(03-09-2018 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 05:35 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 10:35 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 06:06 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  The other part of those two schools wanting to leave. Tech and State had a chance to leave the last time but chose to stay put. Maybe the ties there are too closely woven to unravel at this point. It'd be like pulling teeth and now with the Grant of Rights even more so.

NC State didn't really get a choice last time. They are controlled by the UNC system as is every other university in the state.

There was no way the UNC power players were going to allow State to get a leg up on them by moving to the SEC.

Virginia Tech's situation is a little more complicated, but they didn't have a great incentive to leave as many of their conference mates were close by. If the SEC or B1G was offering a group of schools from those states then I don't think VT would have had a problem with leaving.

Wake County (where Raleigh is located) now has a population of over one million. And it's the only county in North Carolina where Catholics are in the majority. So a move to the B1G by State wouldn't be looked on by the people or the politicians in the same way a move to the SEC would. There are so many transplants (mostly from the "nawth") that it is hard to find a native and you are just as likely to find someone sporting an Ohio State T-shirt as one with a NC State logo.
I can't speak for Va. Tech's situation, but State (if they wanted to join the B1G) could gain a lot of local support and skirt the negative politics (and the folks in Chapel Hill wouldn't care if State joined the B1G either, matter of fact they may be down right supportive).

But they apparently cared whether or not NC State joined the SEC?


Interesting.

Plenty of Catholics in Louisiana by the way. There are numerous influential Catholics in various roles around SEC country...they just don't make up the majority. There's nothing mutually exclusive about Southern culture and Catholic religion.

But that really wouldn't matter one way or the other. NC State is a major state institution so I'm sure their students and alumni come from all over the state and not just Wake Co.

The point was that there is a very large contingent of B1G alumni in and around Raleigh, therefore the "locals" would be much more amenable to the Big 10 than if NC State were located in another part of the State, because they (B1G people) have already influenced the local culture to a large degree.

(03-09-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 05:35 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 10:35 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 06:06 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  The other part of those two schools wanting to leave. Tech and State had a chance to leave the last time but chose to stay put. Maybe the ties there are too closely woven to unravel at this point. It'd be like pulling teeth and now with the Grant of Rights even more so.

NC State didn't really get a choice last time. They are controlled by the UNC system as is every other university in the state.

There was no way the UNC power players were going to allow State to get a leg up on them by moving to the SEC.

Virginia Tech's situation is a little more complicated, but they didn't have a great incentive to leave as many of their conference mates were close by. If the SEC or B1G was offering a group of schools from those states then I don't think VT would have had a problem with leaving.

Wake County (where Raleigh is located) now has a population of over one million. And it's the only county in North Carolina where Catholics are in the majority. So a move to the B1G by State wouldn't be looked on by the people or the politicians in the same way a move to the SEC would. There are so many transplants (mostly from the "nawth") that it is hard to find a native and you are just as likely to find someone sporting an Ohio State T-shirt as one with a NC State logo.
I can't speak for Va. Tech's situation, but State (if they wanted to join the B1G) could gain a lot of local support and skirt the negative politics (and the folks in Chapel Hill wouldn't care if State joined the B1G either, matter of fact they may be down right supportive).

But they apparently cared whether or not NC State joined the SEC?


Interesting.

Plenty of Catholics in Louisiana by the way. There are numerous influential Catholics in various roles around SEC country...they just don't make up the majority. There's nothing mutually exclusive about Southern culture and Catholic religion.

But that really wouldn't matter one way or the other. NC State is a major state institution so I'm sure their students and alumni come from all over the state and not just Wake Co.

The point was that there is a very large contingent of B1G alumni in and around Raleigh, therefore the "locals" would be much more amenable to the Big 10 than if NC State were located in another part of the State, because they (B1G people) have already influenced the local culture to a large degree.

I'm sure the B1G alumni would love to attend a game every now and then when their favorite team made the trip down. I highly doubt, however, that this segment of the population is NC State's base.

Am I really to believe though that the majority of the population of the state or NC State alumni would prefer the same thing just because there's a few extra Northerners down the street from their campus?

(03-09-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 05:35 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 10:35 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 06:06 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  The other part of those two schools wanting to leave. Tech and State had a chance to leave the last time but chose to stay put. Maybe the ties there are too closely woven to unravel at this point. It'd be like pulling teeth and now with the Grant of Rights even more so.

NC State didn't really get a choice last time. They are controlled by the UNC system as is every other university in the state.

There was no way the UNC power players were going to allow State to get a leg up on them by moving to the SEC.

Virginia Tech's situation is a little more complicated, but they didn't have a great incentive to leave as many of their conference mates were close by. If the SEC or B1G was offering a group of schools from those states then I don't think VT would have had a problem with leaving.

