(12-08-2019 04:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:31 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:45 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:44 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

Thats the ACC bowl lineup you signed up for, lol.

Have NO interest. 7-5 ISU.

Maybe I should scout our next coach (maybe).

Notre Dame got hosed by the CFP and the awful ACC bowl lineup.

The three teams ranked immediately *behind* them in the AP poll are playing #11 Penn State in the Cotton Bowl, #9 Auburn in the Outback Bowl, and #10 Alabama in the Citrus Bowl.

How? They’re splitting almost 6 million and they aren’t a football member. If they wanted a NY6 bowl, then they shouldn’t have been torched by a mediocre Michigan squad.

Listing the Cotton Bowl isn’t a fair comparison, it’s the glorious G5 tie-in. Again, you’re listing Big Ten tie-ins that have existed for 20 plus years. The Irish rejected that league at least twice in that timespan; they made their bed.

Now if you want to talk about how underwhelming the Camping World Bowl sounds, fine. Its origins as the first corporate sellout bowl make it totally tepid in the headlines, but the money is there. They should have stuck with Tangerine when they had the chance, or even the Sunshine Classic.

here's a fun thought. Notre Dame wins 1 more game. Lets say they beat Michigan.

where is Notre Dame Bowling? Do they get into the playoff? Do they crack the Orange- getting ahead of Florida- note I think they get passed by the Orange since the opponent is Virginia- and no regular season rematch....

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been)

How long before BXII teams start shopping around because of the league’s favoritism for Iowa State?

(12-08-2019 11:48 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been)

How long before BXII teams start shopping around because of the league’s favoritism for Iowa State?

Their only other choices were Oklahoma St and Kansas St. Oklahoma St was just there 2 years ago- so that knocks them out. Kansas St- do they really draw well at all???

(12-08-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 11:48 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been)

How long before BXII teams start shopping around because of the league’s favoritism for Iowa State?

Their only other choices were Oklahoma St and Kansas St. Oklahoma St was just there 2 years ago- so that knocks them out. Kansas St- do they really draw well at all???

This is going on years running though. Looking more and more likely Iowa State has the BXII office wrapped around its thumb like Tobacco Road and the ACC.

(12-08-2019 11:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  here's a fun thought. Notre Dame wins 1 more game. Lets say they beat Michigan.

where is Notre Dame Bowling? Do they get into the playoff? Do they crack the Orange- getting ahead of Florida- note I think they get passed by the Orange since the opponent is Virginia- and no regular season rematch....

We're a fatally flawed team on offense (against teams of equal or greater talent) this year and I am grateful we did not make the playoff.

If no rematch was wanted we would be in the flippin RV/KOA/Camping Bowl

The ACC bowl tie ins are horrible. Hope when we renegotiate having ND in the mix will help.

(12-08-2019 11:48 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been)

How long before BXII teams start shopping around because of the league’s favoritism for Iowa State?

LOL

Iowa State fans buy truckloads of bowl tickets; it's the bowls that favor Iowa State, not the conference office.

Congratulations on trying to turn this into a fantasy realignment discussion like someone does in every other thread on this board.

(12-08-2019 11:28 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:31 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:45 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:44 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

Thats the ACC bowl lineup you signed up for, lol.

Have NO interest. 7-5 ISU.

Maybe I should scout our next coach (maybe).

Notre Dame got hosed by the CFP and the awful ACC bowl lineup.

The three teams ranked immediately *behind* them in the AP poll are playing #11 Penn State in the Cotton Bowl, #9 Auburn in the Outback Bowl, and #10 Alabama in the Citrus Bowl.

How? They’re splitting almost 6 million and they aren’t a football member. If they wanted a NY6 bowl, then they shouldn’t have been torched by a mediocre Michigan squad.

Listing the Cotton Bowl isn’t a fair comparison, it’s the glorious G5 tie-in. Again, you’re listing Big Ten tie-ins that have existed for 20 plus years. The Irish rejected that league at least twice in that timespan; they made their bed.

