This is the sort of time when I think the United States could do tremendous good without a single tweet or bomb or diplomat. Expedited citizenship to any South African farmer who has a proven track record of land management. We'll even throw in 10-20 acres in the plains.

(08-02-2018 06:37 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  This is the sort of time when I think the United States could do tremendous good without a single tweet or bomb or diplomat. Expedited citizenship to any South African farmer who has a proven track record of land management. We'll even throw in 10-20 acres in the plains.

Uh, sure, so long as we can do the same for farmers from El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala. I'll bet plenty of them know how to farm.

Do you realize the optics of what youre suggesting? Letting in white farmers from South Africa while imprisoning those from Central America. And lets not even start on how Trump is treating asylum seekers, facing far more dire threats than the loss of land. From a practical perspective, most white commerical farmers have the option of many countries if they chose to flee. You can buy a Spanish residency permit for 500,000 Euro paid for a home you own . You can move to Canada if you simply invest 250,000 Canadian in a special mutual fund.

All hell would break loose if Trump tried that policy. Are we going to let in all the Black Zimbabweans that managed or worked on farms too and faced loss of income via expropriation? How about Venezuelans? Many of the South African farmers farm the mailbox and use managers to run their properties.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh, sure, so long as we can do the same for farmers from El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala. I'll bet plenty of them know how to farm.

Are any of them having their farms taken from them because of their skin color? Let me know if so and I'll extend the invite.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Do you realize the optics of what youre suggesting? Letting in white farmers from South Africa while imprisoning those from Central America. And lets not even start on how Trump is treating asylum seekers, facing far more dire threats than the loss of land. From a practical perspective, most white commerical farmers have the option of many countries if they chose to flee. You can buy a Spanish residency permit for 500,000 Euro paid for a home you own . You can move to Canada if you simply invest 250,000 Canadian in a special mutual fund.

I don't give two sh*ts about Trump and his policies. And it's hilarious you think farmers have a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS laying around to just toss around. You're out of touch on that. I guess you chose Canada instead of Austria because of the "bargain basement" price. In Austria to buy your way in it is a million Euros.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  All hell would break loose if Trump tried that policy. Are we going to let in all the Black Zimbabweans that managed or worked on farms too and faced loss of income via expropriation? How about Venezuelans? Many of the South African farmers farm the mailbox and use managers to run their properties.

I'd happily extend the invite to any Venezuelan that wasn't associated with the Communist Party and was, prior to socialism raping their country, a productive producer. Same goes for the Zimbabweans shredded by racist confiscations (white farmers again) and hyperinflation from yet another socialism-esk regime.

Only a leftist could reflexively white guilt so g***d*** hard they think it's racist to offer citizenship to somebody having their family and livelihood threatened because of a racist government confiscation.

South Africa is a shithole.

When I was a kid it was sort of a bastion of economic success in sub-saharan Africa but it isn't anymore.

There are a lot better places to visit and do business in now. South Africa's devolution is accelerating at an alarming rate.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:37 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  This is the sort of time when I think the United States could do tremendous good without a single tweet or bomb or diplomat. Expedited citizenship to any South African farmer who has a proven track record of land management. We'll even throw in 10-20 acres in the plains.

Uh, sure, so long as we can do the same for farmers from El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala. I'll bet plenty of them know how to farm.

Do you realize the optics of what youre suggesting? Letting in white farmers from South Africa while imprisoning those from Central America. And lets not even start on how Trump is treating asylum seekers, facing far more dire threats than the loss of land. From a practical perspective, most white commerical farmers have the option of many countries if they chose to flee. You can buy a Spanish residency permit for 500,000 Euro paid for a home you own . You can move to Canada if you simply invest 250,000 Canadian in a special mutual fund.

All hell would break loose if Trump tried that policy. Are we going to let in all the Black Zimbabweans that managed or worked on farms too and faced loss of income via expropriation? How about Venezuelans? Many of the South African farmers farm the mailbox and use managers to run their properties.

Wow so the governments of the Latin American countries are allowing farmer's land to be seized because of the color of their skin? I didn't know that.

