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Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
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grol Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-23-2019 05:19 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'm thinking Bragga is not 'getting' Rice. The stuff that works at Tennessee Tech won't work at Rice. It's not just talent (or lack of it) alone.

Not sure about getting Rice. I thing Owl 69++ is correct about recruiting. Hope new energy and the Rice scholarship plan makes it easier to get good players on campus.
03-23-2019 05:36 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-23-2019 05:19 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'm thinking Bragga is not 'getting' Rice. The stuff that works at Tennessee Tech won't work at Rice. It's not just talent (or lack of it) alone.

What exactly has he done to make you believe that?
03-23-2019 05:44 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-23-2019 05:44 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-23-2019 05:19 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'm thinking Bragga is not 'getting' Rice. The stuff that works at Tennessee Tech won't work at Rice. It's not just talent (or lack of it) alone.

What exactly has he done to make you believe that?

What does that even mean?
03-23-2019 06:30 PM
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RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
8-17 overall
0-5 in conference
a current 7-game losing streak in which we've been outscored by 33 runs despite not playing a ranked team in that period

All of those suggest to me we're going backwards in progress instead of getting better. Add in a few injuries which may just be bad luck, but also could be because the guys are being pushed too hard (in practice and in games).

It's not easy to adjust to Rice as a first-year coach. I think I have some insight into this as someone whose history with the Rice athletic department is more than 30 years strong. We're not very talented but a couple of wins here and there (3 against Big 12 teams) should suggest that we're better than 8-17 overall. As I pointed out elsewhere, we have yet to even see whom Bragga recruited for the 2020 season so far officially. That's hard to fathom. I want to give him a fair shake, but so far, I'm not impressed. Sorry.
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2019 06:35 PM by Fort Bend Owl.)
03-23-2019 06:34 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-23-2019 05:44 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-23-2019 05:19 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'm thinking Bragga is not 'getting' Rice. The stuff that works at Tennessee Tech won't work at Rice. It's not just talent (or lack of it) alone.

What exactly has he done to make you believe that?

To truly get Rice, you must stand on the side and clap repeatedly.

At least that's what we were told for the last decade.
03-23-2019 06:36 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-23-2019 04:55 PM)AnotherOldOwl Wrote:  Owls go meekly in the 9th. Final

UTSA 9-13-0
Rice 3-8-0


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

At least there were no errors. Yay!!!
03-23-2019 07:56 PM
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RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
When does women's basketball season start?
03-24-2019 07:08 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
Or women volleyball?
03-24-2019 07:23 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-23-2019 06:34 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  8-17 overall
0-5 in conference
a current 7-game losing streak in which we've been outscored by 33 runs despite not playing a ranked team in that period
All of those suggest to me we're going backwards in progress instead of getting better. Add in a few injuries which may just be bad luck, but also could be because the guys are being pushed too hard (in practice and in games).
It's not easy to adjust to Rice as a first-year coach. I think I have some insight into this as someone whose history with the Rice athletic department is more than 30 years strong. We're not very talented but a couple of wins here and there (3 against Big 12 teams) should suggest that we're better than 8-17 overall. As I pointed out elsewhere, we have yet to even see whom Bragga recruited for the 2020 season so far officially. That's hard to fathom. I want to give him a fair shake, but so far, I'm not impressed. Sorry.

I don't see any of that as instructive as to whether or not he 'gets' Rice. I don't see how you can reach that conclusion in half a season.

David Bailiff was always portrayed as someone who 'got' Rice, and I think he did, except one fairly important detail--I don't think he ever 'got' that he wasn't going to be able to win by out-recruiting and out-athleting people, that he couldn't just keep plugging square pegs into round holes, but that he needed to find ways to out-scheme and out-execute people who might have more talent. Todd Graham actually 'got' that part of Rice, but it's the only part he got. The jury is still out on Mike Bloomgren.