Now if you want to talk about how underwhelming the Camping World Bowl sounds, fine. Its origins as the first corporate sellout bowl make it totally tepid in the headlines, but the money is there. They should have stuck with Tangerine when they had the chance, or even the Sunshine Classic.

I never ***** about bowl destinations nor poll rankings.

I always figure ND should have won more games that year if they wanted a "better" bowl game or a higher ranking.

I have been to see the Irish in the Sun Bowl (2010) and the Independence Bowl (1997).

So, I even support the Irish with Shreveport as the holiday destination.....

Also, no complaining about bowl tie ins, either.

That is one price of independence, as you say. I am fine with that.

(12-08-2019 11:28 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:31 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:45 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:44 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

Thats the ACC bowl lineup you signed up for, lol.

Have NO interest. 7-5 ISU.

Maybe I should scout our next coach (maybe).

Notre Dame got hosed by the CFP and the awful ACC bowl lineup.

The three teams ranked immediately *behind* them in the AP poll are playing #11 Penn State in the Cotton Bowl, #9 Auburn in the Outback Bowl, and #10 Alabama in the Citrus Bowl.

How? They’re splitting almost 6 million and they aren’t a football member. If they wanted a NY6 bowl, then they shouldn’t have been torched by a mediocre Michigan squad.

Listing the Cotton Bowl isn’t a fair comparison, it’s the glorious G5 tie-in. Again, you’re listing Big Ten tie-ins that have existed for 20 plus years. The Irish rejected that league at least twice in that timespan; they made their bed.

Now if you want to talk about how underwhelming the Camping World Bowl sounds, fine. Its origins as the first corporate sellout bowl make it totally tepid in the headlines, but the money is there. They should have stuck with Tangerine when they had the chance, or even the Sunshine Classic.

We all know what the various contracts say. So when I say ND is being "screwed" it's not in a legal-contractual sense.

Just in terms of what they merit based on performance 'on the field'. This year has revealed the flaws in their ties to the power-weak ACC.

Basically, for ND it's like the sales 'rewards' Alec Baldwin announces in Glengary-Glenross, something like "first prize is a trip to hawaii, second prize is a set of steak knives, third prize is you're fired".

That's the ACC bowl lineup. Go unbeaten or play in the Camping Bowl, a third-tier bowl, at 10-2.

(12-09-2019 12:00 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 11:48 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been)

How long before BXII teams start shopping around because of the league’s favoritism for Iowa State?

Their only other choices were Oklahoma St and Kansas St. Oklahoma St was just there 2 years ago- so that knocks them out. Kansas St- do they really draw well at all???

This is going on years running though. Looking more and more likely Iowa State has the BXII office wrapped around its thumb like Tobacco Road and the ACC.

To be fair to Iowa State, for a program hasn't done well historically, they continually prove their passion and loyalty, showing up for games. That should stand for something.

On a side note, got to say the least intriguing games are the NY6. I'm saddened by just how close this Memphis team was to going undefeated, and yet their trajectory being about the same had they gone 13-0 instead of 12-1. The best G5 is going to pair up with that lowest at-large. Memphis goes in either with a new coach, or knowing it will be the last time they see Norvell on its sideline, while PSU will be thinking the conspiracy is still in getting snubbed of the Rose Bowl.

With the way these games are arranged, while it's nice more teams get to play, if this is the best FBS can do at the end of the season, wake me up in 2026.

(12-08-2019 09:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 09:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 08:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 01:10 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Virginia in the Orange :)

I am surprise that the ACC gets this bowl when the ACC as a whole minus Clemson suck this year with 4 or more losses. Boise State would have been a better matchup then Virginia. I think it is time to redo bowl assignments to avoid a 4, 5 or 6 loss teams getting these higher bowls. You do have Boise State and Appalachian State more deserving who could attract viewers than Virginia right now. How many Virginia fans show up compare to Boise State or Appalachia State? Boise's fans are more dedicated to filling their seats than ACC schools.

