(12-02-2018 01:57 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Football is football. Our current schemes (ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY) are extremely simplistic. Our coaches have better players than the other teams we play so they do not have to reinvent the wheel. Often D3/D2 coaches have more complex schemes because they can't rely on their players' athleticism. Keep in mind that Houston was coaching HS 10 years ago.

The biggest different would be recruiting but like many have said here JMU recruits itself.

I just don't see what reason we would have to go with a D3 guy. If someone like Hunt or Cignetti is possible for us to land, then why go for a guy who's only shown he can win in D3 when we could go with a guy who's shown he can win at an FCS where it's much harder to win than JMU?

(12-02-2018 02:05 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 01:57 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Football is football. Our current schemes (ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY) are extremely simplistic. Our coaches have better players than the other teams we play so they do not have to reinvent the wheel. Often D3/D2 coaches have more complex schemes because they can't rely on their players' athleticism. Keep in mind that Houston was coaching HS 10 years ago.

The biggest different would be recruiting but like many have said here JMU recruits itself.

I just don't see what reason we would have to go with a D3 guy. If someone like Hunt or Cignetti is possible for us to land, then why go for a guy who's only shown he can win in D3 when we could go with a guy who's shown he can win at an FCS where it's much harder to win than JMU?

I agree. But I also don't think that being a lower level Coach should preclude you from being considered. We need the best candidate possible.

Also it pisses me off when people assume that the teaching/schematics of D3/D2 football are inferior to Div 1. It's not remotely accurate.

(12-02-2018 02:36 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 02:05 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 01:57 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Football is football. Our current schemes (ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY) are extremely simplistic. Our coaches have better players than the other teams we play so they do not have to reinvent the wheel. Often D3/D2 coaches have more complex schemes because they can't rely on their players' athleticism. Keep in mind that Houston was coaching HS 10 years ago.

The biggest different would be recruiting but like many have said here JMU recruits itself.

I just don't see what reason we would have to go with a D3 guy. If someone like Hunt or Cignetti is possible for us to land, then why go for a guy who's only shown he can win in D3 when we could go with a guy who's shown he can win at an FCS where it's much harder to win than JMU?

I agree. But I also don't think that being a lower level Coach should preclude you from being considered. We need the best candidate possible.

Also it pisses me off when people assume that the teaching/schematics of D3/D2 football are inferior to Div 1. It's not remotely accurate.

I mostly agree with you but having watched quite a bit of D3 football because I had a brother who played at a D3 school, I will say this. If you have slightly better talent, it's much easier to scheme at D3. Almost without exception, the other team has a few players who are just super easy to exploit and you just hammer them all day. It might be a corner who can't cover or an OLB who can't set the edge or a left tackle who can't pass block at all ... whatever. Every D3 team has them.

This can happen to a certain extent at any level of football, but not nearly as much at FCS compared to D3. You don't get those extreme disparities where guys are just completely exploitable. It's pretty rare. There's a lot more parity at this level so it does leave me with some unanswered questions on how good of an Xs and Os coach that candidate really is.

(12-02-2018 02:36 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 02:05 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 01:57 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Football is football. Our current schemes (ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY) are extremely simplistic. Our coaches have better players than the other teams we play so they do not have to reinvent the wheel. Often D3/D2 coaches have more complex schemes because they can't rely on their players' athleticism. Keep in mind that Houston was coaching HS 10 years ago.

The biggest different would be recruiting but like many have said here JMU recruits itself.

I just don't see what reason we would have to go with a D3 guy. If someone like Hunt or Cignetti is possible for us to land, then why go for a guy who's only shown he can win in D3 when we could go with a guy who's shown he can win at an FCS where it's much harder to win than JMU?

I agree. But I also don't think that being a lower level Coach should preclude you from being considered. We need the best candidate possible.

Also it pisses me off when people assume that the teaching/schematics of D3/D2 football are inferior to Div 1. It's not remotely accurate.

I dont think anyone did say that the teaching and schematics were inferior. I think people including myself have said with so many other options, why go the DIII route? A proven FCS winner will be a better candidate than a proven DIII winner 10 out of 10 times bc they are already on our level and there will be less of a learning curve.

For example, while football is football, recruiting is totally different on the D1 level. DIII is more laid back, no scholarships, fewer limitations on numbers, so the coach making the jump would have to get accustomed very quickly.

Obviously it can and has been done, but I'd rather fully exhaust our D1 options before moving down the ladder.

