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What if Texas.............
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #81
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 07:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Say the B12 does have departures of OU, oSu, KU & WVU.
Texas has offers, but does not budge.
The UT people explore if they can create their own, new conference with essentially total control, yet have revenue coming in that is competitive with what was offered by other top conferences.
Assuming with Texas, that TCU, TTU, Baylor, KSU, and ISU remain, that would be six schools.
Texas leads in offers to Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulane.
That would make 10.
Suppose they go further and add Memphis, Cincinnati, USF, and UCF.
That would be 14.
One can change the names with CSU or BYU and such.
I am not breaking them into divisions; you get the point.
Texas would be only highly elite member. Texas may exchange a few very prominent old conference opponents for lesser names in totality, but provide a more submissive group to financially and politically control and dominate.
Would the other P5 conferences keep them in their power fold along with the privileges afforded? I expect so, at least initially and minimumly for that level.
Certainly there would be drawbacks. But I believe Texas will consider such, again if they can financially swing it to their liking. They drop the Big12 name, calling the group something new. They would need a generous network backer.
I am not advocating this; rather trying to anticipate Texas' mindset when the time comes. If the effort fails or results become too lackluster, Texas exits and takes a 'P4' offer.

All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.
07-12-2018 09:19 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #82
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 07:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Say the B12 does have departures of OU, oSu, KU & WVU.
Texas has offers, but does not budge.
The UT people explore if they can create their own, new conference with essentially total control, yet have revenue coming in that is competitive with what was offered by other top conferences.
Assuming with Texas, that TCU, TTU, Baylor, KSU, and ISU remain, that would be six schools.
Texas leads in offers to Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulane.
That would make 10.
Suppose they go further and add Memphis, Cincinnati, USF, and UCF.
That would be 14.
One can change the names with CSU or BYU and such.
I am not breaking them into divisions; you get the point.
Texas would be only highly elite member. Texas may exchange a few very prominent old conference opponents for lesser names in totality, but provide a more submissive group to financially and politically control and dominate.
Would the other P5 conferences keep them in their power fold along with the privileges afforded? I expect so, at least initially and minimumly for that level.
Certainly there would be drawbacks. But I believe Texas will consider such, again if they can financially swing it to their liking. They drop the Big12 name, calling the group something new. They would need a generous network backer.
I am not advocating this; rather trying to anticipate Texas' mindset when the time comes. If the effort fails or results become too lackluster, Texas exits and takes a 'P4' offer.

All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.
07-12-2018 09:33 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #83
RE: What if Texas.............
Personally, I think we're heading for one of two outcomes broadly speaking...

1. I think virtually everyone in the Big 12 will find a home.

or

2. Hardly any of them will find a home.


I've thought for a while that the majority of them would land somewhere, but I'm not so sure anymore. I really don't see the PAC 12 taking anyone unless Texas is involved. They are protected geographically and therefore not likely to break up even if they make less money. And they are probably snobbish enough not to go for any of these secondary schools. Everything would work nice and neatly if they did, but I don't see it. I think it's also possible they could lose Colorado, but I think that would be the only defection.

If Texas and Oklahoma split leagues then maybe a couple more could make it out of the Big 12. Outside of that, I think most of these schools will end up in some amalgamation of the Big 12 and the American.
07-12-2018 09:40 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #84
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 07:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Say the B12 does have departures of OU, oSu, KU & WVU.
Texas has offers, but does not budge.
The UT people explore if they can create their own, new conference with essentially total control, yet have revenue coming in that is competitive with what was offered by other top conferences.
Assuming with Texas, that TCU, TTU, Baylor, KSU, and ISU remain, that would be six schools.
Texas leads in offers to Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulane.
That would make 10.
Suppose they go further and add Memphis, Cincinnati, USF, and UCF.
That would be 14.
One can change the names with CSU or BYU and such.
I am not breaking them into divisions; you get the point.
Texas would be only highly elite member. Texas may exchange a few very prominent old conference opponents for lesser names in totality, but provide a more submissive group to financially and politically control and dominate.
Would the other P5 conferences keep them in their power fold along with the privileges afforded? I expect so, at least initially and minimumly for that level.
Certainly there would be drawbacks. But I believe Texas will consider such, again if they can financially swing it to their liking. They drop the Big12 name, calling the group something new. They would need a generous network backer.
I am not advocating this; rather trying to anticipate Texas' mindset when the time comes. If the effort fails or results become too lackluster, Texas exits and takes a 'P4' offer.