Wake County (where Raleigh is located) now has a population of over one million. And it's the only county in North Carolina where Catholics are in the majority. So a move to the B1G by State wouldn't be looked on by the people or the politicians in the same way a move to the SEC would. There are so many transplants (mostly from the "nawth") that it is hard to find a native and you are just as likely to find someone sporting an Ohio State T-shirt as one with a NC State logo.
I can't speak for Va. Tech's situation, but State (if they wanted to join the B1G) could gain a lot of local support and skirt the negative politics (and the folks in Chapel Hill wouldn't care if State joined the B1G either, matter of fact they may be down right supportive).

But they apparently cared whether or not NC State joined the SEC?


Interesting.

Plenty of Catholics in Louisiana by the way. There are numerous influential Catholics in various roles around SEC country...they just don't make up the majority. There's nothing mutually exclusive about Southern culture and Catholic religion.

But that really wouldn't matter one way or the other. NC State is a major state institution so I'm sure their students and alumni come from all over the state and not just Wake Co.

The point was that there is a very large contingent of B1G alumni in and around Raleigh, therefore the "locals" would be much more amenable to the Big 10 than if NC State were located in another part of the State, because they (B1G people) have already influenced the local culture to a large degree.

If they have that much influence then shame on the ACC. It simply means what we've already known, there isn't really an ACC culture. So, in the absence of one those with a strong culture will impose their own.

This is the very reason I have profound doubts about the profitability of the ACCN.

The SEC and Big 10 have very definable cultures.

(03-09-2018 04:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 05:35 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 10:35 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  NC State didn't really get a choice last time. They are controlled by the UNC system as is every other university in the state.

There was no way the UNC power players were going to allow State to get a leg up on them by moving to the SEC.

Virginia Tech's situation is a little more complicated, but they didn't have a great incentive to leave as many of their conference mates were close by. If the SEC or B1G was offering a group of schools from those states then I don't think VT would have had a problem with leaving.

Wake County (where Raleigh is located) now has a population of over one million. And it's the only county in North Carolina where Catholics are in the majority. So a move to the B1G by State wouldn't be looked on by the people or the politicians in the same way a move to the SEC would. There are so many transplants (mostly from the "nawth") that it is hard to find a native and you are just as likely to find someone sporting an Ohio State T-shirt as one with a NC State logo.
I can't speak for Va. Tech's situation, but State (if they wanted to join the B1G) could gain a lot of local support and skirt the negative politics (and the folks in Chapel Hill wouldn't care if State joined the B1G either, matter of fact they may be down right supportive).

But they apparently cared whether or not NC State joined the SEC?


Interesting.

Plenty of Catholics in Louisiana by the way. There are numerous influential Catholics in various roles around SEC country...they just don't make up the majority. There's nothing mutually exclusive about Southern culture and Catholic religion.

But that really wouldn't matter one way or the other. NC State is a major state institution so I'm sure their students and alumni come from all over the state and not just Wake Co.

The point was that there is a very large contingent of B1G alumni in and around Raleigh, therefore the "locals" would be much more amenable to the Big 10 than if NC State were located in another part of the State, because they (B1G people) have already influenced the local culture to a large degree.

If they have that much influence then shame on the ACC. It simply means what we've already known, there isn't really an ACC culture. So, in the absence of one those with a strong culture will impose their own.

This is the very reason I have profound doubts about the profitability of the ACCN.

The SEC and Big 10 have very definable cultures.

The ACCN will be very profitable, because ESPN wants it to be.

You may think your culture and that of the B1G are definable, but you may have a hard time recognizing it if you were in Columbia or New Brunswick.

(03-09-2018 04:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 04:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 05:35 AM)XLance Wrote:  Wake County (where Raleigh is located) now has a population of over one million. And it's the only county in North Carolina where Catholics are in the majority. So a move to the B1G by State wouldn't be looked on by the people or the politicians in the same way a move to the SEC would. There are so many transplants (mostly from the "nawth") that it is hard to find a native and you are just as likely to find someone sporting an Ohio State T-shirt as one with a NC State logo.
I can't speak for Va. Tech's situation, but State (if they wanted to join the B1G) could gain a lot of local support and skirt the negative politics (and the folks in Chapel Hill wouldn't care if State joined the B1G either, matter of fact they may be down right supportive).

But they apparently cared whether or not NC State joined the SEC?


Interesting.

Plenty of Catholics in Louisiana by the way. There are numerous influential Catholics in various roles around SEC country...they just don't make up the majority. There's nothing mutually exclusive about Southern culture and Catholic religion.

But that really wouldn't matter one way or the other. NC State is a major state institution so I'm sure their students and alumni come from all over the state and not just Wake Co.

