(11-05-2018 02:14 PM)dukesfan4010 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 01:42 PM)Purple Wrote:  [quote='jmufan2008' pid='15636773' dateline='1541426948']
I would compare Ben to Cam Newton as far as how important his swagger and letting him play 100% his game is to how good he can be. If those two players are feeling it and are in the zone, they're nearly unstoppable. But, get them out of rhythm and they fall apart. I think that as long as Ben was feeling good and able to take off downfield with confidence, he was our best option and was playing well. Once the coaches had him cut back on his running (or he lost confidence in himself and stopped keeping the ball on options) and had a couple bad games, I don't know if he is CURRENTLY the best QB on the team. I think talent-wise, Ben is solidly above Cole just because of the options he has at his disposal; however, Ben's attitude and confidence play a BIG part in his game and are currently a detriment. I still wouldn't say Cole has put himself solidly in first or played amazingly, but he played well enough that the coaches will probably have him start moving forward.

When and where was Ben's "attitude" a "detriment?"

People consistently nag on Dinucci for his "antics" or the swagger he plays with but fail to hold other players accountable for the same things. How many of you were up in arms when Riley shushed the crowd at NCST after a touchdown?

I don't think Ben is a world beater by any means but i 100% think he was good enough to get us to Frisco. He is being constantly compared to Bryan Schor (play and how they carry themselves) and critiqued because he is different.

If we want to be in Frisco with Ben, we have to let him be himself. They reeled him in after Norfolk state and tried to make him something he's not instead of catering to his skill set.

If we do go with Cole and he can limit turnovers and manage the game I'm all for it. But the Cole apologists beating their chests after 4 turnovers and a good bit of meaningless yards is humerous. Dinucci has 4 turnovers in a game and this site would crash.
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Totally agree. I don't get the unearned love for Johnson. And I liked DiNucci's swagger. Let him run and make some plays. This is college football - you don't need to pass for 300 yards to win a college game.

The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

He had 4 turnovers. And the people who have been crowing for him since the season started don't know as much about football as the head coach. That's why I was fine with him picking the quarterback instead of pretending to be a know it all.

(11-05-2018 06:31 PM)JacksonHall Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

He had 4 turnovers. And the people who have been crowing for him since the season started don't know as much about football as the head coach. That's why I was fine with him picking the quarterback instead of pretending to be a know it all.

He also had 3 TD drives and opened up the offense. If we hadn't been in such a hole we might have had the ability to commit more to the ground game.

As someone who was a CJ fan preseason, I always maintained I liked Cole more, but I don't know anyone crowing for CJ to start over DiNucci until Elon, because Nooch was playing great. But he lost to Elon and almost lost to SBU. I want the Dukes to win, and if that means CJ never plays, fine. But Nooch was playing poorly and CJ came in and played better.

Wonder if the O-lineman like CJ better? If he gets along better and has friends along the line, perhaps there will be a motivational factor in playing better as a unit. Never know.

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

The absurdity doesn't even need to be pointed out...but just for the hell of it:

First, the love for Johnson existed wayyy before he ever played this season. All you guys have been clammoring for him to start since week one and have been pissing and moaning since Houston named DiNucci the starter; but the claim that the love is due to him "almost" bringing us back is even more hilarious. Almost winning is called losing. He came in and immediately through a pick 6 making the deficit even worse. Then he proceeded to throw 2 more picks and he lost a fumble. His yards were against a team protecting a three score lead who didnt play press coverage for the entire game. If the guy came in and just tore it up, it would be a different story. And I would be ecstatic about it bc that would mean we would have a better offense going into playoff time. I dont have any biases, I want the best player to play to make the team better.

And the "love" for DiNucci has mainly been due to him winning games. Remember, we were tied for first in the CAA going into this game. No onr said he was perfect, just good enough at the time. Some of us just believed that changing the QB for statistical reasons was unwarranted bc the problems stemmed with the Oline, the backfield, and the WRs. Once Johnson went in on Saturday, all those problems remained!

If you want proof of those problems, look at the excuses you all made for Johnson: his pick wasnt his fault bc the reciever ran a bad route, his other pick wasnt his fault bc he got hit bc the line cant block, a second time he got hit and fumbled bc the line cant block, the WRs dropped too many balls. Its not Johnson's fault! Hmmmmm...

I agree with some of that, mainly bc our offense has issues that a new QB cant, and clearly didnt, fix!

I said it once and Ill say it again, getting Jackson and Marshall back, and giving more carries to Percy would impact the offense more than DiNucci or Johnson.

(11-05-2018 06:41 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:31 PM)JacksonHall Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

He had 4 turnovers. And the people who have been crowing for him since the season started don't know as much about football as the head coach. That's why I was fine with him picking the quarterback instead of pretending to be a know it all.