(08-02-2018 06:37 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  This is the sort of time when I think the United States could do tremendous good without a single tweet or bomb or diplomat. Expedited citizenship to any South African farmer who has a proven track record of land management. We'll even throw in 10-20 acres in the plains.

True political refugees.

(08-02-2018 06:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  South Africa is a shithole.

When I was a kid it was sort of a bastion of economic success in sub-saharan Africa but it isn't anymore.

There are a lot better places to visit and do business in now. South Africa's devolution is accelerating at an alarming rate.

Yes destined to become just another impoverished African country with a brutal dictator the lives large while the country burns.

(08-02-2018 06:57 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  South Africa is a shithole.

When I was a kid it was sort of a bastion of economic success in sub-saharan Africa but it isn't anymore.

There are a lot better places to visit and do business in now. South Africa's devolution is accelerating at an alarming rate.

Yes destined to become just another impoverished African country with a brutal dictator the lives large while the country burns.

The remarkable thing is most of the success stories in sub-saharan Africa are advancing at rapid paces, even politically.

It's SA that is the sick-man of the region.

For a reason it's called the Dark Continent. It will get darker as in despair. I once asked a question, are there any stable african nations in Africa?

(08-02-2018 07:06 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  For a reason it's called the Dark Continent. It will get darker as in despair. I once asked a question, are there any stable african nations in Africa?

Yes.

(08-02-2018 06:52 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh, sure, so long as we can do the same for farmers from El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala. I'll bet plenty of them know how to farm.

Are any of them having their farms taken from them because of their skin color? Let me know if so and I'll extend the invite.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Do you realize the optics of what youre suggesting? Letting in white farmers from South Africa while imprisoning those from Central America. And lets not even start on how Trump is treating asylum seekers, facing far more dire threats than the loss of land. From a practical perspective, most white commerical farmers have the option of many countries if they chose to flee. You can buy a Spanish residency permit for 500,000 Euro paid for a home you own . You can move to Canada if you simply invest 250,000 Canadian in a special mutual fund.

I don't give two sh*ts about Trump and his policies. And it's hilarious you think farmers have a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS laying around to just toss around. You're out of touch on that. I guess you chose Canada instead of Austria because of the "bargain basement" price. In Austria to buy your way in it is a million Euros.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  All hell would break loose if Trump tried that policy. Are we going to let in all the Black Zimbabweans that managed or worked on farms too and faced loss of income via expropriation? How about Venezuelans? Many of the South African farmers farm the mailbox and use managers to run their properties.

I'd happily extend the invite to any Venezuelan that wasn't associated with the Communist Party and was, prior to socialism raping their country, a productive producer. Same goes for the Zimbabweans shredded by racist confiscations (white farmers again) and hyperinflation from yet another socialism-esk regime.

Only a leftist could reflexively white guilt so g***d*** hard they think it's racist to offer citizen to somebody having their family and livelihood threatened because of a racist government confiscation.

Ah, race based expropriation (as you define it, I'd argue that its simply a return of property originally taken or compensation for property taken) is a reason for entry, but actual death threats based upon not being part of a criminal gang isn't. Or being Gay, or being Rohingya in Myanmar or ..... millions of other examples. How about tribal based issues in the Congo? I can whip up 10 million that might be able to get past that alone. How about all the Blacks in Darfur? Another 10 milllion. How about the Kurds? What about the Uigyur? Aren't they a race? And why is expropriation a bigger issue than flat out killing? I'll bet I could find 200 million people who could qualify under your rules.

How about this. Allow every person BLACK or WHITE that ever lived on land in South Africa that was taken from them to emigrate to the USA. We'd need to press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish, and 3 for Xhosa, and 4 for Zulu if that happened.

Most white commercial farmers in South Africa have significant means.

GTS, You might not support Trump, but from what I see in here, you're perfectly content with him so long as the alternative is the Dems. Quite frankly, I don't see your 'non-support' of Trump as being measurably different than the people who line up to be in the front row of his rallies. Sorry, but if you're never willing to vote/support for the only opposition we have, you're not opposing him. You might not support him, but I'm not seeing you oppose him either.

Context matters. And in the context of our current asylum policies and our current Adminstration, advocating for asylum in this case while opposing it for others in more dire situations looks rather bad, to say the least.

