Ohio picked to win the East, UT second in the West behind NIU.

(06-10-2018 10:28 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Ohio picked to win the East, UT second in the West behind NIU.

I really don’t see that happening. I honestly think the QB is going be much better than anyone expected and our D will be better

Athlon predicts that Kareem Hunt and Jaylen Sanford will give Toledo the best defensive tackle combination in the league. I think they’ve gotten better but they DID list a guy who had been gone for two years as a likely starter and once listed a basketball player as a key football reserve once, back in the mid 90s.

Athlon Magazine. Don't read what those knuckleheads have to say. What do they know. I can see Ohio in the east, but, NIU in the west?
We have the #1 recruiting class in the MAC, more depth at all positions, best Stadium/Facilities anywhere not just in the MAC, highest paid coach (for a reason), we are loaded with talent, play one of the toughest schedules in the MAC and have the best overall football program since the dawn of time.

GO ROCKETS !!!!!

With Woodside and Swanson gone, Athlon almost assumes Offensive production will dramatically drop. Big thing is they didn't look at historical point production. The Rockets' scoring average hasn't varied but a few points since Beckman took over the program. It has continued with Campbell and Candle. I don't expect any significant drop in points scored. Defense has really been the thing that has been the determiner of a good or great season for the Rockets. Athlon talks about the Toledo being the MAC's #7 Defense last season, but fails to mention UT was the #1 Scoring Defense in MAC games. Another irksome thing is a number of starters that were injured and lost during the season are not considered as returning staters in their analysis.

(06-10-2018 10:57 AM)Babes boy Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 10:28 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Ohio picked to win the East, UT second in the West behind NIU.

I really don’t see that happening. I honestly think the QB is going be much better than anyone expected and our D will be better

But that really is the unknown, right- QB? Reason why some may be predicting falloff in offense production??

Irksome. I love that word. Many valid points. I do not know why injured returning starters are not taken into account? They also failed to mention the plethora of Wide Receivers we have. Granted Woodside is gone, but, the QB's we have are very capable of delivering the ball in the hands of our talented Wide Receivers.

(06-11-2018 10:11 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  Irksome. I love that word. Many valid points. I do not know why injured returning starters are not taken into account? They also failed to mention the plethora of Wide Receivers we have. Granted Woodside is gone, but, the QB's we have are very capable of delivering the ball in the hands of our talented Wide Receivers.

But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:11 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  Irksome. I love that word. Many valid points. I do not know why injured returning starters are not taken into account? They also failed to mention the plethora of Wide Receivers we have. Granted Woodside is gone, but, the QB's we have are very capable of delivering the ball in the hands of our talented Wide Receivers.

But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

QBs are only as good as those that block for them(also don't forget the penalties/bad snaps. etc). You only have to look at the Ohio and Appalachian State games from last season to know that is true. A great QB can make a marginal OL look better. My biggest question is the play at Center and OG positions.

(06-11-2018 11:13 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

QBs are only as good as those that block for them(also don't forget the penalties/bad snaps. etc). You only have to look at the Ohio and Appalachian State games from last season to know that is true. A great QB can make a marginal OL look better. My biggest question is the play at Center and OG positions.

Agree with both. If it's Mitch, he's a good QB. We just don't know how good yet.

(06-11-2018 11:50 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 11:13 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

QBs are only as good as those that block for them(also don't forget the penalties/bad snaps. etc). You only have to look at the Ohio and Appalachian State games from last season to know that is true. A great QB can make a marginal OL look better. My biggest question is the play at Center and OG positions.

Agree with both. If it's Mitch, he's a good QB. We just don't know how good yet.

He has the best receivers in the league, and good RB room too.

(06-11-2018 12:16 PM)utrocks84 Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 11:50 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 11:13 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

QBs are only as good as those that block for them(also don't forget the penalties/bad snaps. etc). You only have to look at the Ohio and Appalachian State games from last season to know that is true. A great QB can make a marginal OL look better. My biggest question is the play at Center and OG positions.

Agree with both. If it's Mitch, he's a good QB. We just don't know how good yet.

He has the best receivers in the league, and good RB room too.

Athlon has them as the #8 Receiving Unit in the Nation:
1 Ole Miss
2 WVU
3 Oklahoma
4 South Carolina
5 Alabama
6 NC State
7 Clemson
8 Toledo
9 Ohio State
10 Mizzou
12 U Miami
17 Mich State
22 UM
24 Fresno State

(06-11-2018 11:13 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:11 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  Irksome. I love that word. Many valid points. I do not know why injured returning starters are not taken into account? They also failed to mention the plethora of Wide Receivers we have. Granted Woodside is gone, but, the QB's we have are very capable of delivering the ball in the hands of our talented Wide Receivers.

But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

QBs are only as good as those that block for them(also don't forget the penalties/bad snaps. etc). You only have to look at the Ohio and Appalachian State games from last season to know that is true. A great QB can make a marginal OL look better. My biggest question is the play at Center and OG positions.

