Tub was more con than people wanted to see/admit. I don’t know if he even knew it, though.
He might have been convinced he did it the right way.

(06-08-2018 10:08 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 09:49 AM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  To have a shot at a final 4 run/championship in 2019, we have to have 2 of Wiseman/Watford/Hurt plus another high level 4 star (Lawson?).

Exactly true and exactly my point. Without them we should be the type of team that Tubby should have had here; a tournament team that might overachieve Andre make the Sweet 16.

Who?

The bottom line is Tubby can’t recruit like Penny (especially if we start landing 5 Star prospects). People knew from his track record that he wasn’t going to recruit on the same level as we’re accustomed to. Anyways, it’s water under the bridge.

I think he’s a good floor coach, but he fell woefully short of expectations in recruiting and media relations. People had it out for him from the beginning, but he was never the right fit.

(06-07-2018 10:45 PM)Nobody4Prez Wrote:  best thing about this class is they are all top 200 players and will likely play 4 years of ball

I'd rather have a mid-elite squad cuz in 2-3 years they will all be experienced upper classmen

a well rounded roster of above average players is the key to making deep runs in the ncaa

butler and nova has proven the model

Great post. Tubby absolutely underachieved but at least a decent core is in place for these young guys to learn from and build around.

(06-07-2018 02:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Virtually all of Penny's recruits are in the range that should have been attainable by Tubby and a hard working staff after his 1st season; which is in line with an NCAA team that could overachieve to make the Sweet 16.

We will find out in the next year or so if Penny is able to close the deal on top 50 recruits to turn us into a team that can reach the 2nd weekend of the tournament. I am betting that he can.

if you're still sitting around thing about Tubby...well, it's time to hire a therapist.

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

The problem with this, especially the examples you used, is it goes against the Tubs building it the right way 4-5 year approach.

You say he has 16s at 3 different schools and a championship.

Tulsa, Sweet 16 year 3
Georgia Sweet 16 year 1
KY NC year 1.

why is it after he had all that success he now needs 4-5 years to build a program?

Seems to me he got lazy after he started making the big money and his ego convinced him that all he needed to do was show up for one phase of his job and throw a bunch of "this isnt the Memphis of 10 years ago" "Memphis kids don't want to go to Memphis anymore" etc.

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

I think your post is spot on, except for one thing, were we supposed to sit back and wait?

Why should we wait when other programs hire a coach that brings fairly immediate results?

If anything, it was the administration's fault, I don't think Tubby lied when he interviewed, they knew what his vision was.

So … all the vitriol against Tubby … direct it against the folks that hired the Tub.

I was of the opinion that Tubby would be able to recruit Memphis, that turned out to be incorrect. There are probably a number of reasons, Keelon, lack of effort, Penny, the dumpster fire that was left him …

Regardless, I think Tubby was a terrible hire, but a good guy. I don't think he lied to anyone about his vision for the program, and I believe that in a few more years, he would've gotten us back to the tourney. I also believe that the slow motion vision that Tubby had wasn't good for the program and he had to go.

Tubby was a horrible coach. Maybe 30 years ago he wasn't, but he was perfectly happy just going through the motions. He wasn't trying to win a championship, even an AAC championship. He was simply doing as little as he possibly could to get his pay check.

Any coach with that resume and that amount of respect (deserved or not) should be able to have a top 25 team and a good seed in the NCAAs. He never even tried. He was 3 years in and his recruiting was horrible. He was happy we finished above 9th in the AAC.

(06-09-2018 07:54 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

The problem with this, especially the examples you used, is it goes against the Tubs building it the right way 4-5 year approach.

You say he has 16s at 3 different schools and a championship.

Tulsa, Sweet 16 year 3
Georgia Sweet 16 year 1
KY NC year 1.

why is it after he had all that success he now needs 4-5 years to build a program?

Seems to me he got lazy after he started making the big money and his ego convinced him that all he needed to do was show up for one phase of his job and throw a bunch of "this isnt the Memphis of 10 years ago" "Memphis kids don't want to go to Memphis anymore" etc.

because Memphis was in a bad spot when he came in. the program was literally being held hostage by two kids and their dad.

I give Tubs props for sticking to his guns and holding the Lawson's feet to the fire...but I also blame him for being WAY too stubborn with having Saul on staff. you can't tear up Keelon for taking care of his boys when you're handing a job he hasn't earned over to Saul.

It's not like it used to be where a newly hired coach with a title ring will get at least 4 seasons...it doesn't work like that anymore.