All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.

What do you think about this?

Let's say Texas and Oklahoma decide to give the Big 12 another go around. They do it with the stipulation that the autonomy conferences vote for a champs only format. We could view this as a sort of detente...

We still have 5 leagues, but it's guaranteed that 4 of the champions will make it in. Notre Dame joins in full and stability is increased that much more.

Does anyone actually bother expanding in that environment?

You've got a handful of G5 schools that could theoretically benefit certain leagues. Perhaps there are a couple pieces of the Big 12 that would fit better elsewhere and UT/OU could just replace them with the next best G5 part.

The 5 league system seems to be fairly balanced overall. It's just that there aren't quite enough superpowers to go around. If UT or OU move, however, then the imbalance only gets worse.
07-12-2018 09:48 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #85
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 09:48 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 07:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Say the B12 does have departures of OU, oSu, KU & WVU.
Texas has offers, but does not budge.
The UT people explore if they can create their own, new conference with essentially total control, yet have revenue coming in that is competitive with what was offered by other top conferences.
Assuming with Texas, that TCU, TTU, Baylor, KSU, and ISU remain, that would be six schools.
Texas leads in offers to Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulane.
That would make 10.
Suppose they go further and add Memphis, Cincinnati, USF, and UCF.
That would be 14.
One can change the names with CSU or BYU and such.
I am not breaking them into divisions; you get the point.
Texas would be only highly elite member. Texas may exchange a few very prominent old conference opponents for lesser names in totality, but provide a more submissive group to financially and politically control and dominate.
Would the other P5 conferences keep them in their power fold along with the privileges afforded? I expect so, at least initially and minimumly for that level.
Certainly there would be drawbacks. But I believe Texas will consider such, again if they can financially swing it to their liking. They drop the Big12 name, calling the group something new. They would need a generous network backer.
I am not advocating this; rather trying to anticipate Texas' mindset when the time comes. If the effort fails or results become too lackluster, Texas exits and takes a 'P4' offer.

All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.

What do you think about this?

Let's say Texas and Oklahoma decide to give the Big 12 another go around. They do it with the stipulation that the autonomy conferences vote for a champs only format. We could view this as a sort of detente...

We still have 5 leagues, but it's guaranteed that 4 of the champions will make it in. Notre Dame joins in full and stability is increased that much more.

Does anyone actually bother expanding in that environment?

You've got a handful of G5 schools that could theoretically benefit certain leagues. Perhaps there are a couple pieces of the Big 12 that would fit better elsewhere and UT/OU could just replace them with the next best G5 part.

The 5 league system seems to be fairly balanced overall. It's just that there aren't quite enough superpowers to go around. If UT or OU move, however, then the imbalance only gets worse.

The biggest reason for Oklahoma (and OSU) to leave the Big 12 is to maximize the value of their T3 rights, find a more equal playing field in another conference, and to maximize their exposure in an effort to attract more students from outside of their home state and to do so with a conference that provides constant security instead of constant uncertainty.

So it is generally understood, even by Kansas, that this movement will happen.

Only Texas who is gleaning 15 million a year from the LHN doesn't want the change.

At this point it's probably better for the majority of the Big 12 if we move to 4 P conferences and it would be good for the ACC if it became a P4 with champs only entry into the CFP.
07-12-2018 10:15 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 10:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:48 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.

What do you think about this?

Let's say Texas and Oklahoma decide to give the Big 12 another go around. They do it with the stipulation that the autonomy conferences vote for a champs only format. We could view this as a sort of detente...

We still have 5 leagues, but it's guaranteed that 4 of the champions will make it in. Notre Dame joins in full and stability is increased that much more.

Does anyone actually bother expanding in that environment?

You've got a handful of G5 schools that could theoretically benefit certain leagues. Perhaps there are a couple pieces of the Big 12 that would fit better elsewhere and UT/OU could just replace them with the next best G5 part.