IMO, play at QB will not be the defining issue this coming season. Simply too many weapons on offense, and I'm choosing to believe that someone on the roster will step up & play within themselves well enough to take advantage of those weapons--it may or may not be the first guy up. I agree that the key factors will be the O line play, and I'll add the D as well. Too many times we got chewed up by speed on the outside. Give the new QB time to make a read on one side of the line of scrimmage & keep opponents in front of us instead of chasing them down from behind & we will be fine.

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:11 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  Irksome. I love that word. Many valid points. I do not know why injured returning starters are not taken into account? They also failed to mention the plethora of Wide Receivers we have. Granted Woodside is gone, but, the QB's we have are very capable of delivering the ball in the hands of our talented Wide Receivers.

But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

I remember thinking that after Huzjak graduated in 1996 - and we were left with some guy name Chris Wallace to take over. Same with losing Chester Taylor in 1996 and we had to deal with a replacement nicknamed the "D" Train (Dwayne Harris). Wallace also had Curry, Kreitzburg, Mel Long Jr., Mace Freeman, and 2 tight ends that caught 47 passes for over 600 yards to help Wallace fit in nicely. It would be a bigger issue for us if we had won the MAC in 2017 with Thompson playing - but he didn't and will be back for 2018. Just think how good we would have been with Thompson all season. We were so much better than every other team (with major hiccups against Ohio and Appy State) that I don't expect the drop off to be that significant.

Both lines should be much better than last year as well. Only need experience - the size and athleticism is there. I think the coaching is also solid for the lineman. The real key for us is at center, and no injuries that takes key guys out. Too bad we lost Adenyi (sp?) - but getting Skipper back will offset that loss reasonably well. We didn't have him after Miami game and only the first play of that game as I remember.

Just looked at the current 2018 roster and it shows the following for:

Defensive line (excluding any true freshman but includes JC transfer, and Derrius Mullins)
Number of players - 12
Avg. Hght 6' 3"
Avg. Wght 281

Defensive Ends:
Number of players - 7
Avg. Hght 6'2 7/8"
Avg. Wght 242

That is a total of 19 players to cover essentially 4 positions along the Defensive Line. The really good news is that everyone of those players have a solid shot of getting a decent amount of playing time. There are no Spielmans in the group (ie - DII or DIII players trying to play DI football). Only 2 will be seniors (Skipper and Reggie Howard). I remember saying last year we would be loaded on the DL - and that was before Adeneyi opted to go pro and before I knew Skipper was coming back. It is even better than I expected looking at who played and the size of the guys that were redshirting or are coming in as freshman.

Add to the above the plethora (love that word) of linebackers we added - along with moving Fisher to LB from TE and we should be very solid - perhaps the best LB corp in the past decade at least.

We are probably weakest right now in the defensive backfield as far as depth goes. We get Clark back who was injured much of the year and will have a total of 6 letterman returning. Also have a solid JC transfer coming in. Not sure if any freshman will crack the line-up.

Offensive Line will be very strong as well. We know we are strong at RB. WR's - best ever in my memory. Rosi at TE. QB IS a question, but they could almost pull a guy from the intramural field and win 8 games next year.

(06-11-2018 06:31 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:11 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  Irksome. I love that word. Many valid points. I do not know why injured returning starters are not taken into account? They also failed to mention the plethora of Wide Receivers we have. Granted Woodside is gone, but, the QB's we have are very capable of delivering the ball in the hands of our talented Wide Receivers.

But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

I remember thinking that after Huzjak graduated in 1996 - and we were left with some guy name Chris Wallace to take over. Same with losing Chester Taylor in 1996 and we had to deal with a replacement nicknamed the "D" Train (Dwayne Harris). Wallace also had Curry, Kreitzburg, Mel Long Jr., Mace Freeman, and 2 tight ends that caught 47 passes for over 600 yards to help Wallace fit in nicely. It would be a bigger issue for us if we had won the MAC in 2017 with Thompson playing - but he didn't and will be back for 2018. Just think how good we would have been with Thompson all season. We were so much better than every other team (with major hiccups against Ohio and Appy State) that I don't expect the drop off to be that significant.

Both lines should be much better than last year as well. Only need experience - the size and athleticism is there. I think the coaching is also solid for the lineman. The real key for us is at center, and no injuries that takes key guys out. Too bad we lost Adenyi (sp?) - but getting Skipper back will offset that loss reasonably well. We didn't have him after Miami game and only the first play of that game as I remember.

Wasn’t a kid from Monroe Michigan (Cole?) named the QB starter before Wallace? Or am I way off?

(06-11-2018 11:16 PM)Babes boy Wrote:  Wasn’t a kid from Monroe Michigan (Cole?) named the QB starter before Wallace? Or am I way off?

