(01-11-2018 09:24 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  yes, we were openly sure we were going to win and with good reason. We hadn't lost in 26 games. and frankly, most of us feel we SHOULD have won that game last weekend as well. We made some very, very uncharacteristic unforced mistakes.

heck, I even saw a fair number of NDSU fans saying the same thing. That you guys were very fortunate to win.

I think the amount of JMU fans paying compliments towards NDSU FAR outweighs the reverse though.

Let's not forget, before your run, we DID win a title (2004) and arguably should have played for another (2008 - ranked #1 all year, lost in the semis). It isn't like we just came to the party here. and that was back when there were a lot more "JMU/NDSU/Montana" supported level programs.....UMass, Ga Southern, App St, Texas St, etc

The unforced mistakes thing I beg to differ with...to a point. It isn't like your qb had all day to throw without pressure. All those passes were not in perfect spots...a little behind at times. Then when a receiver does make a good catch, a fumble happens (I know, I know...questionable call). But you guys had great field position all game (partly due to great special teams play...not uncharacteristic of you)...and you still only got 13 points. Our defense played their game. Your offense just wasn't what it was a year ago. I would think you guys would agree on that.

I hear what you are saying about not coming out of nowhere. SHSU was up there in 2011 & 2012...but they have trailed off...still a good team, but not a challenger for a NC anymore. Time will tell if you guys continue to reload or if you slip back a bit. We are loaded for another run in 2018...but after that there will be a lot of question marks...see if we can continue to reload.

There were 2 forced turnovers, one of which was debatable.

The DT INT was a likely TD....Stapleton was wide open on the slant at the goal line. Jackson (RT) completely whiffed on his pass block (DE made an inside move and Jackson was off balance looking for an outside speed rush). DE hits Schor and alters the pass, which is intercepted by the slimmest of margins(not sure why that wasn't reviewed, btw. It was very close). That takes at least 3 off the board, likely took 7 off. Jackson then proceeds to get a PF and shorten the field for a big NDSU TD. Biggest play of the game imo. It was set up by the speed of NDSU's DE that forced Jackson to cheat in his pass drop....

The Stapleton fumble should never have been called a fumble on the field, but I understand why it stood on replay. The call on the field stands unless indisputable video evidence exists. The replays probably only made it "very likely" that it wasn't a fumble. On a play that close, a ref should rule the player down and let replay show CLEAR evidence of a fumble. You can not make the argument that the ref clearly saw a fumble on the field...no way, no how. It was too quick of a sequence. That "fumble" killed a drive and led to 3 points for NDSU.

Minimum 6 point swing on those 2 plays. You could argue 10-14 pt swing as well. In a game with razor thin margins, either one of those 2 plays is the difference.

The other INT was a poorly thrown ball behind the receiver. Schor missed 2 TD throws in the redzone with just poor passes....the Kloo overthrow in Q1 and that int. There is no doubt that the NDSU rush played a part in the bad throws. The drops, on the other hand, were just inexcusable.

We really got everyone's best shot this past year. We would see our CAA opponents have their best game of the season against us and it wasn't because we sucked, it's because they really did kick it up a gear and leave nothing on the table against us.
We'd see teams put up a great defensive performance against us but then stink in many of their other games. It was a little annoying really.

(01-11-2018 10:04 AM)TransAmBison Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 09:24 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  yes, we were openly sure we were going to win and with good reason. We hadn't lost in 26 games. and frankly, most of us feel we SHOULD have won that game last weekend as well. We made some very, very uncharacteristic unforced mistakes.

heck, I even saw a fair number of NDSU fans saying the same thing. That you guys were very fortunate to win.

I think the amount of JMU fans paying compliments towards NDSU FAR outweighs the reverse though.

Let's not forget, before your run, we DID win a title (2004) and arguably should have played for another (2008 - ranked #1 all year, lost in the semis). It isn't like we just came to the party here. and that was back when there were a lot more "JMU/NDSU/Montana" supported level programs.....UMass, Ga Southern, App St, Texas St, etc

The unforced mistakes thing I beg to differ with...to a point. It isn't like your qb had all day to throw without pressure. All those passes were not in perfect spots...a little behind at times. Then when a receiver does make a good catch, a fumble happens (I know, I know...questionable call). But you guys had great field position all game (partly due to great special teams play...not uncharacteristic of you)...and you still only got 13 points. Our defense played their game. Your offense just wasn't what it was a year ago. I would think you guys would agree on that.

