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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #181
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-08-2019 05:07 PM)billymac Wrote:  As acoording to Billy Joel, "That's just the way it is..."

Isn't that Williamsburg's own Bruce Hornsby?
02-08-2019 05:51 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #182
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-08-2019 05:07 PM)billymac Wrote:  As acoording to Billy Joel, "That's just the way it is..."

I think the correct Billy Joel song quote for Tribe fans is "Keeping the Faith" or "For the Longest Time[i]". Hopefully, tomorrow against Hofstra, they will have a "[i]New York State of Mind"
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019 06:10 PM by mrjoolius.)
02-08-2019 06:08 PM
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billymac Offline
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Post: #183
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-08-2019 05:51 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(02-08-2019 05:07 PM)billymac Wrote:  As acoording to Billy Joel, "That's just the way it is..."

Isn't that Williamsburg's own Bruce Hornsby?

Correct. Brain-fade. I hear piano and immediately go to Billy Joel.

Don't tell Bruce...
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02-08-2019 06:12 PM
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EvanJ Offline
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Post: #184
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-08-2019 05:07 PM)billymac Wrote:  Sad thing is, the Pac-12 should definitely be a one bid league this year, but they won't. The P-5 powers that be will take care of them (assured of two bids, at least).

As acoording to Billy Joel, "That's just the way it is..."
Washington almost certainly will get in. Their second best NET is Oregon in 70th.
02-10-2019 01:54 PM
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3xTribe Offline
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Post: #185
RE: MBB Disappointment
(01-27-2019 08:39 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  I've posted this before:

https://watchstadium.com/news/caa-basket...1-22-2018/

We are way overachieving per this analysis. Moving to the Patriot League would not be inappropriate based on this analysis.

None of us wants to do that. And we're hoping the administration is opening up the spigots. But realize that the situation is (I believe) actually a little bit better than it has been during most of Shaver's tenure.

If you want to fire someone because of a 20-year (actually 34 years by my book) stretch of futility you would fire Reverly and Driscoll who are no longer here.

I went with a fellow alum to the Charleston game last night. On the way we were discussing the dilemma of being a school President at a university like Alabama or Ohio State, where sports drive everything. How sad! W&M is not a sports-first institution. It's makes it more difficult. Our opponents don't understand that. But we fans should.

I'm wondering if I could engage the hive mind for some input. There are many references to the Patriot League on this board, almost exclusively arguments against W&M moving to that conference. If a person were doing an academic study on the benefits or lack thereof in such a move (hypothetically, of course), what would be some important factors to consider? I've come up with the following list, but am curious whether there are others:

Academic compatibility
Potential gain/loss of revenue
Travel costs/travel time
Balance of academic/athletic requirements
National exposure/TV appearances
Likelihood of reaching NCAAs in basketball
Overall enrollment benefits of reaching NCAAs
Alumni engagement
Traditional rivalries

Any input from this august body of experts would be appreciated.
02-19-2019 02:55 PM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #186
RE: MBB Disappointment
I agree PAC 12 will get 2. Washington and probably Arizona State, my guess is Washington will make sure they do not win the conference championship to ensure 2 bids, since ASU is a fringe team. The AAC is better this year than the PAC 12
02-19-2019 03:05 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #187
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-19-2019 02:55 PM)3xTribe Wrote:  I'm wondering if I could engage the hive mind for some input. There are many references to the Patriot League on this board, almost exclusively arguments against W&M moving to that conference. If a person were doing an academic study on the benefits or lack thereof in such a move (hypothetically, of course), what would be some important factors to consider? I've come up with the following list, but am curious whether there are others:

Academic compatibility
Potential gain/loss of revenue
Travel costs/travel time
Balance of academic/athletic requirements
National exposure/TV appearances
Likelihood of reaching NCAAs in basketball
Overall enrollment benefits of reaching NCAAs
Alumni engagement
Traditional rivalries

Any input from this august body of experts would be appreciated.

