(12-13-2017 10:27 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Democrat Rules to Winning An Election:
1. Accuse the other nominee of being a child abuser without a single shed of evidence.
2. Repeat Step 1.

He had been fired from his judgeships not once, but twice before, and had completely off-the-wall opinions on minorities (who came out in droves to vote against him) way before any accusers came forward.

Moore was (well, is) an idiot, period, and the voters gave him a resounding rejection. Common sense wins the day.

He hasn't won yet. Remember I said the fix was in. Don't be surprised if Alabama finds a way to change it up.

Did Moore concede last night? I didn't watch any of it.

I think a lot of people are misinterpreting what happened last night. Jones ran a solid campaign and did a hell of a job motivating people to show up. However, none of that would have mattered had Moore not been the candidate. Despite what outsiders may think, people in this state are by no means united in their opinion of the guy. A lot of the people that hate Moore the most down here are Republicans.

I would have preferred Moore to win just for the lulz, but in the end it's probably for the better.

Even though I am of Alabama blood and stock, my current opinion is irrelevant. The voters of the Great State of Alabama have spoken.

(12-13-2017 10:53 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 10:23 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  This should be a lesson for Tennesseans to keep that f-ing dumb a$$ Bredesen out of office.

Bredesen will be a very competent candidate for Democrats in 2018. He was a very popular mayor and governor and had a good run in the private sector.

Yep, you can pretty much thank him for the boom Nashville is experiencing now. He got it going (at the expense of other regions in some cases, but...)

(12-13-2017 10:58 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  Did Moore concede last night? I didn't watch any of it.

Nope, he hasn't conceded yet.. he's considering paying for the recount (as it doesn't fall in the automatic recount numbers in Alabama)

(12-13-2017 11:22 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 10:58 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  Did Moore concede last night? I didn't watch any of it.

Nope, he hasn't conceded yet.. he's considering paying for the recount (as it doesn't fall in the automatic recount numbers in Alabama)

(12-13-2017 10:54 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 10:27 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Democrat Rules to Winning An Election:
1. Accuse the other nominee of being a child abuser without a single shed of evidence.
2. Repeat Step 1.

He had been fired from his judgeships not once, but twice before, and had completely off-the-wall opinions on minorities (who came out in droves to vote against him) way before any accusers came forward.
Moore was (well, is) an idiot, period, and the voters gave him a resounding rejection. Common sense wins the day.

Moore was a wacko, proved many times over before this. If becoming a three-time loser expels him from politics forever, that is a good thing. And I think the republican brand is better as a whole not to be tarnished by this. I will be a positive for them in 2018 and 2020, which is probably why support from the republican establishment was lukewarm to nonexistent. One seat for three years could have cost them five for six years in 2018.

The negative I see is that we have seen the political power of unproved allegations. As an attorney, I am trained not to convict until the evidence comes in, I find that very troubling. I don't have a solution. I suppose we could make it a criminal offense to make such allegations falsely, but the could have the impact of chilling legitimate complaints. I really don't know how to balance the equities.

But I think it is unfortunate that this election almost certainly did turn on unproved allegations, and equally unfortunate that otherwise the winner would have been wacko Roy Moore.

So folks in Alabama, who takes Jones seat in 2020? I'm guessing there are plenty of candidates not named Roy Moore lined up for a guaranteed spot in the US Senate

(12-13-2017 11:31 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  So folks in Alabama, who takes Jones seat in 2020? I'm guessing there are plenty of candidates not named Roy Moore lined up for a guaranteed spot in the US Senate

When Jones gets to D.C. and exposes himself as the far lefty he is you'll probably be able to run a stop sign on the Republican ticket and win for the next 20 years.

It will be Mo Brooks. It should have been Mo Brooks this time around.

(12-13-2017 11:49 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It will be Mo Brooks. It should have been Mo Brooks this time around.

He has cancer. Not sure he'll want another go around by then.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12...short_home

A couple of interesting notes from the election last night

1) African American turnout exceeded that for Barack Obama's Presidential run in 2012 in Alabama. This was obviously crucial to the election. I suspect that African Americans, saw Roy Moore's history, listened to what their supporters were saying, and (in my view, correctly) saw him as the second coming of a Patterson or a Wallace and voted with urgency to protect their rights and safety. I don't think they were motivated so much by the allegations against Moore, but by Bannon, Trump, and Moore's racist behavior and dog whistles. This is applicable to other states and other minority groups. The 'scare the bejeezus out of minorities' ads in Virginia and Alabama were very effective and they didn't turn off any reachable Anglo voters. They were, from our perspective, justified by the Trumpers' behavior and statements. You'll probably see a lot of them in 2018.

