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Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(06-28-2019 02:50 PM)33laszlo99 Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I can't see it. Tell me the scenario that you envision which ends with UConn in a P5 conference.

Unless Hoops becomes more valued in the TV contracts...UConn will never join a P5 league. IMHO

They do not bring enough TV $$$. Pretty Soon you will need to be able to bring in $40M to just break-even for an addition to the ACC.
07-01-2019 10:19 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.
07-01-2019 11:36 PM
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RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

there is really nothing at all that supports your argument and there is in fact a great deal that proves it is not true

1. at the formation of the AAC UConn was a much stronger and much more talked about candidate to be a member of several P5 conferences.....that has only gotten markedly worse throughout their time in the AAC

2. BYU is probably the most talked about expansion candidate out there and they are not a part of a conference and everything that everyone has said about their ability to schedule has not remotely come true

BYU has a clearly better schedule than they would have in the MWC or the AAC and that is playing out in the far west where there are a lot fewer programs in general and they are a lot further apart and where BYU is the only western (hell not eastern time zone) independent

3. some teams that are doing well right now in the AAC particularly in football were really not even final contenders when the Big 12 looked at teams

4. there is no common goal in the AAC other than to GTFO ASAP.....that is really not great for building a program that is great for a few teams that are winning in the last two years to pretend like they suddenly control what happens in the conference

5. UConn basketball and their finances were suffering in the AAC and that does not help build a program

6. Rutgers and Maryland show that there is much more to expansion than just wins on the football field (or on any field or court in he case of Rutgers)

7. with merchandise sales UConn was just below Maryland (43) (UConn 44) and way above Rutgers (56) and BYU was (49) and with licensing deals UConn (15 with their newly reported deal) is just above Maryland (16) and and Rutgers is dead last (65)

there are no numbers for the BYU/Nike deal signed in March, but all sides seem very happy with it and BYU has been with Nike a long time and gets some special considerations from them for custom merchandise....no reason to think UConn cannot get the same....and sure plenty of programs in a conference could possibly get that, but not being in a conference does not seem to make that harder at all

8. many of the AAC/CUSA 2.75 fan girls are already talking about how crappy Army was in CUSA 2.0 and how bad they would be in 2.75 and even more so talking about how Navy is falling off a cliff in 2.75 (of course many of them also talked about hos "it's OvEr" for Boise while their own programs have had crappier seasons recently than Boise, but that just shows you what a crappy overall conference the AAC is......it is filled with teams pushing poor longer term decisions because they think it helps their team GTFO sooner while they also talk about who they would kick out of the conference if the could and who is dragging the conference down (often times forgetting their own program has a history of crapping the bed to some of those programs dragging the conference down)


UConn looked out for their own best interest it may work out poorly for them, maybe just OK or it may work out better than most expect, but things were just going badly for them in the AAC and there is nothing that the AAC offers them that they cannot get on their own other than a long term crappy media deal and a lot of instability and dissimilar goals for the conference
07-02-2019 12:44 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-02-2019 12:44 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

there is really nothing at all that supports your argument and there is in fact a great deal that proves it is not true

1. at the formation of the AAC UConn was a much stronger and much more talked about candidate to be a member of several P5 conferences.....that has only gotten markedly worse throughout their time in the AAC

That is true, but that is not an argument that UConn would do better than that as an independent. That's just an observation that they have sucked since the Big East morphed into the AAC. Post Hoc ergo Propter Hoc remains a logical fallacy, and the cause of UConn sucking might be something which Independence amplifies rather than corrects.

Quote: 2. BYU is probably the most talked about expansion candidate out there and they are not a part of a conference and everything that everyone has said about their ability to schedule has not remotely come true

BYU has a clearly better schedule than they would have in the MWC or the AAC and that is playing out in the far west where there are a lot fewer programs in general and they are a lot further apart and where BYU is the only western (hell not eastern time zone) independent

Yes, but (1) UConn is not BYU and UConn's TV contract won't hold the same sway as BYU's TV contract and (2) BYU's ability to leverage its special status to make independence viable is no evidence that Independence has benefited BYU football.

Quote: 3. some teams that are doing well right now in the AAC particularly in football were really not even final contenders when the Big 12 looked at teams

That sounds like a way to take the fact that the bulk of serious contenders when the Big 12 looked at teams were from the AAC and make it into a negative ... "but not ALL of them!".

