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Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-08-2019 07:14 AM)TerryD Wrote:  It was not the "ex-BE caucus" that doomed UConn's hopes o join the ACC.

FSU and Clemson were opposed to UConn's admission to the ACC.

They wanted a stronger football school, hence Louisville.

Yes, it was a rare situation where the football faction defeated the Carolina Core, which favored UConn.

And *that* happened because at the time, the ACC was vulnerable in football strength and feared that the football powers might bolt. And Maryland had just showed that bolting the ACC was doable. That allowed a restless minority to get its way.

But now, thanks to the GOR, I wonder if the same decision would be made today? The football schools don't have that same leverage they had in 2012.
07-10-2019 07:33 AM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
Not to disparage Louv, I loved how they built their program up, despite their recruiting methods.
Not taking Conn, ACC could have put stranglehold on NYC moved their tourn into the garden.
Now they still got the same promblem, fix FB
07-10-2019 08:05 AM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 08:05 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Not to disparage Louv, I loved how they built their program up, despite their recruiting methods.
Not taking Conn, ACC could have put stranglehold on NYC moved their tourn into the garden.
Now they still got the same promblem, fix FB

I think the ACC adding UConn in 2013 would have given them the best chance of getting the Garden, because the Big East hadn't re-established itself after the split. To me, the ACC misread the northeast landscape in 2013 and figured Syracuse, BC, and Pitt could get MSG. Back then, my biggest worry was a UConn hoops-only invite to the ACC, especially after their 2014 championship.

Here in 2019, i think that ACC-Garden threat is gone, even if they added UConn today. The Big East re-established itself, we got 2 national championships, couple number #1 seeds, great recruiting, and our Xavier-Butler-Creighton adds have been outstanding.

Now, like i wrote in post #89, the ACC may still decide to add UConn for hoops (misreading the situation again), but they waited too long to be able to get the Garden.
07-10-2019 08:42 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 08:42 AM)billyjack Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 08:05 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Not to disparage Louv, I loved how they built their program up, despite their recruiting methods.
Not taking Conn, ACC could have put stranglehold on NYC moved their tourn into the garden.
Now they still got the same promblem, fix FB

I think the ACC adding UConn in 2013 would have given them the best chance of getting the Garden, because the Big East hadn't re-established itself after the split. To me, the ACC misread the northeast landscape in 2013 and figured Syracuse, BC, and Pitt could get MSG. Back then, my biggest worry was a UConn hoops-only invite to the ACC, especially after their 2014 championship.

Here in 2019, i think that ACC-Garden threat is gone, even if they added UConn today. The Big East re-established itself, we got 2 national championships, couple number #1 seeds, great recruiting, and our Xavier-Butler-Creighton adds have been outstanding.

Now, like i wrote in post #89, the ACC may still decide to add UConn for hoops (misreading the situation again), but they waited too long to be able to get the Garden.

I don't think the BE was ever in jeopardy of totally losing the Garden. Share it maybe but lose it no. The Tobacco Triangle likes to have the Championship in Charlotte, NC. It's in their back yard then. The ACC would move the some of the Tournaments to the Garden as they move it around the ACC Territory now, but that State of NC would still get its share of the Tournaments even if UConn had made the cut in 2012 not only to appease the Tobacco Triangle members, but also because Charlotte, NC is in the geographic middle of the ACC and also in the heart of the ACC basketball power base. 07-coffee3
07-10-2019 09:08 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 07:33 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-08-2019 07:14 AM)TerryD Wrote:  It was not the "ex-BE caucus" that doomed UConn's hopes o join the ACC.

FSU and Clemson were opposed to UConn's admission to the ACC.

They wanted a stronger football school, hence Louisville.

Yes, it was a rare situation where the football faction defeated the Carolina Core, which favored UConn.

And *that* happened because at the time, the ACC was vulnerable in football strength and feared that the football powers might bolt. And Maryland had just showed that bolting the ACC was doable. That allowed a restless minority to get its way.

But now, thanks to the GOR, I wonder if the same decision would be made today? The football schools don't have that same leverage they had in 2012.