The point was that there is a very large contingent of B1G alumni in and around Raleigh, therefore the "locals" would be much more amenable to the Big 10 than if NC State were located in another part of the State, because they (B1G people) have already influenced the local culture to a large degree.

If they have that much influence then shame on the ACC. It simply means what we've already known, there isn't really an ACC culture. So, in the absence of one those with a strong culture will impose their own.

This is the very reason I have profound doubts about the profitability of the ACCN.

The SEC and Big 10 have very definable cultures.

The ACCN will be very profitable, because ESPN wants it to be.

You may think your culture and that of the B1G are definable, but you may have a hard time recognizing it if you were in Columbia or New Brunswick.

ESPN can't guarantee profits to anyone, including themselves. That has to be the biggest load of hooey ever. The ACCN will share 50% of profits. 50% of weak is twice as weak as all of weak.

Let that sink in.

(03-09-2018 04:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 04:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 04:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  But they apparently cared whether or not NC State joined the SEC?


Interesting.

Plenty of Catholics in Louisiana by the way. There are numerous influential Catholics in various roles around SEC country...they just don't make up the majority. There's nothing mutually exclusive about Southern culture and Catholic religion.

But that really wouldn't matter one way or the other. NC State is a major state institution so I'm sure their students and alumni come from all over the state and not just Wake Co.

The point was that there is a very large contingent of B1G alumni in and around Raleigh, therefore the "locals" would be much more amenable to the Big 10 than if NC State were located in another part of the State, because they (B1G people) have already influenced the local culture to a large degree.

If they have that much influence then shame on the ACC. It simply means what we've already known, there isn't really an ACC culture. So, in the absence of one those with a strong culture will impose their own.

This is the very reason I have profound doubts about the profitability of the ACCN.

The SEC and Big 10 have very definable cultures.

The ACCN will be very profitable, because ESPN wants it to be.

You may think your culture and that of the B1G are definable, but you may have a hard time recognizing it if you were in Columbia or New Brunswick.

ESPN can't guarantee profits to anyone, including themselves. That has to be the biggest load of hooey ever. The ACCN will share 50% of profits. 50% of weak is twice as weak as all of weak.

Let that sink in.

Well we'll know before the ACCN launches. Because like the SECN, the ACCN is based on the market model and before one single game is broadcast the coverage contracts will be signed or not.
But based information of contract progress, we aren't going to have any problems......just let that sink in!

I've been having a new thought today. Perhaps the SEC should offer Kansas a bid along with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The rationale is that if Oklahoma came to the SEC Kansas would be fearful of being left behind and would take the offer in hand. Without Kansas or Oklahoma to travel with Texas is completely cut off from the Big 10. We hold the 4th slot for Texas. If they agree we are fine at 18. If they insist upon Tech we take West Virginia and call it a day.

Texas, Tech, and T.C.U. can head to the ACC with Kansas State or Baylor.

But I think they would accept. In the new SEC West they would have A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma State. They could play Texas Tech as an OOC game and have the schedule their fans would cherish.

But the key here is to take Kansas while they are without Oklahoma and unsure of Texas.

At 18 it will only be a matter of time before the B1G tries to expand to the East again.

If Texas has opted for the ACC with their in state entourage the Big 10 will fail at that attempt.

But if Texas comes to the SEC with the two Oklahomas and Kansas a raid by the B1G might be successful. If so then we are positioned to pick up 2 to 6 schools to the East and consolidate our leverage over the premier football, baseball, and basketball product.

(03-10-2018 11:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I've been having a new thought today. Perhaps the SEC should offer Kansas a bid along with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The rationale is that if Oklahoma came to the SEC Kansas would be fearful of being left behind and would take the offer in hand. Without Kansas or Oklahoma to travel with Texas is completely cut off from the Big 10. We hold the 4th slot for Texas. If they agree we are fine at 18. If they insist upon Tech we take West Virginia and call it a day.

Texas, Tech, and T.C.U. can head to the ACC with Kansas State or Baylor.

But I think they would accept. In the new SEC West they would have A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma State. They could play Texas Tech as an OOC game and have the schedule their fans would cherish.

But the key here is to take Kansas while they are without Oklahoma and unsure of Texas.

At 18 it will only be a matter of time before the B1G tries to expand to the East again.

If Texas has opted for the ACC with their in state entourage the Big 10 will fail at that attempt.

But if Texas comes to the SEC with the two Oklahomas and Kansas a raid by the B1G might be successful. If so then we are positioned to pick up 2 to 6 schools to the East and consolidate our leverage over the premier football, baseball, and basketball product.

I saw someone on the LT board propose OU be the first out the gate, if for no other reason than to get the B1G to make a pitch. I think the first mover has to be a conference. If a team thinks they are going to be able to play the SEC off of the B1G they will be in for a huge disappointment.

