(02-07-2019 03:05 PM)gusrob Wrote:  We're a season too late on Marc. Guess we'll wait a couple years to get nada for mike Conley too. GRRRRR

Not the big moves I was expecting.

More than a season too late on Marc. Mike will be traded this summer when his value will be better.

Grizz purposefully set the market price high for him and rightfully so.

Once free agency clears and teams who thought they were getting someone, but end up striking out will have open cap space to make a deal.

The pick really need to be conveyed at this point.

But it is like Calkins said. You are essentially trading to junk around Marc/Mike for junk around Mike now with very little to get excited about in the future (i.e. draft picks)

(02-07-2019 03:02 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 02:53 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 02:49 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  The terrible deal though is Green and Temple to the Clips for Avery Bradley. Like that's just an awful awful awful deal.

We’ll see. Two guys that don’t defend for a guy that does.

I also think Jonas is a better fit with JJJ than Marc. I would have liked to have picks too, but we’ll see how it plays out.

Who cares about defending. Your trying to rebuild. Avery isn't helping in that department. They need draft picks.

The deal I would've made or try to make work would've been Green and Temple to Houston for Knight, Chriss, and 1st.

Chriss is perhaps the worst player in the league. Not joking. And why do we want Brandon Knight on our books next year for $16M? He's toast, he can't play anymore. All for the 25th pick in this year's draft? Needless to say, I respectfully disagree.

And who did the Suns want from us? Marc? They already have an outdated big man.

(02-07-2019 03:10 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:02 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 02:53 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 02:49 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  The terrible deal though is Green and Temple to the Clips for Avery Bradley. Like that's just an awful awful awful deal.

We’ll see. Two guys that don’t defend for a guy that does.

I also think Jonas is a better fit with JJJ than Marc. I would have liked to have picks too, but we’ll see how it plays out.

Who cares about defending. Your trying to rebuild. Avery isn't helping in that department. They need draft picks.

The deal I would've made or try to make work would've been Green and Temple to Houston for Knight, Chriss, and 1st.

Chriss is perhaps the worst player in the league. Not joking. And why do we want Brandon Knight on our books next year for $16M? He's toast, he can't play anymore. All for the 25th pick in this year's draft? Needless to say, I respectfully disagree.

He's still young. Bring him here and see if you can develop him. Again cap space isn't that big of a deal. Grizz aren't trying to woo in free agency they are rebuilding.

Next year doesn't even matter as they are going to tank big time.

Also Houston is projected to have the 21st pick maybe somebody you really like who is a sleeper in a weak draft falls or rises up to that spot.

Just about everyone that writes or talks Grizz media wise locally said this is a deal the Grizz needed to make.

The return in that deal is a just plain better than just Avery Bradley. Grizz got absolutely owned in the Green/Temple deal

(02-07-2019 03:10 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  The pick really need to be conveyed at this point.

But it is like Calkins said. You are essentially trading to junk around Marc/Mike for junk around Mike now with very little to get excited about in the future (i.e. draft picks)

Exactly. Like I don't know why the Grizz were so worried about a bad contract. If they got 1st's out of taking one on.

The draft picks are what is important to a rebuild in this market and they still don't realize that.

(02-07-2019 03:20 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:10 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  The pick really need to be conveyed at this point.

But it is like Calkins said. You are essentially trading to junk around Marc/Mike for junk around Mike now with very little to get excited about in the future (i.e. draft picks)

Exactly. Like I don't know why the Grizz were so worried about a bad contract. If they got 1st's out of taking one on.

The draft picks are what is important to a rebuild in this market and they still don't realize that.

Top 5 or top 10 draft picks, maybe. But the Magic and Suns and T'Wolves and until this year, finally, the Kings had top 5 picks forever and did nothing with them. Bulls doing the same now.

We have JJJ already by sheer luck. We don't have to strip this thing all the way down to the studs, hoping one day for a top 5 pick to get a guy like JJJ. I hope to hell we keep Mike now. Jonas, Ivan, Kyle, Dillon, Delon, hopefully Justin added to Mike and JJJ is a competitive team. Finish off the Chandler contract, and we have room to add to this core.

What pick do you think PHX was gonna give up? Their 2019 lottery pick? I doubt it.

Marcin Gortat and Enes Kanter already bought out today. Robin Lopez and DeAndre Jordan could also be bought out soon.

The center position is glutted. We really did well to get what we did for a 34 year old Gasol making $25 million.

Also why Jonas will opt in with his player option this summer.

(02-07-2019 03:26 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:20 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:10 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  The pick really need to be conveyed at this point.

But it is like Calkins said. You are essentially trading to junk around Marc/Mike for junk around Mike now with very little to get excited about in the future (i.e. draft picks)

Exactly. Like I don't know why the Grizz were so worried about a bad contract. If they got 1st's out of taking one on.

The draft picks are what is important to a rebuild in this market and they still don't realize that.

Top 5 or top 10 draft picks, maybe. But the Magic and Suns and T'Wolves and until this year, finally, the Kings had top 5 picks forever and did nothing with them. Bulls doing the same now.

