(08-22-2018 10:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If we really wanted secure borders, we could get them a lot more easily if we didn't weaponize ICE and CBP against minorities, provide a reasonable mechanism for people fleeing violence and for family reunification, and helped other countries mitigate their security and human rights issues. Go ahead build a wall, but know it won't do any good.

I agree. But I want to see the problem actually solved. Unfortunately, we have two political parties who both want to keep the problem going in order to feed red meat to their respective bases.
Here's the way I would do it:
1) First, we have to deal with everybody already here illegally. If they are here and working, they and their families get permanent guest worker status. I've seen it called a red card, so I'll call it that. Red cards entitle you to stay here as long as you meet certain standards, make progress in learning English, and stay out of criminal activities. There is no path to citizenship, without going back home and doing it by the numbers, but you can stay here as long as you keep your nose clean.
2) Anybody who serves in the military and gets an honorable discharge becomes eligible for citizenship.
3) The process of granting legal entry and citizenship is streamlined and numbers increased significantly. If you have a useful skill and are not a terrorist or criminal, you get in.
4) The only way to quiet the immigration pressure is to make things better back home, so make that a big part of our foreign policy.
5) Never fight a war that we don't intend to win. Fighting a war wit a hand tied behind our back guarantees a lengthy quagmire that produces one product--refuges by the thousands.

Agree with you on all of this. But we need three additional things:
6) Build the wall! Make it more difficult to get in.
7) Figure out a way to allow employers to easily vet the legal status. There is a system, but it historically has not been reliable.
8) Throw those employers in jail who flaunt the system. Its real easy to simply do the I-9. They aren't required to test the documents, just obtain copies.
We need more legal and less illegal immigration.

I'm just not sure how much good the wall will do. And we definitely need to do 8) before 9). Right now we ave people wanting 9) without 8). And that puts employers in an impossible situation. The red card would be self-verifying. You have one or you don't.

(08-22-2018 10:53 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:51 AM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:49 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  OMG, do you really think DJT hasn't been committing financial crimes and tax fraud throughout his entire life?
And remember, we don't know what Trump's finances look like because he was never vetted. This is different and its completely appropriate for information hidden from the public at the time of the election to be used in impeachment proceedings.
There's a difference between something that politically will rise to impeachment in today's political climate and a felony that warrants imprisonment after leaving office. The second is a basic guarantee unless Trump is succeeded by a Republican President (which would almost have to be in an impeachment scenario). Quite frankly, the most likely way Trump avoids prison (other than fleeing to Russia) is to actually be impeached and have Pence pardon him.

I would venture to guess that Trump's taxes have been pretty thoroughly vetted by the IRS, who are the experts at doing so.

What felony do you think Trump has committed?

Conspiracy theorist

He beat their anointed leader, their grouped media, their deep state, their massive $$ advantage and they were surprised.

(08-22-2018 10:53 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:51 AM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:49 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  OMG, do you really think DJT hasn't been committing financial crimes and tax fraud throughout his entire life?
And remember, we don't know what Trump's finances look like because he was never vetted. This is different and its completely appropriate for information hidden from the public at the time of the election to be used in impeachment proceedings.
There's a difference between something that politically will rise to impeachment in today's political climate and a felony that warrants imprisonment after leaving office. The second is a basic guarantee unless Trump is succeeded by a Republican President (which would almost have to be in an impeachment scenario). Quite frankly, the most likely way Trump avoids prison (other than fleeing to Russia) is to actually be impeached and have Pence pardon him.

I would venture to guess that Trump's taxes have been pretty thoroughly vetted by the IRS, who are the experts at doing so.

What felony do you think Trump has committed?

Conspiracy theorist

He beat their anointed leader, their grouped media, their deep state, their massive $$ advantage and they were surprised.

Yes he did! F all the left wing crybabies

(08-22-2018 08:52 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 08:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 08:32 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Triggered much? A simple click on foxnews.com and I can clearly see a story about Manafort and Gates just under the Molie Tibbetts story. MSNBC is 100% trump bashing, but CNN features Mollie Tibbetts, Manafort, and Aretha Franklin.

Get your panties out of a wad, its not even 10am yet.