I'm not sure exactly what you would want Bragga to be doing differently. I'd like to see the players play better, but I'm just not sure they are good enough to do that. You mention being pushed too hard. Is there anything substantive to support that, or are you just spit-balling a guess? That could certainly be a big problem, partcularly at a place with Rice's academic requirements. I know first hand that coaching at Rice is different from coaching at Sam, and I suppose that he's coming from a place more like Sam than Rice.

But I'm just wondering, and maybe you can't share here, if there really is more to this not 'getting' Rice. Wayne clearly 'got' Rice, probably more than any coach of any sport since Neely, and one reason why I was so supportive of giving him a farewell tour with a chosen successor is that I think he would have made 'getting' Rice (whatever that means) a primary consideration.

I think our problems are almost all related to recruiting, and have been for several years. How much of it is due to the the $20,000 price tag differential? I don't know, but I'm hopeful that the Rice Investment will cure most or all of that. How much of it is due to negative recruiting about Wayne's age and longevity? I don't know, but that is clearly no longer an issue. How much is due to other things? Again, I don't know, and it is up to Bragga to cure those things.

But the only reason why I would reasonably expect things to show improvement this year is if Bragga were somehow a way better coach than Wayne was, and I simply don't believe that to be the case.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2019 09:35 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-24-2019 09:33 AM
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
I’m sure whenever Walt finishes his Russian investigation into Trump he will find time to respond but in the meantime....

I know I’ve beaten this dead horse for quite some time but I truly believe it to be so...

When Bragga came in and dropped multiple recruits for the 2019 signing class with little to zero observation, my gut reaction was “he better win quick because this is a bad look and other coaches will use it against him.” I still believe that to be the case. Problem is, he’s not winning quick.

If you don’t think his first impression of dropping longtime recruits and now a miserable start to his Rice career won’t negatively be used against him in the cutthroat game of recruiting, I have bad news for you. It’s already happening.... and yes, I know this first hand.

If there’s not a miracle turnaround this season and into next, Rice will be making a buyout attempt to start over again in a couple years.
03-24-2019 10:01 AM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 10:01 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  I’m sure whenever Walt finishes his Russian investigation into Trump he will find time to respond but in the meantime....

I know I’ve beaten this dead horse for quite some time but I truly believe it to be so...

When Bragga came in and dropped multiple recruits for the 2019 signing class with little to zero observation, my gut reaction was “he better win quick because this is a bad look and other coaches will use it against him.” I still believe that to be the case. Problem is, he’s not winning quick.

If you don’t think his first impression of dropping longtime recruits and now a miserable start to his Rice career won’t negatively be used against him in the cutthroat game of recruiting, I have bad news for you. It’s already happening.... and yes, I know this first hand.

If there’s not a miracle turnaround this season and into next, Rice will be making a buyout attempt to start over again in a couple years.

Or Rice could just go Greg Goff him?
03-24-2019 10:51 AM
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 10:51 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:01 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  I’m sure whenever Walt finishes his Russian investigation into Trump he will find time to respond but in the meantime....

I know I’ve beaten this dead horse for quite some time but I truly believe it to be so...

When Bragga came in and dropped multiple recruits for the 2019 signing class with little to zero observation, my gut reaction was “he better win quick because this is a bad look and other coaches will use it against him.” I still believe that to be the case. Problem is, he’s not winning quick.

If you don’t think his first impression of dropping longtime recruits and now a miserable start to his Rice career won’t negatively be used against him in the cutthroat game of recruiting, I have bad news for you. It’s already happening.... and yes, I know this first hand.

If there’s not a miracle turnaround this season and into next, Rice will be making a buyout attempt to start over again in a couple years.

Or Rice could just go Greg Goff him?

Goff had some serious infraction issues but, yes, they could theoretically...

