RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: The crash was caused by Wall Street taking over the secondary markets with little, if any government oversight.
This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: The crash was caused by Wall Street taking over the secondary markets with little, if any government oversight.
This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: The crash was caused by Wall Street taking over the secondary markets with little, if any government oversight.
This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: The crash was caused by Wall Street taking over the secondary markets with little, if any government oversight.
This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: The crash was caused by Wall Street taking over the secondary markets with little, if any government oversight.
This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
who was in control of regulating during that time period?
you don't know where I'm really going with this, do you???
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 12:50 AM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote: This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
who was in control of regulating during that time period?
you don't know where I'm really going with this, do you???
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: The crash was caused by Wall Street taking over the secondary markets with little, if any government oversight.
This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote: This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 09:31 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote: This article in the Atlantic (not necessarily a beacon of right-leaning viewpoints) discusses how I understand the origins of the mortage crisis, THe government was not only overseeing this effort, they encouraged it up to 2007.
and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight. Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
“I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks and others, was such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders”.
Alan Greenspan
Mr Greenspan accepted that the crisis had “found a flaw” in his thinking but said that the kind of heavy regulation that could have prevented the crisis would have damaged US economic growth. He described the past two decades as a “period of euphoria” that encouraged participants in the financial markets to misprice securities. He had wrongly assumed that lending institutions would carry out proper surveillance of their counterparties, he said. “I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working very well”.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2017 09:33 AM by Marc Mensa.)
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight. Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
“I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks and others, was such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders”.
Alan Greenspan
Mr Greenspan accepted that the crisis had “found a flaw” in his thinking but said that the kind of heavy regulation that could have prevented the crisis would have damaged US economic growth. He described the past two decades as a “period of euphoria” that encouraged participants in the financial markets to misprice securities. He had wrongly assumed that lending institutions would carry out proper surveillance of their counterparties, he said. “I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working very well”.
Greenspan was, in essence, referring to "to big to fail" I still do not think that has been fixed yet. Yes, living wills and higher requried capital levels (CET1, BASAL, etc) help but I have a feeling if the crap hit the fan again there would be another bail out.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight. Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
“I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks and others, was such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders”.
Alan Greenspan
Mr Greenspan accepted that the crisis had “found a flaw” in his thinking but said that the kind of heavy regulation that could have prevented the crisis would have damaged US economic growth. He described the past two decades as a “period of euphoria” that encouraged participants in the financial markets to misprice securities. He had wrongly assumed that lending institutions would carry out proper surveillance of their counterparties, he said. “I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working very well”.
I made the statement in my initial post on this topic....
Quote:who in their ethical right mind would loan money to someone with a credit rating relative to ZERO
I put this one in the tulips category of ponzi....the exception is many more were negatively affected that exists to this day....
ANNNNNND essentially, nobody went to jail.....
there's a reason the scion fund was disbanded and ol' boy moved to the boonies....sometimes making money on the short is too much for some to handle when they look in the mirror....
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 10:10 AM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote: that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight. Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
“I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks and others, was such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders”.
Alan Greenspan
Mr Greenspan accepted that the crisis had “found a flaw” in his thinking but said that the kind of heavy regulation that could have prevented the crisis would have damaged US economic growth. He described the past two decades as a “period of euphoria” that encouraged participants in the financial markets to misprice securities. He had wrongly assumed that lending institutions would carry out proper surveillance of their counterparties, he said. “I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working very well”.
I made the statement in my initial post on this topic....
Quote:who in their ethical right mind would loan money to someone with a credit rating relative to ZERO
I put this one in the tulips category of ponzi....the exception is many more were negatively affected that exists to this day....
ANNNNNND essentially, nobody went to jail.....
there's a reason the scion fund was disbanded and ol' boy moved to the boonies....sometimes making money on the short is too much for some to handle when they look in the mirror....
One good thing is banks are no longer allowed to rely on Moodys or S&P MBS/CDO ratings to buy said securities, etc. The banks must perform their own due diligence of which some do better than others.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 09:56 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote: that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight. Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
“I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks and others, was such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders”.
Alan Greenspan
Mr Greenspan accepted that the crisis had “found a flaw” in his thinking but said that the kind of heavy regulation that could have prevented the crisis would have damaged US economic growth. He described the past two decades as a “period of euphoria” that encouraged participants in the financial markets to misprice securities. He had wrongly assumed that lending institutions would carry out proper surveillance of their counterparties, he said. “I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working very well”.
Greenspan was, in essence, referring to "to big to fail" I still do not think that has been fixed yet. Yes, living wills and higher requried capital levels (CET1, BASAL, etc) help but I have a feeling if the crap hit the fan again there would be another bail out.
at some point, there won't be the funds worth their weight to bailout......
too many don't fully understand the principles behind #henceDJT......
we're in a war that nobody wants to discuss in totality......it's either over their head or scares the livin' shite out of 'em.....
this graph is worth posting again.....there's a reason ol' scion fund manager only invests in water today and lives in boonies...the writing is on the wall if #henceDJT fails....