We have JJJ already by sheer luck. We don't have to strip this thing all the way down to the studs, hoping one day for a top 5 pick to get a guy like JJJ. I hope to hell we keep Mike now. Jonas, Ivan, Kyle, Dillon, Delon, hopefully Justin added to Mike and JJJ is a competitive team. Finish off the Chandler contract, and we have room to add to this core.

JJJ is not sheer luck. JJJ is exactly what tanking does. It was widely known that the top 3 last year were going to be Ayton, Bagley, Doncic. So JJJ being at 4 isn't lucky.

Finding a sleeper in a draft is sheer luck.

That team you listed isn't a competitive team. Stop that non sense. Is it a team that could potentially convey a pick yeah, but it's not a team that is competing for playoffs in the Western Conf.

You need more guys like JJJ and the only way Grizz are getting those type of guys is in the draft.

(02-07-2019 03:28 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  What pick do you think PHX was gonna give up? Their 2019 lottery pick? I doubt it.

Huh? What is this referring to

(02-07-2019 03:42 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:28 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  What pick do you think PHX was gonna give up? Their 2019 lottery pick? I doubt it.

Huh? What is this referring to

Lol. Sorry I can’t keep up with scrub players apparently. Didn’t realize Knight and Chriss were in Houston.

Cleveland apparently did the trade you wanted. What 1st round pick are they getting? Definitely not a lottery pick from Houston.

(02-07-2019 03:42 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:26 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:20 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:10 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  The pick really need to be conveyed at this point.

But it is like Calkins said. You are essentially trading to junk around Marc/Mike for junk around Mike now with very little to get excited about in the future (i.e. draft picks)

Exactly. Like I don't know why the Grizz were so worried about a bad contract. If they got 1st's out of taking one on.

The draft picks are what is important to a rebuild in this market and they still don't realize that.

Top 5 or top 10 draft picks, maybe. But the Magic and Suns and T'Wolves and until this year, finally, the Kings had top 5 picks forever and did nothing with them. Bulls doing the same now.

We have JJJ already by sheer luck. We don't have to strip this thing all the way down to the studs, hoping one day for a top 5 pick to get a guy like JJJ. I hope to hell we keep Mike now. Jonas, Ivan, Kyle, Dillon, Delon, hopefully Justin added to Mike and JJJ is a competitive team. Finish off the Chandler contract, and we have room to add to this core.

JJJ is not sheer luck. JJJ is exactly what tanking does. It was widely known that the top 3 last year were going to be Ayton, Bagley, Doncic. So JJJ being at 4 isn't lucky.

JJJ is sheer luck. The 4th pick the year before was Josh Jackson. 4th pick in '16 was Dragan freaking Bender. The 4th pick this year will be someone like Cam Reddish, who is not in the same stratosphere as JJJ.

We lucked out. Tanked in a great year, and JJJ fell to us.

The deals the Grizz made highlight the fact that Gasol / Conley, with their contracts, didn't have the value that a lot of Grizz fans think they should.

(02-07-2019 03:52 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:42 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:26 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:20 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:10 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  The pick really need to be conveyed at this point.

But it is like Calkins said. You are essentially trading to junk around Marc/Mike for junk around Mike now with very little to get excited about in the future (i.e. draft picks)

Exactly. Like I don't know why the Grizz were so worried about a bad contract. If they got 1st's out of taking one on.

The draft picks are what is important to a rebuild in this market and they still don't realize that.

Top 5 or top 10 draft picks, maybe. But the Magic and Suns and T'Wolves and until this year, finally, the Kings had top 5 picks forever and did nothing with them. Bulls doing the same now.

We have JJJ already by sheer luck. We don't have to strip this thing all the way down to the studs, hoping one day for a top 5 pick to get a guy like JJJ. I hope to hell we keep Mike now. Jonas, Ivan, Kyle, Dillon, Delon, hopefully Justin added to Mike and JJJ is a competitive team. Finish off the Chandler contract, and we have room to add to this core.

JJJ is not sheer luck. JJJ is exactly what tanking does. It was widely known that the top 3 last year were going to be Ayton, Bagley, Doncic. So JJJ being at 4 isn't lucky.

JJJ is sheer luck. The 4th pick the year before was Josh Jackson. 4th pick in '16 was Dragan freaking Bender. The 4th pick this year will be someone like Cam Reddish, who is not in the same stratosphere as JJJ.

We lucked out. Tanked in a great year, and JJJ fell to us.

The 4th pick is a 50/50 proposition really.

Since 2010:

2017 Josh Jackson, Kansas – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender, Israel – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesta Sevilla – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon, Arizona – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller, Indiana – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters, Syracuse – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson, Texas – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson, Syracuse – Minnesota Timberwolves

the 4th pick from 2003 to 2009 was awesome though.