It’s funny that the first 2019 recruit (Jackson Kiddy) Rice had was immediately snatched up by Pat Hallmark at UIW within 2 days of Bragga unceremoniously cutting his offer. Probably because Hallmark had actually seen him play and evaluated him multiple times. Hallmark, by the way, has led a very quick turnaround at Incarnate Word. Add that tiny school to the ever growing list of better programs in Texas than Rice...
03-24-2019 11:00 AM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 11:00 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:51 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:01 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  I’m sure whenever Walt finishes his Russian investigation into Trump he will find time to respond but in the meantime....

I know I’ve beaten this dead horse for quite some time but I truly believe it to be so...

When Bragga came in and dropped multiple recruits for the 2019 signing class with little to zero observation, my gut reaction was “he better win quick because this is a bad look and other coaches will use it against him.” I still believe that to be the case. Problem is, he’s not winning quick.

If you don’t think his first impression of dropping longtime recruits and now a miserable start to his Rice career won’t negatively be used against him in the cutthroat game of recruiting, I have bad news for you. It’s already happening.... and yes, I know this first hand.

If there’s not a miracle turnaround this season and into next, Rice will be making a buyout attempt to start over again in a couple years.

Or Rice could just go Greg Goff him?

Goff had some serious infraction issues but, yes, they could theoretically...

It’s funny that the first 2019 recruit (Jackson Kiddy) Rice had was immediately snatched up by Pat Hallmark at UIW within 2 days of Bragga unceremoniously cutting his offer. Probably because Hallmark had actually seen him play and evaluated him multiple times. Hallmark, by the way, has led a very quick turnaround at Incarnate Word. Add that tiny school to the ever growing list of better programs in Texas than Rice...

I see what you’re saying about recruiting, the decline, etc but it’s hard to square what you’re saying about the guys Bragga dropped with the fact that our 2018 recruits, who are freshman now (recruited by Graham/Pope), have not yielded one impact player. That doesn’t give me a ton of confidence about the direction our recruiting was heading.

When I combine that with the fact the Bragga commits have been more highly rated *on paper* than the guys that Graham was bringing in late in his career, I’m not sure that recruiting is Bragga’s problem... Coaching might be.

Agree that Hallmark has done a nice job at UIW.
03-24-2019 11:06 AM
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 11:06 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 11:00 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:51 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:01 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  I’m sure whenever Walt finishes his Russian investigation into Trump he will find time to respond but in the meantime....

I know I’ve beaten this dead horse for quite some time but I truly believe it to be so...

When Bragga came in and dropped multiple recruits for the 2019 signing class with little to zero observation, my gut reaction was “he better win quick because this is a bad look and other coaches will use it against him.” I still believe that to be the case. Problem is, he’s not winning quick.

If you don’t think his first impression of dropping longtime recruits and now a miserable start to his Rice career won’t negatively be used against him in the cutthroat game of recruiting, I have bad news for you. It’s already happening.... and yes, I know this first hand.

If there’s not a miracle turnaround this season and into next, Rice will be making a buyout attempt to start over again in a couple years.

Or Rice could just go Greg Goff him?

Goff had some serious infraction issues but, yes, they could theoretically...

It’s funny that the first 2019 recruit (Jackson Kiddy) Rice had was immediately snatched up by Pat Hallmark at UIW within 2 days of Bragga unceremoniously cutting his offer. Probably because Hallmark had actually seen him play and evaluated him multiple times. Hallmark, by the way, has led a very quick turnaround at Incarnate Word. Add that tiny school to the ever growing list of better programs in Texas than Rice...

I see what you’re saying about recruiting, the decline, etc but it’s hard to square what you’re saying about the guys Bragga dropped with the fact that our 2018 recruits, who are freshman now (recruited by Graham/Pope), have not yielded one impact player. That doesn’t give me a ton of confidence about the direction our recruiting was heading.

When I combine that with the fact the Bragga commits have been more highly rated *on paper* than the guys that Graham was bringing in late in his career, I’m not sure that recruiting is Bragga’s problem... Coaching might be.

Agree that Hallmark has done a nice job at UIW.

