(05-16-2019 08:40 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  The idea that me being pro choice and anti legislation geared towards women who have been raped being forced into mother hood equals me being abused or having gender dysphoria? Laughable. And pathetic on your part.

Not surprising that you support women welching on their pregnancies

Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Unless Trump gets another appointment before the challenges reach the SCOTUS, all of this is simply going to cement Roe V Wade forever.

Quote:"It's a sad day in Alabama," said Senate Minority Leader Bobby Singleton in the debate leading up to the vote. "You just said to my daughter, you don't matter, you don't matter in the state of Alabama."

But your daughter's daughter (or son) does matter in the state of Alabama.

(05-16-2019 08:40 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 07:35 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 07:10 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(05-15-2019 10:47 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(05-15-2019 10:40 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Pretty sure you can get the next morning pill if the things you say happen. Shouldnt take more than 6 weeks to figure out your uncle joe raped you. Poor argument.

What a disgusting reply. "Hey Little Susie! I know Uncle Joe raped 11 year old you.... and it sucks you just realized you're pregnant (btw, do you even know what that means yet?)... but why didnt you just wobble on down to the local Piggly Woggly and buy that ole Day After pill when ta had the chance ? I guess it's your fault. Sorry... kiddos yours now!"

At least little Susie is here and not sitting in some lab jar as a fetus. I bet she'll take that over the alternative of being an abortion statistic.

For someone who has no say over any of this, since you're a man, you seem heavily invested. Or is it simply more virtue signalling?

Either no male role models or abused growing up, socially rejected through adolescence, strong and overbearing mother who was likely his best friend and gave him nothing but female spin on everything he saw on TV or problem he encountered and came home with... basically only relates to women and men with similar upbringing. Kind of a step above gender dysphoria. I don't know him, just a guess.

Hah! Could not be further from the truth. Moderate to conservative Idaho upbringing by a southern mom and northwestern dad who builds guns and woodworks. Methodists. Latchkey kid with plenty of friends and normal upbringing of sports and AP classes.

The idea that me being pro choice and anti legislation geared towards women who have been raped being forced into mother hood equals me being abused or having gender dysphoria? Laughable. And pathetic on your part.

Who taught you how to welch on bets? They should have taught you that you are only as good as your word. And your word is empty.

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Unless Trump gets another appointment before the challenges reach the SCOTUS, all of this is simply going to cement Roe V Wade forever.

Actually, it isn't.

The Court has expressly refused to state outright that abortion is a right. The operative right is one to privacy.

All of this legislation is being crafted very particularly so that the question the Court will be asked to determine is when does a person become a person.

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Unless Trump gets another appointment before the challenges reach the SCOTUS, all of this is simply going to cement Roe V Wade forever.

I believe that too. I just wish Bama would have let Georgia, Missouri and Ohio take lead on this issue instead of taking the 'hey, hold my beer and watch this' route.

This law will never be enacted as is. Ivey has already commented that it won't be enforced until the courts have weighed in, and the bill's sponsor also said that it probably never will include rape and incest victims. The law was crafted to challenge Roe vs Wade.

(05-16-2019 09:29 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Unless Trump gets another appointment before the challenges reach the SCOTUS, all of this is simply going to cement Roe V Wade forever.

Actually, it isn't.

The Court has expressly refused to state outright that abortion is a right. The operative right is one to privacy.

You are correct that the operative right is one to privacy. But, the SCOTUS has expressly stated (ruled, in fact, since the operative section is not dicta) that the concept of a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy is an act that is unequivocally encompassed within that right.

Quote:This right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action [or in other sections of the Constitution] is broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.

Roe v. Wade

In Casey, the Court was specifically petitioned to overturn Roe.

Quote:It must be stated at the outset and with clarity that Roe's essential holding, the holding we reaffirm[.] First is a recognition of the right of the woman to choose to have an abortion before viability and to obtain it without undue interference from the State.

Casey v. Planned Parenthood

That ruling seems to cut straight across your comment, since the Court in Casey specifically, explicitly, and unequivocally "recogniz[es] ... the right of the woman to choose to have an abortion.