The 5 league system seems to be fairly balanced overall. It's just that there aren't quite enough superpowers to go around. If UT or OU move, however, then the imbalance only gets worse.

The biggest reason for Oklahoma (and OSU) to leave the Big 12 is to maximize the value of their T3 rights, find a more equal playing field in another conference, and to maximize their exposure in an effort to attract more students from outside of their home state and to do so with a conference that provides constant security instead of constant uncertainty.

So it is generally understood, even by Kansas, that this movement will happen.

Only Texas who is gleaning 15 million a year from the LHN doesn't want the change.

At this point it's probably better for the majority of the Big 12 if we move to 4 P conferences and it would be good for the ACC if it became a P4 with champs only entry into the CFP.

Okay, some very rough math.
The PAC 12s FB+BB valuation is about 304 million.
304/28.7 million payout is about 10.6.

So they are making 1 million for every 10.6 million in total valuation average.

In other words, to increase their payout by one million, they need to increase their average valuation by 10.6 million.

Texas on its own could raise the average PAC-12 valuation to 331.2, or enough for about 1.8 million increase on their payout. This does not factor in tag along like Tech if need be.

Which would still be less than Big 12 money, especially with Tier 3 rights.

For Texas, keeping the Big 12 intact is worth it.
07-12-2018 11:59 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #87
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 11:59 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 10:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:48 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

They benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.

What do you think about this?

Let's say Texas and Oklahoma decide to give the Big 12 another go around. They do it with the stipulation that the autonomy conferences vote for a champs only format. We could view this as a sort of detente...

We still have 5 leagues, but it's guaranteed that 4 of the champions will make it in. Notre Dame joins in full and stability is increased that much more.

Does anyone actually bother expanding in that environment?

You've got a handful of G5 schools that could theoretically benefit certain leagues. Perhaps there are a couple pieces of the Big 12 that would fit better elsewhere and UT/OU could just replace them with the next best G5 part.

The 5 league system seems to be fairly balanced overall. It's just that there aren't quite enough superpowers to go around. If UT or OU move, however, then the imbalance only gets worse.

The biggest reason for Oklahoma (and OSU) to leave the Big 12 is to maximize the value of their T3 rights, find a more equal playing field in another conference, and to maximize their exposure in an effort to attract more students from outside of their home state and to do so with a conference that provides constant security instead of constant uncertainty.

So it is generally understood, even by Kansas, that this movement will happen.

Only Texas who is gleaning 15 million a year from the LHN doesn't want the change.

At this point it's probably better for the majority of the Big 12 if we move to 4 P conferences and it would be good for the ACC if it became a P4 with champs only entry into the CFP.

Okay, some very rough math.
The PAC 12s FB+BB valuation is about 304 million.
304/28.7 million payout is about 10.6.

So they are making 1 million for every 10.6 million in total valuation average.

In other words, to increase their payout by one million, they need to increase their average valuation by 10.6 million.

Texas on its own could raise the average PAC-12 valuation to 331.2, or enough for about 1.8 million increase on their payout. This does not factor in tag along like Tech if need be.

Which would still be less than Big 12 money, especially with Tier 3 rights.

For Texas, keeping the Big 12 intact is worth it.

Well, I've been saying all along the PAC doesn't offer enough money to start with to make it worth Texas or Oklahoma's while to head there. I think they are a non factor.

The help the PAC, but the PAC doesn't help them. Part of the SEC's value in them, even with tag-alongs is that we have so many brands to play that the content value is multiplied significantly for all of us if they head here.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2018 07:57 PM by JRsec.)
07-13-2018 12:03 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #88
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 10:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:48 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.

What do you think about this?

Let's say Texas and Oklahoma decide to give the Big 12 another go around. They do it with the stipulation that the autonomy conferences vote for a champs only format. We could view this as a sort of detente...

We still have 5 leagues, but it's guaranteed that 4 of the champions will make it in. Notre Dame joins in full and stability is increased that much more.

Does anyone actually bother expanding in that environment?

You've got a handful of G5 schools that could theoretically benefit certain leagues. Perhaps there are a couple pieces of the Big 12 that would fit better elsewhere and UT/OU could just replace them with the next best G5 part.

