(06-05-2018 09:53 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 02:20 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Is this a problem of population shifting causing changes in traffic flow? Secor was somewhat adequate when there was 60,000 more people in the City and the University had a larger enrollment. And yes OH has a tax problem, not only would they lose on the property taxes, but also on Village Income Tax.

Yes it would appear population shifts towards West Toledo, Sylvannia, and also north of Central/Monroe (plus redevelopment at Westgate/Secor/475 corridor), has resulted in more north-south traffic using Secor Road. Another reason I do not think Dorr/475 project will completely resolve Secor-Bancroft programs since a good portion of that traffic is not UT board-especially from starting points south of Toledo.

Perhaps I am wrong but also not so sure large numbers of Ann Arbor starting traffic coming to UT will continue down and use new Dorr St exit, while avoiding Secor. If they wanted to avoid Secor they already have options including Central and Corey Rd exits.

The population has actually been growing to the outlying southern/western areas of Toledo, not the North/West. Sylvania/Sylvania Township saw their significant increases in the 70's and 80's with a tail off in the 90s and fairly flat population since (roughly 5% growth over the last decade) while the northwest sections of Toledo (Franklin Park/Alexis Corridor) and the Toledo facing section of Sylvania Township (inside 475) have actually seen population decline. By comparison Perrysburg/Perrysburg Township (+31%), Whitehouse/Monclova (+49%), and the Waterville area (+10%) have all grown much more considerably in the same time, thus contributing to the growing traffic issues many of us experience on a daily basis on the 23/475 Northbound corridor. As a greater impact, the Dorr interchange will alleviate some of that mess simply with the addition of another egress.

Also, AA is not a significant contributor of students to UT (~70 students per year out of a total intake of ~3,000 DHS students come from Washtenaw County and they all must live on campus with the 25 mile rule)...by comparison, Anthony Wayne has sent an average of 85 students per year, Perrysburg an average of 70, and Springfield/Maumee a combined 80 (while they won't contribute to the 23/475 traffic as most of them would just run surface streets) over the last three years. Hell there are probably more faculty/staff who live in AA than students, and they'd never use Dorr anyways, not a direct path.

(06-05-2018 10:08 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 09:53 AM)PaulJ Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 02:20 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Is this a problem of population shifting causing changes in traffic flow? Secor was somewhat adequate when there was 60,000 more people in the City and the University had a larger enrollment. And yes OH has a tax problem, not only would they lose on the property taxes, but also on Village Income Tax.

Yes it would appear population shifts towards West Toledo, Sylvannia, and also north of Central/Monroe (plus redevelopment at Westgate/Secor/475 corridor), has resulted in more north-south traffic using Secor Road. Another reason I do not think Dorr/475 project will completely resolve Secor-Bancroft programs since a good portion of that traffic is not UT board-especially from starting points south of Toledo.

Perhaps I am wrong but also not so sure large numbers of Ann Arbor starting traffic coming to UT will continue down and use new Dorr St exit, while avoiding Secor. If they wanted to avoid Secor they already have options including Central and Corey Rd exits.

The population has actually been growing to the outlying southern/western areas of Toledo, not the North/West. Sylvania/Sylvania Township saw their significant increases in the 70's and 80's with a tail off in the 90s and fairly flat population since (roughly 5% growth over the last decade) while the northwest sections of Toledo (Franklin Park/Alexis Corridor) and the Toledo facing section of Sylvania Township (inside 475) have actually seen population decline. By comparison Perrysburg/Perrysburg Township (+31%), Whitehouse/Monclova (+49%), and the Waterville area (+10%) have all grown much more considerably in the same time, thus contributing to the growing traffic issues many of us experience on a daily basis on the 23/475 Northbound corridor. As a greater impact, the Dorr interchange will alleviate some of that mess simply with the addition of another egress.

Also, AA is not a significant contributor of students to UT (~70 students per year out of a total intake of ~3,000 DHS students come from Washtenaw County and they all must live on campus with the 25 mile rule)...by comparison, Anthony Wayne has sent an average of 85 students per year, Perrysburg an average of 70, and Springfield/Maumee a combined 80 (while they won't contribute to the 23/475 traffic as most of them would just run surface streets) over the last three years. Hell there are probably more faculty/staff who live in AA than students, and they'd never use Dorr anyways, not a direct path.

I was referring more to main campus faculty as I know of many who commute in daily when classes are in session from Ann Arbor, West Toledo, and Sylvania, and I know 19,000 students are more than 6,000 staff, but of the faculty staff I know, none drive in each day from Maumee, Perrysburg or from UI75 south of Toledo. I still don't believe-whether we are talking students or staff - that Dorr/I475 is really going to change the daily commute for many of those already heading to UT main campus-but again it will have many other local and regional benefits to that corridor both east and west of the interchange.

(06-05-2018 12:27 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  I was referring more to main campus faculty as I know of many who commute in daily when classes are in session from Ann Arbor, West Toledo, and Sylvania, and I know 19,000 students are more than 6,000 staff, but of the faculty staff I know, none drive in each day from Maumee, Perrysburg or from UI75 south of Toledo. I still don't believe-whether we are talking students or staff - that Dorr/I475 is really going to change the daily commute for many of those already heading to UT main campus-but again it will have many other local and regional benefits to that corridor both east and west of the interchange.

Completely agree, I don't think the UT traffic is the primary reason behind the exit, but I do believe it will have a marked impact. If you figure the commuter population (both faculty/staff and students) runs 10,000 deep, and geographically half of that population comes from the south (again, big assumption), there is a chance that it could move the lower end of 1,500 or so vehicles (only 30% of the northbound commuting population on this general hypothetical based off of general assumptions) off of Secor...that just depends on their prior driving habits (whether they chose to get off on Airport or on Central/Secor). For the record, most of the faculty and staff on my side of campus live in Perrysburg/Maumee/Whitehouse...I think it's very hit or miss.

The project was obviously done with many factors in mind, but the UT commute and traffic mitigation in the Westgate area were two of them.

(06-05-2018 01:16 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 12:27 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  I was referring more to main campus faculty as I know of many who commute in daily when classes are in session from Ann Arbor, West Toledo, and Sylvania, and I know 19,000 students are more than 6,000 staff, but of the faculty staff I know, none drive in each day from Maumee, Perrysburg or from UI75 south of Toledo. I still don't believe-whether we are talking students or staff - that Dorr/I475 is really going to change the daily commute for many of those already heading to UT main campus-but again it will have many other local and regional benefits to that corridor both east and west of the interchange.

Completely agree, I don't think the UT traffic is the primary reason behind the exit, but I do believe it will have a marked impact. If you figure the commuter population (both faculty/staff and students) runs 10,000 deep, and geographically half of that population comes from the south (again, big assumption), there is a chance that it could move the lower end of 1,500 or so vehicles (only 30% of the northbound commuting population on this general hypothetical based off of general assumptions) off of Secor...that just depends on their prior driving habits (whether they chose to get off on Airport or on Central/Secor). For the record, most of the faculty and staff on my side of campus live in Perrysburg/Maumee/Whitehouse...I think it's very hit or miss.

The project was obviously done with many factors in mind, but the UT commute and traffic mitigation in the Westgate area were two of them.

I just hope that using Door/I475 project as excuse for not addressing Secor between Westgate and Bancroft does not go on way into the future as improvements (if just limited to proper lane widths) needs to remain a priority as issues-and in my view traffic volumes-are only going to continue to get worse.