Not way off, just a little off. It was Tarvares Bolden, not Chris Wallace who beat out Dan Cole for the starting QB position a few games into the 1999 season. At the time it was said that Cole always looked amazing in practices but just couldn't quite bring that same performance to game day. Bolden took over and the team turned their season around and finished strong with three convincing wins thus setting the stage for the near perfect 2000 season.

(06-11-2018 12:16 PM)utrocks84 Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 11:50 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 11:13 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

QBs are only as good as those that block for them(also don't forget the penalties/bad snaps. etc). You only have to look at the Ohio and Appalachian State games from last season to know that is true. A great QB can make a marginal OL look better. My biggest question is the play at Center and OG positions.

Agree with both. If it's Mitch, he's a good QB. We just don't know how good yet.

He has the best receivers in the league, and good RB room too.

Oh I agree team is well set at the skill positions and to some degree at OL, my only point is that I can see season predictions being muted because until a QB plays you really do not know what you have and the best to hope for is still likely a drop from Woodside. If recent MAC champs have shown anything, success in the MAC relies on solid if not great QB play and UT at this point really not sure of what it has.

(06-11-2018 07:41 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  Just looked at the current 2018 roster and it shows the following for:

Defensive line (excluding any true freshman but includes JC transfer, and Derrius Mullins)
Number of players - 12
Avg. Hght 6' 3"
Avg. Wght 281

Defensive Ends:
Number of players - 7
Avg. Hght 6'2 7/8"
Avg. Wght 242

That is a total of 19 players to cover essentially 4 positions along the Defensive Line. The really good news is that everyone of those players have a solid shot of getting a decent amount of playing time. There are no Spielmans in the group (ie - DII or DIII players trying to play DI football). Only 2 will be seniors (Skipper and Reggie Howard). I remember saying last year we would be loaded on the DL - and that was before Adeneyi opted to go pro and before I knew Skipper was coming back. It is even better than I expected looking at who played and the size of the guys that were redshirting or are coming in as freshman.

Add to the above the plethora (love that word) of linebackers we added - along with moving Fisher to LB from TE and we should be very solid - perhaps the best LB corp in the past decade at least.

We are probably weakest right now in the defensive backfield as far as depth goes. We get Clark back who was injured much of the year and will have a total of 6 letterman returning. Also have a solid JC transfer coming in. Not sure if any freshman will crack the line-up.

Offensive Line will be very strong as well. We know we are strong at RB. WR's - best ever in my memory. Rosi at TE. QB IS a question, but they could almost pull a guy from the intramural field and win 8 games next year.

DB unit is probably #1 or #2 in the MAC. Williams, Bauer, Sutherland all could contribute as Freshmen.

(06-12-2018 10:20 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 12:16 PM)utrocks84 Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 11:50 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 11:13 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 10:45 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  But without extensive college game experience we really do not know what we have in terms of QBs? Big jump from HS to college backup to college starter. only way to know is when they are thrown into fire.

QBs are only as good as those that block for them(also don't forget the penalties/bad snaps. etc). You only have to look at the Ohio and Appalachian State games from last season to know that is true. A great QB can make a marginal OL look better. My biggest question is the play at Center and OG positions.

Agree with both. If it's Mitch, he's a good QB. We just don't know how good yet.

He has the best receivers in the league, and good RB room too.

Oh I agree team is well set at the skill positions and to some degree at OL, my only point is that I can see season predictions being muted because until a QB plays you really do not know what you have and the best to hope for is still likely a drop from Woodside. If recent MAC champs have shown anything, success in the MAC relies on solid if not great QB play and UT at this point really not sure of what it has.

I look at the offensive line - and I think we are in very good shape there. We may not have that 3X MAC first teamer, but look at what we do have:

Returning letterman and (S)=starter at some point during P/Y

Cotterman (S) 6'3 296
Heidecker (S) 6'6 312
Bell 6'8 345
Doerger (S) 6'2 285
Kassem (S) 6'4 320 (shows as being eligible, but was shown as a senior last year) Checked - he is not eligible. Had 2 years at a JC, redshirted a year, did not play in 2016 and 2017 was a senior
Ruble (Transfer) 6'8 325
Harris (S) 6'3 285
Atariwa (S) 6'4 315

Add to that some prize Redshirts coming in:

Mitch Berg 6'6" 305
Kadonis Haslem 6'5" 295
Kelvin Ateman 6'6" 315

That is an average of just over 6'5" and 308. And most of these guys are all athletic and not just big.

Of the guys we lost - Nkansah was probably the biggest loss. Weiss had a ton of false start calls against him. Jeppeson was an adequate center, but we have been spoiled at that position over the years.

Biggest concern - do we have a true center among the group? I was not impressed with Harris playing at center to cover for injuries, but the issue was mostly with his snaps in the shotgun - it was pretty bad. And also probably why Jeppeson came back a little early from injury.