Yes, three of the five G5 conference champs are more deserving of the Orange Bowl bid than is UVA.

No they aren't since it is controlled by contract. If it was about being deserving the bowls would still be seeking their own participants and ESPN would be out of it altogether.

Since a lot of people seem to be struggling with it, even though my intent would seem obvious ... when I use the term "deserving" in this thread, I mean in an "on the field merit" sense, not a 'contractual' sense.

I am not claiming that any contracts have been violated. The point is, some contracts have IMO dumb provisions that should be changed.

Here's the thing though. Unless you are in the SEC or Big Ten- if you don't make a NY6 game- your bowl game isn't going to be good....

look at where 2nd place teams go
ACC- Camping World
Big Ten- Citrus
Big 12- Alamo
Pac 12- Alamo
SEC- Citrus

Now you could say ACC is less than the others as 2nd place teams play each other. But it's not a huge difference.

(12-08-2019 06:20 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Notre Dame got hosed by the CFP and the awful ACC bowl lineup.

The three teams ranked immediately *behind* them in the AP poll are playing #11 Penn State in the Cotton Bowl, #9 Auburn in the Outback Bowl, and #10 Alabama in the Citrus Bowl.

ND got hosed by the CFP if you think they should have been ranked in the top 10. Or if you think the committee kept Virginia in the top 25 only so the Orange Bowl had to take UVa instead of ND.

Otherwise, it's just a matter of Camping World being the best available bowl, and the bowl selecting Iowa St when they could have selected Ok St or K-St, if that would have made a difference to anyone.

You make several points in a small amount of space, so ...

1) No, not the top 10, but the Irish should have been around #11 or #12. The CFP hated them, kept them at #15 or #16 for no discernible reason.

2) The CFP clearly kept UVA in the top 25 as a courtesy to the ACC, but leaving them out would not have helped Notre Dame, as the OB has to take an ACC team no matter ranked or unranked.

3) Yes, your "otherwise" comment invokes my statement about the lousiness of the ACC bowl lineup. ND was effectively the #3 ACC team (should have been #2, but that's the screwy OB contract), and the best it could do was the lousy Camping Bowl.

(12-08-2019 11:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  here's a fun thought. Notre Dame wins 1 more game. Lets say they beat Michigan.

where is Notre Dame Bowling? Do they get into the playoff? Do they crack the Orange- getting ahead of Florida- note I think they get passed by the Orange since the opponent is Virginia- and no regular season rematch....

With one loss, the Irish surely are in the NY6, either in the playoffs or at worst the Cotton Bowl.

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

For the most part I think we saw the conferences and/or bowls protecting their own interests rather than ESPN getting matchups it would have preferred.

ESPN would rather have Notre Dame playing Florida in the Orange Bowl instead of Virginia-Florida and Notre Dame-Iowa State. And, Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been) because their fans have a reputation for buying lots of bowl tickets no matter where they play.

The Alamo Bowl chose Utah because the Pac-12 doesn't want its CCG loser to drop farther than that. So the Alamo Bowl has Utah-Texas. You think ESPN would have rather had USC-Texas? Of course.

For that matter, Oklahoma State is ranked and has a better record than Texas, and maybe should be in the Alamo Bowl, except that it's likely Texas was sent there because the Big 12 and/or SEC, acting on behalf of the teams, didn't want a Texas vs. Texas A&M game in the Texas Bowl. But there's no doubt ESPN would have loved to have a Texas vs. Texas A&M game to show. Might have had the best ratings of any game other than the CFP bowls and the games played on Jan. 1.

We can blame ESPN for a lot of things, but these aren't the bowl matchups they would have chosen if they were in full control.

You make a good point that some bowls have more power than it is fashionable to assume they have these days, but fail to apply that insight here.