The 5 league system seems to be fairly balanced overall. It's just that there aren't quite enough superpowers to go around. If UT or OU move, however, then the imbalance only gets worse.

The biggest reason for Oklahoma (and OSU) to leave the Big 12 is to maximize the value of their T3 rights, find a more equal playing field in another conference, and to maximize their exposure in an effort to attract more students from outside of their home state and to do so with a conference that provides constant security instead of constant uncertainty.

So it is generally understood, even by Kansas, that this movement will happen.

Only Texas who is gleaning 15 million a year from the LHN doesn't want the change.

At this point it's probably better for the majority of the Big 12 if we move to 4 P conferences and it would be good for the ACC if it became a P4 with champs only entry into the CFP.

So basically, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are going to have to move before Texas will be roused up?

Theoretically, UT would see the writing on the wall and move about the same time, but perhaps they have to see life without OU in the league to believe it.
07-13-2018 05:31 AM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #89
RE: What if Texas.............
My expectation is that Texas and Oklahoma will end up in different conferences, whether just one moves or both. Before the B12 creation, they were in separate conferences and had already played the RRR ongoing for many years.

The SEC has been flexible in accommodating traditional OOCs. Not sure all the P4 with increased in-conference game requirements and related scheduling demands shall choose to be eager to let certain OCCs take some priority.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2018 11:13 AM by OdinFrigg.)
07-13-2018 11:07 AM
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Post: #90
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-13-2018 11:07 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  My expectation is that Texas and Oklahoma will end up in different conferences, whether just one moves or both. Before the B12 creation, they were in separate conferences and had already played the RRR ongoing for many years.

The SEC has been flexible in accommodating traditional OOCs. Not sure all the P4 with increased in-conference game requirements and related scheduling demands shall choose to be eager to let certain OCCs take some priority.

The problem for Oklahoma is that if they don't move with Texas then they must move with Oklahoma State in order to maintain the RRR. This would tend to put any move by Oklahoma on some restrictive footing. Only the PAC and SEC could accommodate the Pokes and Sooners. Of those only the SEC would be a step up in revenue. So I like our chances. The question then becomes essentially the same for Texas. Outside of the Big 12 where can they go and have at least 2 instate rivals with them, and play old rivals? And as conferences grow those OOC slots are now down to 3.

This is why an offer by the SEC to both Texas and Oklahoma that included OSU and Tech would be overwhelming enticing. Texas would regain Arkansas and A&M and would play OU in division as well as Tech. And then they would still have 3 OOC games they could use to schedule T.C.U., Baylor, Rice, or S.M.U. if that is what they desired.

So as much as they like to play the role of academic snob, and as much as they like to stick it to us with remarks, should they choose to head elsewhere they are literally cutting their noses off to spite their face where their sports are concerned.

This is why Oklahoma and Oklahoma State represent the best possible move by the SEC. It locks us into an economic category that would only have one rival among the P4, and it positions us for acquiring properties and branding that could make us preeminent. Where else in the SEC do we have 5 schools that command 32 million potential viewers? Only in the SEC east. But even there we don't exactly monopolize those markets. Florida is split, South Carolina is split, Tennessee and Georgia are firmly SEC and Kentucky is relatively SEC.

In Texas and Oklahoma having the 5 top state schools is essentially a monopoly.
07-13-2018 12:26 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #91
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 07:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Say the B12 does have departures of OU, oSu, KU & WVU.
Texas has offers, but does not budge.
The UT people explore if they can create their own, new conference with essentially total control, yet have revenue coming in that is competitive with what was offered by other top conferences.
Assuming with Texas, that TCU, TTU, Baylor, KSU, and ISU remain, that would be six schools.
Texas leads in offers to Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulane.
That would make 10.
Suppose they go further and add Memphis, Cincinnati, USF, and UCF.
That would be 14.
One can change the names with CSU or BYU and such.
I am not breaking them into divisions; you get the point.
Texas would be only highly elite member. Texas may exchange a few very prominent old conference opponents for lesser names in totality, but provide a more submissive group to financially and politically control and dominate.
Would the other P5 conferences keep them in their power fold along with the privileges afforded? I expect so, at least initially and minimumly for that level.
Certainly there would be drawbacks. But I believe Texas will consider such, again if they can financially swing it to their liking. They drop the Big12 name, calling the group something new. They would need a generous network backer.
I am not advocating this; rather trying to anticipate Texas' mindset when the time comes. If the effort fails or results become too lackluster, Texas exits and takes a 'P4' offer.