Quote: 4. there is no common goal in the AAC other than to GTFO ASAP.....that is really not great for building a program that is great for a few teams that are winning in the last two years to pretend like they suddenly control what happens in the conference
A theory is not evidence.

Quote: 5. UConn basketball and their finances were suffering in the AAC and that does not help build a program

Which is compatible with an argument that UConn is moving to the Big East as part of a process to restore it's BBall program.

Quote: 6. Rutgers and Maryland show that there is much more to expansion than just wins on the football field (or on any field or court in he case of Rutgers)

7. with merchandise sales UConn was just below Maryland (43) (UConn 44) and way above Rutgers (56) and BYU was (49) and with licensing deals UConn (15 with their newly reported deal) is just above Maryland (16) and and Rutgers is dead last (65)

On your "everything that happened after the Big East morphed into the AAC is the result of being in the AAC" logic, this is a benefit of being in the AAC. You seem to be able to turn that logic off whenever it does not reach the conclusion you wish to reach with it.

Quote: there are no numbers for the BYU/Nike deal signed in March, but all sides seem very happy with it and BYU has been with Nike a long time and gets some special considerations from them for custom merchandise....no reason to think UConn cannot get the same....and sure plenty of programs in a conference could possibly get that, but not being in a conference does not seem to make that harder at all

No reason to think UConn cannot get the same, and no reason to think it can.

Quote: 8. many of the AAC/CUSA 2.75 fan girls are already talking about how crappy Army was in CUSA 2.0 and how bad they would be in 2.75 and even more so talking about how Navy is falling off a cliff in 2.75 (of course many of them also talked about hos "it's OvEr" for Boise while their own programs have had crappier seasons recently than Boise, but that just shows you ...

... nothing, it shows you nothing, for good or for ill. What a handful of supporters say implies zero about anything.

Quote: UConn looked out for their own best interest it may work out poorly for them, maybe just OK or it may work out better than most expect, but things were just going badly for them in the AAC and there is nothing that the AAC offers them that they cannot get on their own other than a long term crappy media deal and a lot of instability and dissimilar goals for the conference

I believe this is true, since there is no combination of circumstances where it is realistic for UConn to be chasing a P5 spot, so it is definitely true that being in the Big East and focusing on their BBall offers them more than the AAC can offer to them.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 04:56 PM by BruceMcF.)
07-02-2019 05:20 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
NMSU just announced their 2020 schedule. No UConn. Playing at Hawaii. I guess they could fit a 13th vs UConn, but would need to be in Las Cruces. Playing at UConn would give them 8 road games and 5 home games.
07-05-2019 02:38 PM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.
07-05-2019 03:31 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

The AAC had nothing to do with UConn's failures. Their failures rest solely on their coaching hires.
07-05-2019 04:20 PM
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Post: #68
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

Other schools appear to be thriving in the AAC. If UConn wasn't able to, then the blame rests squarely on the folks in Storrs and maybe in the state capitol. Chronic budget woes and poor coaching choices in football and basketball, one after another, would have an adverse effect on any program. Geography played a role too, at least as regards football. I wish UConn all the best in its new conference.
07-05-2019 04:47 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

This makes UConn into a perfectly passive recipient of either help or harm from whichever conference it plays football in.

(1) First, no, it was not universally considered to be the top candidate in 2014, the year that Louisville entered, since you will be able to find on this very board arguments in which UConn is claimed to be the top candidate and then someone else disputes that claim. "Widely", perhaps. "Universally", no. Indeed, when Louisville was invited by the ACC, that was pointed to by some commentators as evidence that UConn's appeal to the P5 was being overhyped by other commentators. After all, who except the Big Ten and the ACC -- and since the notion of the Big Ten would invite UConn is rather the silly, that narrows it down to the ACC -- and when the ACC had needed a school, their FB schools insisted that it not be UConn if there was a stronger FB school available. So if UConn wanted to be the "next school to turn to", it needed more FB success.

(2) And being the best opportunity doesn't make anything automatic. The school that is faced with the opportunity also has to not blow it. That fact that UConn blew its chance to improve it's FB in the AAC isn't evidence that it would have done better as an Independent over the same period.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 05:18 PM by BruceMcF.)
07-05-2019 05:07 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

You can word it any way you want to, the bottom line however uconn football is clearly just plain AWFUL and dragged the AAC down.