The reason Texas is in the Alamo Bowl is because the Big 12 bowls are not in a "pool", there is a clear pecking-order, and after the NY6 selections, the Alamo Bowl has first-choice of a Big 12 team.

And since Texas is easily the biggest brand name among the available teams, and hasn't played in the Alamo Bowl in six years, there was no way that bowl was going to pass them up. So Texas wasn't "sent" to the Alamo by the Big 12 or ESPN, the bowl grabbed them.

That's also why ND got stuck with Iowa State: The Camping World Bowl is next in the Big 12 selection process, and they could choose among Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or Iowa State. Even though Iowa State was the lowest finisher among those three, and were 7-5 compared to 8-4 for the others, the CWB decided to take them, based on perceived fan traveling power.

(12-09-2019 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 11:28 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:31 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:45 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Thats the ACC bowl lineup you signed up for, lol.

Have NO interest. 7-5 ISU.

Maybe I should scout our next coach (maybe).

Notre Dame got hosed by the CFP and the awful ACC bowl lineup.

The three teams ranked immediately *behind* them in the AP poll are playing #11 Penn State in the Cotton Bowl, #9 Auburn in the Outback Bowl, and #10 Alabama in the Citrus Bowl.

How? They’re splitting almost 6 million and they aren’t a football member. If they wanted a NY6 bowl, then they shouldn’t have been torched by a mediocre Michigan squad.

Listing the Cotton Bowl isn’t a fair comparison, it’s the glorious G5 tie-in. Again, you’re listing Big Ten tie-ins that have existed for 20 plus years. The Irish rejected that league at least twice in that timespan; they made their bed.

Now if you want to talk about how underwhelming the Camping World Bowl sounds, fine. Its origins as the first corporate sellout bowl make it totally tepid in the headlines, but the money is there. They should have stuck with Tangerine when they had the chance, or even the Sunshine Classic.

We all know what the various contracts say. So when I say ND is being "screwed" it's not in a legal-contractual sense.

Just in terms of what they merit based on performance 'on the field'. This year has revealed the flaws in their ties to the power-weak ACC.

Basically, for ND it's like the sales 'rewards' Alec Baldwin announces in Glengary-Glenross, something like "first prize is a trip to hawaii, second prize is a set of steak knives, third prize is you're fired".

That's the ACC bowl lineup. Go unbeaten or play in the Camping Bowl, a third-tier bowl, at 10-2.

It’s all perception. The RV Bowl has a rather large payout outside the NY6 and it’s in Orlando, not a horrible trip for a family. With ND’s national fan base, they’ll be just fine.

Only the Texas, Holiday, Alamo, Outback, and Citrus rank ahead of it.

The ACC has had the Citrus and now the Outback, but I don’t remember how they get a team in there like ND.

(12-09-2019 08:08 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 11:28 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 04:31 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 03:45 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Thats the ACC bowl lineup you signed up for, lol.

Have NO interest. 7-5 ISU.

Maybe I should scout our next coach (maybe).

Notre Dame got hosed by the CFP and the awful ACC bowl lineup.

The three teams ranked immediately *behind* them in the AP poll are playing #11 Penn State in the Cotton Bowl, #9 Auburn in the Outback Bowl, and #10 Alabama in the Citrus Bowl.

How? They’re splitting almost 6 million and they aren’t a football member. If they wanted a NY6 bowl, then they shouldn’t have been torched by a mediocre Michigan squad.

Listing the Cotton Bowl isn’t a fair comparison, it’s the glorious G5 tie-in. Again, you’re listing Big Ten tie-ins that have existed for 20 plus years. The Irish rejected that league at least twice in that timespan; they made their bed.

Now if you want to talk about how underwhelming the Camping World Bowl sounds, fine. Its origins as the first corporate sellout bowl make it totally tepid in the headlines, but the money is there. They should have stuck with Tangerine when they had the chance, or even the Sunshine Classic.

I never ***** about bowl destinations nor poll rankings.

I always figure ND should have won more games that year if they wanted a "better" bowl game or a higher ranking.