Don't forget the effect of all of those factors on other sports. Not just football but the Olympic sports as well (of which W&M has won far more championships than they have in football or basketball).
02-19-2019 06:34 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #188
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-19-2019 03:05 PM)dan10 Wrote:  I agree PAC 12 will get 2. Washington and probably Arizona State, my guess is Washington will make sure they do not win the conference championship to ensure 2 bids, since ASU is a fringe team. The AAC is better this year than the PAC 12

Wait - can the PAC-12 do that? I thought that the A-10 owned all patents and copyrights on that maneuver.
02-19-2019 06:36 PM
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billymac Offline
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Post: #189
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-19-2019 06:36 PM)Zorch Wrote:  
(02-19-2019 03:05 PM)dan10 Wrote:  I agree PAC 12 will get 2. Washington and probably Arizona State, my guess is Washington will make sure they do not win the conference championship to ensure 2 bids, since ASU is a fringe team. The AAC is better this year than the PAC 12

Wait - can the PAC-12 do that? I thought that the A-10 owned all patents and copyrights on that maneuver.

Bernadette McQuade is definitely the expert on that scenario.
02-19-2019 07:41 PM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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Post: #190
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-19-2019 02:55 PM)3xTribe Wrote:  
(01-27-2019 08:39 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  I've posted this before:

https://watchstadium.com/news/caa-basket...1-22-2018/

We are way overachieving per this analysis. Moving to the Patriot League would not be inappropriate based on this analysis.

None of us wants to do that. And we're hoping the administration is opening up the spigots. But realize that the situation is (I believe) actually a little bit better than it has been during most of Shaver's tenure.

If you want to fire someone because of a 20-year (actually 34 years by my book) stretch of futility you would fire Reverly and Driscoll who are no longer here.

I went with a fellow alum to the Charleston game last night. On the way we were discussing the dilemma of being a school President at a university like Alabama or Ohio State, where sports drive everything. How sad! W&M is not a sports-first institution. It's makes it more difficult. Our opponents don't understand that. But we fans should.

I'm wondering if I could engage the hive mind for some input. There are many references to the Patriot League on this board, almost exclusively arguments against W&M moving to that conference. If a person were doing an academic study on the benefits or lack thereof in such a move (hypothetically, of course), what would be some important factors to consider? I've come up with the following list, but am curious whether there are others:

Academic compatibility
Potential gain/loss of revenue
Travel costs/travel time
Balance of academic/athletic requirements
National exposure/TV appearances
Likelihood of reaching NCAAs in basketball
Overall enrollment benefits of reaching NCAAs
Alumni engagement
Traditional rivalries

Any input from this august body of experts would be appreciated.

Am hoping Pictor Group, retained by the athletic department, has completed much of this work and that at least the redacted version will become available at some point. In the meantime continue to argue that because W&M is at a net disadvantage from an academic standpoint (for every athlete attracted to the College for its academics, some larger number won’t be accepted), the resource playing field needs to be relatively level.

Enrollment size matters because of how it factors into dollars from student activity fees and size of athletic budget. A school with 25,000 students will have resources a school with less than 10,000 won’t. Also matters whether conference mates play football or are able to concentrate resources into men’s basketball.

Geography is a big deal, but there are other important considerations. The administration and fans ought to be able to articulate the advantages of the conference affiliation. Am unsure anyone can make a compelling case for CAA at this juncture.
02-19-2019 09:34 PM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #191
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-19-2019 06:36 PM)Zorch Wrote:  
(02-19-2019 03:05 PM)dan10 Wrote:  I agree PAC 12 will get 2. Washington and probably Arizona State, my guess is Washington will make sure they do not win the conference championship to ensure 2 bids, since ASU is a fringe team. The AAC is better this year than the PAC 12

Wait - can the PAC-12 do that? I thought that the A-10 owned all patents and copyrights on that maneuver.