10 years from now, will American's even know who Mollie Tibbets was? I think her murder was tragic, but there is no way its the major news story of the day. The convictions of Manafort and Cohen are HUGE news stories... stories with far-reaching implications on this Presidency and future ones, as well. Fox established itself as the Republican News Network, but now its taking it even further. They are Donald Trump's personal news channel... truly state news.

I'm sorry, when was Cohen's trial?

Maybe you will care when an illegal gets around to murdering a young female in your family. It's a pretty damn big story when this happens in Iowa. This isn't Cali, Texas, NM, Arizona, it's middle-America Iowa.

Cohen, Manafort- Trump voters don't give a **** unless Mueller can prove the two of them acted WITH TRUMP AND RUSSIA to steal the 2016 election. It's been 18 months and Mueller is at the plate 0-2 in the bottom of the 9th with two out. All he has managed to do is foul off a couple of 100 mph fastballs.

That is true, Cali and other lib states are used to their “special immigrant citizens’” murdering people. Hopefully Mollie Tibbetts was not murdered in vain. Build the wall.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(08-22-2018 11:03 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If we really wanted secure borders, we could get them a lot more easily if we didn't weaponize ICE and CBP against minorities, provide a reasonable mechanism for people fleeing violence and for family reunification, and helped other countries mitigate their security and human rights issues. Go ahead build a wall, but know it won't do any good.

I agree. But I want to see the problem actually solved. Unfortunately, we have two political parties who both want to keep the problem going in order to feed red meat to their respective bases.
Here's the way I would do it:
1) First, we have to deal with everybody already here illegally. If they are here and working, they and their families get permanent guest worker status. I've seen it called a red card, so I'll call it that. Red cards entitle you to stay here as long as you meet certain standards, make progress in learning English, and stay out of criminal activities. There is no path to citizenship, without going back home and doing it by the numbers, but you can stay here as long as you keep your nose clean.
2) Anybody who serves in the military and gets an honorable discharge becomes eligible for citizenship.
3) The process of granting legal entry and citizenship is streamlined and numbers increased significantly. If you have a useful skill and are not a terrorist or criminal, you get in.
4) The only way to quiet the immigration pressure is to make things better back home, so make that a big part of our foreign policy.
5) Never fight a war that we don't intend to win. Fighting a war wit a hand tied behind our back guarantees a lengthy quagmire that produces one product--refuges by the thousands.

Agree with you on all of this. But we need three additional things:
6) Build the wall! Make it more difficult to get in.
7) Figure out a way to allow employers to easily vet the legal status. There is a system, but it historically has not been reliable.
8) Throw those employers in jail who flaunt the system. Its real easy to simply do the I-9. They aren't required to test the documents, just obtain copies.
We need more legal and less illegal immigration.

I'm just not sure how much good the wall will do. And we definitely need to do 8) before 9). Right now we ave people wanting 9) without 8). And that puts employers in an impossible situation. The red card would be self-verifying. You have one or you don't.

The wall in San Diego cut the number of people caught trying to cross by 90%.

It has been proven that walls work.

They've forced a lot of the illegals to cross in Arizona. We need to finish California and do Arizona. Then do New Mexico. Except for some desert and mountain where we do electronic walls, build a wall from the Pacific to the Rio Grande. We need to do Brownsville, McAllen, Del Rio, Laredo and El Paso. If they can get to Presidio, more power to them.

One thing that Trump has omitted from his immigration plan has been fining companies that hire them.. if a company hires them fine them heavily. Make the fine large enough to make the company not want to hire them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(08-22-2018 10:17 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:59 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:33 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  of course her family will remember, but its not a national news story. There will be roughly 50 murders today in the US... all of them tragic; yet this is may be the 3rd time in the history of this country that a sitting President has been implicated for a felony. We are headed for a constitutional crisis, probable impeachment, and possible conviction of a sitting President and yesterday's events were huge. I realize for the Fox crowd it might be a nothingburger, but for the rest of the country that lives outside of the bubble, this is the biggest Presidential story/scandel since Watergate.

You are living in the past. No sitting president will get impeached because Obama has already left office.

If Democrats take control of the House, Donald Trump will be impeached. He might not get convicted in the Senate, but he will be impeached. When Donald Trump leaves office, whenever that is, a felony warrant could very well be awaiting him.

