(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

It is Kenpom, the difference in conference affiliation has been accounted for. In fact it because of conference affiliation that WSU numbers as good as they are. Even with WSU defensive numbers being down, their offense was better and held up against quality teams in the AAC. But D win championships - just ask Cincy.

(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

Worst defensive team? Yes. Worst team? No

(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

That is a good point. WSU can still write the book on how this season will be remembered. The numbers I posted are snapshot as of today and will be different after next weekend either for the better or worse.

(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

KenPom is not the sole factor when determining tournament seeding. I think that's pretty much a given.

We actually only lost 2 more games than last year. That will have little impact on the rating.

(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:36 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  I thought it was a fun year. Conference play was very entertaining and fun. WSU got their 2nd best seed under Marshall, and this is probably one of his worst teams to make the NCAA.

I can see how AAC could be 4-5 seed league if some teams don't have some bad luck.

That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

No, that was a couple of our misguided fans.

The vast majority of us with a brain knew the AAC was a step up from the MVC. I felt we'd lose around 4 conference games, but that we'd be in the mix for a conference title right up until the end.

I love that we can have what many of us felt was a "disappointing" year and end up with a 4 seed.

THAT is why we love being in the AAC. I think it's great Cincy got a 2, and I feel Houston is underseeded.

I think us joining the conference has been incredibly beneficial for everyone involved, and it was proven today.

(03-11-2018 11:36 PM)Rocky Mountain Shock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:36 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  I thought it was a fun year. Conference play was very entertaining and fun. WSU got their 2nd best seed under Marshall, and this is probably one of his worst teams to make the NCAA.

I can see how AAC could be 4-5 seed league if some teams don't have some bad luck.

That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

No, that was a couple of our misguided fans.

The vast majority of us with a brain knew the AAC was a step up from the MVC. I felt we'd lose around 4 conference games, but that we'd be in the mix for a conference title right up until the end.

I love that we can have what many of us felt was a "disappointing" year and end up with a 4 seed.

THAT is why we love being in the AAC. I think it's great Cincy got a 2, and I feel Houston is underseeded.

I think us joining the conference has been incredibly beneficial for everyone involved, and it was proven today.

Yall have a great team and I agree with what some have already said, that your season is still being written. If yall bring your absolute A game (i.e. what we saw the first time our teams played) then I believe yall can beat anybody in the country.

(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

I agree with your ranks.

The weird thing is we have the exact same players in 2018, as we did in 2017. Yes there were some injuries (early), and other factors that obviously have influenced.

(03-11-2018 11:36 PM)Rocky Mountain Shock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:36 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  I thought it was a fun year. Conference play was very entertaining and fun. WSU got their 2nd best seed under Marshall, and this is probably one of his worst teams to make the NCAA.

I can see how AAC could be 4-5 seed league if some teams don't have some bad luck.

That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

No, that was a couple of our misguided fans.

The vast majority of us with a brain knew the AAC was a step up from the MVC. I felt we'd lose around 4 conference games, but that we'd be in the mix for a conference title right up until the end.

I love that we can have what many of us felt was a "disappointing" year and end up with a 4 seed.

THAT is why we love being in the AAC. I think it's great Cincy got a 2, and I feel Houston is underseeded.

I think us joining the conference has been incredibly beneficial for everyone involved, and it was proven today.

Yeh, it feels like the rumor that most of the seeds were already done deals. I bet even if Cincy had lost today they'd still been a 2 and we'd still be the 6.

Not complaining this year because I was happy as all get out when we were projected as a 9.

Why was the AAC the last team to play their champ game when the ACC and others finished Saturday and the selection committee was already picking seeds?

(03-11-2018 11:54 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 11:36 PM)Rocky Mountain Shock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:36 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  I thought it was a fun year. Conference play was very entertaining and fun. WSU got their 2nd best seed under Marshall, and this is probably one of his worst teams to make the NCAA.

I can see how AAC could be 4-5 seed league if some teams don't have some bad luck.

That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

No, that was a couple of our misguided fans.

The vast majority of us with a brain knew the AAC was a step up from the MVC. I felt we'd lose around 4 conference games, but that we'd be in the mix for a conference title right up until the end.

I love that we can have what many of us felt was a "disappointing" year and end up with a 4 seed.

THAT is why we love being in the AAC. I think it's great Cincy got a 2, and I feel Houston is underseeded.

I think us joining the conference has been incredibly beneficial for everyone involved, and it was proven today.

Yall have a great team and I agree with what some have already said, that your season is still being written. If yall bring your absolute A game (i.e. what we saw the first time our teams played) then I believe yall can beat anybody in the country.

And I think Houston has proven the same. You guys remind me A LOT of our 2013 final four team. You play balls out every minute of the game, you're tough, you're gritty, play great defense, and have a couple of guys that can light up the net. I think you can make a deep run. Good luck!

(03-12-2018 12:02 AM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 11:36 PM)Rocky Mountain Shock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:36 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  I thought it was a fun year. Conference play was very entertaining and fun. WSU got their 2nd best seed under Marshall, and this is probably one of his worst teams to make the NCAA.

I can see how AAC could be 4-5 seed league if some teams don't have some bad luck.

That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

No, that was a couple of our misguided fans.

The vast majority of us with a brain knew the AAC was a step up from the MVC. I felt we'd lose around 4 conference games, but that we'd be in the mix for a conference title right up until the end.

I love that we can have what many of us felt was a "disappointing" year and end up with a 4 seed.