I hear what you are saying about not coming out of nowhere. SHSU was up there in 2011 & 2012...but they have trailed off...still a good team, but not a challenger for a NC anymore. Time will tell if you guys continue to reload or if you slip back a bit. We are loaded for another run in 2018...but after that there will be a lot of question marks...see if we can continue to reload.

yes, you guys made plays on defense. that was to be expected. and no, our offense wasn't lights out like last year, mostly because we had a patchwork OL all year.
but we only needed 5 more points to win the game because our defense played as well, and arguably, better than yours.

don't forget:

we missed a makeable FG by inches. that would have left only a FG to win in the end.

the Alls drop in the fourth was a straight drop. Well thrown ball, no pressure, senior WR who doesn't drop balls. He ****** it up. And it was costly. End of story.

the first INT. let's be real. That was a fluke. Great pressure to get to Schor, no doubt. But how many times is a ball going to hit a big fat guy in the stomach, hang there for a second, and then he'll catch it inches from the ground? 1 in a 1,000 INT there. Otherwise, it's still our ball in FG range. Again, those 3 points could have been the difference in the game.

the Stapleton fumble was a 50/50 ref call at best. arguably, it could have been overturned. if that is called our way, we have the ball, and tons of momentum with a chance at, again, another FG. In a tight game, those 3 points here and there make a HUGE difference.

when did NDSU move the ball into our red zone and then just have so many unusual things happen against them? they didn't. our D didn't let you get down there. And when you did, we blocked the FG.

On the point of the FCS not having many premiere teams, that's really the problem. I actually thought about that all this year.
Of the opponents NDSU has faced in Frisco (so a national runner up), it went as follows:
2011 - Sam Houston State. 2012 season followed up by getting back to Frisco and a second straight runner up.
2012 - Sam Houston State. 2013 - 2nd Rd loss to SELA. 2014 - SF loss to NDSU. 2015 - SF loss to JSU. 2016 - QF loss to JMU. 2017 - SF loss to NDSU.
2013 - Towson. Has not been in the playoffs since.
2014 - Illinois State. 2015 - QF loss to UR. 2016 - 1st Rd loss to UCA. 2017 - No playoffs.
2015 - Jacksonville State. 2016 - 2nd Rd loss to YSU. 2017 - 2nd Rd loss to KSU.
2016 - Losses to JMU in SF.
2017 - Beats JMU in Championship game.

SHSU - Two straight years in Frisco, followed up by a combination of 3 Semi, 1 Quarter and 1 2nd round appearance.
Towson - Non-existent.
Illinois State - Two playoffs in 3 years but no better than a QF appearance. They're actually regressing with each passing year.
Jacksonville State - Continues to be a force in the OVC. Continues to be one and done once they play playoff caliber opponents. No better than 2nd round appearances.
JMU - First team to finally beat them in the playoffs since 2010 and then followed up with a national runner up year.

Hell, as much crap as we give SHSU, they've been the most consistent since playing NDSU in Frisco in 2011 and 2012, even if they haven't been able to get back to the championship. SHSU and JMU have been the only teams nationwide who've gotten to Frisco and then immediately followed up with a good run in the season or seasons following. All other opponents have faded away, even if they're making the playoffs.

(01-11-2018 11:02 AM)Potomac Wrote:  On the point of the FCS not having many premiere teams, that's really the problem. I actually thought about that all this year.
Of the opponents NDSU has faced in Frisco (so a national runner up), it went as follows:
2011 - Sam Houston State. 2012 season followed up by getting back to Frisco and a second straight runner up.
2012 - Sam Houston State. 2013 - 2nd Rd loss to SELA. 2014 - SF loss to NDSU. 2015 - SF loss to JSU. 2016 - QF loss to JMU. 2017 - SF loss to NDSU.
2013 - Towson. Has not been in the playoffs since.
2014 - Illinois State. 2015 - QF loss to UR. 2016 - 1st Rd loss to UCA. 2017 - No playoffs.
2015 - Jacksonville State. 2016 - 2nd Rd loss to YSU. 2017 - 2nd Rd loss to KSU.
2016 - Losses to JMU in SF.
2017 - Beats JMU in Championship game.

