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O’Quinn on his no vote
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Blzer4Life Offline
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Post: #41
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-03-2018 10:54 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  
(04-03-2018 10:23 AM)the_blazerman Wrote:  Their houses actually might be bought in the process for a lot more than they are actually worth.
Win / Win.

it's not a win/win if they don't want to move. I know it's shocking, but the pursuit of money is not the end all be all goal of every human being on the planet

^This
04-03-2018 02:35 PM
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the Dragon Offline
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Post: #42
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
I respect the views of those who opposed this stadium, but I believe their opposition (be it concern for gentrification, a desire to have a dome instead, a belief that a new stadium isn't needed, or some other reason) is not in the best interests of Birmingham as a whole. I think the people who favored this plan did a great job of letting people speak and have their say, but in the end, the reasons to support the plan far outweighed the concerns.

We saw the democratic process work. The choice was made. Now, hopefully, some of those with concerns will be won over when this stadium is a smashing success. Of course, not everyone will be happy, but I hope most people will.

On a side note, I hope the concern about racial issues will continue to decline. Watching the council meeting, I saw some black people who were worried about "those white people over the hill" (of which I am one). I know I am a white suburbanite, and so I have no vote in Birmingham matters, but I am also one who will spend money in Birmingham as I attend events in the new stadium. So, I hope black and white people from this area can start to see a common interest in success for the city and put away the negative attitudes and concerns that understandably stem from our city's past sins.

UAB is very diverse, and I see our UAB Family as a somewhat united group made up of many races and political viewpoints. Generally, we are learning each others' sensitivities, and we are learning to find our common ground and build on it. I hope that spreads throughout the Bham metro area.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2018 02:56 PM by the Dragon.)
04-03-2018 02:55 PM
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legalblazer Offline
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Post: #43
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
I listened to the city counsel meeting and some of what I heard was nasty, racist, class warfare rhetoric that if followed would do nothing more than perpetuate the status quo for another few decades.

San Francisco, perhaps the most liberal city in the country, has not found a solution to the downsides of gentrification. Neither has New York City. Harlem is where the young professional couples move now. There are photos and film to record what it used to be like - the good and the bad.

The Birmingham City Council is not going to solve this issue by spewing vitriol at each other or further delaying something that should have happened long ago. This was probably the last best chance.

Everyone is free to continue to seek that elusive solution, meanwhile a vacant lot adjacent to already gentrified space will be turned into a replacement for 90 year old failing infrastructure sitting in a blighted neighborhood (that despite how safe it might be on a UAB gameday would be on most people's top 5 list of places in Birmingham you would not want to be dropped off at night without your phone).

You make investments like this where they are most likely to succeed as a business, not based on community politics or attempts to undo perceived past wrongs. Take a look at Visionland to see how well that strategy works.. or further back, bumper boats and mini-golf at Fair Park.

The city cannot keep holding on for what could have been when that door closed a quarter of a century ago. Use this as a springboard. Successful UAB partnership, successful bowl games, concerts, maybe (another) one of those startup alternative pro football leagues... who knows where that might lead - but it is progress and momentum in that area is what Birmingham desperately needs.
04-03-2018 03:30 PM
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BAMANBLAZERFAN Online
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Post: #44
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
I don't know of any who supported the MPF choice who was saying "Build the MPF or build nothing at all". We simply had our opinion that the MPF was the best choice for that location with the greatest potential for growth for the city's future.

Now that the choice has been made to build the BJCC Stadium, we hope for the sake of the metro area that it is as successful as its proponents believed, and that its fan amenities are all that have been hoped. We sincerely pray that it does not become a case of "Visionland at the BJCC". A major component of the city's and its metro area's future economic development is riding on it.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2018 05:16 PM by BAMANBLAZERFAN.)
04-03-2018 04:45 PM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #45
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-03-2018 04:45 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  "Visionland at the BJCC".

