(03-12-2018 05:43 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 05:28 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Three team$ that de$erved to be in the tourney before the 34th placed team in the Big 10:

Vermont
MTSU
ETSU

All about the money folk$.

Because they have combined for zero wins against the top 8 conferences?

And none of the teams from those conferences will come to their gyms and play. And, of course they do not because a loss there hurts them at selection time. For all the liberal inclusion rhetoric flowing from higher education today, not much of it has made its way into their athletic departments that are party to a strict caste system.

(03-12-2018 08:57 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 05:43 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 05:28 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Three team$ that de$erved to be in the tourney before the 34th placed team in the Big 10:

Vermont
MTSU
ETSU

All about the money folk$.

Because they have combined for zero wins against the top 8 conferences?

And none of the teams from those conferences will come to their gyms and play. And, of course they do not because a loss there hurts them at selection time. For all the liberal inclusion rhetoric flowing from higher education today, not much of it has made its way into their athletic departments that are party to a strict caste system.

It actually is getting even worse than that. Home wins are discounted in the new quadrant system, only wins away from home, either at another team's venue or a neutral site, carry any real weight. So now, major conference teams won't have to refuse to come to play you, if you are a mid-major and are good, they simply don't schedule you and next will come pressure on early season tournaments to not invite good mid-majors. If I were to be an alarmist, I would say that it will come to a point where major conference teams with losing records, not just conference records but overall, will start taking the place of mid-majors in the NCAA tournament.

(03-12-2018 08:57 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 05:43 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 05:28 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Three team$ that de$erved to be in the tourney before the 34th placed team in the Big 10:

Vermont
MTSU
ETSU

All about the money folk$.

Because they have combined for zero wins against the top 8 conferences?

And none of the teams from those conferences will come to their gyms and play. And, of course they do not because a loss there hurts them at selection time. For all the liberal inclusion rhetoric flowing from higher education today, not much of it has made its way into their athletic departments that are party to a strict caste system.

Vermont played KY, Marquette and St Bonnie - all losses
ETSU played KY and Xavier - both losses
MT beat Vandy in Nashville, Ole Miss at home and lost to Auburn, Miami and USC with the latter two at neutral site.
Thats 2-8 combined with the 2 wins being against SEC bottom dwellers.

As for getting home games, many many many of these mid-majors would rather go on the road for a big check than take a home game in a 3000 seat arena. And yes even ETSU is better off taking $100 grand from KY and Xavier than playing to 6000 at Freedom Hall. If the NCAA had the slightest bit of foresight they'd turn the NIT into a national championship tourney of its own for all those NOT in the P5 plus 1 or 2 conferences. At least the mid-majors could stop whining then.

(03-12-2018 10:27 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  Vermont played KY, Marquette and St Bonnie - all losses
ETSU played KY and Xavier - both losses
MT beat Vandy in Nashville, Ole Miss at home and lost to Auburn, Miami and USC with the latter two at neutral site.
Thats 2-8 combined with the 2 wins being against SEC bottom dwellers.

I'm not going to rehash the arguments but every analytic site out there talks about how unfair it is for the mid majors. Syracuse and Oklahoma being in is a joke.

(03-12-2018 10:27 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  If the NCAA had the slightest bit of foresight they'd turn the NIT into a national championship tourney of its own for all those NOT in the P5 plus 1 or 2 conferences. At least the mid-majors could stop whining then.

Yeah, I don't know of any non-power conference school that really wants to be in the NIT. If you are in a power conference and don't make the big dance then your season should be over. The NCAA will eventually not even entertain the idea of a mid major getting an at large.

(03-12-2018 10:54 AM)brock20 Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 10:27 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  Vermont played KY, Marquette and St Bonnie - all losses
ETSU played KY and Xavier - both losses
MT beat Vandy in Nashville, Ole Miss at home and lost to Auburn, Miami and USC with the latter two at neutral site.
Thats 2-8 combined with the 2 wins being against SEC bottom dwellers.

I'm not going to rehash the arguments but every analytic site out there talks about how unfair it is for the mid majors. Syracuse and Oklahoma being in is a joke.

(03-12-2018 10:27 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  If the NCAA had the slightest bit of foresight they'd turn the NIT into a national championship tourney of its own for all those NOT in the P5 plus 1 or 2 conferences. At least the mid-majors could stop whining then.

Yeah, I don't know of any non-power conference school that really wants to be in the NIT. If you are in a power conference and don't make the big dance then your season should be over. The NCAA will eventually not even entertain the idea of a mid major getting an at large.

Will the big boys finally break off from the rest since it’s getting to cumbersome to keep expanding the field in order to bring more of them in? The only thing holding Division I under one tent is the basketball tournament. Football pretends to be Division I but continues to sub-divide. All outside the Power Five conferences are essentially playing the “fake it till you make it” game. Try explaining NCAA Division I football with one group in a somewhat legit playoff system, another group in a convoluted, computer rigged playoff system, and another group in some sort of a “we’re going to a bowl” system—even with a losing record.

At the present trajectory — the Power Five (+ a few basketball schools) will go their own way. Until then, let’s keep riding that pretentious train.

As a historical note..........remember that the NCAA only recently bought out the NIT, in order to keep from (probably) losing an anti-trust lawsuit (ongoing at the time) which would have really upset their apple cart.

This supposedly helps the mid-majors, but apparently MTSU wasn't helped enough, even with their 12 road wins:

the new "four-quadrant" system

(03-12-2018 08:21 AM)Bucster Wrote:  Things seem to be getting harder and harder to for mid-majors to get an at-large. Not sure if anyone here remembers but MTSU got an at-large in 2013 as a Sun Belt member. Looking at their resume that season it wasn't much better than this year other than going 19-1 in their conference.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch...edule.html

It depends on the bubble in a given year. MTSU got in on a rather weak bubble; this year the bubble was a lot stronger, with teams that got a lot of notable wins early in the season plus two very strong true mid-majors losing in their conference tournaments to teams that were not getting in otherwise. In a year with a much weaker bubble, MTSU might have still gotten in, but bid thieves hurt teams like MTSU the most.

(03-12-2018 10:27 AM)PreacherPurl Wrote:  If the NCAA had the slightest bit of foresight they'd turn the NIT into a national championship tourney of its own for all those NOT in the P5 plus 1 or 2 conferences. At least the mid-majors could stop whining then.

How smart is that, though? I think it just exacerbates the disparity between the low- and mid-majors and the power schools. Nobody is getting money from going to the NIT, but you at least get a fat check for showing up to the big dance. If you win a game or two like Florida Gulf Coast, all the better, but if you put them in their own tournament, they're out of sight, out of mind. There would be no TV audience for a Loyola vs. Rhode Island "national championship," but there will be millions watching Loyola play Miami and Rhodey play Oklahoma this week.

I guess it depends on your perspective - is it better to have a hard barrier where you never catch up to the elites but can win titles in front of nobody or a soft barrier where you're still not going to catch up but can have your moment in the sun?