Touche. They do seem to do it every freakin' year.
02-20-2019 07:27 AM
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NC Tribe Offline
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Post: #192
RE: MBB Disappointment
"Am unsure anyone can make a compelling case for CAA at this juncture."

I can think of three

1. Best men's basketball conference we have been invited to join, A-10 is better, but haven't been invited.
2. Best FCS football conference in country
3. Member schools in states important for recruitment of student athletes and regular students. The Northeast is a critical region.

Finally, I could care less what the academic reputations are of other school's in the Tribe's conference. I don't want the Tribe to be the best football or hoops team among the nerd herd. I want the Tribe to be the best of the best. If that means playing other state schools that have 30,000 students, that is fine with me. Just beat them.
02-20-2019 11:19 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #193
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-20-2019 11:19 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  "Am unsure anyone can make a compelling case for CAA at this juncture."

I can think of three

1. Best men's basketball conference we have been invited to join, A-10 is better, but haven't been invited.
2. Best FCS football conference in country
3. Member schools in states important for recruitment of student athletes and regular students. The Northeast is a critical region.

Finally, I could care less what the academic reputations are of other school's in the Tribe's conference. I don't want the Tribe to be the best football or hoops team among the nerd herd. I want the Tribe to be the best of the best. If that means playing other state schools that have 30,000 students, that is fine with me. Just beat them.

Right on! Great post!
02-20-2019 10:39 PM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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Post: #194
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-20-2019 11:19 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  "Am unsure anyone can make a compelling case for CAA at this juncture."

I can think of three

1. Best men's basketball conference we have been invited to join, A-10 is better, but haven't been invited.
2. Best FCS football conference in country
3. Member schools in states important for recruitment of student athletes and regular students. The Northeast is a critical region.

Finally, I could care less what the academic reputations are of other school's in the Tribe's conference. I don't want the Tribe to be the best football or hoops team among the nerd herd. I want the Tribe to be the best of the best. If that means playing other state schools that have 30,000 students, that is fine with me. Just beat them.

As noted earlier, five schools in the CAA don’t field football teams. Three or four of these programs tend to congregate at the top of the league. The Tribe record against these schools is now 4 - 6 this season. These programs are able to skew resources to men’s basketball. I won’t argue causation; I do think it’s not a coincidence. This structure will lend itself to seasons like this. Fortunately there is less disappointment than three games ago and three wins in March turns disappointment into a glorious year.

On rare occasions these discussions drift to other topics. I’ve never been responsible for this, but it does happen:). In response to above it’s worth noting that an alternate viewpoint is that W&M was not invited to join the CAA, but along with JMU and Towson (with an asterisk for a hiatus), was a party to its formation. The present league/other members had nothing to do with W&M’s membership. W&M belongs due to an earlier effort to shape its own destiny.

One nice thing about the league at this point is that the Tribe is reasonably competitive despite structural disadvantages. But there are a lot of warts. We can watch SOCON, Patriot League, America East, MAAC, and Big South basketball on television. The CAA, meanwhile remains on double secret probation. And if cable cutters are flocking to CAA tv, wouldn’t we have heard about it? If we’re inclined to look down our noses at the SOCON, we should at least acknowledge it may garner an at large bid before the CAA does. The best thing the CAA has going for it at this juncture are budding rivalries; some are tenuous.

CAA FCS football strength is legitimate. Data indicating CAA games generate more ticket sales or fan interest than Patriot League or SOCON games would be useful to know. The JMU game sells. Loss of the Delaware game to rotational scheduling is a negative. I don’t know how CAA membership factors into recruiting decisions. Do high school football players have the life long dream (or at least “safety dream”) of playing in the SEC of the FCS? My guess is that the academic reputation, annual FBS game and even new facilities are bigger draws. What is ironic of course is that a school need not be a member of the CAA to play CAA football. File for future reference.