I wish uconn the best in whatever direction they have decided on... As a Houston fan living in a football State, I am extremely excited we will soon no longer have them in our future schedules anymore.

FOOTBALL IS KING... 04-rock
07-05-2019 05:38 PM
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RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 04:47 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

Other schools appear to be thriving in the AAC. If UConn wasn't able to, then the blame rests squarely on the folks in Storrs and maybe in the state capitol. Chronic budget woes and poor coaching choices in football and basketball, one after another, would have an adverse effect on any program. Geography played a role too, at least as regards football. I wish UConn all the best in its new conference.

that is odd considering in the thread about the Army coach saying they were not interested in joining the AAC there are a number of AAC fan girls saying that Army is just scared and they would suffer the same fate of starting to lose a lot more than they win just like Navy has done in the AAC

including replies that shoe the season records of Navy over the last few seasons

and I don't think that ECU is thriving in the AAC

Tulsa had a much better run in their last 10 seasons in the CUSA vs their first 5 in the AAC

after 20 seasons with only one winning season (6-5 in 1997) and one tie season (6-6 in 2006) SMU had 3 winning seasons and one tie season (7-7) in their final 4 years in CUSA and since joining the AAC they have had one winning season 7-6) in six years

that does not seem like thriving

so with UConn, Navy, ECU, Tulsa, and SMU that is 5 out of 12 programs that are not thriving in the AAC after a number of years

Tulane was bad in CUSA and they are still bad in the AAC....sure they had a pretty good year last year (by Tulane standards), but of course they were also 7-6 in their last year on CUSA as well before joining the AAC and rolling off 4 straight losing seasons before 7-6 last year

relative to their final few years in the Big East Cincy is hardly thriving in the AAC

8 seasons in the BE they had one losing season and they were ranked 4 times and as high as #8 in the final AP poll

in the AAC in 6 seasons they have had two losing seasons and they have been ranked one time #24 and they have had one double digit win season so far vs 5 in the BE....but they do have P6 helmet stickers and they can make excuses about the polls not giving the respect to the AAC that they did to the BE (not sure what the excuse is for the wins and losses, but I am sure there is one)

and while Memphis is doing much better on football in the AAC (so there is one out of 7 listed so far) their basketball has fallen off the map in the AAC.....so perhaps UConn had some concerns about that???

Temple with the same coach made the NCAAs 6 out of seven seasons in the A10....they have made it one time in 6 seasons in the AAC...and their football is doing only slightly better in the AAC vs in the MAC/BE

so not really sold on the "thriving' aspect of programs in the AAC relative to in other conferences and even a couple that were listed saw a pretty meaningful decline in the sport they were well known for prior to the AAC even if football has done better in the AAC
07-05-2019 05:42 PM
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RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-02-2019 12:44 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

there is really nothing at all that supports your argument and there is in fact a great deal that proves it is not true

1. at the formation of the AAC UConn was a much stronger and much more talked about candidate to be a member of several P5 conferences.....that has only gotten markedly worse throughout their time in the AAC

2. BYU is probably the most talked about expansion candidate out there and they are not a part of a conference and everything that everyone has said about their ability to schedule has not remotely come true

BYU has a clearly better schedule than they would have in the MWC or the AAC and that is playing out in the far west where there are a lot fewer programs in general and they are a lot further apart and where BYU is the only western (hell not eastern time zone) independent

3. some teams that are doing well right now in the AAC particularly in football were really not even final contenders when the Big 12 looked at teams

4. there is no common goal in the AAC other than to GTFO ASAP.....that is really not great for building a program that is great for a few teams that are winning in the last two years to pretend like they suddenly control what happens in the conference

5. UConn basketball and their finances were suffering in the AAC and that does not help build a program

6. Rutgers and Maryland show that there is much more to expansion than just wins on the football field (or on any field or court in he case of Rutgers)

7. with merchandise sales UConn was just below Maryland (43) (UConn 44) and way above Rutgers (56) and BYU was (49) and with licensing deals UConn (15 with their newly reported deal) is just above Maryland (16) and and Rutgers is dead last (65)

there are no numbers for the BYU/Nike deal signed in March, but all sides seem very happy with it and BYU has been with Nike a long time and gets some special considerations from them for custom merchandise....no reason to think UConn cannot get the same....and sure plenty of programs in a conference could possibly get that, but not being in a conference does not seem to make that harder at all

