(12-21-2017 12:32 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:30 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:07 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Single Payer is great as long as you're healthy.

Single payer is better than the GOP plan if you're sick.

If the GOP plan is simply to go back to what we had before OBlundercare, then no it is not.

They have no intention of reinstating the risk pools. If they do, they'll do the following

1) Require people to get turned down by insurance companies to access them. In order to apply so they can get turned down, they'll have to spend 2000+ hours collecting every medical record for every doctor they've ever seen, and every pill they've ever taken.

2) And then, they'll get to pay 10 times what they did 10 years ago for a third of the coverage.

OR (what's really going to happen)

3) They'll offer 'Trump University' type healthcare policies that don't cover things like diabetes, hospitials, cancer, etc. with no out of pocket maximum and few providers and say 'see...we've got an insurance plan for you". It might even come with a card good for 10% off medicine at a list price 200% higher than it was last year.

OR I will simply go back to having real insurance with real access to affordable care that I had before.

AND maybe people who are living a dangerous or risky lifestyle will have to pay up and have their coverage limited.

Its called freedom of choice.

I didn't choose to get type 1 diabetes as a thin 9 year old.

You're a real piece of ......(I'll insert work as the 4 letter word here).

---

Hey, and maybe we should just let a disease spread and mutate because you're too cheap to fund the research so that you can set off a disease like AIDS and wipe out 100 million people and create millions of orphans and trillions in lost economic activity... just like Reagan's folks did, for political reasons in the 1980s.

---

Hey, are you good with doubling insurance premiums based upon the presence of multiple firearms in the home? Or how about a refusal to write health insurance policies covering homes with motorcycle riders? I'm sure there are healthcare consequences of some of those activities too.

(12-21-2017 12:48 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:30 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  3) They'll offer 'Trump University' type healthcare policies that don't cover things like diabetes, hospitials, cancer, etc. with no out of pocket maximum and few providers and say 'see...we've got an insurance plan for you". It might even come with a card good for 10% off medicine at a list price 200% higher than it was last year.

Actually they might bring back major medical which *DOES* cover things like cancer and emergencies while not forcing a 20yo to buy coverage which geriatric conditions or other things that don't impact him.

Yea, until they're 80 and - oh wait - I need a geriatric policy...ooops no one will offer it because they cant make money selling a policy for geriatrics without a pool of people that are younger in it.

The problem with health care is that the private sector in the USA cannot work.

But you know what? If there was single payer, then everyone at every age, would be guaranteed means based health care coverage that works for them.

(12-21-2017 03:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:48 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Actually they might bring back major medical which *DOES* cover things like cancer and emergencies while not forcing a 20yo to buy coverage which geriatric conditions or other things that don't impact him.

Yea, until they're 80 and - oh wait - I need a geriatric policy...ooops no one will offer it because they cant make money selling a policy for geriatrics without a pool of people that are younger in it.

]The problem with health care is that the private sector in the USA cannot work.

Having seen the Canadian medical system tell my grandfather, you're too old for us to treat your cancer with anything but hospice, color me skeptical.

Quote:But you know what? If there was single payer, then everyone at every age, would be guaranteed means based health care coverage that works for them.

Yes but the elderly, like my grandfather would be told... Sorry we only have the resources to treat cancer in tax payers, not tax takers.

(12-21-2017 12:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:07 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Single Payer is great as long as you're healthy.

Single payer is better than the GOP plan if you're sick.

You can spout out whatever you want. Fact is, I'm gainfully employed, am covered by company plan, that plan was seriously degraded due to ObamaCare, the cost of the degraded plan increased, and now I can't afford to use the plan because it costs too much out-of-pocket.


So, for me and tens of millions of others, the GOP plan -- heck, or NO plan -- is much better than ObamaCare.

(12-21-2017 06:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:07 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Single Payer is great as long as you're healthy.

Single payer is better than the GOP plan if you're sick.

You can spout out whatever you want. Fact is, I'm gainfully employed, am covered by company plan, that plan was seriously degraded due to ObamaCare, the cost of the degraded plan increased, and now I can't afford to use the plan because it costs too much out-of-pocket.