(08-02-2018 07:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:57 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  South Africa is a shithole.

When I was a kid it was sort of a bastion of economic success in sub-saharan Africa but it isn't anymore.

There are a lot better places to visit and do business in now. South Africa's devolution is accelerating at an alarming rate.

Yes destined to become just another impoverished African country with a brutal dictator the lives large while the country burns.

The remarkable thing is most of the success stories in sub-saharan Africa are advancing at rapid paces, even politically.

It's SA that is the sick-man of the region.

You have Botswana. And Cabo Verde. What else would you favorably compare to South Africa? Uganda? Kenya? Cameroon? Senegal? Morocco? No, no, no, no.

(08-02-2018 07:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:57 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  South Africa is a shithole.

When I was a kid it was sort of a bastion of economic success in sub-saharan Africa but it isn't anymore.

There are a lot better places to visit and do business in now. South Africa's devolution is accelerating at an alarming rate.

Yes destined to become just another impoverished African country with a brutal dictator the lives large while the country burns.

The remarkable thing is most of the success stories in sub-saharan Africa are advancing at rapid paces, even politically.

It's SA that is the sick-man of the region.

You have Botswana. And Cabo Verde. What else would you favorably compare to South Africa? Uganda? Kenya? Cameroon? Senegal? Morocco? No, no, no, no.

I'll just defer to your ranking of the gay bars across the region.

(08-02-2018 07:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:52 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh, sure, so long as we can do the same for farmers from El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala. I'll bet plenty of them know how to farm.

Are any of them having their farms taken from them because of their skin color? Let me know if so and I'll extend the invite.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Do you realize the optics of what youre suggesting? Letting in white farmers from South Africa while imprisoning those from Central America. And lets not even start on how Trump is treating asylum seekers, facing far more dire threats than the loss of land. From a practical perspective, most white commerical farmers have the option of many countries if they chose to flee. You can buy a Spanish residency permit for 500,000 Euro paid for a home you own . You can move to Canada if you simply invest 250,000 Canadian in a special mutual fund.

I don't give two sh*ts about Trump and his policies. And it's hilarious you think farmers have a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS laying around to just toss around. You're out of touch on that. I guess you chose Canada instead of Austria because of the "bargain basement" price. In Austria to buy your way in it is a million Euros.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  All hell would break loose if Trump tried that policy. Are we going to let in all the Black Zimbabweans that managed or worked on farms too and faced loss of income via expropriation? How about Venezuelans? Many of the South African farmers farm the mailbox and use managers to run their properties.

I'd happily extend the invite to any Venezuelan that wasn't associated with the Communist Party and was, prior to socialism raping their country, a productive producer. Same goes for the Zimbabweans shredded by racist confiscations (white farmers again) and hyperinflation from yet another socialism-esk regime.

Only a leftist could reflexively white guilt so g***d*** hard they think it's racist to offer citizen to somebody having their family and livelihood threatened because of a racist government confiscation.

Ah, race based expropriation (as you define it, I'd argue that its simply a return of property originally taken or compensation for property taken) is a reason for entry, but actual death threats based upon not being part of a criminal gang isn't. Or being Gay, or being Rohingya in Myanmar or ..... millions of other examples. How about tribal based issues in the Congo? I can whip up 10 million that might be able to get past that alone. How about all the Blacks in Darfur? Another 10 milllion. How about the Kurds? What about the Uigyur? Aren't they a race? And why is expropriation a bigger issue than flat out killing? I'll bet I could find 200 million people who could qualify under your rules.

How about this. Allow every person BLACK or WHITE that ever lived on land in South Africa that was taken from them to emigrate to the USA. We'd need to press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish, and 3 for Xhosa, and 4 for Zulu if that happened.

Most white commercial farmers in South Africa have significant means.

GTS, You might not support Trump, but from what I see in here, you're perfectly content with him so long as the alternative is the Dems. Quite frankly, I don't see your 'non-support' of Trump as being measurably different than the people who line up to be in the front row of his rallies. Sorry, but if you're never willing to vote/support for the only opposition we have, you're not opposing him. You might not support him, but I'm not seeing you oppose him either.