Visionland was run by the BJCC?
04-04-2018 07:34 AM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #46
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
A domed stadium would have been closer to "Visionland at the BJCC", an ill-advised boondoggle that the city and county can't even come close to affording with no business plan and no prospect of ever succeeding
04-04-2018 08:45 AM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #47
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 08:45 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  A domed stadium would have been closer to "Visionland at the BJCC", an ill-advised boondoggle that the city and county can't even come close to affording with no business plan and no prospect of ever succeeding

Not trying to hijack the topic, but Visionland failing just boggles the mind. I've been a season pass holder at Splash Adventure going on my third year, and I just can't imagine how they didn't make money with that thing. The new owners have it rolling along great.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2018 10:10 AM by imjustafatkid.)
04-04-2018 10:07 AM
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Post: #48
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
I understand why the people in the neighborhoods north of the BJCC are worried. They saw what happened in Avondale. Many on this board look at Avondale as a huge success, turning a run-down old neighborhood into what has become one of the featured attraction areas to the young and hip, to tourists.

The people who had lived there for years got pushed out. Rising property values are of no value when you rent your home cheap because you don't make that much. Low income housing is of great value to those who need it. This has resulted in an odd sort of reverse NIMBY, where poor people don't want to see such things happen close to them, because if they get pushed out there are very limited supplies of replacement housing at that price point. Even if they own their homes, their property taxes double or triple.

I think the stadium is a smart project, long overdue, even aside from the UAB connection. Regions/Railroad Parks were smart, and they paid off very well and will continue to for years. My wife worked in that neighborhood for twenty-nine years, most of it where Regions Field sits now, across the street from the Sherwin-Williams store. When Regions was going in, her office moved to the corner of 2nd Ave S and 18th St, a block from RR Park. I saw first hand in detail what it did for the neighborhood. I've driven through Avondale for years going from Irondale to UAB, and again, I am well aware of the changes in that area, good and bad.

I guess my point is that while there were a number of dissenting opinions which were self-serving ("Screw a stadium, spend it in my neighborhood") or politically motivated ("Grease my palm first or you don't get my vote", or "I'm fine with doing it, but I want to channel it in such a way that my friends and I get a piece, so let's delay it while I work on that", or "I'll stand in the door and fight it so my district will remember and vote for me"). Then there are the ill-informed who are full of wishful thinking ("We should build a Dome instead, it will be nicer, and what about if it rains?") who refuse to comprehend, no matter how often it is explained, that the city simply cannot afford to build a dome. The old "Wish in one hand and poop in the other and see which one fills up first" seems to apply to that crowd.

The local neighborhood associations represent people whose homes are on the line. I suspect that there are not many members of those groups who are going to benefit from a land boom on Northside. They deserved an honest hearing of their concerns, even if they were overridden for what was considered to be the greater good.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2018 10:59 AM by UAB Band Dad.)
04-04-2018 10:49 AM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #49
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 10:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  The local neighborhood associations represent people whose homes are on the line. I suspect that there are not many members of those groups who are going to benefit from a land boom on Northside. They deserved an honest hearing of their concerns, even if they were overridden for what was considered to be the greater good.

I realize this is their concern, but it completely falls on deaf ears with me. For decades it's been nonstop whining about how white people moved out of urban areas and everything went to crap and it's our fault, and now we get complaints because young white people drank the kool-aid they were served and moved in. I just have no sympathy for that. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own situation. Everything can't be the fault of the other guy.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2018 11:02 AM by imjustafatkid.)
04-04-2018 11:01 AM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #50
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 11:01 AM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 10:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  The local neighborhood associations represent people whose homes are on the line. I suspect that there are not many members of those groups who are going to benefit from a land boom on Northside. They deserved an honest hearing of their concerns, even if they were overridden for what was considered to be the greater good.

I realize this is their concern, but it completely falls on deaf ears with me. For decades it's been nonstop whining about how white people moved out of urban areas and everything went to crap and it's our fault, and now we get complaints because young white people drank the kool-aid they were served and moved in. I just have no sympathy for that. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own situation. Everything can't be the fault of the other guy.

Well, the first thing you've gotten wrong there is that the people who are left and actually live there and are complaining about gentrification aren't the ones who complained about white flight.
04-04-2018 11:27 AM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #51
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 11:27 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  Well, the first thing you've gotten wrong there is that the people who are left and actually live there and are complaining about gentrification aren't the ones who complained about white flight.

Doesn't change what I said. Young white people started moving into those areas because we were all berated with the nonsense that it was wrong for white people to leave those areas. If these folks didn't want this to happen, they shouldn't have let those voices be the loudest.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2018 11:46 AM by imjustafatkid.)
04-04-2018 11:45 AM
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kdblazer Offline
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Post: #52
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 11:01 AM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 10:49 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  The local neighborhood associations represent people whose homes are on the line. I suspect that there are not many members of those groups who are going to benefit from a land boom on Northside. They deserved an honest hearing of their concerns, even if they were overridden for what was considered to be the greater good.