2) White voters did not turn out in large numbers. Anglo turnout was about half that as it was during the Presidential election. I suspect that much of that missing turnout was from people who'd never vote for a Dem, but I suspect that some of that were people who've already walked away from the Trump train and haven't caught the Dem one yet. I suspect that the missing voters would have broken slightly for Moore, but I think that there were plenty who, if compelled to vote, would have voted for Jones.

3) The write-ins were decisive. The desire of a majority of Alabama Republican primary voters to troll with their votes, rather than elect a candidate that was acceptable to a greater percentage of the electorate was also decisive. Republicans have had a history of making that mistake repeatedly. They got away with Trump. But I'm starting to think that is starting to ebb away.

4) Educated voters, albeit in smaller numbers, have started pulling away from Trump. It takes time for someone to admit, even to themselves, that they made a mistake. Usually takes about a year. Moore did very poorly in more educated areas.

----

And not only is Alabama far less educated and far less well off than the rest of the country, it is also more Anglo than the rest of the country. Its rather hard to design a more Trump friendly environment than Alabama.

----

In Alabama, this simply provides more impetus to the 'rebuilding' of the Democratic Party. They'll not win the Governor's mansion unless Roy is the GOP nominee in 2018, but there are now a large number of identified Dems or potential Dems that probably weren't accounted for in the GOP Gerrymander. I think the Alabama Democratic Party has a window to make themselves more relevant now. Someone who defects from Trumpism isn't likely to return. Someone who just walks away is going to be harder to reel back tot he polls in the next election.

Nationally, this is a disaster for the GOP. Educated GOP voters are leaving, many of their voters are 'voting by abstension', and minority voters are voting in high numbers. Sure, few GOP candidates are as bad as Roy Moore, but few places are as conservative as Alabama.

(12-13-2017 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  A couple of interesting notes from the election last night

1) African American turnout exceeded that for Barack Obama's Presidential run in 2012 in Alabama. This was obviously crucial to the election. I suspect that African Americans, saw Roy Moore's history, listened to what their supporters were saying, and (in my view, correctly) saw him as the second coming of a Patterson or a Wallace and voted with urgency to protect their rights and safety. I don't think they were motivated so much by the allegations against Moore, but by Bannon, Trump, and Moore's racist behavior and dog whistles. This is applicable to other states and other minority groups. The 'scare the bejeezus out of minorities' ads in Virginia and Alabama were very effective and they didn't turn off any reachable Anglo voters. They were, from our perspective, justified by the Trumper's behavior and statements. You'll probably see a lot of them in 2018.

2) White voters did not turn out in large numbers. Anglo turnout was about half that as it was during the Presidential election. I suspect that much of that missing turnout was from people who'd never vote for a Dem, but I suspect that some of that were people who've already walked away from the Trump train and haven't caught the Dem one yet. I suspect that the missing voters would have broken slightly for Moore, but I think that there were plenty who, if compelled to vote, would have voted for Jones.

3) The write-ins were decisive. The desire of a majority of Alabama Republican primary voters to troll with their votes, rather than elect a candidate that was acceptable to a greater percentage of the electorate was also decisive. Republicans have had a history of making that mistake repeatedly. They got away with Trump. But I'm starting to think that is starting to ebb away.

4) Educated voters, albeit in smaller numbers, have started pulling away from Trump. It takes time for someone to admit, even to themselves, that they made a mistake. Usually takes about a year. Moore did very poorly in more educated areas.

----

In Alabama, this simply provides more impetus to the 'rebuilding' of the Democratic Party. They'll not win the Governor's mansion unless Roy is the GOP nominee in 2018, but there are now a large number of identified Dems or potential Dems that probably weren't accounted for in the GOP Gerrymander. I think the Alabama Democratic Party has a window to make themselves more relevant now. Someone who defects from Trumpism isn't likely to return. Someone who just walks away is going to be harder to reel back tot he polls in the next election.