Context matters. And in the context of our current asylum policies and our current Adminstration, advocating for asylum in this case while opposing it for others in more dire situations looks rather bad, to say the least.

What utter nonsense, as usual

(08-02-2018 07:24 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:57 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  South Africa is a shithole.

When I was a kid it was sort of a bastion of economic success in sub-saharan Africa but it isn't anymore.

There are a lot better places to visit and do business in now. South Africa's devolution is accelerating at an alarming rate.

Yes destined to become just another impoverished African country with a brutal dictator the lives large while the country burns.

The remarkable thing is most of the success stories in sub-saharan Africa are advancing at rapid paces, even politically.

It's SA that is the sick-man of the region.

You have Botswana. And Cabo Verde. What else would you favorably compare to South Africa? Uganda? Kenya? Cameroon? Senegal? Morocco? No, no, no, no.

I'll just defer to your ranking of the gay bars across the region.

LOL So you, Mr. Africa expert, have no examples for your BS assertion. Let me guess, are you going to trot out Gabon? LOL. Nice election they had there. What a joke. I'll bet you were going to argue about Uganda too. Want to discuss his marauding armies in the Congo? Or his support for several sides in the South Sudanese Civil War? Or their commitments to democracy? South Africa remains the shining star of Africa for democratic norms, due process, economic freedom - even for those that don't support the government, and human rights. The whole reason there's even a discussion of fair payment to those who had their land stolen is precisely because there's a democracy going on there.

You argued that South Africa has more problems than other nations in the region politically. I'm seriously interested in what country (other than Botswana, Cabo Verde, and perhaps Namibia) that you could possibly rank higher than SA.

(08-02-2018 07:27 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:52 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh, sure, so long as we can do the same for farmers from El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala. I'll bet plenty of them know how to farm.

Are any of them having their farms taken from them because of their skin color? Let me know if so and I'll extend the invite.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Do you realize the optics of what youre suggesting? Letting in white farmers from South Africa while imprisoning those from Central America. And lets not even start on how Trump is treating asylum seekers, facing far more dire threats than the loss of land. From a practical perspective, most white commerical farmers have the option of many countries if they chose to flee. You can buy a Spanish residency permit for 500,000 Euro paid for a home you own . You can move to Canada if you simply invest 250,000 Canadian in a special mutual fund.

I don't give two sh*ts about Trump and his policies. And it's hilarious you think farmers have a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS laying around to just toss around. You're out of touch on that. I guess you chose Canada instead of Austria because of the "bargain basement" price. In Austria to buy your way in it is a million Euros.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  All hell would break loose if Trump tried that policy. Are we going to let in all the Black Zimbabweans that managed or worked on farms too and faced loss of income via expropriation? How about Venezuelans? Many of the South African farmers farm the mailbox and use managers to run their properties.

I'd happily extend the invite to any Venezuelan that wasn't associated with the Communist Party and was, prior to socialism raping their country, a productive producer. Same goes for the Zimbabweans shredded by racist confiscations (white farmers again) and hyperinflation from yet another socialism-esk regime.

Only a leftist could reflexively white guilt so g***d*** hard they think it's racist to offer citizen to somebody having their family and livelihood threatened because of a racist government confiscation.

Ah, race based expropriation (as you define it, I'd argue that its simply a return of property originally taken or compensation for property taken) is a reason for entry, but actual death threats based upon not being part of a criminal gang isn't. Or being Gay, or being Rohingya in Myanmar or ..... millions of other examples. How about tribal based issues in the Congo? I can whip up 10 million that might be able to get past that alone. How about all the Blacks in Darfur? Another 10 milllion. How about the Kurds? What about the Uigyur? Aren't they a race? And why is expropriation a bigger issue than flat out killing? I'll bet I could find 200 million people who could qualify under your rules.

How about this. Allow every person BLACK or WHITE that ever lived on land in South Africa that was taken from them to emigrate to the USA. We'd need to press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish, and 3 for Xhosa, and 4 for Zulu if that happened.

Most white commercial farmers in South Africa have significant means.