(03-11-2018 06:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 11:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I've been having a new thought today. Perhaps the SEC should offer Kansas a bid along with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The rationale is that if Oklahoma came to the SEC Kansas would be fearful of being left behind and would take the offer in hand. Without Kansas or Oklahoma to travel with Texas is completely cut off from the Big 10. We hold the 4th slot for Texas. If they agree we are fine at 18. If they insist upon Tech we take West Virginia and call it a day.

Texas, Tech, and T.C.U. can head to the ACC with Kansas State or Baylor.

But I think they would accept. In the new SEC West they would have A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma State. They could play Texas Tech as an OOC game and have the schedule their fans would cherish.

But the key here is to take Kansas while they are without Oklahoma and unsure of Texas.

At 18 it will only be a matter of time before the B1G tries to expand to the East again.

If Texas has opted for the ACC with their in state entourage the Big 10 will fail at that attempt.

But if Texas comes to the SEC with the two Oklahomas and Kansas a raid by the B1G might be successful. If so then we are positioned to pick up 2 to 6 schools to the East and consolidate our leverage over the premier football, baseball, and basketball product.

I saw someone on the LT board propose OU be the first out the gate, if for no other reason than to get the B1G to make a pitch. I think the first mover has to be a conference. If a team thinks they are going to be able to play the SEC off of the B1G they will be in for a huge disappointment.

Pretty much. I think our reply would probably be, "Well have at it Bubba!, but don't come back if it doesn't work out." Besides the B1G has shown zero interest in them an they are way below the Big 10 Mendoza line on academics but to hear them tell it they are next in the AAU. I could see the Big 10 taking them to get Texas. But I would imagine the Big 10 would rather take Kansas to get Texas. And I'm pretty sure our leadership knows that already. Oklahoma, cut off from its Texas recruiting ties (by going B1G with Kansas) and renewing with Nebraska, would just be another small state school at the very bottom of the B1G academic world, and set to wither on the vine the way Nebraska has.

The best hope out for Oklahoma is the SEC. I'm sure the PAC would take them but the travel would kill them. The ACC is a flyover move and that wouldn't be profitable either.

But everyone needs to pause and realize that if Texas and Oklahoma move it won't be just conferences bidding against each other to land them, but networks as well. I like ESPN's leverage with Texas. And now that they've bought out a part of FOX they have OU's T3 as well. We'll see.

(03-11-2018 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 11:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I've been having a new thought today. Perhaps the SEC should offer Kansas a bid along with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The rationale is that if Oklahoma came to the SEC Kansas would be fearful of being left behind and would take the offer in hand. Without Kansas or Oklahoma to travel with Texas is completely cut off from the Big 10. We hold the 4th slot for Texas. If they agree we are fine at 18. If they insist upon Tech we take West Virginia and call it a day.

Texas, Tech, and T.C.U. can head to the ACC with Kansas State or Baylor.

But I think they would accept. In the new SEC West they would have A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma State. They could play Texas Tech as an OOC game and have the schedule their fans would cherish.

But the key here is to take Kansas while they are without Oklahoma and unsure of Texas.

At 18 it will only be a matter of time before the B1G tries to expand to the East again.

If Texas has opted for the ACC with their in state entourage the Big 10 will fail at that attempt.

But if Texas comes to the SEC with the two Oklahomas and Kansas a raid by the B1G might be successful. If so then we are positioned to pick up 2 to 6 schools to the East and consolidate our leverage over the premier football, baseball, and basketball product.

I saw someone on the LT board propose OU be the first out the gate, if for no other reason than to get the B1G to make a pitch. I think the first mover has to be a conference. If a team thinks they are going to be able to play the SEC off of the B1G they will be in for a huge disappointment.

Pretty much. I think our reply would probably be, "Well have at it Bubba!, but don't come back if it doesn't work out." Besides the B1G has shown zero interest in them an they are way below the Big 10 Mendoza line on academics but to hear them tell it they are next in the AAU. I could see the Big 10 taking them to get Texas. But I would imagine the Big 10 would rather take Kansas to get Texas. And I'm pretty sure our leadership knows that already. Oklahoma, cut off from its Texas recruiting ties (by going B1G with Kansas) and renewing with Nebraska, would just be another small state school at the very bottom of the B1G academic world, and set to wither on the vine the way Nebraska has.

The best hope out for Oklahoma is the SEC. I'm sure the PAC would take them but the travel would kill them. The ACC is a flyover move and that wouldn't be profitable either.

But everyone needs to pause and realize that if Texas and Oklahoma move it won't be just conferences bidding against each other to land them, but networks as well. I like ESPN's leverage with Texas. And now that they've bought out a part of FOX they have OU's T3 as well. We'll see.