I wish him nothing but success at HPU

(06-10-2018 10:30 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 07:54 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

The problem with this, especially the examples you used, is it goes against the Tubs building it the right way 4-5 year approach.

You say he has 16s at 3 different schools and a championship.

Tulsa, Sweet 16 year 3
Georgia Sweet 16 year 1
KY NC year 1.

why is it after he had all that success he now needs 4-5 years to build a program?

Seems to me he got lazy after he started making the big money and his ego convinced him that all he needed to do was show up for one phase of his job and throw a bunch of "this isnt the Memphis of 10 years ago" "Memphis kids don't want to go to Memphis anymore" etc.

because Memphis was in a bad spot when he came in. the program was literally being held hostage by two kids and their dad.

I give Tubs props for sticking to his guns and holding the Lawson's feet to the fire...but I also blame him for being WAY too stubborn with having Saul on staff. you can't tear up Keelon for taking care of his boys when you're handing a job he hasn't earned over to Saul.

It's not like it used to be where a newly hired coach with a title ring will get at least 4 seasons...it doesn't work like that anymore.

I wish him nothing but success at HPU

Being held hostage? Of course you are one of those guys...whatever...

(06-10-2018 11:20 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 10:30 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 07:54 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

The problem with this, especially the examples you used, is it goes against the Tubs building it the right way 4-5 year approach.

You say he has 16s at 3 different schools and a championship.

Tulsa, Sweet 16 year 3
Georgia Sweet 16 year 1
KY NC year 1.

why is it after he had all that success he now needs 4-5 years to build a program?

Seems to me he got lazy after he started making the big money and his ego convinced him that all he needed to do was show up for one phase of his job and throw a bunch of "this isnt the Memphis of 10 years ago" "Memphis kids don't want to go to Memphis anymore" etc.

because Memphis was in a bad spot when he came in. the program was literally being held hostage by two kids and their dad.

I give Tubs props for sticking to his guns and holding the Lawson's feet to the fire...but I also blame him for being WAY too stubborn with having Saul on staff. you can't tear up Keelon for taking care of his boys when you're handing a job he hasn't earned over to Saul.

It's not like it used to be where a newly hired coach with a title ring will get at least 4 seasons...it doesn't work like that anymore.

I wish him nothing but success at HPU

Being held hostage? Of course you are one of those guys...whatever...

yep, I'm totally one of those guys...I go around finding the best in people and try my best to have fun on this spinning rock flying through space :-)

(06-07-2018 05:06 PM)cmt Wrote:  It is truly amazing what a pzz poor job the previous staff did. Embarrassingly amazing, how Tubby, in good conscience, cashes those checks says a whole lot about the real Mr. Smith.

Agreed. That plus forcing his son on the staff at the expense of recruiting is enough to nullify any Hall of Fame rumor.

(06-10-2018 10:30 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 07:54 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

The problem with this, especially the examples you used, is it goes against the Tubs building it the right way 4-5 year approach.

You say he has 16s at 3 different schools and a championship.

Tulsa, Sweet 16 year 3
Georgia Sweet 16 year 1
KY NC year 1.

why is it after he had all that success he now needs 4-5 years to build a program?

Seems to me he got lazy after he started making the big money and his ego convinced him that all he needed to do was show up for one phase of his job and throw a bunch of "this isnt the Memphis of 10 years ago" "Memphis kids don't want to go to Memphis anymore" etc.

because Memphis was in a bad spot when he came in. the program was literally being held hostage by two kids and their dad.

I give Tubs props for sticking to his guns and holding the Lawson's feet to the fire...but I also blame him for being WAY too stubborn with having Saul on staff. you can't tear up Keelon for taking care of his boys when you're handing a job he hasn't earned over to Saul.

It's not like it used to be where a newly hired coach with a title ring will get at least 4 seasons...it doesn't work like that anymore.

I wish him nothing but success at HPU

Two things...It was stupid to demote Keelon unless he was sure hecould keep him and his sons on board or he felt he could replace that talent.

Second did Penny EARN this job? I am glad we have him but he didn't go through the grind most college coaches go through to get to this point.

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

There is simply nothing that indicates this is true. In fact, in two years he would have been losing the core of his roster and his lackluster recruiting during his tenure leaves no reason to believe he would have been replacing them with better players, meaning at best similar results and likely worse. We didn't give him 4 or 5 years because it was painfully obvious that time was not the issue with Tubby and Memphis. It was personality, culture, recruiting, and a hundred other things, none of which was changing with any amount of time...