SHSU - Two straight years in Frisco, followed up by a combination of 3 Semi, 1 Quarter and 1 2nd round appearance.
Towson - Non-existent.
Illinois State - Two playoffs in 3 years but no better than a QF appearance. They're actually regressing with each passing year.
Jacksonville State - Continues to be a force in the OVC. Continues to be one and done once they play playoff caliber opponents. No better than 2nd round appearances.
JMU - First team to finally beat them in the playoffs since 2010 and then followed up with a national runner up year.

Hell, as much crap as we give SHSU, they've been the most consistent since playing NDSU in Frisco in 2011 and 2012, even if they haven't been able to get back to the championship. SHSU and JMU have been the only teams nationwide who've gotten to Frisco and then immediately followed up with a good run in the season or seasons following. All other opponents have faded away, even if they're making the playoffs.

Yep...that's exactly what I've seen...and that is more the norm...a team puts it together for one good run...not many can reload and keep going. I do agree with other JMU posters that have said in previous years you had the talent, but not the coaching. With Houston, I'm thinking you guys will continue to reload...as long as your next qb is up to the task. I would guess Houston will have that covered. He is a winner.

We have 3 QB options currently and I have no doubt Houston will put the best QB out on the field, regardless of seniority.

If SDSU really wants to become a real NC contender, they have to improve their defense to compliment the high powered offense. Their defensive stats this year were nothing to write home about.

(01-11-2018 11:21 AM)TransAmBison Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 11:02 AM)Potomac Wrote:  On the point of the FCS not having many premiere teams, that's really the problem. I actually thought about that all this year.
Of the opponents NDSU has faced in Frisco (so a national runner up), it went as follows:
2011 - Sam Houston State. 2012 season followed up by getting back to Frisco and a second straight runner up.
2012 - Sam Houston State. 2013 - 2nd Rd loss to SELA. 2014 - SF loss to NDSU. 2015 - SF loss to JSU. 2016 - QF loss to JMU. 2017 - SF loss to NDSU.
2013 - Towson. Has not been in the playoffs since.
2014 - Illinois State. 2015 - QF loss to UR. 2016 - 1st Rd loss to UCA. 2017 - No playoffs.
2015 - Jacksonville State. 2016 - 2nd Rd loss to YSU. 2017 - 2nd Rd loss to KSU.
2016 - Losses to JMU in SF.
2017 - Beats JMU in Championship game.

SHSU - Two straight years in Frisco, followed up by a combination of 3 Semi, 1 Quarter and 1 2nd round appearance.
Towson - Non-existent.
Illinois State - Two playoffs in 3 years but no better than a QF appearance. They're actually regressing with each passing year.
Jacksonville State - Continues to be a force in the OVC. Continues to be one and done once they play playoff caliber opponents. No better than 2nd round appearances.
JMU - First team to finally beat them in the playoffs since 2010 and then followed up with a national runner up year.

Hell, as much crap as we give SHSU, they've been the most consistent since playing NDSU in Frisco in 2011 and 2012, even if they haven't been able to get back to the championship. SHSU and JMU have been the only teams nationwide who've gotten to Frisco and then immediately followed up with a good run in the season or seasons following. All other opponents have faded away, even if they're making the playoffs.

Yep...that's exactly what I've seen...and that is more the norm...a team puts it together for one good run...not many can reload and keep going. I do agree with other JMU posters that have said in previous years you had the talent, but not the coaching. With Houston, I'm thinking you guys will continue to reload...as long as your next qb is up to the task. I would guess Houston will have that covered. He is a winner.

QB is actually one of my smallest worries. I've felt all along like Cole Johnson is going to be really good and either we'll have him or someone who beat him for the job, so regardless I feel pretty good about that. I'm more worried about having a down year or two with all the linemen we're losing and everyone we're losing on defense. With Houston sticking around though, I'm much much less worried than I would be had he bolted.

But yeah, hopefully we can stick around like we all think we can for NDSU/JMU to remain the two premier FCS programs instead of just NDSU being the premier program. It would be so much fun if teams like App State, GSU, Montana, and maybe even ODUh were part of that right now though.

(01-11-2018 10:04 AM)TransAmBison Wrote:  The unforced mistakes thing I beg to differ with...to a point. It isn't like your qb had all day to throw without pressure. All those passes were not in perfect spots...a little behind at times. Then when a receiver does make a good catch, a fumble happens (I know, I know...questionable call). But you guys had great field position all game (partly due to great special teams play...not uncharacteristic of you)...and you still only got 13 points. Our defense played their game. Your offense just wasn't what it was a year ago. I would think you guys would agree on that.