I can't see the B1G inviting Oklahoma, period.
The entire Big 12's best hope is to find "one" school that everybody could agree on and invite them to get to 11 and try to sign a TV deal with someone (anyone) even if it is only for the short term.
If that TV deal is with ESPN, a lot of possibilities could open up.

(03-11-2018 08:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 11:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I've been having a new thought today. Perhaps the SEC should offer Kansas a bid along with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The rationale is that if Oklahoma came to the SEC Kansas would be fearful of being left behind and would take the offer in hand. Without Kansas or Oklahoma to travel with Texas is completely cut off from the Big 10. We hold the 4th slot for Texas. If they agree we are fine at 18. If they insist upon Tech we take West Virginia and call it a day.

Texas, Tech, and T.C.U. can head to the ACC with Kansas State or Baylor.

But I think they would accept. In the new SEC West they would have A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma State. They could play Texas Tech as an OOC game and have the schedule their fans would cherish.

But the key here is to take Kansas while they are without Oklahoma and unsure of Texas.

At 18 it will only be a matter of time before the B1G tries to expand to the East again.

If Texas has opted for the ACC with their in state entourage the Big 10 will fail at that attempt.

But if Texas comes to the SEC with the two Oklahomas and Kansas a raid by the B1G might be successful. If so then we are positioned to pick up 2 to 6 schools to the East and consolidate our leverage over the premier football, baseball, and basketball product.

I saw someone on the LT board propose OU be the first out the gate, if for no other reason than to get the B1G to make a pitch. I think the first mover has to be a conference. If a team thinks they are going to be able to play the SEC off of the B1G they will be in for a huge disappointment.

Pretty much. I think our reply would probably be, "Well have at it Bubba!, but don't come back if it doesn't work out." Besides the B1G has shown zero interest in them an they are way below the Big 10 Mendoza line on academics but to hear them tell it they are next in the AAU. I could see the Big 10 taking them to get Texas. But I would imagine the Big 10 would rather take Kansas to get Texas. And I'm pretty sure our leadership knows that already. Oklahoma, cut off from its Texas recruiting ties (by going B1G with Kansas) and renewing with Nebraska, would just be another small state school at the very bottom of the B1G academic world, and set to wither on the vine the way Nebraska has.

The best hope out for Oklahoma is the SEC. I'm sure the PAC would take them but the travel would kill them. The ACC is a flyover move and that wouldn't be profitable either.

But everyone needs to pause and realize that if Texas and Oklahoma move it won't be just conferences bidding against each other to land them, but networks as well. I like ESPN's leverage with Texas. And now that they've bought out a part of FOX they have OU's T3 as well. We'll see.

I can't see the B1G inviting Oklahoma, period.
The entire Big 12's best hope is to find "one" school that everybody could agree on and invite them to get to 11 and try to sign a TV deal with someone (anyone) even if it is only for the short term.
If that TV deal is with ESPN, a lot of possibilities could open up.

Well, if B.Y.U. and Gonzaga go to the WAC, I don't think there will be anyone they all can agree upon.

I think the Big 10 would go the Kansas / Texas route in trying to grow to 16. Whether they would take Kansas with Iowa State should Texas refuse is another matter. I think not. So the SEC could make the play for Texas and Oklahoma with Oklahoma and Kansas as a fall back.

If Texas did the unthinkable and went with Kansas to the Big 10 then the SEC has the option of Oklahoma / Oklahoma State or Texas Tech, or T.C.U..

If Texas wants independence then they can park their backside in the ACC, but that's really way to far for their minor sports so I doubt it.

X, if 16 is the limit then we might well be looking at an extremely interesting distribution. Personally I think 18 is quite doable given the restrictions in the PAC (distance, money, etc.).

If the ACC is to land Texas and the limit is 16 you'll be giving up a couple of existing schools. Whether that is by expulsion, or a voluntary drop out, or a couple released to go elsewhere, the ACC will get to 16 with West Virginia and Notre Dame if you wish to remain intact. To land Texas you'll need to take at least 2 more and I'm thinking Baylor and T.C.U..

Otherwise it will be West Virginia to the ACC with Notre Dame all in, Oklahoma to the SEC with one of the aforementioned as #2, Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10, and Texas, with T.C.U., Kansas State/Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech to the PAC.

But then that's the scenario that nobody really wants.

Now if the Big 10 could land Virginia Tech to go with Kansas they might be happy.

If the SEC could land one of Florida State / Miami to go with Oklahoma we might be happy.

And if the ACC could land Texas, and two of Baylor, T.C.U. and Texas Tech to go with Notre Dame that might well work for you. If the Irish still insist on being a partial then WVU gets you to a full 16.

That would leave Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech for the PAC if they wanted them or for the AAC if they didn't.

But then that's why I think 18 is so very possible. It solves some logistical issues.