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 10:14 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 10:10 AM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight. Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
“I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks and others, was such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders”.
Alan Greenspan
Mr Greenspan accepted that the crisis had “found a flaw” in his thinking but said that the kind of heavy regulation that could have prevented the crisis would have damaged US economic growth. He described the past two decades as a “period of euphoria” that encouraged participants in the financial markets to misprice securities. He had wrongly assumed that lending institutions would carry out proper surveillance of their counterparties, he said. “I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working very well”.
I made the statement in my initial post on this topic....
Quote:who in their ethical right mind would loan money to someone with a credit rating relative to ZERO
I put this one in the tulips category of ponzi....the exception is many more were negatively affected that exists to this day....
ANNNNNND essentially, nobody went to jail.....
there's a reason the scion fund was disbanded and ol' boy moved to the boonies....sometimes making money on the short is too much for some to handle when they look in the mirror....
One good thing is banks are no longer allowed to rely on Moodys or S&P MBS/CDO ratings to buy said securities, etc. The banks must perform their own due diligence of which some do better than others.
no question ol' boy single handed exposed the inevitable that forced changed legislation....I'm still not sold it's enough to overcome why those entities are still ethically valid....
big banking and the cronies can wave wands with more future impact than any EO....
that should scare the shite out of people as the purchasing power of the USD has declined to the point where our debt continues to grow under crazy spending policies.....
#henceDJT is doing what is necessary to postpone.....
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:25 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: and this is how I remember the origins of the mortgage crisis...
that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight.
Total bollocks. There was no point at which banks were not heavily regulated. The problem was at least in part conflicting regulations.
Once the bad loans were in the system, the crash was pretty much inevitable. All of the Wall Street stuff was maneuvering to try to forestall the inevitable using classic risk management tools. The problem was that the whole system had become so infected with toxic loans that there was no way to deal with it using classic tools.
Part of the problem was that no regulated entity was big enough to take on the risk. So the risks had to be laid off on non-regulated entities. And the regulators were up to their eye teeth in plans to do so. Everybody wanted the hot potato off their plates.
Quote:Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
Except it wasn't laissez-faire that went wrong. It was regulation that went wrong. It wasn't deregulation that was the problem, it was bad regulation. By the time deregulation entered the picture, we were already way past the point of no return.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 11:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-27-2017 11:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote: that's the end result......it's not the why.....
if you don't understand credit ratings and how they were manipulated, you're ******* clueless....wall st. only cares about the residual and reacts accordingly....
were their blind eyes with a patch on both.....dayum spiffy.....
however, yes, the big banking honchos did create a market that exposed their weakness within that ponzi schema.....that's the irony of the ignorance across the board....
jfc son............
Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight.
Total bollocks. There was no point at which banks were not heavily regulated. The problem was at least in part conflicting regulations.
Once the bad loans were in the system, the crash was pretty much inevitable. All of the Wall Street stuff was maneuvering to try to forestall the inevitable using classic risk management tools. The problem was that the whole system had become so infected with toxic loans that there was no way to deal with it using classic tools.
Part of the problem was that no regulated entity was big enough to take on the risk. So the risks had to be laid off on non-regulated entities. And the regulators were up to their eye teeth in plans to do so. Everybody wanted the hot potato off their plates.
Quote:Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
Except it wasn't laissez-faire that went wrong. It was regulation that went wrong. It wasn't deregulation that was the problem, it was bad regulation. By the time deregulation entered the picture, we were already way past the point of no return.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 11:36 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 11:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight.
Total bollocks. There was no point at which banks were not heavily regulated. The problem was at least in part conflicting regulations.
Once the bad loans were in the system, the crash was pretty much inevitable. All of the Wall Street stuff was maneuvering to try to forestall the inevitable using classic risk management tools. The problem was that the whole system had become so infected with toxic loans that there was no way to deal with it using classic tools.
Part of the problem was that no regulated entity was big enough to take on the risk. So the risks had to be laid off on non-regulated entities. And the regulators were up to their eye teeth in plans to do so. Everybody wanted the hot potato off their plates.
Quote:Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
Except it wasn't laissez-faire that went wrong. It was regulation that went wrong. It wasn't deregulation that was the problem, it was bad regulation. By the time deregulation entered the picture, we were already way past the point of no return.
100% wrong... but you certainly sound convincing
He is not wrong however as usual there is more to the story which has been explained adnaseum on this board.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 11:36 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 11:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight.
Total bollocks. There was no point at which banks were not heavily regulated. The problem was at least in part conflicting regulations.
Once the bad loans were in the system, the crash was pretty much inevitable. All of the Wall Street stuff was maneuvering to try to forestall the inevitable using classic risk management tools. The problem was that the whole system had become so infected with toxic loans that there was no way to deal with it using classic tools.
Part of the problem was that no regulated entity was big enough to take on the risk. So the risks had to be laid off on non-regulated entities. And the regulators were up to their eye teeth in plans to do so. Everybody wanted the hot potato off their plates.