I'm not sure who the "Carolina Core" is in this case, or who they supported. But most of the new member decisions by the ACC in the past 40 years have been football driven.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2019 09:18 AM by ken d.)
07-10-2019 09:17 AM
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Post: #106
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 08:05 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Not to disparage Louv, I loved how they built their program up, despite their recruiting methods.
Not taking Conn, ACC could have put stranglehold on NYC moved their tourn into the garden.
Now they still got the same promblem, fix FB

If Louisville could do it, UConn had more opportunity to do it. They didn't have to compete with the Big Blue Nation down I-64. And being in the Big East for basketball, they had more prominence than UL.
07-10-2019 11:15 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 11:15 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 08:05 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Not to disparage Louv, I loved how they built their program up, despite their recruiting methods.
Not taking Conn, ACC could have put stranglehold on NYC moved their tourn into the garden.
Now they still got the same promblem, fix FB

If Louisville could do it, UConn had more opportunity to do it. They didn't have to compete with the Big Blue Nation down I-64. And being in the Big East for basketball, they had more prominence than UL.

Being at the point where the South meets the Great Lakes region, Louisville is in a far, far better location for football recruiting than UConn is. Agreed regarding basketball, as evidenced by the national titles.
07-10-2019 11:32 AM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 09:08 AM)panite Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 08:42 AM)billyjack Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 08:05 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Not to disparage Louv, I loved how they built their program up, despite their recruiting methods.
Not taking Conn, ACC could have put stranglehold on NYC moved their tourn into the garden.
Now they still got the same promblem, fix FB

I think the ACC adding UConn in 2013 would have given them the best chance of getting the Garden, because the Big East hadn't re-established itself after the split. To me, the ACC misread the northeast landscape in 2013 and figured Syracuse, BC, and Pitt could get MSG. Back then, my biggest worry was a UConn hoops-only invite to the ACC, especially after their 2014 championship.

Here in 2019, i think that ACC-Garden threat is gone, even if they added UConn today. The Big East re-established itself, we got 2 national championships, couple number #1 seeds, great recruiting, and our Xavier-Butler-Creighton adds have been outstanding.

Now, like i wrote in post #89, the ACC may still decide to add UConn for hoops (misreading the situation again), but they waited too long to be able to get the Garden.

I don't think the BE was ever in jeopardy of totally losing the Garden. Share it maybe but lose it no. The Tobacco Triangle likes to have the Championship in Charlotte, NC. It's in their back yard then. The ACC would move the some of the Tournaments to the Garden as they move it around the ACC Territory now, but that State of NC would still get its share of the Tournaments even if UConn had made the cut in 2012 not only to appease the Tobacco Triangle members, but also because Charlotte, NC is in the geographic middle of the ACC and also in the heart of the ACC basketball power base. 07-coffee3

right, good point of not totally losing the Garden, but even partially sharing MSG would've been a huge negative and morale crusher for the BE. Plus it might've turned into a 3 year cycle to include the Big Ten as well.
07-10-2019 11:54 AM
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Post: #109
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 07:02 AM)panite Wrote:  The building blocks for the FB future of UCONN has begun. The day after the formal official announcement (June 27, 2019) of UConn leaving the AAC, the school announces two future opponents in FB. On June 28, 2019 UConn announced that they will play Central Connecticut Sept 3, 2022 and Aug 30, 2025. They will also play POWERHOUSE LAYFAYETTE COLLEGE of the PATRIOT LEAGUE Sept 9, 2023 and Sept 5, 2026. 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana 02-13-banana 03-nutkick 03-nutkick 03-nutkick 03-shhhh 03-shhhh 03-shhhh COGS COGS COGS COGS 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 04-cheers

FBS Schedules still lists TBD for a bunch of American games in future years https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/uconn/ I figured there would have been some announcements by now about future games.....

Guessing the silence means they are trying to negociate a deal with the MAC or C-USA to hop over football only, or they can't announce anything until the 27 month notice/buyout is finalized.

Anyone hearing anything about future games? I have read some suggest playing UMass 2x per year but i'm not a big fan of that and hope we would only do it as a courtesy if absolutely necessary as it was back in 1999 when BU dropped it's football team at the last minute.
07-10-2019 02:10 PM
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Post: #110
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 01:56 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I haven't read the thread in full yet but UConn can leverage basketball series (both sides) into games for football. They may not thrive but they can survive.

They really can't though. They'll be playing 20 Big East games, an exempt tournament, a Gavitt Games event, a Big 12 challenge game, probably at least one netural-site game, at least one high-profile home/home series and tomato cans at home. They're not about to sacrifice one of them to send the basketball team to a CUSA or MAC gym so their butt-ass football can play a who-the-hell-cares game at home in October.
07-10-2019 03:13 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 03:13 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 01:56 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I haven't read the thread in full yet but UConn can leverage basketball series (both sides) into games for football. They may not thrive but they can survive.