8. many of the AAC/CUSA 2.75 fan girls are already talking about how crappy Army was in CUSA 2.0 and how bad they would be in 2.75 and even more so talking about how Navy is falling off a cliff in 2.75 (of course many of them also talked about hos "it's OvEr" for Boise while their own programs have had crappier seasons recently than Boise, but that just shows you what a crappy overall conference the AAC is......it is filled with teams pushing poor longer term decisions because they think it helps their team GTFO sooner while they also talk about who they would kick out of the conference if the could and who is dragging the conference down (often times forgetting their own program has a history of crapping the bed to some of those programs dragging the conference down)


UConn looked out for their own best interest it may work out poorly for them, maybe just OK or it may work out better than most expect, but things were just going badly for them in the AAC and there is nothing that the AAC offers them that they cannot get on their own other than a long term crappy media deal and a lot of instability and dissimilar goals for the conference

So many reasons that UConn coulda, shoulda, woulda... and really still might, if only...

Put yourselves in the shoes of the UConn trustees and look at the recent past, the current situation and the likely future. How might you instruct the university president to proceed? ( -$ 42 million per year)
07-05-2019 05:49 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #73
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 05:07 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

This makes UConn into a perfectly passive recipient of either help or harm from whichever conference it plays football in.

(1) First, no, it was not universally considered to be the top candidate in 2014, the year that Louisville entered, since you will be able to find on this very board arguments in which UConn is claimed to be the top candidate and then someone else disputes that claim. "Widely", perhaps. "Universally", no. Indeed, when Louisville was invited by the ACC, that was pointed to by some commentators as evidence that UConn's appeal to the P5 was being overhyped by other commentators. After all, who except the Big Ten and the ACC -- and since the notion of the Big Ten would invite UConn is rather the silly, that narrows it down to the ACC -- and when the ACC had needed a school, their FB schools insisted that it not be UConn if there was a stronger FB school available. So if UConn wanted to be the "next school to turn to", it needed more FB success.

(2) And being the best opportunity doesn't make anything automatic. The school that is faced with the opportunity also has to not blow it. That fact that UConn blew its chance to improve it's FB in the AAC isn't evidence that it would have done better as an Independent over the same period.

There's simply zero doubt that (a) UConn's apparent promotability to the P5 has declined, and (b) their football, both financially and in results, has declined, as a member of the AAC.

Now you can engage in mental gymnastics parsing the whys and wherefores if you want, but the obvious conclusion to draw is that the AAC has been bad for UConn and thus it makes sense for UConn to seek greener pastures. E.g., it is amusing to see folks talk about things like coaching decisions, as if that is independent of the conference when it's not: The conference a team is in definitely impacts on the interest that quality coaches have in a school's job.

UConn simply has not thrived in the AAC. 07-coffee3
07-05-2019 05:54 PM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 05:49 PM)33laszlo99 Wrote:  
(07-02-2019 12:44 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

there is really nothing at all that supports your argument and there is in fact a great deal that proves it is not true

1. at the formation of the AAC UConn was a much stronger and much more talked about candidate to be a member of several P5 conferences.....that has only gotten markedly worse throughout their time in the AAC

2. BYU is probably the most talked about expansion candidate out there and they are not a part of a conference and everything that everyone has said about their ability to schedule has not remotely come true

BYU has a clearly better schedule than they would have in the MWC or the AAC and that is playing out in the far west where there are a lot fewer programs in general and they are a lot further apart and where BYU is the only western (hell not eastern time zone) independent

3. some teams that are doing well right now in the AAC particularly in football were really not even final contenders when the Big 12 looked at teams

4. there is no common goal in the AAC other than to GTFO ASAP.....that is really not great for building a program that is great for a few teams that are winning in the last two years to pretend like they suddenly control what happens in the conference

5. UConn basketball and their finances were suffering in the AAC and that does not help build a program

6. Rutgers and Maryland show that there is much more to expansion than just wins on the football field (or on any field or court in he case of Rutgers)

7. with merchandise sales UConn was just below Maryland (43) (UConn 44) and way above Rutgers (56) and BYU was (49) and with licensing deals UConn (15 with their newly reported deal) is just above Maryland (16) and and Rutgers is dead last (65)

there are no numbers for the BYU/Nike deal signed in March, but all sides seem very happy with it and BYU has been with Nike a long time and gets some special considerations from them for custom merchandise....no reason to think UConn cannot get the same....and sure plenty of programs in a conference could possibly get that, but not being in a conference does not seem to make that harder at all