Nationally, this is a disaster for the GOP. Educated GOP voters are leaving, many of their voters are 'voting by abstension', and minority voters are voting in high numbers. Sure, few GOP candidates are as bad as Roy Moore, but few places are as conservative as Alabama.

The best the dems could do is beat accused child molester by 1 point for half a term Lol.

Believe the rest of that fairy tale all you want

(12-13-2017 01:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  A couple of interesting notes from the election last night

1) African American turnout exceeded that for Barack Obama's Presidential run in 2012 in Alabama. This was obviously crucial to the election. I suspect that African Americans, saw Roy Moore's history, listened to what their supporters were saying, and (in my view, correctly) saw him as the second coming of a Patterson or a Wallace and voted with urgency to protect their rights and safety. I don't think they were motivated so much by the allegations against Moore, but by Bannon, Trump, and Moore's racist behavior and dog whistles. This is applicable to other states and other minority groups. The 'scare the bejeezus out of minorities' ads in Virginia and Alabama were very effective and they didn't turn off any reachable Anglo voters. They were, from our perspective, justified by the Trumper's behavior and statements. You'll probably see a lot of them in 2018.

2) White voters did not turn out in large numbers. Anglo turnout was about half that as it was during the Presidential election. I suspect that much of that missing turnout was from people who'd never vote for a Dem, but I suspect that some of that were people who've already walked away from the Trump train and haven't caught the Dem one yet. I suspect that the missing voters would have broken slightly for Moore, but I think that there were plenty who, if compelled to vote, would have voted for Jones.

3) The write-ins were decisive. The desire of a majority of Alabama Republican primary voters to troll with their votes, rather than elect a candidate that was acceptable to a greater percentage of the electorate was also decisive. Republicans have had a history of making that mistake repeatedly. They got away with Trump. But I'm starting to think that is starting to ebb away.

4) Educated voters, albeit in smaller numbers, have started pulling away from Trump. It takes time for someone to admit, even to themselves, that they made a mistake. Usually takes about a year. Moore did very poorly in more educated areas.

----

In Alabama, this simply provides more impetus to the 'rebuilding' of the Democratic Party. They'll not win the Governor's mansion unless Roy is the GOP nominee in 2018, but there are now a large number of identified Dems or potential Dems that probably weren't accounted for in the GOP Gerrymander. I think the Alabama Democratic Party has a window to make themselves more relevant now. Someone who defects from Trumpism isn't likely to return. Someone who just walks away is going to be harder to reel back tot he polls in the next election.

Nationally, this is a disaster for the GOP. Educated GOP voters are leaving, many of their voters are 'voting by abstension', and minority voters are voting in high numbers. Sure, few GOP candidates are as bad as Roy Moore, but few places are as conservative as Alabama.

The best the dems could do is beat accused child molester by 1 point for half a term Lol.

Believe the rest of that fairy tale all you want

Half the voters Alabama who voted for Trump in 2016, either sat home, voted for a write in, or voted for a Democrat. You don't get it all back at once. I'll take that out of Alabama in 2017. I'll certainly take it in Texas against Ted Cruz in 2018.

(12-13-2017 01:28 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  A couple of interesting notes from the election last night

1) African American turnout exceeded that for Barack Obama's Presidential run in 2012 in Alabama. This was obviously crucial to the election. I suspect that African Americans, saw Roy Moore's history, listened to what their supporters were saying, and (in my view, correctly) saw him as the second coming of a Patterson or a Wallace and voted with urgency to protect their rights and safety. I don't think they were motivated so much by the allegations against Moore, but by Bannon, Trump, and Moore's racist behavior and dog whistles. This is applicable to other states and other minority groups. The 'scare the bejeezus out of minorities' ads in Virginia and Alabama were very effective and they didn't turn off any reachable Anglo voters. They were, from our perspective, justified by the Trumper's behavior and statements. You'll probably see a lot of them in 2018.

2) White voters did not turn out in large numbers. Anglo turnout was about half that as it was during the Presidential election. I suspect that much of that missing turnout was from people who'd never vote for a Dem, but I suspect that some of that were people who've already walked away from the Trump train and haven't caught the Dem one yet. I suspect that the missing voters would have broken slightly for Moore, but I think that there were plenty who, if compelled to vote, would have voted for Jones.

