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California considering mileage tax
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #21
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-13-2017 11:32 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12...leage-tax/

How would you enforce and collect on this without literally tracking every mile on every car

Actually, it makes sense, from an economic point of view. Use more roads, pay more of the cost of their upkeep.

When all cars used gasoline, then a gas tax pretty much was used as a proxy. But in an era with electric cars, there are a lot of free riders.

I figured the right wingers would love something that is used to remove a benefit of gas using automobiles.

That's what a toll road is for. Look at Beltway 8 and the Grand Parkway (or State Highway 99) for examples. Lawmakers said they would be toll roads until those particular roads were paid for. Now, in the case of Beltway 8, which I live off of, it's still mostly a toll road. State officials consider it a bit of a cash cow, if you know what I mean. Most local residents, however, (at least people I've talked to, admittedly) would rather it be a free road.

What I'm saying is California needs to be careful. Do they really want to tax its citizens so much that they end up leaving the state in droves altogether?
12-13-2017 11:50 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #22
RE: California considering mileage tax
So now people in Cali that drive gas powered cars will pay gas tax plus mileage tax? I guess that is a backhanded way of saying they still want you to drive electric, just don't want to still get paid if you do. I thought originally they said that the revenue loss would be made up for with lower health costs and such?
12-13-2017 11:55 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #23
RE: California considering mileage tax
Government: You need to make more fuel efficient cars! WE DEMAND YOU MAKE MORE FUEL EFFICIENT CARS! We will shut you down if you don't!

Private Sector: Uhh ... OK. We'll make the cars out of cheap but light plastics. So the cars will fall apart more quickly, particularly with trim, but get better mileage because they carry less weight. We'll stop having frame rails which we then mount the body panels to and instead transition to using a monocoque chassis. This means it is again lighter and thus more fuel efficient. And it also means it's way easier to total your car. Just ask your local Sheriff Department how much they enjoy having to declare every seriously wrecked police car totaled, whereas with the old Crown Victoria they could even fix severely warped frame rails, and typically only had to bolt on new body panels. For those keeping score, that's the government demanding that other parts of government cost more. But whatever. And lastly, to keep safety ratings high with all these lighter flimsier materials, we'll make complicated crumple zones to absorb energy but, again, make it far easier to total the car. Lastly, we'll start introducing hybrid cars. Pay no mind to the fact that you have to rape the Earth to get the materials for and manufacture the batteries. And the batteries will probably only last you a decade. It gets great mileage though!

Government: HEY! You created fuel efficient cars and that means we get less gas tax. So now we need to monitor the mileage of every single vehicle. This means either government vehicle inspections or, more creepily and insidiously, installing "insurance-esk" ODB2 tools which communicate via cellular data networks to tell us where you are and precisely how you are driving at all times.



So the government is crying about a problem they created. And it isn't even that obvious or clear to me that they actually did less damage to the environment by doing this. Perhaps the most environmentally friendly car is one built like a tank like the Crown Victoria even if it only gets 18 mpg. If it lasts 30 years, that's a lot of value out of those materials. And it's not uncommon to see Crown Vics still going 3 decades later. Do you see many plastic econo-boxes still going after 3 decades? How about the environmental impact of having TWO ENGINES for hybrids? And the batteries, my God the batteries. Nickel mining is a filthy business and causes acid rain. And you need a crapload of it for hybrid batteries. And the supply chain on making those batteries is ridiculous. You're sourcing materials and parts and components from several CONTINENTS. How the hell is that efficient or environmentally friendly?



We're from the government, and we're here to help pass sweeping feel good legislation backed by massive ignorance. But hey, a big chunk of the electorate likes that we're "doing something" and is probably even more ignorant than we are. So we'll cash in those votes and consequences and analysis and objective quantification be damned!
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2017 12:27 AM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
12-14-2017 12:01 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 12:01 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Government: You need to make more fuel efficient cars! WE DEMAND YOU MAKE MORE FUEL EFFICIENT CARS! We will shut you down if you don't!