All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.
I say expand the playoff format and take eight champions. The NCAA BB tourney lets the smaller conferences compete. Why not take the P5, and the top three G5 champs? This would eliminate the need for a committee of so called experts while deciding this on the field. Four quarterfinal bowl games on New Year's Day. Seed them one through eight. If not, there needs to be a separate championship for G5 schools which will never get credit for on-field accomplishments or a bid to play the big game.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2018 12:51 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
07-13-2018 12:47 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #92
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-13-2018 12:47 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 07:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Say the B12 does have departures of OU, oSu, KU & WVU.
Texas has offers, but does not budge.
The UT people explore if they can create their own, new conference with essentially total control, yet have revenue coming in that is competitive with what was offered by other top conferences.
Assuming with Texas, that TCU, TTU, Baylor, KSU, and ISU remain, that would be six schools.
Texas leads in offers to Houston, Rice, SMU, and Tulane.
That would make 10.
Suppose they go further and add Memphis, Cincinnati, USF, and UCF.
That would be 14.
One can change the names with CSU or BYU and such.
I am not breaking them into divisions; you get the point.
Texas would be only highly elite member. Texas may exchange a few very prominent old conference opponents for lesser names in totality, but provide a more submissive group to financially and politically control and dominate.
Would the other P5 conferences keep them in their power fold along with the privileges afforded? I expect so, at least initially and minimumly for that level.
Certainly there would be drawbacks. But I believe Texas will consider such, again if they can financially swing it to their liking. They drop the Big12 name, calling the group something new. They would need a generous network backer.
I am not advocating this; rather trying to anticipate Texas' mindset when the time comes. If the effort fails or results become too lackluster, Texas exits and takes a 'P4' offer.

All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.
I say expand the playoff format and take eight champions. The NCAA BB tourney lets the smaller conferences compete. Why not take the P5, and the top three G5 champs? This would eliminate the need for a committee of so called experts while deciding this on the field. Four quarterfinal bowl games on New Year's Day. Seed them one through eight. If not, there needs to be a separate championship for G5 schools which will never get credit for on-field accomplishments or a bid to play the big game.

You think that if you wish but it's not happening. We aren't adding another week to the season if the conferences don't directly benefit for doing it.

The NCAA basketball tournament only steals from rich to give a pittance to the poor and to line the NCAA's pockets to the tune of 70 million dollars a year which is subsequently placed in one of their two endowments which together total over 1 billion dollars and all of it has come from the tournament where they withhold payouts to the schools for 3 years and then payout averaged credits over 5 years while pocketing the interest on the money while they withhold it.

It's the biggest damn scam in all of college sports.

The little schools Medic all subsidize their football at a rate of 25% or higher which is not helping education and is costing the taxpayers of their respective states a tidy sum so Podunk U can pretend to be Ohio State, Alabama, or Notre Dame. It's wasteful. And at a time when state budgets are massively constricted to waste money on mid tier programs that cannot support their own program without substantial help from the taxpayers is criminal. It needs to end.

We don't need 8 conferences, nor 8 teams in a playoff. We need to downsize the ballooning higher education earmarks and invest in trade schools. And realize soberly that not every Tom, Dick, and Harry small state school needs a football program that it can't support on its own. Having a sports team at a state university is a privilege, not a right. If it is self sustaining then fine. If not then it burdens us all to operate any such entity that loses money.

Having football at UAB and Troy costs a state of just under 4 million people about 50 million a year in subsidies and earmarks. So $10.25 cents comes out of every person in the states pocket just so the city of Birmingham can rape the state for another 6 to 7 million a year for a lease on run down Legion Field so fewer than 20 thousand people can watch football. And so fewer than 20,000 roughly the entire population of Troy Alabama can watch football.

So for the sake of fewer than 40,000 people the taxpayers pay 50 million a year. That's backassward government!

