida directionals.... steal depth from the U. Other major programs can steal recruits away as well.. now that the swagger is gone.

The other thing is that Miami was QB U.... they constantly put QB's in the NFL. Who was the last great QB at the U?

Where have all the great receiver gone?


The U has only finished in the top 20 4 times in the last 14 years. It is astounding to anyone who witnessed their dominance during the Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, and Larry Coker years...

Very true about the QBs. An elite QB can cover up a lot of other issues, but Miami hasn't had a great QB since Ken Dorsey. Kind of amazing how awful their QB play has been at times given their history too.

The biggest thing is that South Florida no longer has a moat around it. The other elite programs go in there and get elite talent that only Miami and FSU used to even target, much less sign.

How much does ACC pay each member per year?

We have a long way to go...

(12-15-2019 03:27 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  The ACC is a much tougher conference than the Big East was. Basically, who Miami competed with back in the BE was Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia.

If you did some research you'd know that Syracuse and Virginia Tech were regularly ranked in the '90s and early '00s when Miami was in the conference. West Virginia and Boston College also had years where they were ranked.

Miami had to play those teams every year too because there were only 8 teams in the conference. In the ACC they're in a 14-team league and are in the much easier division so they avoid playing Clemson several years. They played Clemson only 3 times this decade.

So basically anyone saying their ACC schedule is harder than their Big East schedule is talking out their you know what and needs to do some research before making untrue statements. Their Big East schedule was actually harder (they played FSU every year in non-conference too).

Miami also won most of it's non-conference matchups and a lot of marquee non-conference matchups when they were in the Big East. As a member of the ACC they've been losing to most of the good teams they play in non-conference and they even lost to FIU this year. But yeah the ACC is just "so tough".

(12-16-2019 06:48 PM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 03:27 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  The ACC is a much tougher conference than the Big East was. Basically, who Miami competed with back in the BE was Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia.

If you did some research you'd know that Syracuse and Virginia Tech were regularly ranked in the '90s and early '00s when Miami was in the conference. West Virginia and Boston College also had years where they were ranked.

Miami had to play those teams every year too because there were only 8 teams in the conference. In the ACC they're in a 14-team league and are in the much easier division so they avoid playing Clemson several years. They played Clemson only 3 times this decade.

So basically anyone saying their ACC schedule is harder than their Big East schedule is talking out their you know what and needs to do some research before making untrue statements. Their Big East schedule was actually harder (they played FSU every year in non-conference too).

Miami also won most of it's non-conference matchups and a lot of marquee non-conference matchups when they were in the Big East. As a member of the ACC they've been losing to most of the good teams they play in non-conference and they even lost to FIU this year. But yeah the ACC is just "so tough".

Hell, with the exception of Clemson the ACC is not much better than the AAC this year.

You are absolutely right though, Syracuse and VT were better programs back then-- Syracuse especially. Mid to late 90s Syracuse had Donovan McNabb, went 9-3 several years in a row and finished in the top 25. VT had a guy name Michael Vick, some of you may have heard of him. Before him they had Jim Druckenmiller who a very good college QB and played briefly in the NFL. Tech had several top 12 teams in the mid to late 90s and finished #2 in the country in 1999.

Those Miami teams in the 80s and 90s were just off the chart in terms of talent. They flat out embarrassed a lot of so-called elite programs on TV and had so much swagger they would run up the score to prove a point.

(12-14-2019 03:55 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  Donna Shalala: University of Miami presidency (2001–2015)

Her decision to abandon the BIG EAST was the beginning of the end for Miami(FL), look at their records and scandals since then.

No she just held the football program to the same standards as the rest of the university.