3) The write-ins were decisive. The desire of a majority of Alabama Republican primary voters to troll with their votes, rather than elect a candidate that was acceptable to a greater percentage of the electorate was also decisive. Republicans have had a history of making that mistake repeatedly. They got away with Trump. But I'm starting to think that is starting to ebb away.

4) Educated voters, albeit in smaller numbers, have started pulling away from Trump. It takes time for someone to admit, even to themselves, that they made a mistake. Usually takes about a year. Moore did very poorly in more educated areas.

----

In Alabama, this simply provides more impetus to the 'rebuilding' of the Democratic Party. They'll not win the Governor's mansion unless Roy is the GOP nominee in 2018, but there are now a large number of identified Dems or potential Dems that probably weren't accounted for in the GOP Gerrymander. I think the Alabama Democratic Party has a window to make themselves more relevant now. Someone who defects from Trumpism isn't likely to return. Someone who just walks away is going to be harder to reel back tot he polls in the next election.

Nationally, this is a disaster for the GOP. Educated GOP voters are leaving, many of their voters are 'voting by abstension', and minority voters are voting in high numbers. Sure, few GOP candidates are as bad as Roy Moore, but few places are as conservative as Alabama.

The best the dems could do is beat accused child molester by 1 point for half a term Lol.

Believe the rest of that fairy tale all you want

Half the voters Alabama who voted for Trump in 2016, either sat home, voted for a write in, or voted for a Democrat. You don't get it all back at once. I'll take that out of Alabama in 2017. I'll certainly take it in Texas against Ted Cruz in 2018.

Yeah. Enjoy your phyrric victory. There won't be another dem elected for 50 years after this.

(12-13-2017 01:33 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:28 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  A couple of interesting notes from the election last night

1) African American turnout exceeded that for Barack Obama's Presidential run in 2012 in Alabama. This was obviously crucial to the election. I suspect that African Americans, saw Roy Moore's history, listened to what their supporters were saying, and (in my view, correctly) saw him as the second coming of a Patterson or a Wallace and voted with urgency to protect their rights and safety. I don't think they were motivated so much by the allegations against Moore, but by Bannon, Trump, and Moore's racist behavior and dog whistles. This is applicable to other states and other minority groups. The 'scare the bejeezus out of minorities' ads in Virginia and Alabama were very effective and they didn't turn off any reachable Anglo voters. They were, from our perspective, justified by the Trumper's behavior and statements. You'll probably see a lot of them in 2018.

2) White voters did not turn out in large numbers. Anglo turnout was about half that as it was during the Presidential election. I suspect that much of that missing turnout was from people who'd never vote for a Dem, but I suspect that some of that were people who've already walked away from the Trump train and haven't caught the Dem one yet. I suspect that the missing voters would have broken slightly for Moore, but I think that there were plenty who, if compelled to vote, would have voted for Jones.

3) The write-ins were decisive. The desire of a majority of Alabama Republican primary voters to troll with their votes, rather than elect a candidate that was acceptable to a greater percentage of the electorate was also decisive. Republicans have had a history of making that mistake repeatedly. They got away with Trump. But I'm starting to think that is starting to ebb away.

4) Educated voters, albeit in smaller numbers, have started pulling away from Trump. It takes time for someone to admit, even to themselves, that they made a mistake. Usually takes about a year. Moore did very poorly in more educated areas.

----

In Alabama, this simply provides more impetus to the 'rebuilding' of the Democratic Party. They'll not win the Governor's mansion unless Roy is the GOP nominee in 2018, but there are now a large number of identified Dems or potential Dems that probably weren't accounted for in the GOP Gerrymander. I think the Alabama Democratic Party has a window to make themselves more relevant now. Someone who defects from Trumpism isn't likely to return. Someone who just walks away is going to be harder to reel back tot he polls in the next election.

Nationally, this is a disaster for the GOP. Educated GOP voters are leaving, many of their voters are 'voting by abstension', and minority voters are voting in high numbers. Sure, few GOP candidates are as bad as Roy Moore, but few places are as conservative as Alabama.

The best the dems could do is beat accused child molester by 1 point for half a term Lol.

Believe the rest of that fairy tale all you want

Half the voters Alabama who voted for Trump in 2016, either sat home, voted for a write in, or voted for a Democrat. You don't get it all back at once. I'll take that out of Alabama in 2017. I'll certainly take it in Texas against Ted Cruz in 2018.

Yeah. Enjoy your phyrric victory. There won't be another dem elected for 50 years after this.