(03-12-2018 12:13 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 08:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 11:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I've been having a new thought today. Perhaps the SEC should offer Kansas a bid along with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The rationale is that if Oklahoma came to the SEC Kansas would be fearful of being left behind and would take the offer in hand. Without Kansas or Oklahoma to travel with Texas is completely cut off from the Big 10. We hold the 4th slot for Texas. If they agree we are fine at 18. If they insist upon Tech we take West Virginia and call it a day.

Texas, Tech, and T.C.U. can head to the ACC with Kansas State or Baylor.

But I think they would accept. In the new SEC West they would have A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma State. They could play Texas Tech as an OOC game and have the schedule their fans would cherish.

But the key here is to take Kansas while they are without Oklahoma and unsure of Texas.

At 18 it will only be a matter of time before the B1G tries to expand to the East again.

If Texas has opted for the ACC with their in state entourage the Big 10 will fail at that attempt.

But if Texas comes to the SEC with the two Oklahomas and Kansas a raid by the B1G might be successful. If so then we are positioned to pick up 2 to 6 schools to the East and consolidate our leverage over the premier football, baseball, and basketball product.

I saw someone on the LT board propose OU be the first out the gate, if for no other reason than to get the B1G to make a pitch. I think the first mover has to be a conference. If a team thinks they are going to be able to play the SEC off of the B1G they will be in for a huge disappointment.

Pretty much. I think our reply would probably be, "Well have at it Bubba!, but don't come back if it doesn't work out." Besides the B1G has shown zero interest in them an they are way below the Big 10 Mendoza line on academics but to hear them tell it they are next in the AAU. I could see the Big 10 taking them to get Texas. But I would imagine the Big 10 would rather take Kansas to get Texas. And I'm pretty sure our leadership knows that already. Oklahoma, cut off from its Texas recruiting ties (by going B1G with Kansas) and renewing with Nebraska, would just be another small state school at the very bottom of the B1G academic world, and set to wither on the vine the way Nebraska has.

The best hope out for Oklahoma is the SEC. I'm sure the PAC would take them but the travel would kill them. The ACC is a flyover move and that wouldn't be profitable either.

But everyone needs to pause and realize that if Texas and Oklahoma move it won't be just conferences bidding against each other to land them, but networks as well. I like ESPN's leverage with Texas. And now that they've bought out a part of FOX they have OU's T3 as well. We'll see.

I can't see the B1G inviting Oklahoma, period.
The entire Big 12's best hope is to find "one" school that everybody could agree on and invite them to get to 11 and try to sign a TV deal with someone (anyone) even if it is only for the short term.
If that TV deal is with ESPN, a lot of possibilities could open up.

Well, if B.Y.U. and Gonzaga go to the WAC, I don't think there will be anyone they all can agree upon.

I think the Big 10 would go the Kansas / Texas route in trying to grow to 16. Whether they would take Kansas with Iowa State should Texas refuse is another matter. I think not. So the SEC could make the play for Texas and Oklahoma with Oklahoma and Kansas as a fall back.

If Texas did the unthinkable and went with Kansas to the Big 10 then the SEC has the option of Oklahoma / Oklahoma State or Texas Tech, or T.C.U..

If Texas wants independence then they can park their backside in the ACC, but that's really way to far for their minor sports so I doubt it.

X, if 16 is the limit then we might well be looking at an extremely interesting distribution. Personally I think 18 is quite doable given the restrictions in the PAC (distance, money, etc.).

If the ACC is to land Texas and the limit is 16 you'll be giving up a couple of existing schools. Whether that is by expulsion, or a voluntary drop out, or a couple released to go elsewhere, the ACC will get to 16 with West Virginia and Notre Dame if you wish to remain intact. To land Texas you'll need to take at least 2 more and I'm thinking Baylor and T.C.U..

Otherwise it will be West Virginia to the ACC with Notre Dame all in, Oklahoma to the SEC with one of the aforementioned as #2, Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10, and Texas, with T.C.U., Kansas State/Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech to the PAC.

But then that's the scenario that nobody really wants.

Now if the Big 10 could land Virginia Tech to go with Kansas they might be happy.

If the SEC could land one of Florida State / Miami to go with Oklahoma we might be happy.

And if the ACC could land Texas, and two of Baylor, T.C.U. and Texas Tech to go with Notre Dame that might well work for you. If the Irish still insist on being a partial then WVU gets you to a full 16.

That would leave Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech for the PAC if they wanted them or for the AAC if they didn't.

But then that's why I think 18 is so very possible. It solves some logistical issues.

JR, I used to think that realignment was waiting on Texas to either choose a direction or be forced into making a decision, I'm now beginning to think it's in the hands of the FBI.