Quote:Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
Except it wasn't laissez-faire that went wrong. It was regulation that went wrong. It wasn't deregulation that was the problem, it was bad regulation. By the time deregulation entered the picture, we were already way past the point of no return.
100% wrong... but you certainly sound convincing
It was a government regulatory failure. It wasnt a failure to regulate.
Do I need to post the video of some of the democrats apologizing for not reforming the housing market? Nah, I'll let you look that one up for yourself. You wont learn anything if we do all the work for you.
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 11:36 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 11:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote:
(12-28-2017 12:31 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote: Wall Street was flush with foreign money... money looking for safe investment... and there was no safer investment than the US housing market. At the same time, Fannie and Freddie were both on the sidelines during this period as a result of an accounting scandel, which freed Wall Street up to step into their place. Call it a perfect storm, call it what you will, but it was hardly Democratic political policy that prompted the crash. It was unadulterated greed.
The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight.
Total bollocks. There was no point at which banks were not heavily regulated. The problem was at least in part conflicting regulations.
Once the bad loans were in the system, the crash was pretty much inevitable. All of the Wall Street stuff was maneuvering to try to forestall the inevitable using classic risk management tools. The problem was that the whole system had become so infected with toxic loans that there was no way to deal with it using classic tools.
Part of the problem was that no regulated entity was big enough to take on the risk. So the risks had to be laid off on non-regulated entities. And the regulators were up to their eye teeth in plans to do so. Everybody wanted the hot potato off their plates.
Quote:Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
Except it wasn't laissez-faire that went wrong. It was regulation that went wrong. It wasn't deregulation that was the problem, it was bad regulation. By the time deregulation entered the picture, we were already way past the point of no return.
100% wrong... but you certainly sound convincing
So answer me three simple questions:
1) If the bad mortgages had never gotten into the system, what difference would it have made what Wall Street did?
2) Once the bad mortgages were into the system, how could the system have been saved?
3) Why did the bad mortgages get into the system in the first place? I mean, loaning money to someone who cannot repay you is not exactly a way to get rich. So there must have been some artificiality in the lending system that incentivized behavior that otherwise made no sense. What was that artificiality?
RE: Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
(12-28-2017 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(12-28-2017 11:36 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 11:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(12-28-2017 09:28 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:
(12-28-2017 08:51 AM)VA49er Wrote: The crisis was caused by, in no particular order....stupid business, stupid govt, and stupid individual citizens...all driven by greed. To blame one and not the others is silly.
while I agree with your statement, this is an occasion when government gave the banks exactly what it wanted and thats zero oversight.
Total bollocks. There was no point at which banks were not heavily regulated. The problem was at least in part conflicting regulations.
Once the bad loans were in the system, the crash was pretty much inevitable. All of the Wall Street stuff was maneuvering to try to forestall the inevitable using classic risk management tools. The problem was that the whole system had become so infected with toxic loans that there was no way to deal with it using classic tools.
Part of the problem was that no regulated entity was big enough to take on the risk. So the risks had to be laid off on non-regulated entities. And the regulators were up to their eye teeth in plans to do so. Everybody wanted the hot potato off their plates.
Quote:Derivatives fell inder the purview of the toothless CFTC and Rubin, Summers, Snow, Bernake, Greenspan, Clinton, & Bush received in exchange an artificially inflated bubble economy and kudos for their economic acumen. Greenspan is the one constant and later said his mistake was thinking capitalism would protect itself. Well, this is one case when it obviously did not. No, this was a case of laissez faire gone wrong... because all the players (borrowers, mortgage banks, wall street) were using and losing someone elses money.
Except it wasn't laissez-faire that went wrong. It was regulation that went wrong. It wasn't deregulation that was the problem, it was bad regulation. By the time deregulation entered the picture, we were already way past the point of no return.
100% wrong... but you certainly sound convincing
So answer me three simple questions:
1) If the bad mortgages had never gotten into the system, what difference would it have made what Wall Street did?
2) Once the bad mortgages were into the system, how could the system have been saved?
3) Why did the bad mortgages get into the system in the first place? I mean, loaning money to someone who cannot repay you is not exactly a way to get rich. So there must have been some artificiality in the lending system that incentivized behavior that otherwise made no sense. What was that artificiality?
Wall Street created a secondary market, outside of the traditional GSE's, that led to the proliferation of fly by night mortgage brokers. They had billions in foreign dollars looking for safe investment in the US housing market. Quite frankly, they had more money than credit worthy borrowers, yet they were able to slice and dice the paper and hide the risky debt into MBS. The credit rating agencies were strong armed into grading the crappy paper as A or B and people kept flooding in the money... until the inevitable happened.
Yes, Fannie and Freddie eventually joined in... but they were late to the game. Government backed loans took too long and required too many steps. Wall Street, on the other hand, was giving the money away and people were taking it. It all sounds crazy now, but everyone in this country was taking advantage. It was the ponzi scheme to end all ponzi schemes.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2017 12:38 PM by Marc Mensa.)
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Joy Reid’s Bizarre Claim: Obama’s ‘Stimulus’ Was A Bigger Tax Cut Than Trump’s
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