So, for me and tens of millions of others, the GOP plan -- heck, or NO plan -- is much better than ObamaCare.

those are the stories that truly piss me the **** off.....those are the ones I believe in fighting for at this point....

my daughter is now 18.5 yrs old,,,...and I'm going to do everything in my power to promote growth via strength in gainful employment being the difference maker vs. subsidized welfare.....

#heilincentive

(12-21-2017 06:19 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 03:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:48 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Actually they might bring back major medical which *DOES* cover things like cancer and emergencies while not forcing a 20yo to buy coverage which geriatric conditions or other things that don't impact him.

Yea, until they're 80 and - oh wait - I need a geriatric policy...ooops no one will offer it because they cant make money selling a policy for geriatrics without a pool of people that are younger in it.

]The problem with health care is that the private sector in the USA cannot work.

Having seen the Canadian medical system tell my grandfather, you're too old for us to treat your cancer with anything but hospice, color me skeptical.

Quote:But you know what? If there was single payer, then everyone at every age, would be guaranteed means based health care coverage that works for them.

Yes but the elderly, like my grandfather would be told... Sorry we only have the resources to treat cancer in tax payers, not tax takers.

BTW, any evidence a Trumpcare plan would have treated your grandfather in the USA? You know, I can't even BUY a policy at my local taxpayer funded and built PUBLIC cancer hospital in my own town....at any price.

So guess what? Your grandfather and I are in the same boat as far as healthcare goes. We have to pay 1000 times the 'regular' price for any healthcare at cancer hospitals.

Most Canadians don't want our system at all. And guess what, the cancer hospitals in Buffalo will gladly take him for the same ridiculous price that they charge people who cannot get insurance that covers them in the USA.

-----

How much do you think a comprehensive cancer policy should cost that covers 100 percent of treatment costs at a local public cancer center (mine happens to be MD Anderson, a taxpayer built and owned public hospital).

(12-22-2017 02:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  BTW, any evidence a Trumpcare plan would have treated your grandfather in the USA?

Other than the fact as a dual citizen he came over here and got treated? That's right Canada said "too old, go and die in peace"... The US said "Here is chemo and three more years of life"..

Quote:You know, I can't even BUY a policy at my local taxpayer funded and built PUBLIC cancer hospital in my own town....at any price.

I don't want to call you a liar, but you're lying...

Quote:So guess what? Your grandfather and I are in the same boat as far as healthcare goes. We have to pay 1000 times the 'regular' price for any healthcare at cancer hospitals.

So if what you say is true the single payer Canadian model is *NO* better.

Quote:Most Canadians don't want our system at all.

Wait until they are old and have cancer... Wait until they have a heart attack in Fort Erie Ontario and crossing an international border for a US emergency room will get you seen faster than a Canadian ER.

Quote:And guess what, the cancer hospitals in Buffalo will gladly take him for the same ridiculous price that they charge people who cannot get insurance that covers them in the USA.

He actually got treated off of the SS he had earned working in the US during his younger years.

Fear not Tom, despite the heartless "no" votes cast by democrats, republicans have saved the children.

(12-21-2017 12:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:07 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Single Payer is great as long as you're healthy.

Single payer is better than the GOP plan if you're sick.

Nonsense. I take care of uninsured patients all the time. I have a patient who has very aggressive, advanced prostate cancer who has no insurance that has been operated by us twice and sees a local oncologist monthly.

(12-22-2017 10:13 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 12:07 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Single Payer is great as long as you're healthy.

Single payer is better than the GOP plan if you're sick.

Nonsense. I take care of uninsured patients all the time. I have a patient who has very aggressive, advanced prostate cancer who has no insurance that has been operated by us twice and sees a local oncologist monthly.

Tom is the king of hyperbole and one of those that are convinced that communism is better than the current system.......even though it's failed every time - they'll do it right this time.....

I will never understand how people believe "the government will do it better" when they never do... I guess they figure they can't "win" unless they can install a government that will tip the scales in their favor....

(12-22-2017 05:51 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 02:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  BTW, any evidence a Trumpcare plan would have treated your grandfather in the USA?

Other than the fact as a dual citizen he came over here and got treated? That's right Canada said "too old, go and die in peace"... The US said "Here is chemo and three more years of life"..

Quote:You know, I can't even BUY a policy at my local taxpayer funded and built PUBLIC cancer hospital in my own town....at any price.