GTS, You might not support Trump, but from what I see in here, you're perfectly content with him so long as the alternative is the Dems. Quite frankly, I don't see your 'non-support' of Trump as being measurably different than the people who line up to be in the front row of his rallies. Sorry, but if you're never willing to vote/support for the only opposition we have, you're not opposing him. You might not support him, but I'm not seeing you oppose him either.

Context matters. And in the context of our current asylum policies and our current Adminstration, advocating for asylum in this case while opposing it for others in more dire situations looks rather bad, to say the least.

What utter nonsense, as usual

We all know he's a troll. Nobody is that obtuse or willfully ignorant.

(08-02-2018 07:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ah, race based expropriation (as you define it, I'd argue that its simply a return of property originally taken or compensation for property taken) is a reason for entry, but actual death threats based upon not being part of a criminal gang isn't. Or being Gay, or being Rohingya in Myanmar or ..... millions of other examples. How about tribal based issues in the Congo? I can whip up 10 million that might be able to get past that alone. How about all the Blacks in Darfur? Another 10 milllion. How about the Kurds? What about the Uigyur? Aren't they a race? And why is expropriation a bigger issue than flat out killing? I'll bet I could find 200 million people who could qualify under your rules.

You do know we've given citizenship to a metric crapload of Kurds who've helped allied forces right? I'm fine with extending rapid citizenship to people being **** on for non-racial reasons. But I do have some stipulations that go with expedition:

- You must know or be willing to rapidly learn English. English is the international language of business, of aviation, of really anything important. Our own laws are in English. We deliberate in English. The requirement is so you can APPRECIATE these things and UNDERSTAND THEM FOR YOURSELF. It is part of the cost of admission.

- You must have been a productive member of society. No freeloaders. You don't need to be making a mint, but you have to be able to support yourself and your family. It's trivial to adjust to the local standard of living and find out who is actually supporting themselves and who isn't. It could even be a mathematical formula adjusting for cost of living, standard of living, etc so that it's pro-rated for your locality. Or, alternatively, you have demonstrated the ability to do so in the past prior to your local government screwing you over.

- You must be willing to learn about the history behind the founding of this country and the ideas that shaped it. Ideas matter. This is practically the only exposure to The Enlightenment kids get in school these days.

- You must be willing to assimilate. The richness of the American cultural tapestry comes from immigrants coming in ... and then assimilating. No "we're here now, but we're not one of you". No Nordic country "no go zones" etc.

Quote:GTS, You might not support Trump, but from what I see in here, you're perfectly content with him so long as the alternative is the Dems. Quite frankly, I don't see your 'non-support' of Trump as being measurably different than the people who line up to be in the front row of his rallies. Sorry, but if you're never willing to vote/support for the only opposition we have, you're not opposing him. You might not support him, but I'm not seeing you oppose him either.

Context matters. And in the context of our current asylum policies and our current Adminstration, advocating for asylum in this case while opposing it for others in more dire situations looks rather bad, to say the least.

I find Trump to be revolting on a host of issues. Particularly free trade, the fourth amendment, the second amendment, the articles of enumeration,
hell ALL of the Constitution, the cult of the Presidency, domestic spying, and transparency. I could list all the exact same g**d*** gripes for Obama too, however. Even the particulars. I may not like Trump, but nothing will send me running to him faster than two things: a Communist .... and a Social Justice Warrior. The Democratic Party is increasingly ONLY compromised of the two. And so long as that is the case, I hope you're prepared for the very real possibility of another 4 years of Trump. Send ya' girl Ocasio-Cortez to bat. Trump will crush her even worse than Hilldawg. It's not that I'm rooting for Trump. I'm not. But the enemy of my enemy SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO isn't my friend in this case. It's an even nastier enemy. And if I thought Trump would actually deal a death blow to either group, I'd probably support him with my nose firmly held. The United States got into bed with Stalin to kick Hitler's ass, after all.

(08-02-2018 05:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 04:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'm just glad I got to see South Africa while Nelson Madela was still alive, when leaders were still scared to go against the wishes of Madiba. I don't think I would want to go back today.

South Africa actually appears to be safer today than during the late 90s. It still has many problems.

Also, remember, that the real threat isn't the ANC or DA, but the EFF. SA actually moved AWAY from it when they got rid of Zuma.

