illiniowl
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RE: 59 pct of Republicans now think College is bad for America
(08-26-2019 01:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: (08-26-2019 12:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: (08-26-2019 11:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: (08-26-2019 11:46 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: (08-26-2019 11:36 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: What's the liberal indoctrination look like? I don't remember my Econ 101 course feeling overly liberal or conservative. Same for any of my other non-science/engineering courses. And the only science/engineering type courses that felt "liberal" were classes focusing on the concepts of sustainable design.
Are we maybe confusing the atmosphere, especially around other students, with what professors are teaching? Or is it that we feel like there should be equal time given to the other side, regardless of how well supported/unsupported it is in the academic community?
First, I think that you have misinterpreted Illini's comments. He specifically indicates that he feels Rice doesnt fit the mold on the general scope of college liberal indoctrination.
Second, If your comments are directed to that general scope, you should be very aware of your own comments over the weekend about the efficacy of argument by single example.
Third, try looking at either of these series of youtube videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH2WeWgcSMk&t=8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Wny9TstEM (The complete Evergreen Story)
Granted Evergreen is at the far end of the bell curve, but the lessons from it can be found in a vast majority of our institutions of higher learning.
Finally, I dont think it can be arguable that college administrators and faculty are overwhelmingly left of center. And one cannot hide from the implication that with such an overwhelming abundance, that a bias in the outlook being taught generally cannot be ignored.
To the bold - I was asking for clarification about Illini's points given that I didn't feel like I experienced those issues as Rice. I thought the question marks would give that away...
And Illini quite explicitly agreed with the statement that he felt that "policing and groupthink enforcement at Rice is .... not as extreme as at universities that make the news." Doesnt seem to warrant a clarification as it seems in line with your more recent than ours experience.
Quote:I agree that academics as a whole are left of center, but I don't have the intimate knowledge of how classes are being taught to say whether or not I feel like there is an obvious bias that comes through in their teaching. Plenty of people put away their bias on a daily basis, so it would be good if we could talk about specifics as opposed to these rather fluffy examples that don't do a good job of actually defining the issue that is trying to be discussed.
I suggest you open up the T-Sip social science class offerings then. The examples therein are quite replete with that. Not really rocket science to use that as a ggod exemplar.
Quote:And like you said, Evergreen is an outlier - would we see a similar issue if we look at Liberty? I've not watched the video to know what exactly they discuss there, but I assume it would apply to a school that is almost certainly attended by rather conservative students.
Yes Liberty is undoubtedly conservative, just as Claremont is libertarian or conservative. Neither gives the short shrift that many (most) institutions give re: squashing outside voices that the administration or main student body might disagree with. Nor do those institutions give the perverse incentive to remove teachers that Evergreen demonstrated just a short while ago.
In fact, with Claremont in particular, you see an unvarnished zeal to actually present 'out of their line' speakers, teachers, and the massive amount of attention outgoing to invite contra-position thought holders to opine in their pretty widespread (at least in the libertarian world) publications like the Claremont Review of Books.
When you see a bunch of Liberty students and/or faculty with the complicit help of administrations trying to stop the liberal version of Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro from speaking on campus, why dont you tell us when that happens.
Or perhaps when you find out the conservative school going out of their way to deny a liberal version of the YAF a school club accreditation, along with the snide emails from college admins (as happened in the last two years at University of Kentucky and those emails being revealed under only under subpoena two weeks ago), then again, please feel free to make that equivalence.
I might be living in a cloistered world. But when you opine or ask that such an equivalence be extended to the Liberty Universitys or the Claremonts of this country, it might behoove you to have actual arguable issues that have recently occurred like those are readily visible in the contra-direction. As opposed to making 'perhaps' type statements.
Tanq, that was the exact reason I was asking Illini to give more details about what he was talking about...
Ironically, none of your examples actually touch on what is being taught on campus, but rather focus on extracurricular issues that relate more to student body concerns/issues, and not the material being taught.
I lack both the personal experience or knowledge through research to evaluate if there is an overwhelming bias in either direction, at any university, with respect to what is taught in the classroom. Illini spoke enough about his feelings of "liberal indoctrination" that I figured he would have some good examples of what he was talking about - yet you seem to want to try and play gatekeeper and not let the question through...
Yes, to clarify, the things my friends (especially the ones with current Rice students) are finding objectionable are more the university's increasing tolerance/indulgence of liberal students' intolerance; they aren't accusing Rice of being a place where liberal faculty overtly belittle conservative viewpoints in class, or hector students, or anything like that.
But not all malfeasance is so cartoonish, right? I am saying that when you live in a bubble, you can at the very least be blind to your own biases, and I did use the phrase "actively or passively." Quite simply, I don't think it's healthy for a profession devoted to the pursuit of ideas to be so overwhelmingly imbalanced. That's my (very general) problem with "college in America." Now, is Rice trying to be any different? Does the Rice admin see an overwhelmingly liberal faculty/admin as a bug or an irrelevancy or (heaven forbid) a feature?
And with regard to the student/campus atmosphere, cannot administration tolerance of intolerant excesses at some point become encouragement and approval?
Also, if you truly are willing to take it on faith that teachers and others can just put away their personal biases in their professional dealings, I'm glad to hear it, but you will find yourself out of step with liberal orthodoxy on that one.
(This post was last modified: 08-26-2019 02:37 PM by illiniowl.)
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