(03-12-2018 08:37 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 12:13 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 08:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:24 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I saw someone on the LT board propose OU be the first out the gate, if for no other reason than to get the B1G to make a pitch. I think the first mover has to be a conference. If a team thinks they are going to be able to play the SEC off of the B1G they will be in for a huge disappointment.

Pretty much. I think our reply would probably be, "Well have at it Bubba!, but don't come back if it doesn't work out." Besides the B1G has shown zero interest in them an they are way below the Big 10 Mendoza line on academics but to hear them tell it they are next in the AAU. I could see the Big 10 taking them to get Texas. But I would imagine the Big 10 would rather take Kansas to get Texas. And I'm pretty sure our leadership knows that already. Oklahoma, cut off from its Texas recruiting ties (by going B1G with Kansas) and renewing with Nebraska, would just be another small state school at the very bottom of the B1G academic world, and set to wither on the vine the way Nebraska has.

The best hope out for Oklahoma is the SEC. I'm sure the PAC would take them but the travel would kill them. The ACC is a flyover move and that wouldn't be profitable either.

But everyone needs to pause and realize that if Texas and Oklahoma move it won't be just conferences bidding against each other to land them, but networks as well. I like ESPN's leverage with Texas. And now that they've bought out a part of FOX they have OU's T3 as well. We'll see.

I can't see the B1G inviting Oklahoma, period.
The entire Big 12's best hope is to find "one" school that everybody could agree on and invite them to get to 11 and try to sign a TV deal with someone (anyone) even if it is only for the short term.
If that TV deal is with ESPN, a lot of possibilities could open up.

Well, if B.Y.U. and Gonzaga go to the WAC, I don't think there will be anyone they all can agree upon.

I think the Big 10 would go the Kansas / Texas route in trying to grow to 16. Whether they would take Kansas with Iowa State should Texas refuse is another matter. I think not. So the SEC could make the play for Texas and Oklahoma with Oklahoma and Kansas as a fall back.

If Texas did the unthinkable and went with Kansas to the Big 10 then the SEC has the option of Oklahoma / Oklahoma State or Texas Tech, or T.C.U..

If Texas wants independence then they can park their backside in the ACC, but that's really way to far for their minor sports so I doubt it.

X, if 16 is the limit then we might well be looking at an extremely interesting distribution. Personally I think 18 is quite doable given the restrictions in the PAC (distance, money, etc.).

If the ACC is to land Texas and the limit is 16 you'll be giving up a couple of existing schools. Whether that is by expulsion, or a voluntary drop out, or a couple released to go elsewhere, the ACC will get to 16 with West Virginia and Notre Dame if you wish to remain intact. To land Texas you'll need to take at least 2 more and I'm thinking Baylor and T.C.U..

Otherwise it will be West Virginia to the ACC with Notre Dame all in, Oklahoma to the SEC with one of the aforementioned as #2, Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10, and Texas, with T.C.U., Kansas State/Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech to the PAC.

But then that's the scenario that nobody really wants.

Now if the Big 10 could land Virginia Tech to go with Kansas they might be happy.

If the SEC could land one of Florida State / Miami to go with Oklahoma we might be happy.

And if the ACC could land Texas, and two of Baylor, T.C.U. and Texas Tech to go with Notre Dame that might well work for you. If the Irish still insist on being a partial then WVU gets you to a full 16.

That would leave Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech for the PAC if they wanted them or for the AAC if they didn't.

But then that's why I think 18 is so very possible. It solves some logistical issues.

JR, I used to think that realignment was waiting on Texas to either choose a direction or be forced into making a decision, I'm now beginning to think it's in the hands of the FBI.

X the FBI is going after people, and not schools. There will be coaches fired and possibly prosecuted. There will be players that might be force to file and pay back taxes and lose their eligibility, and there will be fines and charges against some of the corporate sponsors. What we won't have is the shuttering of sports programs at the individual schools. The FBI actually made statements to this effect with the release of the first information which included Person at Auburn. Their focus is the laundering of money which evades taxation.

So the burden on the NCAA is to find a way that pays Uncle Sam the taxes due, and makes recruiting more above board for everyone. Stipends and Endorsement money will probably be the solution. We'll see. But I doubt seriously that anything much changes except the NCAA rules.

In the end I doubt that we see oodles of court action against the coaches already charged or under investigation. The goal of the FBI here is more likely to change the nature of amateurism which like prohibition has allowed the crooks to flourish at the expense of the government and their enforcement resources.

I'm still liking 15.

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Florida State
UCF, Miami, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest

Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, USF
Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Alabama, Mississippi State
Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Ole Miss, LSU, A&M

Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri
Northwestern, Illinois, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Big 12 replaces West Virginia with Houston

PAC remains the same

or
Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, UCF
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Pitt, Virginia Tech

SEC stays the same

Big 12 adds:
Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and Houston to get to 14. The question would be would the presence of another P5 school added to the Big 12 be enough to overcome the stigma of adding 3 G5 schools. It does get the ACC away from the mid-west mentality of Louisville.