I have been to see the Irish in the Sun Bowl (2010) and the Independence Bowl (1997).

So, I even support the Irish with Shreveport as the holiday destination.....

Also, no complaining about bowl tie ins, either.

That is one price of independence, as you say. I am fine with that.

(12-09-2019 08:51 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Here's the thing though. Unless you are in the SEC or Big Ten- if you don't make a NY6 game- your bowl game isn't going to be good....

look at where 2nd place teams go
ACC- Camping World
Big Ten- Citrus
Big 12- Alamo
Pac 12- Alamo
SEC- Citrus

Now you could say ACC is less than the others as 2nd place teams play each other. But it's not a huge difference.

The Alamo Bowl is clearly better than the Camping World Bowl. It has a much bigger payout ($3.8m to $2.3m) a date closer to New Year's (this year it is New Year's Eve), and there is much greater fan interest.

E.g., the Alamo Bowl drew 60,000 last year, the Camping drew 41,000. The CW has drawn 50,000 fans once in the past 8 years. The Alamo hasn't drawn *less* than 55,000 since 2002.

That's why the AB is #2 in the Big 12 pecking order and the CWB is #3.

(12-09-2019 09:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

For the most part I think we saw the conferences and/or bowls protecting their own interests rather than ESPN getting matchups it would have preferred.

ESPN would rather have Notre Dame playing Florida in the Orange Bowl instead of Virginia-Florida and Notre Dame-Iowa State. And, Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been) because their fans have a reputation for buying lots of bowl tickets no matter where they play.

The Alamo Bowl chose Utah because the Pac-12 doesn't want its CCG loser to drop farther than that. So the Alamo Bowl has Utah-Texas. You think ESPN would have rather had USC-Texas? Of course.

For that matter, Oklahoma State is ranked and has a better record than Texas, and maybe should be in the Alamo Bowl, except that it's likely Texas was sent there because the Big 12 and/or SEC, acting on behalf of the teams, didn't want a Texas vs. Texas A&M game in the Texas Bowl. But there's no doubt ESPN would have loved to have a Texas vs. Texas A&M game to show. Might have had the best ratings of any game other than the CFP bowls and the games played on Jan. 1.

We can blame ESPN for a lot of things, but these aren't the bowl matchups they would have chosen if they were in full control.

You make a good point that some bowls have more power than it is fashionable to assume they have these days, but fail to apply that insight here.

The reason Texas is in the Alamo Bowl is because the Big 12 bowls are not in a "pool", there is a clear pecking-order, and after the NY6 selections, the Alamo Bowl has first-choice of a Big 12 team.

And since Texas is easily the biggest brand name among the available teams, and hasn't played in the Alamo Bowl in six years, there was no way that bowl was going to pass them up. So Texas wasn't "sent" to the Alamo by the Big 12 or ESPN, the bowl grabbed them.

That's also why ND got stuck with Iowa State: The Camping World Bowl is next in the Big 12 selection process, and they could choose among Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or Iowa State. Even though Iowa State was the lowest finisher among those three, and were 7-5 compared to 8-4 for the others, the CWB decided to take them, based on perceived fan traveling power.

Not to mention that Oklahoma St had just been there 2 years ago. So Kansas St vs Iowa St- and it's an easy choice.

(12-08-2019 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 11:48 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 07:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-08-2019 06:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well ESPN helps to pay for the CFP and they own the rights to most of the bowls, and as usual we have a bunch of match ups that are uninspiring.

Iowa State was chosen to play Notre Dame over Big 12 teams with better records (as they have often been)

How long before BXII teams start shopping around because of the league’s favoritism for Iowa State?

Their only other choices were Oklahoma St and Kansas St. Oklahoma St was just there 2 years ago- so that knocks them out. Kansas St- do they really draw well at all???

Or Texas if not in the Alamo Bowl.

Iowa St. will fill the bowl. They will be excited to be there.