Private Sector: Uhh ... OK. We'll make the cars out of cheap but light plastics. So the cars will fall apart more quickly, particularly with trim, but get better mileage because they carry less weight. We'll stop having frame rails which we then mount the body panels to and instead transition to using a monocoque chassis. This means it is again lighter and thus more fuel efficient. And it also means it's way easier to total your car. Just ask your local Sheriff Department how much they enjoy having to declare every seriously wrecked police car totaled, whereas with the old Crown Victoria they could even fix severely warped frame rails, and typically only had to bolt on new body panels. For those keeping score, that's the government demanding that other parts of government cost more. But whatever. And lastly, to keep safety ratings high with all these lighter flimsier materials, we'll make complicated crumple zones to absorb energy but, again, make it far easier to total the car. Lastly, we'll start introducing hybrid cars. Pay no mind to the fact that you have to rape the Earth to get the materials for and manufacture the batteries. And the batteries will probably only last you a decade. It gets great mileage though!

Government: HEY! You created fuel efficient cars and that means we get less gas tax. So now we need to monitor the mileage of every single vehicle. This means either government vehicle inspections or, more creepily and insidiously, installing "insurance-esk" ODB2 tools which communicate via cellular data networks to tell us where you are and precisely how you are driving at all times.



So the government is crying about a problem they created. And it isn't even that obvious or clear to me that they actually did less damage to the environment by doing this. Perhaps the most environmentally friendly car is one built like a tank like the Crown Victoria even if it only gets 18 mpg. If it lasts 30 years, that's a lot of value out of those materials. And it's not uncommon to see Crown Vics still going 3 decades later. Do you see many plastic econo-boxes still going after 3 decades? How about the environmental impact of having TWO ENGINES for hybrids? And the batteries, my God the batteries. Nickel mining is a filthy business and causes acid rain. And you need a crapload of it for hyrbid batteries. And the supply chain on making those batteries is ridiculous. You're sourcing materials and parts and components from more several CONTINENTS. How the hell is that efficient or environmentally friendly?



We're from the government, and we're here to help pass sweeping feel good legislation backed by massive ignorance. But hey, a big chunk of the electorate likes that we're "doing something" and is probably even more ignorant than we are. So we'll cash in those votes and consequences and analysis and objective quantification be damned!
Solid rant. Fill her up with Ethyl.
12-14-2017 12:05 AM
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banker Offline
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Post: #25
RE: California considering mileage tax
How do you really feel about it, GTS?
12-14-2017 12:08 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #26
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 12:08 AM)banker Wrote:  How do you really feel about it, GTS?


The more you know the more terrifying the clarity of your vision to how destructive, ignorant, deliberately deceptive, petty, unjust, violent, anti-public interest, anti-civil liberty, anti-competition, anti-free market, pseudointellectual, megalomanical, and capriciously malevolent the government and the sociopaths who run it are. Yeah, there are good people out there working in government and trying to do the right thing. Most of them are hugely, willfully, and wantonly ignorant. And virtually none of them are in positions of power.

Before I gave up on the political process I worked hard at changing it from within and educational outreach. I worked inside the Ron Paul campaign and volunteered my *** off both cycles he ran. I was the guy who would go read the policy paper analysis from The Cato Institute. And Heritage. And Demos. And the Brookings Institution. And the Hoover Institute. And the Mercatus Center. And the Pew Research Center. And the Kaiser Family Foundation. Even though I don't agree with most of them, you can usually find some inconvenient truths about your own side by reading the other. For example: I'm an atheist, but viewed from the perspective of wisdom as to the good and terrible of human nature and our rise from the slime to a civilized society, the Bible is one of my very favorite books. Well rounded, if you will. This is why I'm such a staunch libertarian ... the default libertarian position is I DON'T F***ING KNOW how to run your life for you better than you do, and that's even after hitting the books hard. So I'm not going to bother trying, even if it is in theory "for your own good" but almost never is. Politics views the entire world as black and white. The older I get the more shades of grey I see everywhere I look.
12-14-2017 12:23 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #27
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-13-2017 10:05 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:30 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12...leage-tax/

How would you enforce and collect on this without literally tracking every mile on every car



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

That sounds like a supreme court case waiting to happen

Can a state government track your car agaisnt your will for the purpose of taxation?
Washington state already does it, I believe. You could also not track it and use the mileage in an annual inspection, but then you get taxed when you drive out of state as well.