Literally none of the Pope recruits are on campus yet. His first group was the incoming freshmen NEXT year.
03-24-2019 12:03 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 12:03 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 11:06 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 11:00 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:51 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:01 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  I’m sure whenever Walt finishes his Russian investigation into Trump he will find time to respond but in the meantime....

I know I’ve beaten this dead horse for quite some time but I truly believe it to be so...

When Bragga came in and dropped multiple recruits for the 2019 signing class with little to zero observation, my gut reaction was “he better win quick because this is a bad look and other coaches will use it against him.” I still believe that to be the case. Problem is, he’s not winning quick.

If you don’t think his first impression of dropping longtime recruits and now a miserable start to his Rice career won’t negatively be used against him in the cutthroat game of recruiting, I have bad news for you. It’s already happening.... and yes, I know this first hand.

If there’s not a miracle turnaround this season and into next, Rice will be making a buyout attempt to start over again in a couple years.

Or Rice could just go Greg Goff him?

Goff had some serious infraction issues but, yes, they could theoretically...

It’s funny that the first 2019 recruit (Jackson Kiddy) Rice had was immediately snatched up by Pat Hallmark at UIW within 2 days of Bragga unceremoniously cutting his offer. Probably because Hallmark had actually seen him play and evaluated him multiple times. Hallmark, by the way, has led a very quick turnaround at Incarnate Word. Add that tiny school to the ever growing list of better programs in Texas than Rice...

I see what you’re saying about recruiting, the decline, etc but it’s hard to square what you’re saying about the guys Bragga dropped with the fact that our 2018 recruits, who are freshman now (recruited by Graham/Pope), have not yielded one impact player. That doesn’t give me a ton of confidence about the direction our recruiting was heading.

When I combine that with the fact the Bragga commits have been more highly rated *on paper* than the guys that Graham was bringing in late in his career, I’m not sure that recruiting is Bragga’s problem... Coaching might be.

Agree that Hallmark has done a nice job at UIW.

Literally none of the Pope recruits are on campus yet. His first group was the incoming freshmen NEXT year.

Who recruited the guys who are on campus now?

By my calculations, Pope was hired in June 2016, between the current freshman’s sophomore and junior years... Now I understand college baseball recruiting goes pretty early, but it’s hard for me to believe he didn’t have some impact on the current freshman class.
03-24-2019 12:10 PM
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Owl1998 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 12:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 12:03 PM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 11:06 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 11:00 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 10:51 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Or Rice could just go Greg Goff him?

Goff had some serious infraction issues but, yes, they could theoretically...

It’s funny that the first 2019 recruit (Jackson Kiddy) Rice had was immediately snatched up by Pat Hallmark at UIW within 2 days of Bragga unceremoniously cutting his offer. Probably because Hallmark had actually seen him play and evaluated him multiple times. Hallmark, by the way, has led a very quick turnaround at Incarnate Word. Add that tiny school to the ever growing list of better programs in Texas than Rice...

I see what you’re saying about recruiting, the decline, etc but it’s hard to square what you’re saying about the guys Bragga dropped with the fact that our 2018 recruits, who are freshman now (recruited by Graham/Pope), have not yielded one impact player. That doesn’t give me a ton of confidence about the direction our recruiting was heading.

When I combine that with the fact the Bragga commits have been more highly rated *on paper* than the guys that Graham was bringing in late in his career, I’m not sure that recruiting is Bragga’s problem... Coaching might be.

Agree that Hallmark has done a nice job at UIW.

Literally none of the Pope recruits are on campus yet. His first group was the incoming freshmen NEXT year.

Who recruited the guys who are on campus now?

By my calculations, Pope was hired in June 2016, between the current freshman’s sophomore and junior years... Now I understand college baseball recruiting goes pretty early, but it’s hard for me to believe he didn’t have some impact on the current freshman class.

Van Hook recruited them. Pope recruited the 2019 signing class that Bragga disassembled.
03-24-2019 12:31 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 09:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't see any of that as instructive as to whether or not he 'gets' Rice. I don't see how you can reach that conclusion in half a season.