Felony on what? Only in your imagination.

And if the Democrats do impeach him, they will learn the lesson the Republicans did with their overreach in 1998. There are enough mindless, ignorant of the constitution Democrats in the House that it might happen. And they would be punished in 2020.

I believe being implicated in a felony will ultimately prompt a warrant and certainly justify impeachment.

We're just getting started, however. Cohen will work with Mueller and, apparently, has information that will be useful to the investigation. Breaking campaign finance laws might be the least of Trump's worries.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018...elony.html

It's already been pretty widely acknowledged, even by former FEC head, that this was a personal matter that would be exempted from campaign finance law.

(08-22-2018 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If we really wanted secure borders, we could get them a lot more easily if we didn't weaponize ICE and CBP against minorities, provide a reasonable mechanism for people fleeing violence and for family reunification, and helped other countries mitigate their security and human rights issues. Go ahead build a wall, but know it won't do any good.

I agree. But I want to see the problem actually solved. Unfortunately, we have two political parties who both want to keep the problem going in order to feed red meat to their respective bases.

Here's the way I would do it:
1) First, we have to deal with everybody already here illegally. If they are here and working, they and their families get permanent guest worker status. I've seen it called a red card, so I'll call it that. Red cards entitle you to stay here as long as you meet certain standards, make progress in learning English, and stay out of criminal activities. There is no path to citizenship, without going back home and doing it by the numbers, but you can stay here as long as you keep your nose clean.
2) Anybody who serves in the military and gets an honorable discharge becomes eligible for citizenship.
3) The process of granting legal entry and citizenship is streamlined and numbers increased significantly. If you have a useful skill and are not a terrorist or criminal, you get in.
4) The only way to quiet the immigration pressure is to make things better back home, so make that a big part of our foreign policy.
5) Never fight a war that we don't intend to win. Fighting a war wit a hand tied behind our back guarantees a lengthy quagmire that produces one product--refuges by the thousands.

I would add a #6 - Eliminate the anchor babies.

(08-22-2018 10:17 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:59 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  You are living in the past. No sitting president will get impeached because Obama has already left office.

If Democrats take control of the House, Donald Trump will be impeached. He might not get convicted in the Senate, but he will be impeached. When Donald Trump leaves office, whenever that is, a felony warrant could very well be awaiting him.

Felony on what? Only in your imagination.

And if the Democrats do impeach him, they will learn the lesson the Republicans did with their overreach in 1998. There are enough mindless, ignorant of the constitution Democrats in the House that it might happen. And they would be punished in 2020.

I believe being implicated in a felony will ultimately prompt a warrant and certainly justify impeachment.

We're just getting started, however. Cohen will work with Mueller and, apparently, has information that will be useful to the investigation. Breaking campaign finance laws might be the least of Trump's worries.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018...elony.html

what a poorly written article based on nothing that matters....nice disclaimer at the end too....idiots....

hammered out on slate....

Marc why do you want him impeached?

Gotta love it. Mensa: “we’re just getting started. Cohen has information.”

You just can’t make this chit up!

First. Flynn’s got information......
Second. Popodop’s got information.....
Third. Manafort’s got information.......
Forth. Gates’ has information.....
Fifth. Cohen’s got information......
Sixth. All the others I have forgotten have information......

You guys remind me of a golf infomercial. FOUR MORE YARDS!
Moronic at its best you guys fall for all this chit.

(08-22-2018 01:35 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:17 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:59 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  You are living in the past. No sitting president will get impeached because Obama has already left office.

If Democrats take control of the House, Donald Trump will be impeached. He might not get convicted in the Senate, but he will be impeached. When Donald Trump leaves office, whenever that is, a felony warrant could very well be awaiting him.

Felony on what? Only in your imagination.

And if the Democrats do impeach him, they will learn the lesson the Republicans did with their overreach in 1998. There are enough mindless, ignorant of the constitution Democrats in the House that it might happen. And they would be punished in 2020.

I believe being implicated in a felony will ultimately prompt a warrant and certainly justify impeachment.

