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The end of Canada
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Post: #41
RE: The end of Canada
(12-03-2018 08:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 07:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You really should consider looking at a more nuanced view of Canada. Canada's economy is a LOT more diverse than just Oil Sands petroleum. Its not even Alberta's biggest export (its natural gas). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada. Albertan Crude Oil probably represents somewhere around 3 percent of Canada's economy. Oil is probably no more than 12 percent of the economic output in Alberta and is maybe represents 5 percent of provincial employment.

The Bloomberg link appears to be little more than the Saudis and the Russians agreeing to cut production, and Rachel Notley (the NDP Primier of Alberta) also trying to cut the glut.


Read the link in the top about Alberta cutting oil production by "an unprecedented" amount.

The piece is reminiscent of the struggles of British protectorates at the collapse of the their Empire. Globally that has been an unfolding mess in most places. I say reminiscent because the demise of the EU could be very similar in its affect, although the breakup would be experienced quite differently.

Why do any unions break up? Why do any territories seek independence? The very same reasons that this writer speaks about in Canada today. Wars shift the fortunes of allies and trading partners because wars are fought over access to vital commodities. What Canada has abundantly that the world will be interested in is potable water. Their population hasn't outstripped their ability to supply water.

With Brexit on the horizon and a massive uncertainty over the ability of the EU to hold it together and with some nations being laggards driving down the value of the Euro and driving up costs on everyone, the great social experiment of globalism is teetering. The reasons are the same that every such attempt has failed. They don't have much in common. Some nations are more responsible than others. The EU exists for corporate interests, not the interests of the citizens, and the citizens are fed up.

For those betting on a one term Trump and a new left leaning president bailing this all out dream on. Even if Trump is a one termer, the global population centers will continue to seek out resources, act in their self interests, and cooperation, limited as it already is to trade, will break down and hostilities will break out.

In such a world Canada has no choice but to ally itself with its only true neighbor. Whether that is a closer alliance in all things that maintains Canadian sovereignty or some kind of break up and absorption of various provinces with others treated more as territories than states will depend on whether our interests are one in the same, similar, or disparate. I tend to believe a closer alliance with Canadian sovereignty may be preferable for most in the U.S.. They would tip our balance by thinking that we were better positioned to successfully operate their socialists systems. It is after all the only way they know.

But for those thinking that globalism will be the wave of the future you must not be paying attention to what populations of countries are actually reacting to, and are probably getting all your viewpoints from your corporate employers. These corporations have flourished under treaties that may no longer remain in effect if the balance of the world continues to tilt toward the Far East. And it will. They are the hungry beast in need of raw materials and commodities. If the Near East continues to radicalize, and if Europe becomes nationalistic and xenophobic, which they are in France and Germany to name just two of the EU's bell cows, everything we currently take for granted could be swept away.

I look for the ANZAC alliance to last longer than most. England once independent again will have to get closer to the U.S. again. France and Germany will try to hold a Northern European alliance together and will cut Italy, Greece, Portugal and possibly Spain loose.

Security, self sufficiency in natural resources, and easily defended borders will be the recipe of necessity that will drive the Canadians, and our allies abroad Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain together. Under our technological umbrella and with water, food, and energy resources we are well positioned. Extraneous allies like a rearmed Japan, possibly South Korea, and hopefully some new allies in South America the whole map and way of life might be very different for our grandchildren.

Virtually all of the strategic work the U.S. needs to be doing is in on our borders. Mexico & Cuba are the most urgent to bring under our sphere of influence. After that securing trade with South American countries for the sake of more raw resources will be essential in keeping a check on China and protecting our backyard.

For the United States to be highly successful, we need only to keep outposts on our potential adversaries doorsteps, while we secure our neighborhood.

I see nothing in the future that says we must have world trade to maintain our standard of living. And I see no reason to continue to build up those who are, and will continue to be, our greatest threats.

Globalism will die. Regionalism will thrive. And the cultures closest to our own in philosophy and those most deeply connected to us historically will be all we need to defend ourselves and maintain our way of life and it will be more efficiently and reliably done regionally than through the current system which has already started crumbling.