The difference Medic between the P5 and the G5 is that every G5 school requires a 25% subsidy or larger to play football. Only 4 out of the 65 P schools requires more than a 15% subsidy and the rest are under 10% or have none.

We need 4 conferences of about 60 schools playing football because that is the number of programs who could afford to play without any subsidies. And at 60 you don't need 8 schools in a playoff.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2018 01:24 PM by JRsec.)
07-13-2018 01:22 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #93
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-13-2018 01:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-13-2018 12:47 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All it takes to destroy that option is a Champs Only format for the remaining P4. Even if we kept the CFP Selection Committee if Texas's SOS was judged to be lacking the opportunity to make the CFP being missed a few times would be enough to end it.

Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.
I say expand the playoff format and take eight champions. The NCAA BB tourney lets the smaller conferences compete. Why not take the P5, and the top three G5 champs? This would eliminate the need for a committee of so called experts while deciding this on the field. Four quarterfinal bowl games on New Year's Day. Seed them one through eight. If not, there needs to be a separate championship for G5 schools which will never get credit for on-field accomplishments or a bid to play the big game.

You think that if you wish but it's not happening. We aren't adding another week to the season if the conferences don't directly benefit for doing it.

The NCAA basketball tournament only steals from rich to give a pittance to the poor and to line the NCAA's pockets to the tune of 70 million dollars a year which is subsequently placed in one of their two endowments which together total over 1 billion dollars and all of it has come from the tournament where they withhold payouts to the schools for 3 years and then payout averaged credits over 5 years while pocketing the interest on the money while they withhold it.

It's the biggest damn scam in all of college sports.

The little schools Medic all subsidize their football at a rate of 25% or higher which is not helping education and is costing the taxpayers of their respective states a tidy sum so Podunk U can pretend to be Ohio State, Alabama, or Notre Dame. It's wasteful. And at a time when state budgets are massively constricted to waste money on mid tier programs that cannot support their own program without substantial help from the taxpayers is criminal. It needs to end.

We don't need 8 conferences, nor 8 teams in a playoff. We need to downsize the ballooning higher education earmarks and invest in trade schools. And realize soberly that not every Tom, Dick, and Harry small state school needs a football program that it can't support on its own. Having a sports team at a state university is a privilege, not a right. If it is self sustaining then fine. If not then it burdens us all to operate any such entity that loses money.

Having football at UAB and Troy costs a state of just under 4 million people about 50 million a year in subsidies and earmarks. So $10.25 cents comes out of every person in the states pocket just so the city of Birmingham can rape the state for another 6 to 7 million a year for a lease on run down Legion Field so fewer than 20 thousand people can watch football. And so fewer than 20,000 roughly the entire population of Troy Alabama can watch football.

So for the sake of fewer than 40,000 people the taxpayers pay 50 million a year. That's backassward government!

The difference Medic between the P5 and the G5 is that every G5 school requires a 25% subsidy or larger to play football. Only 4 out of the 65 P schools requires more than a 15% subsidy and the rest are under 10% or have none.

We need 4 conferences of about 60 schools playing football because that is the number of programs who could afford to play without any subsidies. And at 60 you don't need 8 schools in a playoff.
So my second option would work for you? Give them a separate championship? If they do not deserve a decent shot at the CFB trophy, they need another path and another championship of their own.04-cheers
07-13-2018 09:25 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #94
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-13-2018 09:25 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-13-2018 01:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-13-2018 12:47 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 09:19 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Well, it depends.

Technically, a champs only format could be done with more than 4 conferences. The requirement would be a conference championship to make the cut, but if you create a stipulation that Power conference champions become automatic qualifiers then that takes on a new meaning.

I think we'll have a very hard time creating an automatic qualifier system for a 4 team CFP until the Power leagues separate and form their own division.

The benefit of a champs only format is that we could force Notre Dame into the ACC and create greater stability. However, I'm not sure all the autonomy leagues would vote for that.

Only the SEC would have a reason to be against it. We are the only one's to have had a legitimate reason to believe we could get two in. Why? Because we did.
I say expand the playoff format and take eight champions. The NCAA BB tourney lets the smaller conferences compete. Why not take the P5, and the top three G5 champs? This would eliminate the need for a committee of so called experts while deciding this on the field. Four quarterfinal bowl games on New Year's Day. Seed them one through eight. If not, there needs to be a separate championship for G5 schools which will never get credit for on-field accomplishments or a bid to play the big game.