2009 Tyreke Evans, Memphis – Sacramento Kings
2008 Russell Westbrook, UCLA – Seattle Supersonics
2007 Mike Conley Jr, Ohio State – Memphis Grizzlies
2006 Tyrus Thomas, Louisiana State – Portland Trail Blazers
2005 Chris Paul, Wake Forest – New Orleans Hornets
2004 Shaun Livingston, Peoria HS (IL) – L.A. Clippers
2003 Chris Bosh, Georgia Tech – Toronto Raptors
2002 Drew Gooden, Kansas – Memphis Grizzlies
2001 Eddy Curry, Thornwood HS (IL) – Chicago Bulls
2000 Marcus Fizer, Iowa State – Chicago Bulls

50-50 at best. See a lot more misses, and some outright busts. My point stands, we lucked out.

Ringer had JJJ as best player in draft. Dean Demakis had JJJ as 3rd best draft pick in last 10 years, behind AD and Luka.

(02-07-2019 03:52 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:42 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:26 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:20 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:10 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  The pick really need to be conveyed at this point.

But it is like Calkins said. You are essentially trading to junk around Marc/Mike for junk around Mike now with very little to get excited about in the future (i.e. draft picks)

Exactly. Like I don't know why the Grizz were so worried about a bad contract. If they got 1st's out of taking one on.

The draft picks are what is important to a rebuild in this market and they still don't realize that.

Top 5 or top 10 draft picks, maybe. But the Magic and Suns and T'Wolves and until this year, finally, the Kings had top 5 picks forever and did nothing with them. Bulls doing the same now.

We have JJJ already by sheer luck. We don't have to strip this thing all the way down to the studs, hoping one day for a top 5 pick to get a guy like JJJ. I hope to hell we keep Mike now. Jonas, Ivan, Kyle, Dillon, Delon, hopefully Justin added to Mike and JJJ is a competitive team. Finish off the Chandler contract, and we have room to add to this core.

JJJ is not sheer luck. JJJ is exactly what tanking does. It was widely known that the top 3 last year were going to be Ayton, Bagley, Doncic. So JJJ being at 4 isn't lucky.

JJJ is sheer luck. The 4th pick the year before was Josh Jackson. 4th pick in '16 was Dragan freaking Bender. The 4th pick this year will be someone like Cam Reddish, who is not in the same stratosphere as JJJ.

We lucked out. Tanked in a great year, and JJJ fell to us.

They tanked for a reason to get a high pick in what was considered by a lot as a very strong draft.

That's not luck. That's tanking doing what it should've done. JJJ didn't fall to the Grizz. Everyone knew who the top 3 were going to be. Everyone also knew JJJ would be a star eventually at this level once his offensive game came around.

It's more perfect timing than luck. It was a perfect timing that Grizz tanked in a year where the draft was strong.

What the Grizz have gotten lucky on is the fact that JJJ's offensive game has been better than originally thought.

(02-07-2019 03:56 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  The deals the Grizz made highlight the fact that Gasol / Conley, with their contracts, didn't have the value that a lot of Grizz fans think they should.

Value goes down as you age. They were worth it at the time that they signed.

(02-07-2019 04:12 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:52 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:42 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:26 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:20 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  Exactly. Like I don't know why the Grizz were so worried about a bad contract. If they got 1st's out of taking one on.

The draft picks are what is important to a rebuild in this market and they still don't realize that.

Top 5 or top 10 draft picks, maybe. But the Magic and Suns and T'Wolves and until this year, finally, the Kings had top 5 picks forever and did nothing with them. Bulls doing the same now.

We have JJJ already by sheer luck. We don't have to strip this thing all the way down to the studs, hoping one day for a top 5 pick to get a guy like JJJ. I hope to hell we keep Mike now. Jonas, Ivan, Kyle, Dillon, Delon, hopefully Justin added to Mike and JJJ is a competitive team. Finish off the Chandler contract, and we have room to add to this core.

JJJ is not sheer luck. JJJ is exactly what tanking does. It was widely known that the top 3 last year were going to be Ayton, Bagley, Doncic. So JJJ being at 4 isn't lucky.

JJJ is sheer luck. The 4th pick the year before was Josh Jackson. 4th pick in '16 was Dragan freaking Bender. The 4th pick this year will be someone like Cam Reddish, who is not in the same stratosphere as JJJ.

We lucked out. Tanked in a great year, and JJJ fell to us.

They tanked for a reason to get a high pick in what was considered by a lot as a very strong draft.

That's not luck. That's tanking doing what it should've done. JJJ didn't fall to the Grizz. Everyone knew who the top 3 were going to be. Everyone also knew JJJ would be a star eventually at this level once his offensive game came around.

It's more perfect timing than luck. It was a perfect timing that Grizz tanked in a year where the draft was strong.

What the Grizz have gotten lucky on is the fact that JJJ's offensive game has been better than originally thought.

Not true. Some had Bagley as low as 8th. And some even had Ayton low. Luka and JJJ were the jewels of this draft, and one fell to us at 4. That is luck.

(02-07-2019 04:12 PM)mairving Wrote:  

(02-07-2019 03:56 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  The deals the Grizz made highlight the fact that Gasol / Conley, with their contracts, didn't have the value that a lot of Grizz fans think they should.

Value goes down as you age. They were worth it at the time that they signed.

No.