They really can't though. They'll be playing 20 Big East games, an exempt tournament, a Gavitt Games event, a Big 12 challenge game, probably at least one netural-site game, at least one high-profile home/home series and tomato cans at home. They're not about to sacrifice one of them to send the basketball team to a CUSA or MAC gym so their butt-ass football can play a who-the-hell-cares game at home in October.

I know, it's spectacular.
07-10-2019 03:23 PM
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panite Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 11:54 AM)billyjack Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 09:08 AM)panite Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 08:42 AM)billyjack Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 08:05 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Not to disparage Louv, I loved how they built their program up, despite their recruiting methods.
Not taking Conn, ACC could have put stranglehold on NYC moved their tourn into the garden.
Now they still got the same promblem, fix FB

I think the ACC adding UConn in 2013 would have given them the best chance of getting the Garden, because the Big East hadn't re-established itself after the split. To me, the ACC misread the northeast landscape in 2013 and figured Syracuse, BC, and Pitt could get MSG. Back then, my biggest worry was a UConn hoops-only invite to the ACC, especially after their 2014 championship.

Here in 2019, i think that ACC-Garden threat is gone, even if they added UConn today. The Big East re-established itself, we got 2 national championships, couple number #1 seeds, great recruiting, and our Xavier-Butler-Creighton adds have been outstanding.

Now, like i wrote in post #89, the ACC may still decide to add UConn for hoops (misreading the situation again), but they waited too long to be able to get the Garden.

I don't think the BE was ever in jeopardy of totally losing the Garden. Share it maybe but lose it no. The Tobacco Triangle likes to have the Championship in Charlotte, NC. It's in their back yard then. The ACC would move the some of the Tournaments to the Garden as they move it around the ACC Territory now, but that State of NC would still get its share of the Tournaments even if UConn had made the cut in 2012 not only to appease the Tobacco Triangle members, but also because Charlotte, NC is in the geographic middle of the ACC and also in the heart of the ACC basketball power base. 07-coffee3

right, good point of not totally losing the Garden, but even partially sharing MSG would've been a huge negative and morale crusher for the BE. Plus it might've turned into a 3 year cycle to include the Big Ten as well.

Yes I forgot to mention the B-10 too. They would move in and out of the MSG picture too but most of the time their tournament would be in Chicago too. BE got a plus when they secured their new contract. 07-coffee3
07-10-2019 03:35 PM
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panite Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 03:13 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 01:56 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I haven't read the thread in full yet but UConn can leverage basketball series (both sides) into games for football. They may not thrive but they can survive.

They really can't though. They'll be playing 20 Big East games, an exempt tournament, a Gavitt Games event, a Big 12 challenge game, probably at least one netural-site game, at least one high-profile home/home series and tomato cans at home. They're not about to sacrifice one of them to send the basketball team to a CUSA or MAC gym so their butt-ass football can play a who-the-hell-cares game at home in October.

They don't have to waste a BB game on the MAC, CUSA, or the Sun Belt to get October FB games. They can probably fill most of October starting in 2021 with G5 teams and save the Independents for November along with an FCS game in November. There will also be some ACC, B-10, B-12, and SEC teams looking for a buy game the 3rd week of November prior to their final rivalry games to end the season. If UConn can get one of those games every year it helps to bump the independent and FCS scheduling back into the last week of October too. Finally if UConn comes up a game short in October they can schedule a second FCS buy game for October. Its not like they will be playing for the National Championship or a major bowl at season end as an independent anyway. 07-coffee3
07-10-2019 03:48 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 03:48 PM)panite Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 03:13 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  [quote='_C2_' pid='16187548' dateline='1562741815']
I haven't read the thread in full yet but UConn can leverage basketball series (both sides) into games for football. They may not thrive but they can survive.

They really can't though. They'll be playing 20 Big East games, an exempt tournament, a Gavitt Games event, a Big 12 challenge game, probably at least one netural-site game, at least one high-profile home/home series and tomato cans at home. They're not about to sacrifice one of them to send the basketball team to a CUSA or MAC gym so their butt-ass football can play a who-the-hell-cares game at home in October.

They don't have to waste a BB game on the MAC, CUSA, or the Sun Belt to get October FB games. They can probably fill most of October starting in 2021 with G5 teams and save the Independents for November along with an FCS game in November. There will also be some ACC, B-10, B-12, and SEC teams looking for a buy game the 3rd week of November prior to their final rivalry games to end the season.

Bear in mind that the two FB-only deal with Temple/UMass (which never actually happened) was appealing to the BBall schools because it guaranteed one home game from one of the pair to every MAC school in a three year cycle. But a single MAC hosted game every year means some schools will be waiting 10, 11, 12 years for the visit, which reduces the appeal substantially.