8. many of the AAC/CUSA 2.75 fan girls are already talking about how crappy Army was in CUSA 2.0 and how bad they would be in 2.75 and even more so talking about how Navy is falling off a cliff in 2.75 (of course many of them also talked about hos "it's OvEr" for Boise while their own programs have had crappier seasons recently than Boise, but that just shows you what a crappy overall conference the AAC is......it is filled with teams pushing poor longer term decisions because they think it helps their team GTFO sooner while they also talk about who they would kick out of the conference if the could and who is dragging the conference down (often times forgetting their own program has a history of crapping the bed to some of those programs dragging the conference down)


UConn looked out for their own best interest it may work out poorly for them, maybe just OK or it may work out better than most expect, but things were just going badly for them in the AAC and there is nothing that the AAC offers them that they cannot get on their own other than a long term crappy media deal and a lot of instability and dissimilar goals for the conference

So many reasons that UConn coulda, shoulda, woulda... and really still might, if only...

Put yourselves in the shoes of the UConn trustees and look at the recent past, the current situation and the likely future. How might you instruct the university president to proceed? ( -$ 42 million per year)

I would instruct them to not get caught up in a conference filled with programs that are either willing to just take what they get and be dictated to or programs that have a very short term view because they believe (for most falsely) that they will not be in that conference in a few years

sitting around pretending that realignment is eminent or will happen when predicted is not a smart thing to do

sitting around thinking that you can try and structure your CONFERENCE agreements to have your program right at the best position to move up based on when you believe that will happen can become a very bad plan if the end result of that movement not happening when you think it will happen is your program being caught off guard and suddenly in a bad position for itself or locked into a bad position for the conference as a whole

there are no guarantees that UConn will be better off independent in football or that basketball will improve in the BE

but it is clear that neither were advancing in the AAC and it is pretty clear that the other teams in the AAC were really not thinking long term with their new deal there were those just taking what came their way and those trying to hit a mark when they believe they will be exiting and leaving a bad contract behind

very doubtful it works well in the long term for many if not all of those that think they will be leaving for something better
07-05-2019 06:20 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 05:07 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

This makes UConn into a perfectly passive recipient of either help or harm from whichever conference it plays football in.

(1) First, no, it was not universally considered to be the top candidate in 2014, the year that Louisville entered, since you will be able to find on this very board arguments in which UConn is claimed to be the top candidate and then someone else disputes that claim. "Widely", perhaps. "Universally", no. Indeed, when Louisville was invited by the ACC, that was pointed to by some commentators as evidence that UConn's appeal to the P5 was being overhyped by other commentators. After all, who except the Big Ten and the ACC -- and since the notion of the Big Ten would invite UConn is rather the silly, that narrows it down to the ACC -- and when the ACC had needed a school, their FB schools insisted that it not be UConn if there was a stronger FB school available. So if UConn wanted to be the "next school to turn to", it needed more FB success.

(2) And being the best opportunity doesn't make anything automatic. The school that is faced with the opportunity also has to not blow it. That fact that UConn blew its chance to improve it's FB in the AAC isn't evidence that it would have done better as an Independent over the same period.

Im going to paraphrase from memory as best I can-----In a recent interview Swoford said he didnt really know why UConn didnt get the nod, but then he considered it a moment and then said he thought it was possible that the lack of any significant football history (UConn is a relatively recent arrival to FBS) at this level may have been a factor. Then, he went on to say he really couldn't think of any other reason why UConn was overlooked. I believe the piece Im remembering where Swoford was quoted is from the "The Athletic" (the article was out shortly after the UConn news broke at the end of June).
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 06:36 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-05-2019 06:30 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 05:07 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

This makes UConn into a perfectly passive recipient of either help or harm from whichever conference it plays football in.

(1) First, no, it was not universally considered to be the top candidate in 2014, the year that Louisville entered, since you will be able to find on this very board arguments in which UConn is claimed to be the top candidate and then someone else disputes that claim. "Widely", perhaps. "Universally", no. Indeed, when Louisville was invited by the ACC, that was pointed to by some commentators as evidence that UConn's appeal to the P5 was being overhyped by other commentators. After all, who except the Big Ten and the ACC -- and since the notion of the Big Ten would invite UConn is rather the silly, that narrows it down to the ACC -- and when the ACC had needed a school, their FB schools insisted that it not be UConn if there was a stronger FB school available. So if UConn wanted to be the "next school to turn to", it needed more FB success.