(03-12-2018 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  I'm still liking 15.

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Florida State
UCF, Miami, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest

Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, USF
Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Alabama, Mississippi State
Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Ole Miss, LSU, A&M

Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri
Northwestern, Illinois, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Big 12 replaces West Virginia with Houston

PAC remains the same

or
Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, UCF
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Pitt, Virginia Tech

SEC stays the same

Big 12 adds:
Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and Houston to get to 14. The question would be would the presence of another P5 school added to the Big 12 be enough to overcome the stigma of adding 3 G5 schools. It does get the ACC away from the mid-west mentality of Louisville.

You can drop the troll. The SEC isn't giving up anyone, unless they just want to leave, and USF is about 15 years away for somebody. Ditto for UCF.

If we were looking at a legitimate 15 it would be more like this:

Big 10 plus Kansas.
SEC plus Oklahoma.
ACC plus West Virginia
PAC plus Texas, Texas Tech, and T.C.U.

(03-12-2018 03:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  I'm still liking 15.

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Florida State
UCF, Miami, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest

Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, USF
Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Alabama, Mississippi State
Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Ole Miss, LSU, A&M

Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri
Northwestern, Illinois, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Big 12 replaces West Virginia with Houston

PAC remains the same

or
Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, UCF
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Pitt, Virginia Tech

SEC stays the same

Big 12 adds:
Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and Houston to get to 14. The question would be would the presence of another P5 school added to the Big 12 be enough to overcome the stigma of adding 3 G5 schools. It does get the ACC away from the mid-west mentality of Louisville.

You can drop the troll. The SEC isn't giving up anyone, unless they just want to leave, and USF is about 15 years away for somebody. Ditto for UCF.

If we were looking at a legitimate 15 it would be more like this:

Big 10 plus Kansas.
SEC plus Oklahoma.
ACC plus West Virginia
PAC plus Texas, Texas Tech, and T.C.U.

That's why I like 15, you don't have to shoehorn anyone into any conference.

BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

Not a bad set up for us.

(03-12-2018 04:16 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 03:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  I'm still liking 15.

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Florida State
UCF, Miami, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest

Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, USF
Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Alabama, Mississippi State
Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Ole Miss, LSU, A&M

Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri
Northwestern, Illinois, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Big 12 replaces West Virginia with Houston

PAC remains the same

or
Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, UCF
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Pitt, Virginia Tech

SEC stays the same

Big 12 adds:
Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and Houston to get to 14. The question would be would the presence of another P5 school added to the Big 12 be enough to overcome the stigma of adding 3 G5 schools. It does get the ACC away from the mid-west mentality of Louisville.

You can drop the troll. The SEC isn't giving up anyone, unless they just want to leave, and USF is about 15 years away for somebody. Ditto for UCF.

If we were looking at a legitimate 15 it would be more like this:

Big 10 plus Kansas.
SEC plus Oklahoma.
ACC plus West Virginia
PAC plus Texas, Texas Tech, and T.C.U.

That's why I like 15, you don't have to shoehorn anyone into any conference.

BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

Not a bad set up for us.

Let's be frank here. You've already have #16 with one foot in and one foot out. So 15 is as deep as you want to go right now.

For the Big 10 and SEC we are much more likely to want to keep symmetry so a pair for each of us makes more sense.

The PAC is a whole different issue.

(03-12-2018 03:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 02:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  I'm still liking 15.

Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Florida State
UCF, Miami, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest

Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, USF
Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Alabama, Mississippi State
Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Ole Miss, LSU, A&M

Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri
Northwestern, Illinois, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

Big 12 replaces West Virginia with Houston

PAC remains the same

or
Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, UCF
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Pitt, Virginia Tech

SEC stays the same

Big 12 adds:
Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and Houston to get to 14. The question would be would the presence of another P5 school added to the Big 12 be enough to overcome the stigma of adding 3 G5 schools. It does get the ACC away from the mid-west mentality of Louisville.

You can drop the troll. The SEC isn't giving up anyone, unless they just want to leave, and USF is about 15 years away for somebody. Ditto for UCF.

If we were looking at a legitimate 15 it would be more like this:

Big 10 plus Kansas.
SEC plus Oklahoma.
ACC plus West Virginia
PAC plus Texas, Texas Tech, and T.C.U.

I kinda like that:

B1G adds Kansas
SEC adds Oklahoma
ACC adds West Virginia
Texas/Big 12 adds Houston, BYU, Boise State
PAC stays the same.

Natural additions for Big Ten, Sec and ACC while PAC remains the same.
Big 12 retools with two western brands in football and tries to dilute A&M and SEC penetration in Houston/Texas recruiting market