----


The lack of titles, which weren't provided to Blacks by the Apartheid government, should not be a bar to the return of property to those who had it stolen by previous governments. And why was it okay for white Boers to steal property from Blacks using government fiat, but not okay for that land to be returned to those that it was originally stolen from?

And even if you support the cemetation of South Africa's racist land grab by whites from Africans, understand that if the injustice isn't resolved by Cyril and his wing of the ANC, that much worse (including impacts in urban areas) will likely ensue from a Zuma/ANC government in alliance with the EFF. The stolen farms are going away. Try to keep them in the hands of those that stole them and you'll still lose them, and then lose the urban areas as well. Remember, that for many Africans in South Africa, there have been precious few economic gains in the last 20 years. At some point the EFF/ZumaANC wing will make a full ZANU play. When (not if) that happens, the goal is to have enough Africans with a stake in the system to stop it.

To the white commercial farmers in South Africa, understand that they had decades on stolen land. They can either ensure that the land is properly paid for (to the people who really owned it - regardless of the original governmental theft) or lose the land. And no, the US, nor anyone else is going to do squat to help the 'squatters' of Black land in South Africa. If I'm a white commercial farmer, I'd hope that the Cyril government will provide a way for me to clear the accounts so that I can reasonably hope to retain the land.

(08-02-2018 07:42 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:27 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:52 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh, sure, so long as we can do the same for farmers from El Salvador, Mexico and Guatemala. I'll bet plenty of them know how to farm.

Are any of them having their farms taken from them because of their skin color? Let me know if so and I'll extend the invite.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Do you realize the optics of what youre suggesting? Letting in white farmers from South Africa while imprisoning those from Central America. And lets not even start on how Trump is treating asylum seekers, facing far more dire threats than the loss of land. From a practical perspective, most white commerical farmers have the option of many countries if they chose to flee. You can buy a Spanish residency permit for 500,000 Euro paid for a home you own . You can move to Canada if you simply invest 250,000 Canadian in a special mutual fund.

I don't give two sh*ts about Trump and his policies. And it's hilarious you think farmers have a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS laying around to just toss around. You're out of touch on that. I guess you chose Canada instead of Austria because of the "bargain basement" price. In Austria to buy your way in it is a million Euros.

(08-02-2018 06:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  All hell would break loose if Trump tried that policy. Are we going to let in all the Black Zimbabweans that managed or worked on farms too and faced loss of income via expropriation? How about Venezuelans? Many of the South African farmers farm the mailbox and use managers to run their properties.

I'd happily extend the invite to any Venezuelan that wasn't associated with the Communist Party and was, prior to socialism raping their country, a productive producer. Same goes for the Zimbabweans shredded by racist confiscations (white farmers again) and hyperinflation from yet another socialism-esk regime.

Only a leftist could reflexively white guilt so g***d*** hard they think it's racist to offer citizen to somebody having their family and livelihood threatened because of a racist government confiscation.

Ah, race based expropriation (as you define it, I'd argue that its simply a return of property originally taken or compensation for property taken) is a reason for entry, but actual death threats based upon not being part of a criminal gang isn't. Or being Gay, or being Rohingya in Myanmar or ..... millions of other examples. How about tribal based issues in the Congo? I can whip up 10 million that might be able to get past that alone. How about all the Blacks in Darfur? Another 10 milllion. How about the Kurds? What about the Uigyur? Aren't they a race? And why is expropriation a bigger issue than flat out killing? I'll bet I could find 200 million people who could qualify under your rules.

How about this. Allow every person BLACK or WHITE that ever lived on land in South Africa that was taken from them to emigrate to the USA. We'd need to press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish, and 3 for Xhosa, and 4 for Zulu if that happened.

Most white commercial farmers in South Africa have significant means.

GTS, You might not support Trump, but from what I see in here, you're perfectly content with him so long as the alternative is the Dems. Quite frankly, I don't see your 'non-support' of Trump as being measurably different than the people who line up to be in the front row of his rallies. Sorry, but if you're never willing to vote/support for the only opposition we have, you're not opposing him. You might not support him, but I'm not seeing you oppose him either.

