(08-19-2019 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 03:48 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 02:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 10:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  Issues like the impact of TV certainly have an effect on overall conference or NCAA attendance statistics. But when it comes to individual schools, it's clear that nothing matters more than performance. Kansas' attendance didn't go in the toilet because there are too many games on TV competing for eyeballs. As recently as 2010 they were drawing a respectable 45K or so. While they only went 3-9 that season, they weren't far removed from a Top 10 season, and fans hadn't yet given up hope.

Looking closer to home, East Carolina's decline has been more sudden. In 2012, when they were 8-5 in a C-USA that looks a lot like today's AAC, they averaged 47K. In 2018 (3-9) that had plunged to 33K. Looking only at their conference games, they declined from 46K to 29K. They had two common conference opponents - Memphis and Houston - in those years, and the attendance for those two mirrored their overall conference numbers.

OOC in 2018 the Pirates averaged about 38K, down from 49K in 2012. In conference, ECU has almost never benefited by visiting teams traveling to Greenville. They aren't close to any conference mates. So all their decline seems to stem from the dissatisfaction of their own fans. The question is have they hit bottom yet, or will a couple of winning seasons stem the tide.

ECU is facing the same demographic shift as UNC-Ch - lot's, and lot's of girls on campus changing the profile of the graduates and those willing to come back on a regular basis for football. Also a noon or early afternoon kickoff in Greenville in September is pure hell from a temperature and humidity standpoint. No doubt winning would help. Without male dominated programs like Engineering, Agriculture, etc., it's much more difficult to turn a female alum into a donating and attending college football fan.

That's all true. But the demographic shift didn't happen overnight starting just a few years ago. And it takes a long time to start impacting alumni donations. If ECU had continued winning the way they did when Lincoln Riley was their OC, I don't think the bottom would have fallen out on attendance.

This is the P5 board. We don't need to be discussing ECU. UNC, Duke, N.C.State, Wake Forest, etc. absolutely discuss them. The conversation seems more a troll of ECU and is not wholly relevant to the board and oblique to the interests of the P5.

My bad. For some reason I thought this thread was about college football attendance averages for 2018.

(08-20-2019 08:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 03:48 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 02:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 10:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  Issues like the impact of TV certainly have an effect on overall conference or NCAA attendance statistics. But when it comes to individual schools, it's clear that nothing matters more than performance. Kansas' attendance didn't go in the toilet because there are too many games on TV competing for eyeballs. As recently as 2010 they were drawing a respectable 45K or so. While they only went 3-9 that season, they weren't far removed from a Top 10 season, and fans hadn't yet given up hope.

Looking closer to home, East Carolina's decline has been more sudden. In 2012, when they were 8-5 in a C-USA that looks a lot like today's AAC, they averaged 47K. In 2018 (3-9) that had plunged to 33K. Looking only at their conference games, they declined from 46K to 29K. They had two common conference opponents - Memphis and Houston - in those years, and the attendance for those two mirrored their overall conference numbers.

OOC in 2018 the Pirates averaged about 38K, down from 49K in 2012. In conference, ECU has almost never benefited by visiting teams traveling to Greenville. They aren't close to any conference mates. So all their decline seems to stem from the dissatisfaction of their own fans. The question is have they hit bottom yet, or will a couple of winning seasons stem the tide.

ECU is facing the same demographic shift as UNC-Ch - lot's, and lot's of girls on campus changing the profile of the graduates and those willing to come back on a regular basis for football. Also a noon or early afternoon kickoff in Greenville in September is pure hell from a temperature and humidity standpoint. No doubt winning would help. Without male dominated programs like Engineering, Agriculture, etc., it's much more difficult to turn a female alum into a donating and attending college football fan.

That's all true. But the demographic shift didn't happen overnight starting just a few years ago. And it takes a long time to start impacting alumni donations. If ECU had continued winning the way they did when Lincoln Riley was their OC, I don't think the bottom would have fallen out on attendance.

This is the P5 board. We don't need to be discussing ECU. UNC, Duke, N.C.State, Wake Forest, etc. absolutely discuss them. The conversation seems more a troll of ECU and is not wholly relevant to the board and oblique to the interests of the P5.

My bad. For some reason I thought this thread was about college football attendance averages for 2018.

Did the OP list attendance figures for the G5?

(08-20-2019 11:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 08:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 03:48 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 02:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  ECU is facing the same demographic shift as UNC-Ch - lot's, and lot's of girls on campus changing the profile of the graduates and those willing to come back on a regular basis for football. Also a noon or early afternoon kickoff in Greenville in September is pure hell from a temperature and humidity standpoint. No doubt winning would help. Without male dominated programs like Engineering, Agriculture, etc., it's much more difficult to turn a female alum into a donating and attending college football fan.