He also had 3 TD drives and opened up the offense. If we hadn't been in such a hole we might have had the ability to commit more to the ground game.

As someone who was a CJ fan preseason, I always maintained I liked Cole more, but I don't know anyone crowing for CJ to start over DiNucci until Elon, because Nooch was playing great. But he lost to Elon and almost lost to SBU. I want the Dukes to win, and if that means CJ never plays, fine. But Nooch was playing poorly and CJ came in and played better.

The problems with this team seem to me to he beyond quarterback play. The OC has gotten worse in his play calling every year he's been here, the line can't block for pass or run, receivers drop balls, and the trio of running backs are overrated. But if switching out quarterbacks miraculously changes all that and leads to wins, I'm all for it.

(11-05-2018 06:41 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:31 PM)JacksonHall Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

He had 4 turnovers. And the people who have been crowing for him since the season started don't know as much about football as the head coach. That's why I was fine with him picking the quarterback instead of pretending to be a know it all.

He also had 3 TD drives and opened up the offense. If we hadn't been in such a hole we might have had the ability to commit more to the ground game.

As someone who was a CJ fan preseason, I always maintained I liked Cole more, but I don't know anyone crowing for CJ to start over DiNucci until Elon, because Nooch was playing great. But he lost to Elon and almost lost to SBU. I want the Dukes to win, and if that means CJ never plays, fine. But Nooch was playing poorly and CJ came in and played better.

I also have been saying since the preseason I would've preferred Cole given the choice. I haven't seen anything to change my mind so far this season. Given the personnel on this year's roster I feel he gives the offense more options. I think I get why the coach's chose DiNucci and that's fine. I just disagree. Have a feeling I'll get a chance to see if I'm right this Saturday.

Don't know why this subject has drawn out so much animosity from some on this board. Seems to me this place literally exists for these types of debates.

(11-05-2018 06:53 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

The absurdity doesn't even need to be pointed out...but just for the hell of it:

First, the love for Johnson existed wayyy before he ever played this season. All you guys have been clammoring for him to start since week one and have been pissing and moaning since Houston named DiNucci the starter;.

?? Who would say that when we were winning big early? Even I said DiNucci was the right choice after his NCState performance. So I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

Do you really not think the team played better with Cole in? Did you watch the game?

As a Redskins fan this reminds me of the Kirk Cousins vs. Alex Smith debate from the offseason. Hate on it if you want but this is just from what I’ve seen so far. Points can be made from both perspectives:

Kirk Cousins (Cole):
1. Gunslinger
2. Going to turn the ball over more
3. Not as mobile, but efficient runner
4. Going to throw for a lot more yards
5. Going to have 1-2 plays a game where what the hell was that?

Alex Smith (Ben):
1. Scared to pull the trigger and let it rip
2. Takes care of the ball more often than not
3. Quick, deceptively fast
4. Probably won’t throw for more than 200 yards a game
5. Going to have 1-2 plays a game where you’ve played games as a vet and should know better

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:53 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

The absurdity doesn't even need to be pointed out...but just for the hell of it:

First, the love for Johnson existed wayyy before he ever played this season. All you guys have been clammoring for him to start since week one and have been pissing and moaning since Houston named DiNucci the starter;.

?? Who would say that when we were winning big early? Even I said DiNucci was the right choice after his NCState performance. So I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

Do you really not think the team played better with Cole in? Did you watch the game?

Define "better" I think "not as awful" may be more accurate. However, 4 turnovers with CJ is still pretty terrible and Dinucci only played for 2 series so I dont think its fair to say the offense improved

(11-06-2018 07:54 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:53 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

The absurdity doesn't even need to be pointed out...but just for the hell of it:

First, the love for Johnson existed wayyy before he ever played this season. All you guys have been clammoring for him to start since week one and have been pissing and moaning since Houston named DiNucci the starter;.

?? Who would say that when we were winning big early? Even I said DiNucci was the right choice after his NCState performance. So I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

Do you really not think the team played better with Cole in? Did you watch the game?

Define "better" I think "not as awful" may be more accurate. However, 4 turnovers with CJ is still pretty terrible and Dinucci only played for 2 series so I dont think its fair to say the offense improved

It absolutely is fair. Despite his turnovers (which are bad and I'll make no excuse for those), our offense opened up finally. Cole was able to make the throws that Ben didn't or couldn't. He threw receivers open versus waiting for them to get open. He was able to throw mid to deep balls. It also changed our playcalling to be more open. Yes he made mistakes but it was his first real game experience of the season. I am VERY confident he'll cut down on the turnovers if he plays against URI.