Context matters. And in the context of our current asylum policies and our current Adminstration, advocating for asylum in this case while opposing it for others in more dire situations looks rather bad, to say the least.

What utter nonsense, as usual

We all know he's a troll. Nobody is that obtuse or willfully ignorant.

Ignorant? You're the one who posted a ridiculous assertion and when called out on it, refused to defend it or provide examples. Seriously, what country in Africa has greater political freedoms than South Africa?

Look, I know what you are. To the others in here, Dixie just argued that South Africa lagged behind other African countries in certain political metrics. If anyone else wants to throw out an African country other than thinly populated Cabo Verde, Namibia, or Botswana to compare SA with, lets dance.

(08-02-2018 07:46 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 07:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ah, race based expropriation (as you define it, I'd argue that its simply a return of property originally taken or compensation for property taken) is a reason for entry, but actual death threats based upon not being part of a criminal gang isn't. Or being Gay, or being Rohingya in Myanmar or ..... millions of other examples. How about tribal based issues in the Congo? I can whip up 10 million that might be able to get past that alone. How about all the Blacks in Darfur? Another 10 milllion. How about the Kurds? What about the Uigyur? Aren't they a race? And why is expropriation a bigger issue than flat out killing? I'll bet I could find 200 million people who could qualify under your rules.

You do know we've given citizenship to a metric crapload of Kurds who've helped allied forces right? I'm fine with extending rapid citizenship to people being **** on for non-racial reasons. But I do have some stipulations that go with expedition:

- You must know or be willing to rapidly learn English. English is the international language of business, of aviation, of really anything important. Our own laws are in English. We deliberate in English. The requirement is so you can APPRECIATE these things and UNDERSTAND THEM FOR YOURSELF. It is part of the cost of admission.

- You must have been a productive member of society. No freeloaders. You don't need to be making a mint, but you have to be able to support yourself and your family. It's trivial to adjust to the local standard of living and find out who is actually supporting themselves and who isn't. It could even be a mathematical formula adjusting for cost of living, standard of living, etc so that it's pro-rated for your locality. Or, alternatively, you have demonstrated the ability to do so in the past prior to your local government screwing you over.

- You must be willing to learn about the history behind the founding of this country and the ideas that shaped it. Ideas matter. This is practically the only exposure to The Enlightenment kids get in school these days.

- You must be willing to assimilate. The richness of the American cultural tapestry comes from immigrants coming in ... and then assimilating. No "we're here now, but we're not one of you". No Nordic country "no go zones" etc.

Quote:GTS, You might not support Trump, but from what I see in here, you're perfectly content with him so long as the alternative is the Dems. Quite frankly, I don't see your 'non-support' of Trump as being measurably different than the people who line up to be in the front row of his rallies. Sorry, but if you're never willing to vote/support for the only opposition we have, you're not opposing him. You might not support him, but I'm not seeing you oppose him either.

Context matters. And in the context of our current asylum policies and our current Adminstration, advocating for asylum in this case while opposing it for others in more dire situations looks rather bad, to say the least.

I find Trump to be revolting on a host of issues. Particularly free trade, the fourth amendment, the second amendment, the articles of enumeration,
hell ALL of the Constitution, the cult of the Presidency, domestic spying, and transparency. I could list all the exact same g**d*** gripes for Obama too, however. Even the particulars. I may not like Trump, but nothing will send me running to him faster than two things: a Communist .... and a Social Justice Warrior. The Democratic Party is increasingly ONLY compromised of the two. And so long as that is the case, I hope you're prepared for the very real possibility of another 4 years of Trump. Send ya' girl Ocasio-Cortez to bat. Trump will crush her even worse than Hilldawg. It's not that I'm rooting for Trump. I'm not. But the enemy of my enemy SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO isn't my friend in this case. It's an even nastier enemy. And if I thought Trump would actually deal a death blow to either group, I'd probably support him with my nose firmly held. The United States got into bed with Stalin to kick Hitler's ass, after all.

So since the Rohingya are poor, then they should just be left to get murdered by the Burmese? You do realize, of course, that in most people in poor countries, by definition support themselves, because there's no social net?