If you think I'm wrong just count the cost of keeping the status quo. We paid for the defense of Europe. We had to buy off China with unfavorable trade policies. Hell we've even had to mollify Mexico and Canada.

For the losses we have sustained financially in NATO and China Trade, we could easily put that to work building better neighbors on our borders and building trade alliances and putting money to work building infrastructure in South America. And they are a helluva lot easier to potentially defend. New Zealand and Australia would then give us pole to pole defense between our longitudes.

We should have learned from the Romans, Portuguese, Spanish, French and English that global empire is a folly that leads to economic calamity. We have everything we need North and South of us. Maybe we will finally seize the moment and let the rest of the world be.
01-25-2019 10:21 PM
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Post: #42
RE: The end of Canada
(01-25-2019 10:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 08:24 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-03-2018 07:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You really should consider looking at a more nuanced view of Canada. Canada's economy is a LOT more diverse than just Oil Sands petroleum. Its not even Alberta's biggest export (its natural gas). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada. Albertan Crude Oil probably represents somewhere around 3 percent of Canada's economy. Oil is probably no more than 12 percent of the economic output in Alberta and is maybe represents 5 percent of provincial employment.

The Bloomberg link appears to be little more than the Saudis and the Russians agreeing to cut production, and Rachel Notley (the NDP Primier of Alberta) also trying to cut the glut.


Read the link in the top about Alberta cutting oil production by "an unprecedented" amount.

The piece is reminiscent of the struggles of British protectorates at the collapse of the their Empire. Globally that has been an unfolding mess in most places. I say reminiscent because the demise of the EU could be very similar in its affect, although the breakup would be experienced quite differently.

Why do any unions break up? Why do any territories seek independence? The very same reasons that this writer speaks about in Canada today. Wars shift the fortunes of allies and trading partners because wars are fought over access to vital commodities. What Canada has abundantly that the world will be interested in is potable water. Their population hasn't outstripped their ability to supply water.

With Brexit on the horizon and a massive uncertainty over the ability of the EU to hold it together and with some nations being laggards driving down the value of the Euro and driving up costs on everyone, the great social experiment of globalism is teetering. The reasons are the same that every such attempt has failed. They don't have much in common. Some nations are more responsible than others. The EU exists for corporate interests, not the interests of the citizens, and the citizens are fed up.

For those betting on a one term Trump and a new left leaning president bailing this all out dream on. Even if Trump is a one termer, the global population centers will continue to seek out resources, act in their self interests, and cooperation, limited as it already is to trade, will break down and hostilities will break out.

In such a world Canada has no choice but to ally itself with its only true neighbor. Whether that is a closer alliance in all things that maintains Canadian sovereignty or some kind of break up and absorption of various provinces with others treated more as territories than states will depend on whether our interests are one in the same, similar, or disparate. I tend to believe a closer alliance with Canadian sovereignty may be preferable for most in the U.S.. They would tip our balance by thinking that we were better positioned to successfully operate their socialists systems. It is after all the only way they know.

But for those thinking that globalism will be the wave of the future you must not be paying attention to what populations of countries are actually reacting to, and are probably getting all your viewpoints from your corporate employers. These corporations have flourished under treaties that may no longer remain in effect if the balance of the world continues to tilt toward the Far East. And it will. They are the hungry beast in need of raw materials and commodities. If the Near East continues to radicalize, and if Europe becomes nationalistic and xenophobic, which they are in France and Germany to name just two of the EU's bell cows, everything we currently take for granted could be swept away.

I look for the ANZAC alliance to last longer than most. England once independent again will have to get closer to the U.S. again. France and Germany will try to hold a Northern European alliance together and will cut Italy, Greece, Portugal and possibly Spain loose.

Security, self sufficiency in natural resources, and easily defended borders will be the recipe of necessity that will drive the Canadians, and our allies abroad Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain together. Under our technological umbrella and with water, food, and energy resources we are well positioned. Extraneous allies like a rearmed Japan, possibly South Korea, and hopefully some new allies in South America the whole map and way of life might be very different for our grandchildren.