I hear what you are saying about not coming out of nowhere. SHSU was up there in 2011 & 2012...but they have trailed off...still a good team, but not a challenger for a NC anymore. Time will tell if you guys continue to reload or if you slip back a bit. We are loaded for another run in 2018...but after that there will be a lot of question marks...see if we can continue to reload.

That is a heck of a 'to a point' to boilerplate. Sure, he was pressured as he has been all year, but players still dropped 9+ balls that hit them in the hands. Half of those there wasn't a defender within 3 yards which means it was purely on the WR/RB. Yes, he had pressure against him that caused incompletions (including some wide open receivers as previously mentioned and one HECK of an INT by a DL) but pressure on the QB does not cause dropped passes the vast majority of the time.

So I have to disagree, more than half of the dropped passes were unforced errors. Missing the TE wide open going into the endzone was an unforced error as there was no pressure impact on that play. If Schor makes that easy (relative obviously but it is a 10 yard pass to a wide open guy) throw and WR/RBs make the catches they are suppose to (which is excluding the 50/50 dropped passes which are forced errors) then JMU puts up another 10+ points easily.

(01-11-2018 10:04 AM)TransAmBison Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 09:24 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  yes, we were openly sure we were going to win and with good reason. We hadn't lost in 26 games. and frankly, most of us feel we SHOULD have won that game last weekend as well. We made some very, very uncharacteristic unforced mistakes.

heck, I even saw a fair number of NDSU fans saying the same thing. That you guys were very fortunate to win.

I think the amount of JMU fans paying compliments towards NDSU FAR outweighs the reverse though.

Let's not forget, before your run, we DID win a title (2004) and arguably should have played for another (2008 - ranked #1 all year, lost in the semis). It isn't like we just came to the party here. and that was back when there were a lot more "JMU/NDSU/Montana" supported level programs.....UMass, Ga Southern, App St, Texas St, etc

The unforced mistakes thing I beg to differ with...to a point. It isn't like your qb had all day to throw without pressure. All those passes were not in perfect spots...a little behind at times. Then when a receiver does make a good catch, a fumble happens (I know, I know...questionable call). But you guys had great field position all game (partly due to great special teams play...not uncharacteristic of you)...and you still only got 13 points. Our defense played their game. Your offense just wasn't what it was a year ago. I would think you guys would agree on that.

I hear what you are saying about not coming out of nowhere. SHSU was up there in 2011 & 2012...but they have trailed off...still a good team, but not a challenger for a NC anymore. Time will tell if you guys continue to reload or if you slip back a bit. We are loaded for another run in 2018...but after that there will be a lot of question marks...see if we can continue to reload.

The unforced errors I saw on Saturday were a bit different. I agree that the fumbles - faux or not - were forced by good defense. The INT on the goal line was a poorly thrown ball, and pressure was not severe. Schor had virtually unlimited space to make an error to the inside, and let the NDSU dback make a play. Tons of drops all day. The one that is not discussed as much was the missed throw to Kloosterman in the endzone. There was no NDSU help behind that play. Take a little zip off the ball and its a TD. Instead Schor launched it over Kloostermans head.

Any one, maybe 2 of those mistakes removed from the game and we have a different result. Mistakes part of the game however, and NDSU made very few.

This loss still doesn’t sting like the 2007 app state playoff game did, especially knowing we were that close to stopping them from winning their third in a row.
The ndsu loss had many mistakes and many bad calls, it was all game.
The app State loss was a single play fumble by our RB when we were being greedy and going for a TD in the final seconds when a game winning FG would’ve sufficed.
So in the realm of games where we were “that close”, app State 07 still reigns. I still remember how devastating that fumble felt.

(01-11-2018 03:57 PM)Potomac Wrote:  This loss still doesn’t sting like the 2007 app state playoff game did, especially knowing we were that close to stopping them from winning their third in a row.
The ndsu loss had many mistakes and many bad calls, it was all game.
The app State loss was a single play fumble by our RB when we were being greedy and going for a TD in the final seconds when a game winning FG would’ve sufficed.
So in the realm of games where we were “that close”, app State 07 still reigns. I still remember how devastating that fumble felt.

On a side note, I was so happy that it was Sullivan that took that pass to the house against VaTech AND was the guy who was grinding out the tough yards at the end to run out the time to beat them.