You think that if you wish but it's not happening. We aren't adding another week to the season if the conferences don't directly benefit for doing it.

The NCAA basketball tournament only steals from rich to give a pittance to the poor and to line the NCAA's pockets to the tune of 70 million dollars a year which is subsequently placed in one of their two endowments which together total over 1 billion dollars and all of it has come from the tournament where they withhold payouts to the schools for 3 years and then payout averaged credits over 5 years while pocketing the interest on the money while they withhold it.

It's the biggest damn scam in all of college sports.

The little schools Medic all subsidize their football at a rate of 25% or higher which is not helping education and is costing the taxpayers of their respective states a tidy sum so Podunk U can pretend to be Ohio State, Alabama, or Notre Dame. It's wasteful. And at a time when state budgets are massively constricted to waste money on mid tier programs that cannot support their own program without substantial help from the taxpayers is criminal. It needs to end.

We don't need 8 conferences, nor 8 teams in a playoff. We need to downsize the ballooning higher education earmarks and invest in trade schools. And realize soberly that not every Tom, Dick, and Harry small state school needs a football program that it can't support on its own. Having a sports team at a state university is a privilege, not a right. If it is self sustaining then fine. If not then it burdens us all to operate any such entity that loses money.

Having football at UAB and Troy costs a state of just under 4 million people about 50 million a year in subsidies and earmarks. So $10.25 cents comes out of every person in the states pocket just so the city of Birmingham can rape the state for another 6 to 7 million a year for a lease on run down Legion Field so fewer than 20 thousand people can watch football. And so fewer than 20,000 roughly the entire population of Troy Alabama can watch football.

So for the sake of fewer than 40,000 people the taxpayers pay 50 million a year. That's backassward government!

The difference Medic between the P5 and the G5 is that every G5 school requires a 25% subsidy or larger to play football. Only 4 out of the 65 P schools requires more than a 15% subsidy and the rest are under 10% or have none.

We need 4 conferences of about 60 schools playing football because that is the number of programs who could afford to play without any subsidies. And at 60 you don't need 8 schools in a playoff.
So my second option would work for you? Give them a separate championship? If they do not deserve a decent shot at the CFB trophy, they need another path and another championship of their own.04-cheers

I agree with that with one stipulation. They need to scale back on spending so that when they do compete for a separate title they do so without having to receive subsidies to compete. That's all that has ever been needed really.
07-13-2018 09:45 PM
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Post: #95
RE: What if Texas.............
Louisiana, Alabama, North Carolina, Ohio, and even Texas, don't need to be approving any more state schools at the FBS level. There's too much over-saturation already.
07-14-2018 10:21 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #96
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-14-2018 10:21 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Louisiana, Alabama, North Carolina, Ohio, and even Texas, don't need to be approving any more state schools at the FBS level. There's too much over-saturation already.

Precisely! What we have already is unsustainable.
07-14-2018 11:07 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #97
RE: What if Texas.............
Speaking of Texas....


https://twitter.com/BDavisAAS/status/101...56611?s=20

Conversation
Brian Davis
Brian Davis
@BDavisAAS
I can tell you for fact that high-level Texas officials wanted Baylor out of the Big 12 on the spot. But they knew it was more wishful thinking than anything else.
Dennis Dodd
@dennisdoddcbs
Source: Baylor was worried about its ongoing membership in the Big 12 as scandal unfolded. NCAA and Big 12 investigations still going on. (link: https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-unfolded/) cbssports.com/college-footba…
07-15-2018 07:50 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #98
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-15-2018 07:50 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Speaking of Texas....


https://twitter.com/BDavisAAS/status/101...56611?s=20

Conversation
Brian Davis
Brian Davis
@BDavisAAS
I can tell you for fact that high-level Texas officials wanted Baylor out of the Big 12 on the spot. But they knew it was more wishful thinking than anything else.
Dennis Dodd
@dennisdoddcbs
Source: Baylor was worried about its ongoing membership in the Big 12 as scandal unfolded. NCAA and Big 12 investigations still going on. (link: https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-unfolded/) cbssports.com/college-footba…