LOL. I'm looking forward to seeing Walter Maddox be elected Alabama Governor over Republican Governor nominee Roy Moore next year....LOL.

I really don't think the GOP is stupid enough to nominate him for Governor in 2018.

I think its more likely that Jones manages to cobble together another inside straight electoral victory running in 2020 against a GOPer on the same ticket with Donald Trump.

---

And a victory is only 'pyrrhic' if it involves losing something bigger in return for that win. There was nothing pyrrhic about this win for the Dems. It came to us without any cost whatsoever. Unless you'd like to argue that Al Franken being replaced with another Democrat was a big loss for us.

(12-13-2017 01:45 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:33 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:28 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 01:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  A couple of interesting notes from the election last night

1) African American turnout exceeded that for Barack Obama's Presidential run in 2012 in Alabama. This was obviously crucial to the election. I suspect that African Americans, saw Roy Moore's history, listened to what their supporters were saying, and (in my view, correctly) saw him as the second coming of a Patterson or a Wallace and voted with urgency to protect their rights and safety. I don't think they were motivated so much by the allegations against Moore, but by Bannon, Trump, and Moore's racist behavior and dog whistles. This is applicable to other states and other minority groups. The 'scare the bejeezus out of minorities' ads in Virginia and Alabama were very effective and they didn't turn off any reachable Anglo voters. They were, from our perspective, justified by the Trumper's behavior and statements. You'll probably see a lot of them in 2018.

2) White voters did not turn out in large numbers. Anglo turnout was about half that as it was during the Presidential election. I suspect that much of that missing turnout was from people who'd never vote for a Dem, but I suspect that some of that were people who've already walked away from the Trump train and haven't caught the Dem one yet. I suspect that the missing voters would have broken slightly for Moore, but I think that there were plenty who, if compelled to vote, would have voted for Jones.

3) The write-ins were decisive. The desire of a majority of Alabama Republican primary voters to troll with their votes, rather than elect a candidate that was acceptable to a greater percentage of the electorate was also decisive. Republicans have had a history of making that mistake repeatedly. They got away with Trump. But I'm starting to think that is starting to ebb away.

4) Educated voters, albeit in smaller numbers, have started pulling away from Trump. It takes time for someone to admit, even to themselves, that they made a mistake. Usually takes about a year. Moore did very poorly in more educated areas.

----

In Alabama, this simply provides more impetus to the 'rebuilding' of the Democratic Party. They'll not win the Governor's mansion unless Roy is the GOP nominee in 2018, but there are now a large number of identified Dems or potential Dems that probably weren't accounted for in the GOP Gerrymander. I think the Alabama Democratic Party has a window to make themselves more relevant now. Someone who defects from Trumpism isn't likely to return. Someone who just walks away is going to be harder to reel back tot he polls in the next election.

Nationally, this is a disaster for the GOP. Educated GOP voters are leaving, many of their voters are 'voting by abstension', and minority voters are voting in high numbers. Sure, few GOP candidates are as bad as Roy Moore, but few places are as conservative as Alabama.

The best the dems could do is beat accused child molester by 1 point for half a term Lol.

Believe the rest of that fairy tale all you want

Half the voters Alabama who voted for Trump in 2016, either sat home, voted for a write in, or voted for a Democrat. You don't get it all back at once. I'll take that out of Alabama in 2017. I'll certainly take it in Texas against Ted Cruz in 2018.

Yeah. Enjoy your phyrric victory. There won't be another dem elected for 50 years after this.

LOL. I'm looking forward to seeing Walter Maddox be elected Alabama Governor over Republican Governor nominee Roy Moore next year....LOL.

I really don't think the GOP is stupid enough to nominate him for Governor in 2018.

I think its more likely that Jones manages to cobble together another inside straight electoral victory running in 2020 against a GOPer on the same ticket with Donald Trump.

---

And a victory is only 'pyrrhic' if it involves losing something bigger in return for that win. There was nothing pyrrhic about this win for the Dems. It came to us without any cost whatsoever.

Wrong. Dems wont win again in Alabama for 50 years. You beat an accused child molester by one point for a temporary seat. Make no mistake, this was not a vote for Jones. It was a vote against Moore based on allegations. You know it and every one knows it.

And you still don't control the Senate. Lol

The fact that a democrat won in a state as red as Alabama is significant.