Now back to our regularly scheduled progranning.

(01-11-2018 04:07 PM)olddawg Wrote:  On a side note, I was so happy that it was Sullivan that took that pass to the house against VaTech AND was the guy who was grinding out the tough yards at the end to run out the time to beat them.

Now back to our regularly scheduled progranning.

Ahh I never realized (or remembered) that Sullivan was the player in both instances. A bit of redemption.

(01-11-2018 03:57 PM)Potomac Wrote:  This loss still doesn’t sting like the 2007 app state playoff game did, especially knowing we were that close to stopping them from winning their third in a row.
The ndsu loss had many mistakes and many bad calls, it was all game.
The app State loss was a single play fumble by our RB when we were being greedy and going for a TD in the final seconds when a game winning FG would’ve sufficed.
So in the realm of games where we were “that close”, app State 07 still reigns. I still remember how devastating that fumble felt.

awwww, nah. no way. the '07 game was definitely painful. i stared at the TV in disbelief. But that was an early round game.

this was for a title. with an all time great defense and a GREAT bunch of seniors.

I'm still not over it.

(01-09-2018 02:36 PM)JMUTrippster Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 02:07 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 02:03 PM)JMUTrippster Wrote:  Interesting to skim those threads. You're right that the Tide fans "recognize excellence" whereas the Minnesota fans are just salty because their team hasn't done anything at the FBS level as of late. Interesting to note that NDSU has played Minnesota 3 times and is 0-3, but the scores were 10-9 (2006 - first year NDSU played FBS competition); 27-21 (2007); and 37-24 (2011). My guess is if NDSU was given a shot at the Gophers next year they'd beat them.

NDSU won the 2007 and 2011 goames. They're 2-1 all time vs Minnesota and their one loss was by a point.

Shoot, you're right, completely misread that (after lunch haze I suppose). So that would explain why the Gopher fans are even more salty!

Crazy that since 2006 when they started playing FBS teams they have lost by a total of 21 points in three games, the largest margin was 17 against Iowa State in 2009!

Yeah, gophers taste better with a bit of salt added. You gotta love it when NDSU sends their "JV" team out on the road and end up beating the big, bad Varsity teams.

Very complimentary comments by the Tide fans. See you next year JMWho!

(01-11-2018 04:18 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 03:57 PM)Potomac Wrote:  This loss still doesn’t sting like the 2007 app state playoff game did, especially knowing we were that close to stopping them from winning their third in a row.
The ndsu loss had many mistakes and many bad calls, it was all game.
The app State loss was a single play fumble by our RB when we were being greedy and going for a TD in the final seconds when a game winning FG would’ve sufficed.
So in the realm of games where we were “that close”, app State 07 still reigns. I still remember how devastating that fumble felt.

awwww, nah. no way. the '07 game was definitely painful. i stared at the TV in disbelief. But that was an early round game.

this was for a title. with an all time great defense and a GREAT bunch of seniors.

I'm still not over it.

I was at that game and that one still hurts. I do agree that game left more of a sting than that one did because we had them. That stadium was quiet and I'll never forget seeing the ball fall out and hearing the eruption of the crowd. Didn't help that their fans were rubbing it in our faces as we walked back to our car.
It definitely made our win in '08 feel pretty good, though.

The balls that NDSU ripped out were good defensive plays. The QB pressure...that is them beating our guys too. The first Schor int was on Jackson. He whiffed on his block. Give Schor a millisecond longer and Stapleton walks into the end zone. The second int was all Schor. He floated a pass behind Hyman. That wasn’t great defense as Hyman had a half step. The ball should have been thrown hard and out in front of Hyman. If it was, it is a TD or incomplete.

(01-11-2018 04:18 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 03:57 PM)Potomac Wrote:  This loss still doesn’t sting like the 2007 app state playoff game did, especially knowing we were that close to stopping them from winning their third in a row.
The ndsu loss had many mistakes and many bad calls, it was all game.
The app State loss was a single play fumble by our RB when we were being greedy and going for a TD in the final seconds when a game winning FG would’ve sufficed.
So in the realm of games where we were “that close”, app State 07 still reigns. I still remember how devastating that fumble felt.

awwww, nah. no way. the '07 game was definitely painful. i stared at the TV in disbelief. But that was an early round game.

this was for a title. with an all time great defense and a GREAT bunch of seniors.

I'm still not over it.

That fumble probably cost JMU a title..