Might warrant a small bowl of popcorn, certainly not an entire bag...
I don't really give a rat's ass about Manafort and what happens to him for a couple of reasons. The first is that this case has absolutely NOTHING to do with Trump or collusion. The second is that even if convicted, Manafort is in no way some grave threat to turn on Trump because, again, there was no collusion. Of that I'm confident.
Now, having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't enjoy seeing Bueller lose this case because with a conviction, the left and the MSM will be touting this as some grand victory for Bueller and justification for his witch hunt. If he loses, they'll just blame Trump for interfereing and claim he needs to be impeached for obstruction of justice.
Pretty much. We can expect to hear it all over and over until a democrat regains the WH.
Might warrant a small bowl of popcorn, certainly not an entire bag...
I don't really give a rat's ass about Manafort and what happens to him for a couple of reasons. The first is that this case has absolutely NOTHING to do with Trump or collusion. The second is that even if convicted, Manafort is in no way some grave threat to turn on Trump because, again, there was no collusion. Of that I'm confident.
Now, having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't enjoy seeing Bueller lose this case because with a conviction, the left and the MSM will be touting this as some grand victory for Bueller and justification for his witch hunt. If he loses, they'll just blame Trump for interfereing and claim he needs to be impeached for obstruction of justice.
If smart the GOP will play this as political persecution and a threat to the Republic to motivate voters.
I think they convict Manafort for something. It won't be a homerun but it won't be a strike out
Might warrant a small bowl of popcorn, certainly not an entire bag...
I don't really give a rat's ass about Manafort and what happens to him for a couple of reasons. The first is that this case has absolutely NOTHING to do with Trump or collusion. The second is that even if convicted, Manafort is in no way some grave threat to turn on Trump because, again, there was no collusion. Of that I'm confident.
Now, having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't enjoy seeing Bueller lose this case because with a conviction, the left and the MSM will be touting this as some grand victory for Bueller and justification for his witch hunt. If he loses, they'll just blame Trump for interfereing and claim he needs to be impeached for obstruction of justice.
If smart the GOP will play this as political persecution and a threat to the Republic to motivate voters.
I think they convict Manafort for something. It won't be a homerun but it won't be a strike out
Probably. I think he gets acquitted on at least half of the 18, though. With the abuse of government resources, I'd like to see him totally acquitted, even though I think he probably did break laws. This stuff other than the bank fraud happened so long ago. As for the bank fraud, much of the evidence was on a loan that got denied. I'd have a tough time convicting on that. It was irrelevant. There's also no indication the banks lost any money. This generally gets prosecuted when they default on the loan.
Might warrant a small bowl of popcorn, certainly not an entire bag...
I don't really give a rat's ass about Manafort and what happens to him for a couple of reasons. The first is that this case has absolutely NOTHING to do with Trump or collusion. The second is that even if convicted, Manafort is in no way some grave threat to turn on Trump because, again, there was no collusion. Of that I'm confident.
Now, having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't enjoy seeing Bueller lose this case because with a conviction, the left and the MSM will be touting this as some grand victory for Bueller and justification for his witch hunt. If he loses, they'll just blame Trump for interfereing and claim he needs to be impeached for obstruction of justice.
No disagreement here.
It may well be more of a lunacy spectacle if he walks.
Leftists Cliff diving type stuff.
Still nothing to do with the Drumpf or the "collusion illusion".
"...The former Trump campaign chairman has pleaded not guilty to all 18 counts. The charges: five counts for filing false tax returns between 2010 and 2014; another four counts for failing to report foreign bank accounts; and then nine counts for bank fraud and conspiracies to commit bank fraud...."
We obviously haven't seen all the evidence, but from what I've heard, I would have trouble on getting beyond reasonable doubt on the tax returns. I would need some numbers showing what was in and what wasn't and would need somebody other than the two criminals saying it was fraud (the tax preparer was a criminal).
They probably provided enough evidence on failing to report foreign bank accounts, but that's civil not criminal.
I would never convict for bank fraud on a loan that got denied. But they may have him on some of the bank fraud. Still there may be room for reasonable doubt. And if he hasn't defaulted on the loans, some may not want to convict.