UConn was the favorite to replace Maryland not Louisville.

Both Louisville and Cincinnati made a last minute push to try and get into the ACC. In Louisville's case it worked.
07-05-2019 06:55 PM
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33laszlo99 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 06:20 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 05:49 PM)33laszlo99 Wrote:  
(07-02-2019 12:44 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

there is really nothing at all that supports your argument and there is in fact a great deal that proves it is not true

1. at the formation of the AAC UConn was a much stronger and much more talked about candidate to be a member of several P5 conferences.....that has only gotten markedly worse throughout their time in the AAC

2. BYU is probably the most talked about expansion candidate out there and they are not a part of a conference and everything that everyone has said about their ability to schedule has not remotely come true

BYU has a clearly better schedule than they would have in the MWC or the AAC and that is playing out in the far west where there are a lot fewer programs in general and they are a lot further apart and where BYU is the only western (hell not eastern time zone) independent

3. some teams that are doing well right now in the AAC particularly in football were really not even final contenders when the Big 12 looked at teams

4. there is no common goal in the AAC other than to GTFO ASAP.....that is really not great for building a program that is great for a few teams that are winning in the last two years to pretend like they suddenly control what happens in the conference

5. UConn basketball and their finances were suffering in the AAC and that does not help build a program

6. Rutgers and Maryland show that there is much more to expansion than just wins on the football field (or on any field or court in he case of Rutgers)

7. with merchandise sales UConn was just below Maryland (43) (UConn 44) and way above Rutgers (56) and BYU was (49) and with licensing deals UConn (15 with their newly reported deal) is just above Maryland (16) and and Rutgers is dead last (65)

there are no numbers for the BYU/Nike deal signed in March, but all sides seem very happy with it and BYU has been with Nike a long time and gets some special considerations from them for custom merchandise....no reason to think UConn cannot get the same....and sure plenty of programs in a conference could possibly get that, but not being in a conference does not seem to make that harder at all

8. many of the AAC/CUSA 2.75 fan girls are already talking about how crappy Army was in CUSA 2.0 and how bad they would be in 2.75 and even more so talking about how Navy is falling off a cliff in 2.75 (of course many of them also talked about hos "it's OvEr" for Boise while their own programs have had crappier seasons recently than Boise, but that just shows you what a crappy overall conference the AAC is......it is filled with teams pushing poor longer term decisions because they think it helps their team GTFO sooner while they also talk about who they would kick out of the conference if the could and who is dragging the conference down (often times forgetting their own program has a history of crapping the bed to some of those programs dragging the conference down)


UConn looked out for their own best interest it may work out poorly for them, maybe just OK or it may work out better than most expect, but things were just going badly for them in the AAC and there is nothing that the AAC offers them that they cannot get on their own other than a long term crappy media deal and a lot of instability and dissimilar goals for the conference

So many reasons that UConn coulda, shoulda, woulda... and really still might, if only...

Put yourselves in the shoes of the UConn trustees and look at the recent past, the current situation and the likely future. How might you instruct the university president to proceed? ( -$ 42 million per year)

I would instruct them to not get caught up in a conference filled with programs that are either willing to just take what they get and be dictated to or programs that have a very short term view because they believe (for most falsely) that they will not be in that conference in a few years

sitting around pretending that realignment is eminent or will happen when predicted is not a smart thing to do

sitting around thinking that you can try and structure your CONFERENCE agreements to have your program right at the best position to move up based on when you believe that will happen can become a very bad plan if the end result of that movement not happening when you think it will happen is your program being caught off guard and suddenly in a bad position for itself or locked into a bad position for the conference as a whole

there are no guarantees that UConn will be better off independent in football or that basketball will improve in the BE

but it is clear that neither were advancing in the AAC and it is pretty clear that the other teams in the AAC were really not thinking long term with their new deal there were those just taking what came their way and those trying to hit a mark when they believe they will be exiting and leaving a bad contract behind

very doubtful it works well in the long term for many if not all of those that think they will be leaving for something better

Just my imagination, butl I'll guess the trustees were much more concise and mentioned a dollar amount.
07-05-2019 06:59 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 06:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  UConn was the favorite to replace Maryland not Louisville.
Link/source?