Agenda peddling.

Let's call a spade a spade. The 250(0) and insiders have oft used this line to justify their agenda, regardless of reality. Given the 0-fer record by the aforementioned on actually successful coaches, I wouldn't give this a lick of credibility. Bragga may or may not succeed, but theres no way it's due to this amalgamous excuse of whatever known as "getting Rice" just yet.

This has the credibility of Fattah El Sisi bemoaning the lack of competition in the elections.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2019 07:36 AM by Antarius.)
03-25-2019 07:33 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 07:08 AM)owlsfan Wrote:  When does women's basketball season start?
(03-24-2019 07:23 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Or women volleyball?

If you're that bored, we could start a watch thread for Holly Warlick's status.
03-25-2019 09:16 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #39
RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-25-2019 07:33 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 09:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't see any of that as instructive as to whether or not he 'gets' Rice. I don't see how you can reach that conclusion in half a season.
Agenda peddling.
Let's call a spade a spade. The 250(0) and insiders have oft used this line to justify their agenda, regardless of reality. Given the 0-fer record by the aforementioned on actually successful coaches, I wouldn't give this a lick of credibility. Bragga may or may not succeed, but theres no way it's due to this amalgamous excuse of whatever known as "getting Rice" just yet.
This has the credibility of Fattah El Sisi bemoaning the lack of competition in the elections.

I know a lot of people involved in what you are calling the 250(0) and I'm not sure what their agenda is, other than a bigger financial commitment to football. I think they ended up getting placed on the side of retaining David Bailiff, but I know that was not the feeling of a large number of them.

As far as 'gets' Rice, I am not at all certain just WTF that means. If it means knowing that Rice has residential colleges, then Bailiff 'got' Rice. So did Todd Graham, by the way, if that's where we set the bar. If it means knowing how to relate to Rice students and get them involved in supporting his program, then Scott Thompson 'got' Rice. If it means figuring out how to build a consistent winning program that reaches the highest level and sustains for two decades or more, then Jess Neely and Wayne Graham are the only two people I know who 'got' Rice. If it's that latter standard, then the jury is still out on Bloomgren, Pera, and Bragga.
03-25-2019 09:20 AM
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RE: Rice v UTSA - Saturday game
(03-24-2019 10:01 AM)Owl1998 Wrote:  If there’s not a miracle turnaround this season and into next, Rice will be making a buyout attempt to start over again in a couple years.

There is really no way to make a full judgement on Bragga at this point. He definitely has a strategic approach (long-ball versus small-ish ball) that is different from coach Graham, and I think there has been some discussion about whether that is a wise approach. That was known at hiring time, and all we've really seen is what it looks like with players that were largely not recruited for that approach.

He does seem to have the respect of the players. I think how he handled existing offers was a mistake, but he really has to establish his own record in recruiting, and in getting results out of the current players in the process. I think there are a number of factors that have contributed to the downward trend for Rice Baseball over the past few years, and I don't think that Wayne Graham forgot how to coach in that time. I think a number of other programs in the area had built solid programs with solid coaches, but had been hit-and-miss in prior years - that includes TCU, UH, Baylor, TAMU, and a number of other schools in the region.

(03-25-2019 07:33 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 09:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't see any of that as instructive as to whether or not he 'gets' Rice. I don't see how you can reach that conclusion in half a season.
Agenda peddling.
Let's call a spade a spade. The 250(0) and insiders have oft used this line to justify their agenda, regardless of reality. Given the 0-fer record by the aforementioned on actually successful coaches, I wouldn't give this a lick of credibility. Bragga may or may not succeed, but theres no way it's due to this amalgamous excuse of whatever known as "getting Rice" just yet.
This has the credibility of Fattah El Sisi bemoaning the lack of competition in the elections.

You may as well just start calling them the "Rice Illuminati". Are we really convinced that they ever actually existed?
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2019 09:50 AM by I45owl.)
03-25-2019 09:38 AM
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