I realize this is their concern, but it completely falls on deaf ears with me. For decades it's been nonstop whining about how white people moved out of urban areas and everything went to crap and it's our fault, and now we get complaints because young white people drank the kool-aid they were served and moved in. I just have no sympathy for that. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own situation. Everything can't be the fault of the other guy.
This is not a racial issue but more or less a information issue. I don't know where or how you got to posting that but that's off base for this discussion at least in my opinion.
04-04-2018 11:51 AM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #53
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 11:51 AM)kdblazer Wrote:  This is not a racial issue but more or less a information issue. I don't know where or how you got to posting that but that's off base for this discussion at least in my opinion.

You clearly didn't watch the council meeting about the stadium. You should go back and watch it so you can realize how much of a racial issue this is. At one point someone even complained that "those white people" got representation on the Water Works Board as an example of how "they" will take this stadium from "us." It may not be a racial issue for you or me, but it is certainly a racial issue for the representatives of Birmingham neighborhoods who spoke at that meeting.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2018 01:16 PM by imjustafatkid.)
04-04-2018 01:12 PM
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kdblazer Offline
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Post: #54
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 01:12 PM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 11:51 AM)kdblazer Wrote:  This is not a racial issue but more or less a information issue. I don't know where or how you got to posting that but that's off base for this discussion at least in my opinion.

You clearly didn't watch the council meeting about the stadium. You should go back and watch it so you can realize how much of a racial issue this is. At one point someone even complained that "those white people" got representation on the Water Works Board as an example of how "they" will take this stadium from "us." It may not be a racial issue for you or me, but it is certainly a racial issue for the representatives of Birmingham neighborhoods who spoke at that meeting.
Unfortunately miss guided individuals seek their 5 minutes of fame during council meetings but that doesn't reflect the entire Druid Hills neighborhood. The best thing to combat that kind of sentiment is economic prosperity. Birmingham as well as Alabama like many other places have historical imbalances of resources (wealth)
the only vehicle that helps improve that is economics.
04-04-2018 01:34 PM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #55
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 01:34 PM)kdblazer Wrote:  The best thing to combat that kind of sentiment is economic prosperity. Birmingham as well as Alabama like many other places have historical imbalances of resources (wealth) the only vehicle that helps improve that is economics.

Totally agreed.
04-04-2018 02:02 PM
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Post: #56
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 11:45 AM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 11:27 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  Well, the first thing you've gotten wrong there is that the people who are left and actually live there and are complaining about gentrification aren't the ones who complained about white flight.

Doesn't change what I said. Young white people started moving into those areas because we were all berated with the nonsense that it was wrong for white people to leave those areas. If these folks didn't want this to happen, they shouldn't have let those voices be the loudest.

Piffle. You don't move somewhere because you were berated about other people fleeing the area thirty years ago. That's nonsense.

You move there because you can rent cool loft space for cheap. You move there because it's closer to work or school, or because you're sick of making the commute into town on 65 or 280. You do it because you see that the area is starting to gentrify but property is still cheap and you stand to make money on your investment. You move because you see that Birmingham is finally bringing downtown back to life, with cool restaurants and coffee shops and civic life. You move there for funky old neighborhoods, and trees, and neighborhoods with character instead of strip malls, Subways, and Taco Bells.

People's motives are their own, and they vary, but I bet you could take a survey of the last ten thousand people who moved back to Birmingham proper and not get one who answered that he moved there because he felt guilt over white flight decades ago.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2018 11:03 AM by UAB Band Dad.)
04-04-2018 09:01 PM
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legalblazer Offline
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Post: #57
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
04-04-2018 10:11 PM
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TheGORILLA Offline
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Post: #58
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
Cut the mustard! When is ground-breaking?
04-05-2018 02:00 AM
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Post: #59
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
This thread is about politics...vote your interest and vote we claim victory and move the thread.
04-05-2018 07:54 AM
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Post: #60
RE: O’Quinn on his no vote
(04-04-2018 10:11 PM)legalblazer Wrote:  North Birmingham is doomed...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...-6-million

At the risk of stating the obvious, Birmingham isn't San Francisco. We also don't have the sort of salaries or the shortage of housing that are driving those price increases.
04-05-2018 11:05 AM
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