Received an email this week indicating W&M has 500 students playing intercollegiate sports. I can be persuaded that competition with schools in the northeast could be a variable in the choice of college for some of these student-athletes. How many is another question. The issue is the overlap between the sports teams W&M fields and those fielded by, say, Hofstra and Northeastern. The impact may not be that great. I’m hard pressed to believe CAA membership factors into a selection decision by a non-athlete. The amount of publicity CAA athletics receives is marginal. If W&M hasn’t penetrated the consciousness of high school guidance counselors, the school is in more trouble than CAA membership can solve.

To give credit where credit is due, no members are on probation and no players’ shoes are exploding. House of cards? Shining city on a hill? Somewhere in between.
02-24-2019 03:27 PM
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ColonelEbirt Offline
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Post: #195
RE: MBB Disappointment
Can we please let this thread (especially under the current name) die?
02-24-2019 03:39 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #196
RE: MBB Disappointment
(02-24-2019 03:39 PM)ColonelEbirt Wrote:  Can we please let this thread (especially under the current name) die?
Yeah, it's about that time, isn't it.

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02-24-2019 05:39 PM
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ScottyB757 Offline
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Post: #197
RE: Random Complaints Thread
(01-14-2019 04:55 PM)TribalBeaver Wrote:  I have been a Tribe fan for, jeez, half my life now which has prompted me to post this but I have so disappointed in this team. It does not make sense to me how we are losing all the games we are. We are the deepest, and likely the most talented team in the conference. Every time we step on the court, we have the most talented player in Knight, the best shooter in the conference in Milon, the best pair of first years in Audige and Owens, and that does not even include the best all around player on our team, Pierce or the smartest guy on the court in Rowley.

Seems to be that players do not develop or improve over their time with the Tribe, we have a constant system that is great when we are not the most talented team but seems to hinder us the more talented our roster is, and we seem to never really adjust.

The above would point me towards coaching being the issue but maybe someone here can fill me in on what I am missing.

If you were at the Charleston game Thursday night, you saw the best shooter in the conference, and it wasn't Milon. It was the former arrow-shooter (thank God he quit doing that) Grant Riller. I love me some Tribe, and I've been a Tribe fan since 1980, but I can't remember when I've seen as pure a shooter as Riller in the building.
02-24-2019 06:38 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #198
RE: Random Complaints Thread
(02-24-2019 06:38 PM)ScottyB757 Wrote:  Grant Riller. I love me some Tribe, and I've been a Tribe fan since 1980, but I can't remember when I've seen as pure a shooter as Riller in the building.
Holy short memories... You make that post one year removed from the having the best shooter in all of college Basketball last year on your team. It's not opinion. It's a verified fact backed by evidence. If you called Riller potentially the best scorer you'd seen, id grant you that. Though that is very debatable. We had a pretty remarkable scorer and POY in Marcus. Best shooter ever through Kaplan? Not a chance.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2019 06:52 PM by mrjoolius.)
02-24-2019 06:43 PM
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Post: #199
RE: Random Complaints Thread
(02-24-2019 06:43 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  
(02-24-2019 06:38 PM)ScottyB757 Wrote:  Grant Riller. I love me some Tribe, and I've been a Tribe fan since 1980, but I can't remember when I've seen as pure a shooter as Riller in the building.
Holy short memories... You make that post one year removed from the having the best shooter in all of college Basketball last year on your team. It's not opinion. It's a verified fact backed by evidence. If you called Riller potentially the best scorer you'd seen, id grant you that. Though that is very debatable. We had a pretty remarkable scorer and POY in Marcus. Best shooter ever through Kaplan? Not a chance.

You're right, but I'm two Old Fashioneds into a Sunday afternoon...let's change that to "best shooter this season". Fair enough?
02-24-2019 07:13 PM
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Mrs. Got Ribe Offline
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Post: #200
RE: Random Complaints Thread
(02-24-2019 06:43 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  It's not opinion. It's a verified fact backed by evidence.

True that
02-24-2019 07:14 PM
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