(11-06-2018 09:40 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-06-2018 07:54 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:53 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

The absurdity doesn't even need to be pointed out...but just for the hell of it:

First, the love for Johnson existed wayyy before he ever played this season. All you guys have been clammoring for him to start since week one and have been pissing and moaning since Houston named DiNucci the starter;.

?? Who would say that when we were winning big early? Even I said DiNucci was the right choice after his NCState performance. So I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

Do you really not think the team played better with Cole in? Did you watch the game?

Define "better" I think "not as awful" may be more accurate. However, 4 turnovers with CJ is still pretty terrible and Dinucci only played for 2 series so I dont think its fair to say the offense improved

It absolutely is fair. Despite his turnovers (which are bad and I'll make no excuse for those), our offense opened up finally. Cole was able to make the throws that Ben didn't or couldn't. He threw receivers open versus waiting for them to get open. He was able to throw mid to deep balls. It also changed our playcalling to be more open. Yes he made mistakes but it was his first real game experience of the season. I am VERY confident he'll cut down on the turnovers if he plays against URI.

Offense opened up because we were down 3 scores. Receivers were open because the defense went to a soft, prevent zone. Playcalling was open because it had no choice but to be.

I hope if it's Cole he comes out Saturday, takes care of the ball, and Donnie lets him sling it

I'm shocked you guys are breezing past his turnovers like they were no big deal. When DiNucci turned the ball over the first time there were guys already screaming for Cole to come in. And then Cole turns it over and over and over and over again and now it's no big deal? You can't have it both ways.
I'm not in bed with either guy, so I could care less which guy it is. But one thing's for certain: our QB cannot turn the ball over. Period. If we are going to have any shot at making noise in the playoffs, we need a QB that isn't going to bury us. We don't need a superstar QB to win. We just need a guy that can keep the offense moving forward. The QB position is not the only problem we have at offense.
I've said it before, but I think this week is an open competition. The player who practices best will be our QB this weekend. I have no clue who it will be. It's time to support either guy and stop whining about the guy that isn't starting. Same should go for every position on offense. No job should be safe right now. Houston has said that this team needs to start playing the way this program has been built. Right now they aren't doing that and there's no denying that.

(11-06-2018 09:40 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-06-2018 07:54 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 09:02 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:53 PM)TheDuke Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 06:18 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  The love for Johnson is not unearned. He came in and almost brought us back. If we didn't spot them 14 we woulda won.

The love for DiNucci however is despite his poor play. Who's being unreasonable here?

The absurdity doesn't even need to be pointed out...but just for the hell of it:

First, the love for Johnson existed wayyy before he ever played this season. All you guys have been clammoring for him to start since week one and have been pissing and moaning since Houston named DiNucci the starter;.

?? Who would say that when we were winning big early? Even I said DiNucci was the right choice after his NCState performance. So I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

Do you really not think the team played better with Cole in? Did you watch the game?

Define "better" I think "not as awful" may be more accurate. However, 4 turnovers with CJ is still pretty terrible and Dinucci only played for 2 series so I dont think its fair to say the offense improved

It absolutely is fair. Despite his turnovers (which are bad and I'll make no excuse for those), our offense opened up finally. Cole was able to make the throws that Ben didn't or couldn't. He threw receivers open versus waiting for them to get open. He was able to throw mid to deep balls. It also changed our playcalling to be more open. Yes he made mistakes but it was his first real game experience of the season. I am VERY confident he'll cut down on the turnovers if he plays against URI.

The fact we were down 28-3 4 minutes into the third quarter changed our play calling. His pick 6 was arguably a bigger blow than dinucci's. People saying his pick in the endzone wasnt a big deal fail to realize that there was still 15 seconds left on the unh side of the field. CJs longest pass of the day was 35 yards and that was only once so the rest were between 10-25 yards so its not like he was tossing bombs all over the place. Im not calling for Dinucci at all just saying I dont think Cole is the answer or significantly better

(11-06-2018 09:53 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  I'm shocked you guys are breezing past his turnovers like they were no big deal. When DiNucci turned the ball over the first time there were guys already screaming for Cole to come in. And then Cole turns it over and over and over and over again and now it's no big deal? You can't have it both ways.
I'm not in bed with either guy, so I could care less which guy it is. But one thing's for certain: our QB cannot turn the ball over. Period. If we are going to have any shot at making noise in the playoffs, we need a QB that isn't going to bury us. We don't need a guy like Schor either. We just need a guy that can keep the offense moving forward. The QB position is not the only problem we have at offense.
I've said it before, but I think this week is an open competition. The player who practices best will be our QB this weekend. I have no clue who it will be. It's time to support either guy and stop whining about the guy that isn't starting. Same should go for every position on offense. No job should be safe right now. Houston has said that this team needs to start playing the way this program has been built. Right now they aren't doing that and there's no denying that.