(12-02-2018 02:46 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 02:36 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 02:05 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 01:57 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Football is football. Our current schemes (ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY) are extremely simplistic. Our coaches have better players than the other teams we play so they do not have to reinvent the wheel. Often D3/D2 coaches have more complex schemes because they can't rely on their players' athleticism. Keep in mind that Houston was coaching HS 10 years ago.

The biggest different would be recruiting but like many have said here JMU recruits itself.

I just don't see what reason we would have to go with a D3 guy. If someone like Hunt or Cignetti is possible for us to land, then why go for a guy who's only shown he can win in D3 when we could go with a guy who's shown he can win at an FCS where it's much harder to win than JMU?

I agree. But I also don't think that being a lower level Coach should preclude you from being considered. We need the best candidate possible.

Also it pisses me off when people assume that the teaching/schematics of D3/D2 football are inferior to Div 1. It's not remotely accurate.

I dont think anyone did say that the teaching and schematics were inferior. I think people including myself have said with so many other options, why go the DIII route? A proven FCS winner will be a better candidate than a proven DIII winner 10 out of 10 times bc they are already on our level and there will be less of a learning curve.

For example, while football is football, recruiting is totally different on the D1 level. DIII is more laid back, no scholarships, fewer limitations on numbers, so the coach making the jump would have to get accustomed very quickly.

Obviously it can and has been done, but I'd rather fully exhaust our D1 options before moving down the ladder.

That's a good point. Also, with so many partial scholarships at the FCS level, you have to put together a jigsaw puzzle to make the roster work under the allocated 63 scholarships, and that has to be a pain in the ass. You don't have to worry about that at D3 or FBS.

(12-02-2018 02:36 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 02:05 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 01:57 PM)DiceRogerLion Wrote:  Football is football. Our current schemes (ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY) are extremely simplistic. Our coaches have better players than the other teams we play so they do not have to reinvent the wheel. Often D3/D2 coaches have more complex schemes because they can't rely on their players' athleticism. Keep in mind that Houston was coaching HS 10 years ago.

The biggest different would be recruiting but like many have said here JMU recruits itself.

I just don't see what reason we would have to go with a D3 guy. If someone like Hunt or Cignetti is possible for us to land, then why go for a guy who's only shown he can win in D3 when we could go with a guy who's shown he can win at an FCS where it's much harder to win than JMU?

I agree. But I also don't think that being a lower level Coach should preclude you from being considered. We need the best candidate possible.

Also it pisses me off when people assume that the teaching/schematics of D3/D2 football are inferior to Div 1. It's not remotely accurate.

Agreed

The AD has to weigh the risk of the hire. If the AD hires a DIII coach and things don't go as planned, oh no. Same for a P5 hiring a fcs coach. Not fair, not right but it is reality.

(12-02-2018 03:05 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  The AD has to weigh the risk of the hire. If the AD hires a DIII coach and things don't go as planned, oh no. Same for a P5 hiring a fcs coach. Not fair, not right but it is reality.

Would Bama or OSU give serious consideration to an FCS coach, even a Houston or Klieman? Of course not ... they have the pick of the liter at the FBS level.

JMU looking at D III would be the same thing.

You guys are either way too young or I'm way too old. Gerry Faust was made Notre Dame's head coach coming directly from Moeller High School in Cincinnati, Ohio, where he tallied a mark of 178–23–2 and won four High School Football National Championships. I'll admit he did struggle as the Fighting Irish HC from 81 - 85.

Again, it has a lot to do with what caliber of staff a D3 coach would be able to recruit. Most could not assemble a quality FCS top level staff. They just don't have the relationships.

(12-02-2018 03:16 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  Again, it has a lot to do with what caliber of staff a D3 coach would be able to recruit. Most could not assemble a quality FCS top level staff. They just don't have the relationships.

Does anyone seriously think a Trott, or even Shankweiler type assistant would even consider working for a DIII guy?

At best, we would see assistants like Withers brought in, and even that would be a stretch, because he had relationships with those younger guys from OSU and elsewhere.

(12-02-2018 03:27 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 03:16 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  Again, it has a lot to do with what caliber of staff a D3 coach would be able to recruit. Most could not assemble a quality FCS top level staff. They just don't have the relationships.

Does anyone seriously think a Trott, or even Shankweiler type assistant would even consider working for a DIII guy?

At best, we would see assistants like Withers brought in, and even that would be a stretch, because he had relationships with those younger guys from OSU and elsewhere.

I hear you, however, in EW's case, he clearly was after $$$ for himself and not his staff. He was a greedy fart. I honestly believe he was selling JB on the amount of money he could save JMU. He also completely dominated the DC and made absolutely sure the defense we ran was his deal.