With the appeal of that approach watered down by the wait, if they got creative, they might be able to find an alternative which fits their needs better, if they were looking for a two game scheduling agreement with the MAC ... along the lines of the 3 game scheduling agreement Army once had ... where they get the agreement (presumably with some cap on how frequently with a specific school), the MAC agrees to work it into their regular season schedule.

Say, an agreement to schedule H/H series with teams other than MBB (typically WBB, but one or more of the hockey schools might prefer hockey), and host an early season exhibition, MAC reigning champion and regular season champion two games against UConn and an invitee in Connecticut. It's still two home games for UConn.
07-10-2019 06:27 PM
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UCbball21 Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
UConn football wasn't fine in the AAC, how anyone thinks that it will be fine as an independent is beyond me. UConn will likely drop down to FCS or drop football entirely in the next decade along with many other G5/independent schools.
07-11-2019 12:56 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-10-2019 06:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 03:48 PM)panite Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 03:13 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  [quote='_C2_' pid='16187548' dateline='1562741815']
I haven't read the thread in full yet but UConn can leverage basketball series (both sides) into games for football. They may not thrive but they can survive.

They really can't though. They'll be playing 20 Big East games, an exempt tournament, a Gavitt Games event, a Big 12 challenge game, probably at least one netural-site game, at least one high-profile home/home series and tomato cans at home. They're not about to sacrifice one of them to send the basketball team to a CUSA or MAC gym so their butt-ass football can play a who-the-hell-cares game at home in October.

They don't have to waste a BB game on the MAC, CUSA, or the Sun Belt to get October FB games. They can probably fill most of October starting in 2021 with G5 teams and save the Independents for November along with an FCS game in November. There will also be some ACC, B-10, B-12, and SEC teams looking for a buy game the 3rd week of November prior to their final rivalry games to end the season.

Bear in mind that the two FB-only deal with Temple/UMass (which never actually happened) was appealing to the BBall schools because it guaranteed one home game from one of the pair to every MAC school in a three year cycle. But a single MAC hosted game every year means some schools will be waiting 10, 11, 12 years for the visit, which reduces the appeal substantially.

With the appeal of that approach watered down by the wait, if they got creative, they might be able to find an alternative which fits their needs better, if they were looking for a two game scheduling agreement with the MAC ... along the lines of the 3 game scheduling agreement Army once had ... where they get the agreement (presumably with some cap on how frequently with a specific school), the MAC agrees to work it into their regular season schedule.

Say, an agreement to schedule H/H series with teams other than MBB (typically WBB, but one or more of the hockey schools might prefer hockey), and host an early season exhibition, MAC reigning champion and regular season champion two games against UConn and an invitee in Connecticut. It's still two home games for UConn.

Most of the MAC doesn't need games against UMass or UConn. They need to win more of the games they're playing now.
07-11-2019 04:26 PM
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Post: #117
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-11-2019 12:56 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  UConn football wasn't fine in the AAC, how anyone thinks that it will be fine as an independent is beyond me. UConn will likely drop down to FCS or drop football entirely in the next decade along with many other G5/independent schools.

Their schedule is going to look a lot like UMass. Once September ends everyone else is playing conference games. SEC has that strange quick where everyone has a body bag game in late November.
07-11-2019 05:15 PM
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Post: #118
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
The exit letter is here:

[Image: D_I8fZgXkAE1TW5.jpg]

Notice July 1st, 2022. That is three years out, as required by AAC exit rules, which avoids penalty fees. But both sides want an exit July 1st, 2020, except UConn wants an extra year or even two more for Football only, other sports moving to the Big East.

The two sides are going to have to negotiate the actual terms. Neither wants it to end up in court, but neither wants to give the other more than they need to.

2020 UConn football and even 2021 would be in terrible shape if they just cut loose after this coming year. So it'll be interesting to see what compromise on money and schedule the two sides agree to.
07-11-2019 05:56 PM
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Post: #119
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
What a joke. I know UConn wants to negotiate, but what does the AAC get out of it. It won't change the problem with the ESPiN's contract situation as far as the AAC inventory is concerned. Pay up and beat it.
07-11-2019 10:50 PM
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Post: #120
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-11-2019 12:56 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  UConn football wasn't fine in the AAC, how anyone thinks that it will be fine as an independent is beyond me. UConn will likely drop down to FCS or drop football entirely in the next decade along with many other G5/independent schools.

This ^ ^ ^^ ^ . 04-cheers
07-12-2019 08:11 AM
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