"...The former Trump campaign chairman has pleaded not guilty to all 18 counts. The charges: five counts for filing false tax returns between 2010 and 2014; another four counts for failing to report foreign bank accounts; and then nine counts for bank fraud and conspiracies to commit bank fraud...."
We obviously haven't seen all the evidence, but from what I've heard, I would have trouble on getting beyond reasonable doubt on the tax returns. I would need some numbers showing what was in and what wasn't and would need somebody other than the two criminals saying it was fraud (the tax preparer was a criminal).
They probably provided enough evidence on failing to report foreign bank accounts, but that's civil not criminal.
I would never convict for bank fraud on a loan that got denied. But they may have him on some of the bank fraud. Still there may be room for reasonable doubt. And if he hasn't defaulted on the loans, some may not want to convict.
There was direct testimony where Gates admitted that Manafort told him to be open about reporting all foreign bank accounts when they were going to be interviewed. I would need an email or some written proof from Manafort that says "scratch that, dont report those account" to get beyond that testimony.
IF he is acquitted, which he probably has a better shot than most, the left will say they expected it and the next trial is where Mueller will put the screws to Manafort to flip on Trump.
If he is guilty on even one count, the left will scream that Manafort is about to spill the beans on the hookers and golden showers to avoid being tried in Washington and of course Trump is about to be impeached.
(08-17-2018 02:04 PM)200yrs2late Wrote: IF he is acquitted, which he probably has a better shot than most, the left will say they expected it and the next trial is where Mueller will put the screws to Manafort to flip on Trump.
If he is guilty on even one count, the left will scream that Manafort is about to spill the beans on the hookers and golden showers to avoid being tried in Washington and of course Trump is about to be impeached.
@platinumvaluation
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 02:07 PM by stinkfist.)
(08-17-2018 02:04 PM)200yrs2late Wrote: IF he is acquitted, which he probably has a better shot than most, the left will say they expected it and the next trial is where Mueller will put the screws to Manafort to flip on Trump.
If he is guilty on even one count, the left will scream that Manafort is about to spill the beans on the hookers and golden showers to avoid being tried in Washington and of course Trump is about to be impeached.
They only way Manafort walks on these charges is with jury tampering or nullification. He clearly underreported a massive and amount on his tax returns. He clearly used multiple bank and corporate accounts to deliberately cover up that underreporting.
This isn't even in doubt.
On the bank fraud charges, there's a clear effort to deceive as well.
I fail to see how any person can SIMULTANEOUSLY argue that
1) His income wasn't 60 million higher for tax purposes
2) His income was millions higher for purposes of qualifying for a loan.
-----
He walks...its because of nullification and/or tampering. Full stop.
(08-17-2018 02:04 PM)200yrs2late Wrote: IF he is acquitted, which he probably has a better shot than most, the left will say they expected it and the next trial is where Mueller will put the screws to Manafort to flip on Trump.
If he is guilty on even one count, the left will scream that Manafort is about to spill the beans on the hookers and golden showers to avoid being tried in Washington and of course Trump is about to be impeached.
They only way Manafort walks on these charges is with jury tampering or nullification. He clearly underreported a massive and amount on his tax returns. He clearly used multiple bank and corporate accounts to deliberately cover up that underreporting.
This isn't even in doubt.
On the bank fraud charges, there's a clear effort to deceive as well.
I fail to see how any person can SIMULTANEOUSLY argue that
1) His income wasn't 60 million higher for tax purposes
2) His income was millions higher for purposes of qualifying for a loan.
-----
He walks...its because of nullification and/or tampering. Full stop.
The ONLY way? Really, not even say a 1.2% chance as they head to the polls that the outcome isn't what you are so certain of?
(08-17-2018 02:04 PM)200yrs2late Wrote: IF he is acquitted, which he probably has a better shot than most, the left will say they expected it and the next trial is where Mueller will put the screws to Manafort to flip on Trump.
If he is guilty on even one count, the left will scream that Manafort is about to spill the beans on the hookers and golden showers to avoid being tried in Washington and of course Trump is about to be impeached.
They only way Manafort walks on these charges is with jury tampering or nullification. He clearly underreported a massive and amount on his tax returns. He clearly used multiple bank and corporate accounts to deliberately cover up that underreporting.