Casey seems to do just what you have stated above and bolded above. Further, the contra opinion to that (that a woman's decision to abort her unborn child is not a constitutionally protected "liberty,") only garnered 4 votes (JUSTICE SCALIA, joined by THE CHIEF JUSTICE, JUSTICE WHITE, and JUSTICE THOMAS).

But assuming that Casey isnt dispositive (I think there were 4 votes for Section 1 there), the ruling of Roe absolutely is. Even in Roe while the explicit right to an abortion is not stated, the act of an abortion is specifically, explicitly, and and unequivocally encompassed within that right.

So even under the worst view (Roe), the act is encompassed. Much like saying 'there is no explicit right to burn the US flag, the operative right is the right to free speech', when the Court has made it abundantly clear that 'the act of burning the flag is encompassed in the First Amendment right of free speech', then the act of burning the flag is a constitutionally protected act, with no ifs, ands, or buts. That is not really a hairsbreadth of difference, to be honest.

(05-16-2019 09:29 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Unless Trump gets another appointment before the challenges reach the SCOTUS, all of this is simply going to cement Roe V Wade forever.

Actually, it isn't.

The Court has expressly refused to state outright that abortion is a right. The operative right is one to privacy.

All of this legislation is being crafted very particularly so that the question the Court will be asked to determine is when does a person become a person.

Also, there are no rights accorded to a fetus anywhere in line of the abortion cases. Viable, or non-viable. I have to agree with you that the question of whether there is a counterweight right that offsets the Roe right to abortion is being placed front and center with this. This is because all of the Roe-type decisions have only considered a 'state interest' counterweight to the rights afforded in Roe and its progeny.

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Kavanaugh has hinted that he's much like Thomas, an originalist.

Past Supreme Court Rulings do not affect future supreme court rulings. Those can be changed over time, providing the new ruling applies the Constitution as is written.

Admittedly I haven't read this entire thread, maybe I should...but did Alabama actually pass a bill that if a woman is forcibly raped then she can't get an abortion? Help me understand this.

(05-16-2019 01:09 PM)TTT Wrote:  Admittedly I haven't read this entire thread, maybe I should...but did Alabama actually pass a bill that if a woman is forcibly raped then she can't get an abortion? Help me understand this.

Best I can understand yep..

So much of this bothers me.. And I'm Pro-Life.

(05-16-2019 11:23 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Kavanaugh has hinted that he's much like Thomas, an originalist.

And both Kavanaugh and Gorsuch have indicated they have a very strong respect for stare decisis.

And each is more of a textualist than an originalist.

Quote:Past Supreme Court Rulings do not affect future supreme court rulings.

They most assuredly do. On more than a number of occasions this term the SCOTUS has explicitly noted that following stare decisis was the main reason for their decision.

The only significant explicit overrule was in California Tax Board V. Nevada about a week ago.

(05-16-2019 01:15 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 01:09 PM)TTT Wrote:  Admittedly I haven't read this entire thread, maybe I should...but did Alabama actually pass a bill that if a woman is forcibly raped then she can't get an abortion? Help me understand this.

Best I can understand yep..

So much of this bothers me.. And I'm Pro-Life.

So why would any sane person (left or right) be okay with a bill that doesn't allow a girl who's been forcibly raped to get an abortion? Something isn't adding up. This bill actually says it plain as day "you cannot get an abortion if you've been forcibly raped"? I have a hard time believing this.

(05-16-2019 01:15 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 01:09 PM)TTT Wrote:  Admittedly I haven't read this entire thread, maybe I should...but did Alabama actually pass a bill that if a woman is forcibly raped then she can't get an abortion? Help me understand this.

Best I can understand yep..

So much of this bothers me.. And I'm Pro-Life.

I think most pro lifers here feel the same way

The drunk justice will vote the way trump tells him to.

(05-16-2019 01:37 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 11:23 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Kavanaugh has hinted that he's much like Thomas, an originalist.

And both Kavanaugh and Gorsuch have indicated they have a very strong respect for stare decisis.