FWIW... If I had been the King of the ACC, I actually would’ve taken UConn over Louisville. I understand that the ex-BE contingent hated UConn and was blackballing the Huskies. But it still kind of surprises me that they went with UL.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2019 07:06 PM by Native Georgian.)
07-05-2019 07:04 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 07:04 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 06:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  UConn was the favorite to replace Maryland not Louisville.
Link/source?

FWIW... If I had been the King of the ACC, I actually would’ve taken UConn over Louisville. I understand that the ex-BE contingent hated UConn and was blackballing the Huskies. But it still kind of surprises me that they went with UL.



Quote:ACC reportedly considering USF, UConn, Louisville, Cincinnati to replace Maryland after the Maryland Terrapins announced they would leave the ACC for the Big 10, the conference is reportedly in talks with four Big East schools. UConn is reportedly the favorite.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...eplacement
07-05-2019 07:17 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Uconn Football Will Be Fine as an Independent
(07-05-2019 05:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 05:07 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-05-2019 03:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-01-2019 11:36 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-28-2019 01:53 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I think they will be fine as well.

Anyone who thinks UConn has given up on joining a P5 isn't thinking clearly. That's their end-goal.

I think claims of "Independence giving UConn a chance to rebuild their football" need to be attached with an explanation of how that actually works. It seems a bit of an Underpants Gnome plan.

If joining the P5 was UConn's end goal, then UConn would best serve that by showing an ability to compete at a high level in Basketball and an ability to keep their head above water in the toughest football competition outside of the P5.

That's WHY so many people are concluding that this signals UConn giving up on make a serious commitment to working toward a P5 bid ... because being in the AAC appears to be the best place to realize that goal. A school that needs to flee AAC level football competition in order for their football program to succeed does not make for the most promising P5 candidate.

The problem with this line of thought is that UConn has six years of experience in the AAC to disprove it.

For example, when the AAC was formed, UConn was universally regarded as the top candidate to get elevated to P5 status, and they were listed as one of 4 group A schools in the 2012 contract that could trigger ESPN reopening the contract should they leave.

But what did six years of the AAC yield for them? Terrible results on the field, enormous financial deficits, and brand erosion, as reports say that in the TV deal just negotiated, UConn was not among the 5 schools ESPN was concerned might leave.

So .... the AAC has not helped UConn, quite the opposite.

This makes UConn into a perfectly passive recipient of either help or harm from whichever conference it plays football in.

(1) First, no, it was not universally considered to be the top candidate in 2014, the year that Louisville entered, since you will be able to find on this very board arguments in which UConn is claimed to be the top candidate and then someone else disputes that claim. "Widely", perhaps. "Universally", no. Indeed, when Louisville was invited by the ACC, that was pointed to by some commentators as evidence that UConn's appeal to the P5 was being overhyped by other commentators. After all, who except the Big Ten and the ACC -- and since the notion of the Big Ten would invite UConn is rather the silly, that narrows it down to the ACC -- and when the ACC had needed a school, their FB schools insisted that it not be UConn if there was a stronger FB school available. So if UConn wanted to be the "next school to turn to", it needed more FB success.

(2) And being the best opportunity doesn't make anything automatic. The school that is faced with the opportunity also has to not blow it. That fact that UConn blew its chance to improve it's FB in the AAC isn't evidence that it would have done better as an Independent over the same period.

There's simply zero doubt that (a) UConn's apparent promotability to the P5 has declined, and (b) their football, both financially and in results, has declined, as a member of the AAC.

Now you can engage in mental gymnastics parsing the whys and wherefores if you want, but the obvious conclusion to draw is that the AAC has been bad for UConn and thus it makes sense for UConn to seek greener pastures. E.g., it is amusing to see folks talk about things like coaching decisions, as if that is independent of the conference when it's not: The conference a team is in definitely impacts on the interest that quality coaches have in a school's job.

UConn simply has not thrived in the AAC. 07-coffee3

You can parse this anyway you wish but you can't get past the fact that UConn just couldn't compete in the AAC. When you are considered prime P5 material but are getting totally embarrassed
by everyone else in the your conference - AND - losing 40+M per year its time to just throw in the towel. And thats what UConn did. Simple as that.
07-05-2019 07:21 PM
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