THAT is why we love being in the AAC. I think it's great Cincy got a 2, and I feel Houston is underseeded.

I think us joining the conference has been incredibly beneficial for everyone involved, and it was proven today.

Yeh, it feels like the rumor that most of the seeds were already done deals. I bet even if Cincy had lost today they'd still been a 2 and we'd still be the 6.

Not complaining this year because I was happy as all get out when we were projected as a 9.

Why was the AAC the last team to play their champ game when the ACC and others finished Saturday and the selection committee was already picking seeds?

TV

(03-12-2018 12:07 AM)AndShock Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 12:02 AM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 11:36 PM)Rocky Mountain Shock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

No, that was a couple of our misguided fans.

The vast majority of us with a brain knew the AAC was a step up from the MVC. I felt we'd lose around 4 conference games, but that we'd be in the mix for a conference title right up until the end.

I love that we can have what many of us felt was a "disappointing" year and end up with a 4 seed.

THAT is why we love being in the AAC. I think it's great Cincy got a 2, and I feel Houston is underseeded.

I think us joining the conference has been incredibly beneficial for everyone involved, and it was proven today.

Yeh, it feels like the rumor that most of the seeds were already done deals. I bet even if Cincy had lost today they'd still been a 2 and we'd still be the 6.

Not complaining this year because I was happy as all get out when we were projected as a 9.

Why was the AAC the last team to play their champ game when the ACC and others finished Saturday and the selection committee was already picking seeds?

TV

Ya, fair enough. Our champ game may have had no effect on seedings, but we did get prime OTA TV exposure, and that's an investment that pays itself back in the long run.

(03-11-2018 08:29 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 08:19 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  A 4 seed after losing in the conference semifinals.

3 AAC teams with Top 6 seeds. Injuries kept us from getting 4-5.

I'm happy.

I was disappointed in conference tournament attendance. Looked low-majorish.

I'm surprised how underrated the league is. Now we need to go out and prove it this week.

Conference attendance will be better served in Texas, Memphis, or Tulsa. UCF and USF are football schools, first.

I think once UCF gets a taste of sustained success one of these days, we have the fanbase to show up, but all Florida sports, UCF or USF included, are for the most part fairweather. We need winners to pack the house. Just look at the Jags, Heat, or any other pro team.

The only CONSISTENTLY packed house in Florida are the Tampa Bay Lightning and, lo and behold, they win consistently.

To think that a Florida NHL hockey team is playing lights out and filling arenas. What has this world come to?

(03-12-2018 12:07 AM)AndShock Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 12:02 AM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 11:36 PM)Rocky Mountain Shock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

No, that was a couple of our misguided fans.

The vast majority of us with a brain knew the AAC was a step up from the MVC. I felt we'd lose around 4 conference games, but that we'd be in the mix for a conference title right up until the end.

I love that we can have what many of us felt was a "disappointing" year and end up with a 4 seed.

THAT is why we love being in the AAC. I think it's great Cincy got a 2, and I feel Houston is underseeded.

I think us joining the conference has been incredibly beneficial for everyone involved, and it was proven today.

Yeh, it feels like the rumor that most of the seeds were already done deals. I bet even if Cincy had lost today they'd still been a 2 and we'd still be the 6.

Not complaining this year because I was happy as all get out when we were projected as a 9.

Why was the AAC the last team to play their champ game when the ACC and others finished Saturday and the selection committee was already picking seeds?

TV

Specifically, the AAC got the B1G vacated spots on CBS for both AAC semi final games and the AAC Championship. My understanding is that this was a one shot deal. But it was a shrewd move by Aresco and gave us three CBS national games and we took advantage of that with three of the four teams ranked and all three games tight and good. Should add to the cause when its time for TV negotiations as I assume the ratings for all three games were solid (our regular season games had great ratings...see UC @ WSU to end the regular season).

(03-11-2018 06:12 PM)capnkirk Wrote:  I love the fact that we are challenged in conference, can lose conference games, not win the conference tourney and still make the ncaa tourney and even have a decent seed.

Last year, Wichita St went 17-1 in conf play then 3-0 in conf tourn (20-1) and ended up a #10 seed.

This year, Shockers go 14-4 and then just 1-1 in conf tournament and end up as a #4 seed.

That’s why Shockers joined the AAC, plus hopefully tougher conf game start will help them while in the NCAA’s.

(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:02 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Still a very good team. And not the "worst" to make the NCAA tourney.

Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

you also played garbage conference for all those other seasons... better competition = more loses. that doesn't mean that your team is bad

I was really surprised WSU didn't run the table in conference play and win the tournament as well. They are one of the greatest programs in the history of sports, college or pro. The only time they have ever lost a game is when there is some internal conflict with them or the refs conspired to screw them over.

I'd be surprised if anyone stays within 30 points of them in the NCAA tournament. The fact the refs stole the AAC tourament semi-final game from WSU actually gives them some extra rest leading into the tournament. Everyone knows WSU would have won the title anyway, so it really isn't a big deal. As long as the refs don't conspire against them or something happens to cause internal strife to the team (pet frog dies or something) they are going to run the table in March Madness.

Then we can all look forward to a YouTube video of how loud the celebration was after winning the NCAA title. Maybe we can split screen it with one of the Shockers MVC tournament remixes - be sure to turn it up loud!

Seriously, I hope all 3 AAC teams go deep in tournament and I think they will. There are only one or two Shocks fans that the post above is dedicated too. Crazy how even the AAC top 3 teams were, but glad there is only one regular season and tournament champion. Go Cats!