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12-14-2017 06:26 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #28
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 06:26 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 10:05 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:30 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12...leage-tax/

How would you enforce and collect on this without literally tracking every mile on every car



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

That sounds like a supreme court case waiting to happen

Can a state government track your car agaisnt your will for the purpose of taxation?
Washington state already does it, I believe. You could also not track it and use the mileage in an annual inspection, but then you get taxed when you drive out of state as well.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

that is lunacy. submit to an invasion of privacy or pay extra taxes?
12-14-2017 08:15 AM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 08:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 06:26 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 10:05 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:30 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12...leage-tax/

How would you enforce and collect on this without literally tracking every mile on every car



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

That sounds like a supreme court case waiting to happen

Can a state government track your car agaisnt your will for the purpose of taxation?
Washington state already does it, I believe. You could also not track it and use the mileage in an annual inspection, but then you get taxed when you drive out of state as well.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

that is lunacy. submit to an invasion of privacy or pay extra taxes?

That ship has sailed years ago...

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(This post was last modified: 12-14-2017 08:21 AM by miko33.)
12-14-2017 08:20 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #30
RE: California considering mileage tax
its one thing if a business has a loyalty program. its another if the government is mandating you allow them to track you.
12-14-2017 08:21 AM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 08:21 AM)solohawks Wrote:  its one thing if a business has a loyalty program. its another if the government is mandating you allow them to track you.

In some cases, we've voluntarily given up our privacy rights. In other ways, we really have not. #smartphones, #surveilancecameras, #internet
12-14-2017 08:23 AM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: California considering mileage tax
California Liberals are killing it's own citizens with all of this taxation. How can anyone there support Their families when the state takes the very money They earned. Between the Government and very strict environmental laws, that also lead to these massive fires annually because restrictions on removing underbrush that fuel these fires are prohibited. I really feel sorry for "Americans" living in California as it's Them footing the bills there.
12-14-2017 08:42 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 08:42 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  California Liberals are killing it's own citizens with all of this taxation. How can anyone there support Their families when the state takes the very money They earned. Between the Government and very strict environmental laws, that also lead to these massive fires annually because restrictions on removing underbrush that fuel these fires are prohibited. I really feel sorry for "Americans" living in California as it's Them footing the bills there.

I think they should institute a dicke tax in California. All men should pay it because you never know when some guy is gonna think a chick is hot. Cut out the middle man.
12-14-2017 09:27 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #34
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-13-2017 11:32 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 09:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12...leage-tax/

How would you enforce and collect on this without literally tracking every mile on every car

Actually, it makes sense, from an economic point of view. Use more roads, pay more of the cost of their upkeep.

When all cars used gasoline, then a gas tax pretty much was used as a proxy. But in an era with electric cars, there are a lot of free riders.

I figured the right wingers would love something that is used to remove a benefit of gas using automobiles.

why not simply increase the property tax for those that own an electric vehicle???

lmfao at this thread.......******* cali and the knee jerk reactive biatches.....
12-14-2017 09:48 AM
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GrayBeard Offline
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Post: #35
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-13-2017 10:06 PM)shere khan Wrote:  They should do it. 50 cents per mile.

I hate you.
12-14-2017 10:44 AM
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GrayBeard Offline
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Post: #36
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-13-2017 10:26 PM)shere khan Wrote:  California should tax them double if they leave the state

I really hate you.
12-14-2017 10:46 AM
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MemTigers1998 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: California considering mileage tax
You couldn't pay me to live there. Freaks, liberals, weirdos, liberals, Hollywood perverts, taxes out the a$$, liberals, and on it goes. Maybe if the fires and earthquakes don't get them, it'll Calexit off into the Pacific Ocean.

The land of fruits and nuts!!
12-14-2017 11:19 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #38
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 11:19 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  You couldn't pay me to live there. Freaks, liberals, weirdos, liberals, Hollywood perverts, taxes out the a$$, liberals, and on it goes. Maybe if the fires and earthquakes don't get them, it'll Calexit off into the Pacific Ocean.

The land of fruits and nuts!!

((in (im)proper pikey speak)) fock da cuck fockin' fairies....03-wink 04-cheers
12-14-2017 11:44 AM
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Siborg Offline
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Post: #39
RE: California considering mileage tax
Question? Would this fall under SALT deductions? If so, many of us will help pay this tax.
12-14-2017 11:59 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #40
RE: California considering mileage tax
(12-14-2017 11:59 AM)Siborg Wrote:  Question? Would this fall under SALT deductions? If so, many of us will help pay this tax.

Not after the GOP passes tax reform.
12-14-2017 12:22 PM
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