We're just getting started, however. Cohen will work with Mueller and, apparently, has information that will be useful to the investigation. Breaking campaign finance laws might be the least of Trump's worries.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018...elony.html

It's already been pretty widely acknowledged, even by former FEC head, that this was a personal matter that would be exempted from campaign finance law.

Sure thing. What about the falsified documents that went along with this payment? The obstruction of the investigation by repeatedly lying about an active investigation? Nah, I’m sure it’s nothing.

(08-22-2018 04:55 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Gotta love it. Mensa: “we’re just getting started. Cohen has information.”

You just can’t make this chit up!

First. Flynn’s got information......
Second. Popodop’s got information.....
Third. Manafort’s got information.......
Forth. Gates’ has information.....
Fifth. Cohen’s got information......
Sixth. All the others I have forgotten have information......

You guys remind me of a golf infomercial. FOUR MORE YARDS!
Moronic at its best you guys fall for all this chit.

I’m sorry, but whatever point you’re trying to make it sort of ruined by the fact you just listed the 5 current felons that Trump had working in his campaign.

(08-22-2018 01:37 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If we really wanted secure borders, we could get them a lot more easily if we didn't weaponize ICE and CBP against minorities, provide a reasonable mechanism for people fleeing violence and for family reunification, and helped other countries mitigate their security and human rights issues. Go ahead build a wall, but know it won't do any good.

I agree. But I want to see the problem actually solved. Unfortunately, we have two political parties who both want to keep the problem going in order to feed red meat to their respective bases.

Here's the way I would do it:
1) First, we have to deal with everybody already here illegally. If they are here and working, they and their families get permanent guest worker status. I've seen it called a red card, so I'll call it that. Red cards entitle you to stay here as long as you meet certain standards, make progress in learning English, and stay out of criminal activities. There is no path to citizenship, without going back home and doing it by the numbers, but you can stay here as long as you keep your nose clean.
2) Anybody who serves in the military and gets an honorable discharge becomes eligible for citizenship.
3) The process of granting legal entry and citizenship is streamlined and numbers increased significantly. If you have a useful skill and are not a terrorist or criminal, you get in.
4) The only way to quiet the immigration pressure is to make things better back home, so make that a big part of our foreign policy.
5) Never fight a war that we don't intend to win. Fighting a war wit a hand tied behind our back guarantees a lengthy quagmire that produces one product--refuges by the thousands.

I would add a #6 - Eliminate the anchor babies.

That requires a constitutional amendment.

(08-22-2018 05:09 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 01:37 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If we really wanted secure borders, we could get them a lot more easily if we didn't weaponize ICE and CBP against minorities, provide a reasonable mechanism for people fleeing violence and for family reunification, and helped other countries mitigate their security and human rights issues. Go ahead build a wall, but know it won't do any good.

I agree. But I want to see the problem actually solved. Unfortunately, we have two political parties who both want to keep the problem going in order to feed red meat to their respective bases.

Here's the way I would do it:
1) First, we have to deal with everybody already here illegally. If they are here and working, they and their families get permanent guest worker status. I've seen it called a red card, so I'll call it that. Red cards entitle you to stay here as long as you meet certain standards, make progress in learning English, and stay out of criminal activities. There is no path to citizenship, without going back home and doing it by the numbers, but you can stay here as long as you keep your nose clean.
2) Anybody who serves in the military and gets an honorable discharge becomes eligible for citizenship.
3) The process of granting legal entry and citizenship is streamlined and numbers increased significantly. If you have a useful skill and are not a terrorist or criminal, you get in.
4) The only way to quiet the immigration pressure is to make things better back home, so make that a big part of our foreign policy.
5) Never fight a war that we don't intend to win. Fighting a war wit a hand tied behind our back guarantees a lengthy quagmire that produces one product--refuges by the thousands.

I would add a #6 - Eliminate the anchor babies.

That requires a constitutional amendment.

Let another handful of 20-something ladies get raped and/or murdered and that won't be a problem.

(08-22-2018 05:09 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:55 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Gotta love it. Mensa: “we’re just getting started. Cohen has information.”

You just can’t make this chit up!

First. Flynn’s got information......
Second. Popodop’s got information.....
Third. Manafort’s got information.......
Forth. Gates’ has information.....
Fifth. Cohen’s got information......
Sixth. All the others I have forgotten have information......