(12-02-2018 11:06 AM)dukes5 Wrote:  Having not been on the board for the previous coach search, 2 questions: 1) was Houston on anyone's radar? 2) how did we keep recruits?

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I didn’t see a response to your questions.

To your #1, Houston’s name was not a front-runner. He was known, he had upset South Carolina at Cit, and gotten them into the playoffs, but his selection was a bit of a surprise.

To your #2, JMU rehired a coach EW had just fired. The rehire was a part-time gig to help maintain continuity with current players and those recruited. The rehired coach was a JMU alum.

(12-02-2018 11:25 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 11:06 AM)dukes5 Wrote:  Having not been on the board for the previous coach search, 2 questions: 1) was Houston on anyone's radar? 2) how did we keep recruits?

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I didn’t see a response to your questions.

To your #1, Houston’s name was not a front-runner. He was known, he had upset South Carolina at Cit, and gotten them into the playoffs, but his selection was a bit of a surprise.

To your #2, JMU rehired a coach EW had just fired. The rehire was a part-time gig to help maintain continuity with current players and those recruited. The rehired coach was a JMU alum.

Thanks! Any idea who will take on the recruit retaiment role this time?


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(12-02-2018 11:43 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 11:25 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 11:06 AM)dukes5 Wrote:  Having not been on the board for the previous coach search, 2 questions: 1) was Houston on anyone's radar? 2) how did we keep recruits?

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I didn’t see a response to your questions.

To your #1, Houston’s name was not a front-runner. He was known, he had upset South Carolina at Cit, and gotten them into the playoffs, but his selection was a bit of a surprise.

To your #2, JMU rehired a coach EW had just fired. The rehire was a part-time gig to help maintain continuity with current players and those recruited. The rehired coach was a JMU alum.

Thanks! Any idea who will take on the recruit retaiment role this time?


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Not a clue. JMU’s OC/DC and other assistant coaches are still on contract, so they should be doing what we pay them to do, even if they are planning to join MH. This makes it all that much more important JMU names the next head coach without delay.

Anyone know if the assistants have buyout clauses in their contracts? If so, any guess on how much we would net on that?

(12-02-2018 12:40 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 12:23 PM)JMUsince89 Wrote:  Gilenwater was DC at JMU when we won the 04 championship. He coached Akeem Jordan, an NFL linebacker at Philly and KCr. Hardly would call him just a HS coach, he just didn't want to go away from local area after he was DC at Furman for 5 yrs

He wasn't the DC when we won in 04. He was the linebackers coach. He didnt take over as DC until 09 when Barlow left before spring practice started.

But yes, he was on staff and coached Jordan.

I'm pretty sure he was the OL position coach 06 through 08.

(12-03-2018 01:06 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 12:40 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 12:23 PM)JMUsince89 Wrote:  Gilenwater was DC at JMU when we won the 04 championship. He coached Akeem Jordan, an NFL linebacker at Philly and KCr. Hardly would call him just a HS coach, he just didn't want to go away from local area after he was DC at Furman for 5 yrs

He wasn't the DC when we won in 04. He was the linebackers coach. He didnt take over as DC until 09 when Barlow left before spring practice started.

But yes, he was on staff and coached Jordan.

I'm pretty sure he was the OL position coach 06 through 08.

No, Malone coached OL then. Gilenwater coached LBs until taking over as DC.

Gilenwater played OL at Bridgewater though, maybe that's what you're thinking of?

(12-02-2018 11:06 AM)dukes5 Wrote:  Having not been on the board for the previous coach search, 2 questions: 1) was Houston on anyone's radar? 2) how did we keep recruits?

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1) nope. Neither was Withers. Both hires “came out of nowhere”.
2) we kept recruits thanks to John Bowers coming back as an interim recruiting coordinator. Mike Houston ended up hiring him as an assistant after all for the 2016 season. He was a good coach. It’s too bad he left but you can’t blame him for wanting to watch his son play at Cal.

(12-02-2018 11:43 PM)dukes5 Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 11:25 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 11:06 AM)dukes5 Wrote:  Having not been on the board for the previous coach search, 2 questions: 1) was Houston on anyone's radar? 2) how did we keep recruits?

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I didn’t see a response to your questions.

To your #1, Houston’s name was not a front-runner. He was known, he had upset South Carolina at Cit, and gotten them into the playoffs, but his selection was a bit of a surprise.

To your #2, JMU rehired a coach EW had just fired. The rehire was a part-time gig to help maintain continuity with current players and those recruited. The rehired coach was a JMU alum.

Thanks! Any idea who will take on the recruit retaiment role this time?


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That’s very likely what Jeff Bourne will be announcing in his press conference today at 2:30. Tune in.