(06-11-2018 09:47 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

There is simply nothing that indicates this is true.

of course there is. Tubby took the Tigers from 19 to 21 wins and from 9 AAC wins to 10 AAC wins...Memphis was getting better. Tubby recruited solid kids like Jamal Johnson, Myreon Jones, and David Nickelberry.

Tubby also has the unique ability to get a rag-tag group to come together and play (as seen in the AAC tourney this season)

those skills will serve Tubby well at HPU.

(06-11-2018 08:09 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 10:30 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 07:54 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

The problem with this, especially the examples you used, is it goes against the Tubs building it the right way 4-5 year approach.

You say he has 16s at 3 different schools and a championship.

Tulsa, Sweet 16 year 3
Georgia Sweet 16 year 1
KY NC year 1.

why is it after he had all that success he now needs 4-5 years to build a program?

Seems to me he got lazy after he started making the big money and his ego convinced him that all he needed to do was show up for one phase of his job and throw a bunch of "this isnt the Memphis of 10 years ago" "Memphis kids don't want to go to Memphis anymore" etc.

because Memphis was in a bad spot when he came in. the program was literally being held hostage by two kids and their dad.

I give Tubs props for sticking to his guns and holding the Lawson's feet to the fire...but I also blame him for being WAY too stubborn with having Saul on staff. you can't tear up Keelon for taking care of his boys when you're handing a job he hasn't earned over to Saul.

It's not like it used to be where a newly hired coach with a title ring will get at least 4 seasons...it doesn't work like that anymore.

I wish him nothing but success at HPU

did Penny EARN this job? I am glad we have him but he didn't go through the grind most college coaches go through to get to this point.

when you prove you have THAT much sway with recruits, yeah...Penny earned it because we need an influx of local talent.

The story of Tubby’s failure (starting from the disastrous hiring of his son saga and ending with his mouthpiece denying or shifting Tubby’s responsibility for results) has been well chronicled. I wish Tubby well, but he is gone and I am glad he is gone.

My focus is on the present and Penny is off to a nearly flawless start.

(06-11-2018 09:59 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 09:47 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

There is simply nothing that indicates this is true.

of course there is. Tubby took the Tigers from 19 to 21 wins and from 9 AAC wins to 10 AAC wins...Memphis was getting better. Tubby recruited solid kids like Jamal Johnson, Myreon Jones, and David Nickelberry.

Tubby also has the unique ability to get a rag-tag group to come together and play (as seen in the AAC tourney this season)

those skills will serve Tubby well at HPU.

Well, you pretty much made my point... What were our strength of schedules between the two years. Did those two extra wins position us for a post season appearance, why not?

Nickelberry was gone but beyond that, one sub 100 player a year is not positioning us to become a better basketball program. It was clear we were not improving and were not going to be anytime soon. The boosters would not have eaten his contract and moved on if they believed we would be in the NCAA tournament within a year or two.

(06-11-2018 12:56 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 09:59 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 09:47 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(06-09-2018 03:39 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 07:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  I don't know but I grew very weary of the Tub lovers who kept repeating the "he does it the right way" nonsense. No, he uses that as an excuse. Plenty of coaches do it the right way and actually get it done. Penny is doing it the right way. There were a group of people on here that seemed convinced anyone who got a top 150 recruit was cheating because the Tub way says that you have to pay players if they are top 150.

yet he has an NCAA Title and has taken 3 programs to the Sweet 16.

Tubby is a fine coach. His style simply wasn't a good fit at Memphis.

He would have turned Memphis around...in about 2-3 more seasons. We just aren't/were't willing to sit back and give a coach 4 to 5 years like teams used to be.

There is simply nothing that indicates this is true.

of course there is. Tubby took the Tigers from 19 to 21 wins and from 9 AAC wins to 10 AAC wins...Memphis was getting better. Tubby recruited solid kids like Jamal Johnson, Myreon Jones, and David Nickelberry.

Tubby also has the unique ability to get a rag-tag group to come together and play (as seen in the AAC tourney this season)

those skills will serve Tubby well at HPU.

Well, you pretty much made my point... What were our strength of schedules between the two years. Did those two extra wins position us for a post season appearance, why not?

Nickelberry was gone but beyond that, one sub 100 player a year is not positioning us to become a better basketball program. It was clear we were not improving and were not going to be anytime soon. The boosters would not have eaten his contract and moved on if they believed we would be in the NCAA tournament within a year or two.

I believe the boosters felt like in a year or two it would all be too late...a slow rebuild isn't our thing.