Virtually all of the strategic work the U.S. needs to be doing is in on our borders. Mexico & Cuba are the most urgent to bring under our sphere of influence. After that securing trade with South American countries for the sake of more raw resources will be essential in keeping a check on China and protecting our backyard.

For the United States to be highly successful, we need only to keep outposts on our potential adversaries doorsteps, while we secure our neighborhood.

I see nothing in the future that says we must have world trade to maintain our standard of living. And I see no reason to continue to build up those who are, and will continue to be, our greatest threats.

Globalism will die. Regionalism will thrive. And the cultures closest to our own in philosophy and those most deeply connected to us historically will be all we need to defend ourselves and maintain our way of life and it will be more efficiently and reliably done regionally than through the current system which has already started crumbling.

If you think I'm wrong just count the cost of keeping the status quo. We paid for the defense of Europe. We had to buy off China with unfavorable trade policies. Hell we've even had to mollify Mexico and Canada.

For the losses we have sustained financially in NATO and China Trade, we could easily put that to work building better neighbors on our borders and building trade alliances and putting money to work building infrastructure in South America. And they are a helluva lot easier to potentially defend. New Zealand and Australia would then give us pole to pole defense between our longitudes.

We should have learned from the Romans, Portuguese, Spanish, French and English that global empire is a folly that leads to economic calamity. We have everything we need North and South of us. Maybe we will finally seize the moment and let the rest of the world be.

Every system outlives its usefulness.

People built empires by simply taking and holding other lands.
The Romans and others began hybriding the process occupying some, requiring "tribute" or tax in exchange for not being occupied and agreeing to defend.
You needed the gold or silver or valuable product physically moved.

The English and then the US adopted a mercantile empire basically we don't waste a lot of effort or interest in your day-to-day affairs, just send us your output, and we will send you our output of processed goods.
Less overhead but still physically moving the products.

The needs for formal alliance and union is changing because the currency for the transactions no longer has to physically change hands, if I recall correctly more than 80% of all currency in the world does not exist in a physical form now.

There is less conversion. Most milk is sold in liters. Beef in kilograms. The need for the third party to break bulk is mostly gone. Poultry is so vertically integrated now that there is no middle man buying single chickens to create a rail car of chickens which is then broken into truckloads and then into consumer portions.

You pretty much have to go along with the western economies rules of the game or you can't make money because your compliance and bulk breaking costs are too high.

The need of an EU to facilitate commonality is less important when the beer brewer in Belgium has grown his business so large that he needs more than customers in Belgium, he's going to adjust and nations that put up barriers face higher prices because of the annoyance cost to the seller.
01-29-2019 02:57 PM
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Post: #43
RE: The end of Canada
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau...-1.5211103

"...It's not just the province's federal voting record that poses a challenge to the governing party. The newly elected United Conservatives under Premier Jason Kenney came to power on an anti-Trudeau message — vowing to stand up to Ottawa.

There's also a growing sense of alienation in the province.

"Recent polling indicates that as many as 50 per cent of Albertans indicate that they support the concept of secession from the Canadian federation," Kenney said during a visit to Ottawa in May...."
07-23-2019 08:37 PM
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Post: #44
RE: The end of Canada
https://www.vicnews.com/opinion/letter-p...territory/

"...Secondly, preventing Alberta oil from getting to market safely and effectively is causing alienation within Alberta and driving it perilously close to secession from Canada. Presently, Alberta contributes a net amount of $19 billion annually to the rest of Canada. The people of Alberta are being manhandled by people who deny the province of Alberta the ability to carry on its main industry. If Alberta votes to secede from Canada then we are in extremely fragile and dangerous territory...."
07-23-2019 08:42 PM
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Post: #45
RE: The end of Canada
https://globalnews.ca/news/5236705/alber...-industry/

"...That poll said 71 per cent of Albertans feel they are not getting the respect their province deserves, while a majority of respondents in that province, as well as neighbouring Saskatchewan, said they get so few benefits from Confederation that they might as well secede...."
07-23-2019 08:47 PM
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