The starting QB has been decided but not announced in my opinion.

Yesterday per the DNR Houston said, “We’ll play the quarterback that gives us the best chance to win on Saturday,”

When Houston was asked if the two signal-callers are in an open competition ahead Saturday’s meeting with the Rams, the coach said, “I’ve answered, the question,” referring to his previous answer stating the team will use the quarterback that gives them the best chance to win.


His response to who would start is the same response he gave last week when he chose to play Cole. He felt he gave us the best chance to win.

Three straight weeks the offense was stagnant. Defenses had caught up to an offense that was not a threat with no intermediate or deep passing game.

Now I will say the defense was not as good as usual last week, but there's a big difference between off par for 1 week, versus being off par for three weeks with no reason to expect significant improvement.

Just block better after three weeks of stagnant offense is not likely going to make a material improvement.

(11-06-2018 09:53 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  I'm shocked you guys are breezing past his turnovers like they were no big deal. When DiNucci turned the ball over the first time there were guys already screaming for Cole to come in. And then Cole turns it over and over and over and over again and now it's no big deal? You can't have it both ways.
I'm not in bed with either guy, so I could care less which guy it is. But one thing's for certain: our QB cannot turn the ball over. Period. If we are going to have any shot at making noise in the playoffs, we need a QB that isn't going to bury us. We don't need a superstar QB to win. We just need a guy that can keep the offense moving forward. The QB position is not the only problem we have at offense.
I've said it before, but I think this week is an open competition. The player who practices best will be our QB this weekend. I have no clue who it will be. It's time to support either guy and stop whining about the guy that isn't starting. Same should go for every position on offense. No job should be safe right now. Houston has said that this team needs to start playing the way this program has been built. Right now they aren't doing that and there's no denying that.

Did you also notice the drops on some big plays?

(11-05-2018 11:42 PM)Jmufan2018 Wrote:  As a Redskins fan this reminds me of the Kirk Cousins vs. Alex Smith debate from the offseason. Hate on it if you want but this is just from what I’ve seen so far. Points can be made from both perspectives:

Kirk Cousins (Cole):
1. Gunslinger
2. Going to turn the ball over more
3. Not as mobile, but efficient runner
4. Going to throw for a lot more yards
5. Going to have 1-2 plays a game where what the hell was that?

Alex Smith (Ben):
1. Scared to pull the trigger and let it rip
2. Takes care of the ball more often than not
3. Quick, deceptively fast
4. Probably won’t throw for more than 200 yards a game
5. Going to have 1-2 plays a game where you’ve played games as a vet and should know better

This actually reminds me more of tweeners yammering about which boy band singer is cuter.

(11-06-2018 09:53 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  I'm shocked you guys are breezing past his turnovers like they were no big deal. When DiNucci turned the ball over the first time there were guys already screaming for Cole to come in. And then Cole turns it over and over and over and over again and now it's no big deal? You can't have it both ways.
I'm not in bed with either guy, so I could care less which guy it is. But one thing's for certain: our QB cannot turn the ball over. Period. If we are going to have any shot at making noise in the playoffs, we need a QB that isn't going to bury us. We don't need a superstar QB to win. We just need a guy that can keep the offense moving forward. The QB position is not the only problem we have at offense.
I've said it before, but I think this week is an open competition. The player who practices best will be our QB this weekend. I have no clue who it will be. It's time to support either guy and stop whining about the guy that isn't starting. Same should go for every position on offense. No job should be safe right now. Houston has said that this team needs to start playing the way this program has been built. Right now they aren't doing that and there's no denying that.

Agreed. With defense and special teams being the clear strengths, a game manager who doesn't turn the ball overy is what is needed at quarterback. This offense looks unfixable.

there is really only a couple people clamoring for more Dinucci.

i have been consistent since about Week 3 or 4 on this.
I saw flaws then in Dinucci that have now been readily exposed with more tape on him and better competition. Never once did I say "Cole is better....I'm team Cole....Cole for President"

it was simply a matter of what I saw in Dinucci. And that was not a championship caliber QB/offense with him in the game. For that reason, i was strongly in favor of a change. To Cole OR Gage.

That is the only way you find out if the problems are at QB....or elsewhere. Because all other options (changes at RB/WR/TE, even OL and playcalling) have been made without positive results.

there was nothing left to change except QB.

So here we are. Cole deserves a shot at first team reps in practice. And to start the game against URI. If things still don't get better, then Houston, we have a much bigger problem.