And each is more of a textualist than an originalist.

Quote:Past Supreme Court Rulings do not affect future supreme court rulings.

They most assuredly do. On more than a number of occasions this term the SCOTUS has explicitly noted that following stare decisis was the main reason for their decision.

The only significant explicit overrule was in California Tax Board V. Nevada about a week ago.

And yes, I meant textualist.. but that was specific to Thomas and Kavanaugh. They've both said, they'll look at past Supreme Court cases, but a SC previous judgement should not be a deciding factor if they think the court got the previous case wrong.

A lot of rape have gone unreported because the victims are scared to report the incident. The rapists have damaged the sanity of the victims to a point. When the victim do find out that she is pregnant, she can't get an abortion because she did not report the crime, and the laws makes the victims to be punished because she did not report the crime. Most of these laws are crafted by men who never had some guy raping them to understand how hard it is to tell someone right away. The victims feel ashamed and all that. All these abortion laws in these states run by the Republicans need to ease up on the age or weeks after conceiving a child. 20 weeks or heartbeat laws do not work, and only harm the rape and incest victims more. They are like a punishment to them.

(05-16-2019 11:23 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:13 AM)Claw Wrote:  Brett Kavanaugh will vote to uphold Roe v Wade. He is a legalist. That is the established law.

Kavanaugh has hinted that he's much like Thomas, an originalist.

Past Supreme Court Rulings do not affect future supreme court rulings. Those can be changed over time, providing the new ruling applies the Constitution as is written.

And future SC rulings can disregard previous rulings, see Slavery.

Just because the court has ruled that it's ok to murder innocent babies doesn't mean the court has to perpetuate it.

(05-16-2019 02:31 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  A lot of rape have gone unreported because the victims are scared to report the incident. The rapists have damaged the sanity of the victims to a point. When the victim do find out that she is pregnant, she can't get an abortion because she did not report the crime, and the laws makes the victims to be punished because she did not report the crime. Most of these laws are crafted by men who never had some guy raping them to understand how hard it is to tell someone right away. The victims feel ashamed and all that. All these abortion laws in these states run by the Republicans need to ease up on the age or weeks after conceiving a child. 20 weeks or heartbeat laws do not work, and only harm the rape and incest victims more. They are like a punishment to them.

The current laws seem like a pretty severe punishment for the other 50+ million innocent babies that have been aborted outside of mothers heath, rape or incest cases.

50+ MILLION

That is more than the total of deaths of Word War 1.

This is total insanity and a TERRIBLE crime against humanity.

You have such empathy for the 1% but don't seem to give a flip about the 99%.

(05-15-2019 08:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-15-2019 07:53 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-15-2019 07:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-15-2019 06:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:  https://yellowhammernews.com/state-rep-j...the-press/

Rep. John Rogers (D-Birmingham) admitted that he believes abortion is murder and suggested it is better to “kill” these babies now instead of later after growing up in poverty and turning to crime.

He said, according to Alabama Political Reporter, “Some children are just unwanted. You either kill them now or you kill them later in the electric chair.”

He followed that up by saying, “I may bring a bill to force all men to have vasectomies. That would end this whole debate.”
________

You are missing out on nailing the less than 1 term jackazz that was the beneficiary of the last minute sexual accusation (which proved false) against Roy Moore, that was part of the dirty Dem PAC money in action in the last Alabama election. Lying Doug Jones is another that needs to be replaced for some of the same reasons.

many cultures throughout history have practiced infanticide. I doubt anty have tried to justify it with pride as the democrats do in our culture. it is what it is. no one wants to call it what it is. astonishing really.

I'm not saying I agree with the law or that all abortion should be illegal, that's for our culture to decide.

but trying to call it anything other than what it is is more bullshite semantics.

democrats favor infanticide, they need to just say it and be honest.

Then if you want to skip the 'bullshite semantics':

republicans hate to have women have control over their own bodies. they need to just say it and be be honest. its amazing that no one wants to to call it what it is.

That is the exact corollary of your argument.

OK, somebody skipped either Logic 101 or Biology 101.

Or both.