I don't want to call you a liar, but you're lying...

Quote:So guess what? Your grandfather and I are in the same boat as far as healthcare goes. We have to pay 1000 times the 'regular' price for any healthcare at cancer hospitals.

So if what you say is true the single payer Canadian model is *NO* better.

Quote:Most Canadians don't want our system at all.

Wait until they are old and have cancer... Wait until they have a heart attack in Fort Erie Ontario and crossing an international border for a US emergency room will get you seen faster than a Canadian ER.

Quote:And guess what, the cancer hospitals in Buffalo will gladly take him for the same ridiculous price that they charge people who cannot get insurance that covers them in the USA.

He actually got treated off of the SS he had earned working in the US during his younger years.

Uh, try to buy a policy that covers MD Anderson, which is my public cancer hospital. It was built by the taxpayers and is owned by the taxpayers. They refuse to negotiate in good faith with any insurance company. If you have so much as high blood pressure, you cannot get an individual policy that covers MD Anderson. So, please let me know the individual, open enrollment policy that covers MD Anderson available to Houston residents. It can be at any price.

(12-23-2017 12:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 05:51 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 02:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  BTW, any evidence a Trumpcare plan would have treated your grandfather in the USA?

Other than the fact as a dual citizen he came over here and got treated? That's right Canada said "too old, go and die in peace"... The US said "Here is chemo and three more years of life"..

Quote:You know, I can't even BUY a policy at my local taxpayer funded and built PUBLIC cancer hospital in my own town....at any price.

I don't want to call you a liar, but you're lying...

Quote:So guess what? Your grandfather and I are in the same boat as far as healthcare goes. We have to pay 1000 times the 'regular' price for any healthcare at cancer hospitals.

So if what you say is true the single payer Canadian model is *NO* better.

Quote:Most Canadians don't want our system at all.

Wait until they are old and have cancer... Wait until they have a heart attack in Fort Erie Ontario and crossing an international border for a US emergency room will get you seen faster than a Canadian ER.

Quote:And guess what, the cancer hospitals in Buffalo will gladly take him for the same ridiculous price that they charge people who cannot get insurance that covers them in the USA.

He actually got treated off of the SS he had earned working in the US during his younger years.

Uh, try to buy a policy that covers MD Anderson, which is my public cancer hospital. It was built by the taxpayers and is owned by the taxpayers. They refuse to negotiate in good faith with any insurance company. If you have so much as high blood pressure, you cannot get an individual policy that covers MD Anderson. So, please let me know the individual, open enrollment policy that covers MD Anderson available to Houston residents. It can be at any price.

Actually Tom, I seem to recall you HAD a policy that covered MD Anderson. But you lost that when along came Obamacare.

(12-23-2017 12:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 05:51 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 02:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  BTW, any evidence a Trumpcare plan would have treated your grandfather in the USA?

Other than the fact as a dual citizen he came over here and got treated? That's right Canada said "too old, go and die in peace"... The US said "Here is chemo and three more years of life"..

Quote:You know, I can't even BUY a policy at my local taxpayer funded and built PUBLIC cancer hospital in my own town....at any price.

I don't want to call you a liar, but you're lying...

Quote:So guess what? Your grandfather and I are in the same boat as far as healthcare goes. We have to pay 1000 times the 'regular' price for any healthcare at cancer hospitals.

So if what you say is true the single payer Canadian model is *NO* better.

Quote:Most Canadians don't want our system at all.

Wait until they are old and have cancer... Wait until they have a heart attack in Fort Erie Ontario and crossing an international border for a US emergency room will get you seen faster than a Canadian ER.

Quote:And guess what, the cancer hospitals in Buffalo will gladly take him for the same ridiculous price that they charge people who cannot get insurance that covers them in the USA.

He actually got treated off of the SS he had earned working in the US during his younger years.

Uh, try to buy a policy that covers MD Anderson, which is my public cancer hospital. It was built by the taxpayers and is owned by the taxpayers. They refuse to negotiate in good faith with any insurance company. If you have so much as high blood pressure, you cannot get an individual policy that covers MD Anderson. So, please let me know the individual, open enrollment policy that covers MD Anderson available to Houston residents. It can be at any price.

And this compares to the entire country of Canada telling my grandfather to go off to a corner and die how exactly?