That's all true. But the demographic shift didn't happen overnight starting just a few years ago. And it takes a long time to start impacting alumni donations. If ECU had continued winning the way they did when Lincoln Riley was their OC, I don't think the bottom would have fallen out on attendance.

This is the P5 board. We don't need to be discussing ECU. UNC, Duke, N.C.State, Wake Forest, etc. absolutely discuss them. The conversation seems more a troll of ECU and is not wholly relevant to the board and oblique to the interests of the P5.

My bad. For some reason I thought this thread was about college football attendance averages for 2018.

Did the OP list attendance figures for the G5?

No - post #2 did. If you are seeing that conversation as trolling ECU, that's your bias. Not mine.

(08-20-2019 01:41 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 11:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2019 08:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 04:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-19-2019 03:48 PM)ken d Wrote:  That's all true. But the demographic shift didn't happen overnight starting just a few years ago. And it takes a long time to start impacting alumni donations. If ECU had continued winning the way they did when Lincoln Riley was their OC, I don't think the bottom would have fallen out on attendance.

This is the P5 board. We don't need to be discussing ECU. UNC, Duke, N.C.State, Wake Forest, etc. absolutely discuss them. The conversation seems more a troll of ECU and is not wholly relevant to the board and oblique to the interests of the P5.

My bad. For some reason I thought this thread was about college football attendance averages for 2018.

Did the OP list attendance figures for the G5?

No - post #2 did. If you are seeing that conversation as trolling ECU, that's your bias. Not mine.

Bias had nothing to do with it. Board appropriateness did. Bullet published the full list. You and Statefan turned it into half a page about the decline of ECU.

If you think that discussing reasons for declining attendance on a thread about declining attendance is irrelevant, you are entitled to your opinion just like anyone else. If you think using attendance date about ECU and Kansas, and not just Kansas, is inappropriate on this forum, you are also entitled to your opinion. If you think Statefan and I shouldn't have responded to the other's posts, again you are entitled to your opinion.

But when you accuse me or anyone else of trolling with nothing more than your opinion as evidence for that, you are out of line.

(08-20-2019 02:37 PM)ken d Wrote:  If you think that discussing reasons for declining attendance on a thread about declining attendance is irrelevant, you are entitled to your opinion just like anyone else. If you think using attendance date about ECU and Kansas, and not just Kansas, is inappropriate on this forum, you are also entitled to your opinion. If you think Statefan and I shouldn't have responded to the other's posts, again you are entitled to your opinion.

But when you accuse me or anyone else of trolling with nothing more than your opinion as evidence for that, you are out of line.

Not really. When two ACC fans in the state of North Carolina discuss the demise of E.C.U. it sure feels a bit trollish given past sentiments expressed about the "upstarts", "diploma mill" etc, aired by others if not you in particular about E.C.U..

If you want to discuss E.C.U. do it on the main board. When the discussion is discovered and E.C.U. fans come to this board to counter perhaps my point will have been concretized by their response. I was trying to head that off at the pass. But just accepting my comment and moving on wasn't enough, you wanted to personalize it. Why is that? By your own admission you had Kansas to talk about. Why the interest in E.C.U.? Given past expressions by some ACC posters which denigrate E.C.U. I'd say my suspicions were merited. If you didn't intend them that way I accept that. I can't prove or disprove intent. I can only suggest an alternate discussion if I see that one could lead to issues. Which I did. The emphasis seemed to be upon the downturn of E.C.U.'s performance on the field being the reason for the decline. As to coeds outnumbering males that's true at a lot of schools where there seems to be little impact on attendance. Utilizing attendance numbers to discuss a decline in on field success can have a correlation but it can also be a way to poke the bear where E.C.U. is concerned and since that has been a favorite whipping boy of some ACC posters in the past it caught my attention.

I feel like I just hit in a drive by shooting.

I'm not putting down ECU, my wife has a masters from ECU and my daughter is getting her masters from ECU.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/201...ale-campus

NC State has a 55-45 Male to Female ratio
UNC-Ch has a 40-60 ratio
ECU has a 43-57 ratio
Auburn has a 51-49 ratio and
Ohio State has a 52-48 ratio

UNC-Ch just cut Kenan down from 63K to 50K. The males that I see in the crowd in Chapel Hill are old - late 60's to 80's. Women don't make the same kind of football fans as do men. If you have had a big pulse of women coming through your historically male campus, at some point it has to change some things. Personally I think any P-5 attempting to keep a football program will be pressed to win a lot of games to keep people in the stands and in addition to Television, changing time budgeting habits, and yes a gender shift will hurt disproportionately an already marginal program.

It's hurt Duke, UNC, and MD.

I was just responding along the lines of the conversation and also noted the impact of Noon starts in the Eastern Time Zone in the hot and humid as hell Southeast US.