This isn't even in doubt.
On the bank fraud charges, there's a clear effort to deceive as well.
I fail to see how any person can SIMULTANEOUSLY argue that
1) His income wasn't 60 million higher for tax purposes
2) His income was millions higher for purposes of qualifying for a loan.
-----
He walks...its because of nullification and/or tampering. Full stop.
Not that the prosecution botched it, or didn't have the evidence like they didn't ten years ago, its because of tampering. What a sad person you are.
Underreporting income isnt the crime he's being tried for, and the judge warned the prosecution that their standard of proof in this case was much higher tha that. Its also higher than Manafort knowing about it. He had to know about it, and know that he was doing it to defraud. Thats a high hurdle when you star witness is the one who committed crimes of embezzlement against the accused, and who had every reason to falisify returns and not disclose accounts in order to not have his crimes exposed, and who has over 200 years in prison-reasons to lie for the prosecution.
Basically, Tom is advocating that if someone commits a crime against another person by embezzling, falsifies records so that the person cant detect the embezzlement, then the victim should do 300 years in prison because, you know, Trump.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 08:31 PM by UofMstateU.)
(08-17-2018 02:04 PM)200yrs2late Wrote: IF he is acquitted, which he probably has a better shot than most, the left will say they expected it and the next trial is where Mueller will put the screws to Manafort to flip on Trump.
If he is guilty on even one count, the left will scream that Manafort is about to spill the beans on the hookers and golden showers to avoid being tried in Washington and of course Trump is about to be impeached.
They only way Manafort walks on these charges is with jury tampering or nullification. He clearly underreported a massive and amount on his tax returns. He clearly used multiple bank and corporate accounts to deliberately cover up that underreporting.
This isn't even in doubt.
On the bank fraud charges, there's a clear effort to deceive as well.
I fail to see how any person can SIMULTANEOUSLY argue that
1) His income wasn't 60 million higher for tax purposes
2) His income was millions higher for purposes of qualifying for a loan.
-----
He walks...its because of nullification and/or tampering. Full stop.
As an accountant, there's nothing that's been reported that provides anywhere close to a reasonable doubt that he underreported. Everyone uses multiple accounts to navigate through the complicated laws on foreign taxation. That's perfectly legal.
Proving something that should have been income wasn't in the tax returns is very easy. All we have is testimony by criminals rather than them having an expert show tax returns and transactions and proving they weren't there. Then you still have to show it was Manafort and not Gates who caused that.
Now maybe more was in evidence. Journalists are economically and financially illiterate for the most part so they may have omitted reporting on that. But I would need a lot of detail to convict on tax fraud.
Did he? Probably. But our standard is not probably. The prosecution has to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Might warrant a small bowl of popcorn, certainly not an entire bag...
I don't really give a rat's ass about Manafort and what happens to him for a couple of reasons. The first is that this case has absolutely NOTHING to do with Trump or collusion. The second is that even if convicted, Manafort is in no way some grave threat to turn on Trump because, again, there was no collusion. Of that I'm confident.
Now, having said that, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't enjoy seeing Bueller lose this case because with a conviction, the left and the MSM will be touting this as some grand victory for Bueller and justification for his witch hunt. If he loses, they'll just blame Trump for interfereing and claim he needs to be impeached for obstruction of justice.
If smart the GOP will play this as political persecution and a threat to the Republic to motivate voters.
I think they convict Manafort for something. It won't be a homerun but it won't be a strike out
Probably. I think he gets acquitted on at least half of the 18, though. With the abuse of government resources, I'd like to see him totally acquitted, even though I think he probably did break laws. This stuff other than the bank fraud happened so long ago. As for the bank fraud, much of the evidence was on a loan that got denied. I'd have a tough time convicting on that. It was irrelevant. There's also no indication the banks lost any money. This generally gets prosecuted when they default on the loan.
Mistrial on 10 of the 18. As I had said, the failure to report accounts and some of the bank fraud seemed likely (but trivial) convictions. And there may have been detail evidence (as I said), not reported by the media that sealed the deal on the tax fraud. He was guilty on all 5 of those.