There's another issue wrapped up in all of this. Should Baylor be censured by the Big 12 and their membership pulled, the conference would have to open back up it's GOR to sign anyone else. And thy might even need to sign a new GOR even if they didn't add anyone else. I don't think Texas wants to touch that issue with a 10 foot pole until they know what the future disposition and or resolution of the conference will be. It could be the perfect cover of Oklahoma and Kansas, and any of their buddies to leave.
07-15-2018 08:07 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #99
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-15-2018 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-15-2018 07:50 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Speaking of Texas....


https://twitter.com/BDavisAAS/status/101...56611?s=20

Conversation
Brian Davis
Brian Davis
@BDavisAAS
I can tell you for fact that high-level Texas officials wanted Baylor out of the Big 12 on the spot. But they knew it was more wishful thinking than anything else.
Dennis Dodd
@dennisdoddcbs
Source: Baylor was worried about its ongoing membership in the Big 12 as scandal unfolded. NCAA and Big 12 investigations still going on. (link: https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-unfolded/) cbssports.com/college-footba…

There's another issue wrapped up in all of this. Should Baylor be censured by the Big 12 and their membership pulled, the conference would have to open back up it's GOR to sign anyone else. And thy might even need to sign a new GOR even if they didn't add anyone else. I don't think Texas wants to touch that issue with a 10 foot pole until they know what the future disposition and or resolution of the conference will be. It could be the perfect cover of Oklahoma and Kansas, and any of their buddies to leave.
Unless something horrible is revealed beyond what is already known, Baylor will stay. If they wanted Baylor out, perhaps moving on it earlier would have been less complicated.
Baylor is tainted for a long time. If the B12 breaks, no other P5 program will touch them. Texas would not want them following anywhere.
07-15-2018 09:47 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #100
RE: What if Texas.............
(07-15-2018 09:47 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(07-15-2018 08:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-15-2018 07:50 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Speaking of Texas....


https://twitter.com/BDavisAAS/status/101...56611?s=20

Conversation
Brian Davis
Brian Davis
@BDavisAAS
I can tell you for fact that high-level Texas officials wanted Baylor out of the Big 12 on the spot. But they knew it was more wishful thinking than anything else.
Dennis Dodd
@dennisdoddcbs
Source: Baylor was worried about its ongoing membership in the Big 12 as scandal unfolded. NCAA and Big 12 investigations still going on. (link: https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-unfolded/) cbssports.com/college-footba…

There's another issue wrapped up in all of this. Should Baylor be censured by the Big 12 and their membership pulled, the conference would have to open back up it's GOR to sign anyone else. And thy might even need to sign a new GOR even if they didn't add anyone else. I don't think Texas wants to touch that issue with a 10 foot pole until they know what the future disposition and or resolution of the conference will be. It could be the perfect cover of Oklahoma and Kansas, and any of their buddies to leave.
Unless something horrible is revealed beyond what is already known, Baylor will stay. If they wanted Baylor out, perhaps moving on it earlier would have been less complicated.
Baylor is tainted for a long time. If the B12 breaks, no other P5 program will touch them. Texas would not want them following anywhere.

I completely agree that if they wanted them out, and they might have, they would have pulled the trigger on this a year ago. Maybe that's why the interviewed the G5 applicants. Maybe they hoped to get rid of Baylor, pick up 3 schools, and quickly ink a new GOR while Boren was there to do it. But when FOX and ESPN didn't want to even pay pro rata for the G5's it kind of knocked that approach in the head.

Texas then realized that giving the Bear the boot would open the GOR anyway and decided to bite their lip and ride it out. At least when the present GOR expires Texas is free of them and then if everyone wants to renew the GOR they can, perhaps replacing Baylor at that time. If the members want to move elsewhere they are free to do so with no obligation whatsoever to the private schools but with some political pressure to take care of the lesser state schools.

I've been watching the Baylor situation since it hit because any action there could have been immediately pivotal. Because moving on it is so risky, and because there is zero political risk by waiting until 2023-4, I think Texas chose the least complicated strategy, which was wise.
07-15-2018 09:55 PM
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