(12-14-2017 12:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:46 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

Except when it doesn't work and the deficit and debt skyrocket. What then? Cuts to SS and Medicare, that's what!

Oblunder raised the deficit more than anyone. Were you concerned then?

Obama had no choice but to bail out the friggin bankers after GWB ran the economy into the ditch with his catastrophic tax cuts and Iraq War. You know, so our entire economy didn't collapse.

Trump's tax cut is 90% or more for the top 0.5% and will be in response....to no particular need. Just run up the deficit for no purpose.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

(12-14-2017 12:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Patiently waiting for the Toms to reaffirm they're still drinking Kool Aid or come to terms with the truth.

I already admitted that you can rightly take issue with the typical DC shenanigans to get the ACA passed.

But still, the vast majority of this bill was debated Congressionally and publicly for a good year. This tax bill is by no means comparable in that regard.

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

Ronald Regan tried that and how did it turn out?

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

Well, he didn't do it with corporate tax cuts, so that's what they say is different now.

It still won't work for a couple key factors. Mainly labor costs, the bulk of corporate expense. It will continue to remain cheaper in foreign countries. No way the cuts in taxes are going to offset that when you factor in the costs of moving operations back here.

(12-14-2017 12:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Patiently waiting for the Toms to reaffirm they're still drinking Kool Aid or come to terms with the truth.

Again, there has been no public input on this bill. Zero. Zilch. Nada. How many Congressmen have had townhalls in their districts with open microphones open to all constiutuents on this?

The timeframe on this thing is incredibly rushed. Laughably so. Only the joke is going to be on anyone who doesn't have 7 mill or more in liquid assets.

During Obamacare, there were YEARS of input. On this, pretty much nothing.

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

Actually quite well. The mortgage and securities fraud crisis that hit in 2007 had nothing to do with the 2001 tax cuts. 2 completely separate issues.

(12-14-2017 12:46 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

Except when it doesn't work and the deficit and debt skyrocket. What then? Cuts to SS and Medicare, that's what!

Oblunder raised the deficit more than anyone. Were you concerned then?

Remember ... they used tricks to game the CBO. They installed 10 years of ObamaCare taxes for 6 years of benefits. The CBO is only allowed to forecast 10 years into the future. So the CBO returned with a "this saves money!" statement. Well I damn well hope you'd be able to come out in the black collecting a decade of taxes for 6 years of benefits.

(12-14-2017 01:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Again, there has been no public input on this bill. Zero. Zilch. Nada. How many Congressmen have had townhalls in their districts with open microphones open to all constiutuents on this?

The timeframe on this thing is incredibly rushed. Laughably so. Only the joke is going to be on anyone who doesn't have 7 mill or more in liquid assets.

During Obamacare, there were YEARS of input. On this, pretty much nothing.

And in the REAL ObamaCare bill there has been no public input. You don't get any credit for holding town halls on an unrelated bill. Zero credit. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Bupkiss. Null set.

Watch the Washington Post video.

(12-14-2017 12:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  the vast majority of this bill was debated Congressionally and publicly for a good year.

NO IT WAS NOT. An unrelated healthcare bill that was discarded entirely was publicly debated for a good year.

(12-14-2017 01:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  During Obamacare, there were YEARS of input.

None of which made it into the bill that was passed.

How are you guys getting to see Tax Cuts out of this bill? Mine are guaranteed to go up if this passes, and I'm not exactly wealthy

(12-14-2017 01:00 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:59 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

LOL. Bush tried that, how did that turnout?

Ronald Regan tried that and how did it turn out?

leave out skewed data from '83 and '84 and what did it do?

(12-14-2017 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  How are you guys getting to see Tax Cuts out of this bill? Mine are guaranteed to go up if this passes, and I'm not exactly wealthy

I have 3 children (well the 3rd is due any day) so I don't see how my taxes go anywhere but down with the doubling of the child tax credit. I expect to get about $300 per month more out of my paycheck and my wife about $200. That almost pays for the $600 per month extra in daycare we are about to be saddled with.

(12-14-2017 12:46 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

Except when it doesn't work and the deficit and debt skyrocket. What then? Cuts to SS and Medicare, that's what!

Oblunder raised the deficit more than anyone. Were you concerned then?

More than every president in history combined

(12-14-2017 02:42 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  How are you guys getting to see Tax Cuts out of this bill? Mine are guaranteed to go up if this passes, and I'm not exactly wealthy

I have 3 children (well the 3rd is due any day) so I don't see how my taxes go anywhere but down with the doubling of the child tax credit. I expect to get about $300 per month more out of my paycheck and my wife about $200. That almost pays for the $600 per month extra in daycare we are about to be saddled with.

I'm self employed, but I am not yet old enough to have family of my own. I rely specifically on itemized deductions to keep my taxes from getting out of control, and right now a few those deductions are getting repealed.

If I had kids, or one of those jobs where taxes are taken out of your paycheck every month, it'd be different. But because my job chose a few years ago to switch to a self employment model (Right around the time Obamacare passed), I'm getting screwed. It's no fun. Right now I'm looking at about 600 bucks more per year

(12-14-2017 02:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:46 PM)appst89 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 12:38 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Investment flows back into America...Economy is revved up....tax revenues increase....people get to keep more of the fruits of their labors. Nothing to be unhappy about IMO.

Except when it doesn't work and the deficit and debt skyrocket. What then? Cuts to SS and Medicare, that's what!

Oblunder raised the deficit more than anyone. Were you concerned then?

More than every president in history combined

were you concerned when Bush did it?

(12-14-2017 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  How are you guys getting to see Tax Cuts out of this bill? Mine are guaranteed to go up if this passes, and I'm not exactly wealthy

If you live in a state with high taxes, your taxes probably will go up. Here's the corollary question: why should taxpayers in other states subsidize your state?

If that isn't the case, reply back, I'd be interested in going into the details.

I'm not saying the bill is perfect. But it appears as though it may be some progress overall.

(12-14-2017 02:46 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I'm self employed, but I am not yet old enough to have family of my own. I rely specifically on itemized deductions to keep my taxes from getting out of control, and right now a few those deductions are getting repealed.

If I had kids, or one of those jobs where taxes are taken out of your paycheck every month, it'd be different. But because my job chose a few years ago to switch to a self employment model (Right around the time Obamacare passed), I'm getting screwed. It's no fun. Right now I'm looking at about 600 bucks more per year

Also self-employed and sans family here. The standard deduction, last I saw, was being doubled. And the mortgage deduction was still in place up to $500,000. And the property tax deduction was still in place up to $10,000. I also itemize, but only come out about 10-15% better than the standard deduction. So doubling the standard deduction is a win for me.

(12-14-2017 02:48 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  How are you guys getting to see Tax Cuts out of this bill? Mine are guaranteed to go up if this passes, and I'm not exactly wealthy

If you live in a state with high taxes, your taxes probably will go up. Here's the corollary question: why should taxpayers in other states subsidize your state?

If that isn't the case, reply back, I'd be interested in going into the details.

I'm not saying the bill is perfect. But it appears as though it may be some progress overall.

Yeah, state income taxes will get me, though my federal is going up as well. I've been given the option in a few months of moving out of the state to Tennessee, where there is no state income tax. Not sure what I want to do, because the cost of living is much higher.