You guys remind me of a golf infomercial. FOUR MORE YARDS!
Moronic at its best you guys fall for all this chit.

I’m sorry, but whatever point you’re trying to make it sort of ruined by the fact you just listed the 5 current felons that Trump had working in his campaign.

Would you like for me to list the FBI-DOJ officials who began this ‘investigation’ who have since been fired for cause or forced out of ‘public service’?
This started as a war on Trump with the power of the federal government (unconstitutionaly, I might add) being given to the individual who the day before he was appointed to investigate Trump had been interviewed and turned down by the president for FBI Director. This alone should be reason enough to have never appointed Mueller but it is only a small piece to the coup puzzle.
If Mueller were subject to oversight, as the constitution declares he should be, he would already have been fired.

Don't know about some folks, but I found the story of a murdered girl 10000x more important than some crap happening in DC. I get it that some folks are living their wet dream (especially if they watch CNN), but that will, as usual, lead to future heartbreak and that girl will still have been murdered. How ANYONE can blast a network for leading with her death says more about those people's partisanship than anything else, IMO.

(08-22-2018 05:07 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 01:35 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:17 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 09:59 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  If Democrats take control of the House, Donald Trump will be impeached. He might not get convicted in the Senate, but he will be impeached. When Donald Trump leaves office, whenever that is, a felony warrant could very well be awaiting him.

Felony on what? Only in your imagination.

And if the Democrats do impeach him, they will learn the lesson the Republicans did with their overreach in 1998. There are enough mindless, ignorant of the constitution Democrats in the House that it might happen. And they would be punished in 2020.

I believe being implicated in a felony will ultimately prompt a warrant and certainly justify impeachment.

We're just getting started, however. Cohen will work with Mueller and, apparently, has information that will be useful to the investigation. Breaking campaign finance laws might be the least of Trump's worries.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018...elony.html

It's already been pretty widely acknowledged, even by former FEC head, that this was a personal matter that would be exempted from campaign finance law.

Sure thing. What about the falsified documents that went along with this payment? The obstruction of the investigation by repeatedly lying about an active investigation? Nah, I’m sure it’s nothing.

1. Falsified documents claim is based on the assumption that the payments were illegal campaign contributions. IF the argument can successfully be made that they were illegal campaign contributions then there may be something there. Since the payments are likely not to be illegal campaign contributions, the documents are not what you think they are.
2. Obstruction again? Please.

(08-22-2018 05:26 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 05:09 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:55 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Gotta love it. Mensa: “we’re just getting started. Cohen has information.”

You just can’t make this chit up!

First. Flynn’s got information......
Second. Popodop’s got information.....
Third. Manafort’s got information.......
Forth. Gates’ has information.....
Fifth. Cohen’s got information......
Sixth. All the others I have forgotten have information......

You guys remind me of a golf infomercial. FOUR MORE YARDS!
Moronic at its best you guys fall for all this chit.

I’m sorry, but whatever point you’re trying to make it sort of ruined by the fact you just listed the 5 current felons that Trump had working in his campaign.

Would you like for me to list the FBI-DOJ officials who began this ‘investigation’ who have since been fired for cause or forced out of ‘public service’?
This started as a war on Trump with the power of the federal government (unconstitutionaly, I might add) being given to the individual who the day before he was appointed to investigate Trump had been interviewed and turned down by the president for FBI Director. This alone should be reason enough to have never appointed Mueller but it is only a small piece to the coup puzzle.
If Mueller were subject to oversight, as the constitution declares he should be, he would already have been fired.

1. Those people were fired by the person who hired all the aforementioned criminals, and who fired them for investigating other possible crimes he committed. Not an argument that helps you from an objective perspective.

2. Mueller had already been FBI director for two administrations, you’re going to have to present some actual evidence that he was upset about not getting the job for the third administration after having already left the job before the Trump Administration for that argument hold any water.

3. He is subject to oversight. He is subject to oversight from a career republican whose boss is a career republican, and whose boss was literally a Republican politician appointed by Trump. That persons boss is Trump. I know, it sounds ridiculous reading it out loud, but now you see why this argument is a really, really poor one.

4. Prosecuting people for multiple crimes they committed regardless of their position close to those in power is the opposite of a coup.