(12-04-2017 03:25 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 03:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 01:12 PM)miko33 Wrote:  https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-leagu...i-capital/

There is no real benefit to doing this aside from stirring up more turmoil in the ME. Seems like an unnecessary waste of energy when the primary focus should be on the U.S. economy and minimizing the chances of successful terror attacks on U.S. soil.

Why should every other country get to choose their capitol?

The current policy discourages peace by kow-towing to those who want to destroy Israel.

No legitimate group disputes that West Jerusalem is part of Israel.

The ME is still a powder keg. We screwed the pooch by removing Saddam and thus creating another unstable region to go along with Iran and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Truth be told, the parts of the ME outside of the Arabian peninsula should be redrawn. You have multiple competing factions in Iraq. Iran probably has similar issues and the Palestinians don't even seem to be an actual race but a collection of peoples that migrated to that part of the world from other countries.

At this time, it doesn't make sense to throw the U.S. weight around in that part of the region any more than we already have.

I get all the reasoning behind why they should have Jerusalem as their capitol. However, I fail to see how causing more turmoil in the ME benefits us at all. Besides, the pressure is from the congress creating a bill to move the embassy back in 1995.

The Sunnis have Iran has their top enemy, not Israel. They still talk tough, like it's an issue but the Saudi's need Israel on their side.

The Middle East is changing. It's so much Shiite vs Sunni and Israel now, rather than Muslim vs Jew. The Saudi's are applying much pressure on Qatar to change their Iran stance.

In the last days, the sons of Abraham ( Ishmael and Jacob) will make amends, and Iran and Turkey will be Israel's main enemies.

It's purely to piss people off.

I don't understand why we, the US, need to throw our moral support behind every action of Israel. It's just stupid.

(12-05-2017 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's purely to piss people off.

I don't understand why we, the US, need to throw our moral support behind every action of Israel. It's just stupid.

Me neither. This is a pointless move and will likely lead to the deaths of innocent people, for what strategic gain exactly? Now being a complete cynic my thought process is Trump knows he's going to really piss off muslims, knows that some of their extremist idiots will use this as an excuse to attack, and he'll get political capital out of that.

I think its a little absurd to say this is solely about pissing people off. I have no doubt he is fully aware it will anger some Muslims, but its also the right thing to do.

Palestinians have no legitimate claim to that city. If you have to wait for the day it won't anger a single Muslim, then the day will never come.

Its time to stop legitimizing this fake dispute.

It's the capital of Israel and the symbolic homeland of the Jewish people. I may be biased as a Jew, but it's the right move imo.

That being said, Israel is not the 51st state as many have pointed out, and we should not treat it as such. They're a modern, strong nation especially considering their geographic disadvantages. We should continue to maintain strong economy and strategic ties, but America should not baby them nor should they accept a position which hands over the Knesset to DC.

(12-04-2017 03:05 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  It's Israel's decision where their capital is, not ours. I couldn't see us being real happy if the world told us our Capital had to be NYC.

Two completely different situations since the land claims in the U.S. have been thoroughly decided now for a very long time. The Israeli/Palestinian issue still remains with both claiming all of or parts of the city.

That was settled on the battlefield and Israel won.

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(12-05-2017 08:45 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  It's the capital of Israel and the symbolic homeland of the Jewish people. I may be biased as a Jew, but it's the right move imo.

That being said, Israel is not the 51st state as many have pointed out, and we should not treat it as such. They're a modern, strong nation especially considering their geographic disadvantages. We should continue to maintain strong economy and strategic ties, but America should not baby them nor should they accept a position which hands over the Knesset to DC.

Coming off of 8 years of the Obama administration sticking it to Netanyahu at every turn and openly trying to influence Israeli elections against him, I'd say its going to be hard to look like we are babying anyone for a while.

I don't think showing a little respect by recognizing their capitol and moving the embassy there is anything but that. Letting them stand on their own and take care of themselves would also be a show of respect. Actually the opposite of "babying". Maybe they'll nuke Iran and we all win.

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(12-04-2017 03:06 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  It's Israel's decision where their capital is, not ours. I couldn't see us being real happy if the world told us our Capital had to be NYC.

agreed

It really is that simple. Well, as simple as something can be in the Middle East.

(12-05-2017 02:02 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its a matter of when, not if.

(12-05-2017 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's purely to piss people off.

I disagree strongly with both of these assertions. First, it is very much a matter of if... Trump does not tend to follow through on broad pronouncements except as a negotiating tactic. The pronouncement is definitely intended to piss people off, but I think there is a reason for doing so. Trumps actions in general do not make sense unless you consider them in the context of being a "forcing action". I don't think these have brought the intended result in general, but there has been very little change in negotiating position of either the Israelis or Palestinians in the past 14-17 years. The notion that any specific act by the US will be harmful to negotiations is moot... I think the motivation behind this is that any disruption to the status quo is going to provide impetus for the two parties to press Washington for negotiations. The Obama approach of trying to drag two unwilling negotiating parties to the table was a miserable failure that was clearly doomed before it started.

I am not optimistic that the Trump administration will make any progress. But, progress is impossible when neither party wants to be at the table to begin with.

(12-05-2017 06:54 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's purely to piss people off.

I don't understand why we, the US, need to throw our moral support behind every action of Israel. It's just stupid.

Me neither. This is a pointless move and will likely lead to the deaths of innocent people, for what strategic gain exactly? Now being a complete cynic my thought process is Trump knows he's going to really piss off muslims, knows that some of their extremist idiots will use this as an excuse to attack, and he'll get political capital out of that.

Maybe we could trade Jerusalem to the Mooslims for Constantinople.

The point I made the other day. Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capitol promotes peace by forcing the Palestinians to face reality.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/12/06/reco...re-likely/

(12-04-2017 03:05 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  It's Israel's decision where their capital is, not ours. I couldn't see us being real happy if the world told us our Capital had to be NYC.

Two completely different situations since the land claims in the U.S. have been thoroughly decided now for a very long time. The Israeli/Palestinian issue still remains with both claiming all of or parts of the city.

The only reason this issue hasn't been decided (in Israel's favor) is because of actions by people like us preventing Israel from eradicating the Palestinians... at least the ones in Jerusalem. So if we want to keep them from doing so (and likely riling up the Arabs, who otherwise don't give a damn about Palestine) then this is the price they demand.

If the Indians (Native Americans) claimed DC as their ancestral home and challenged us, I am convinced that there would be an outcry by many to move our capital.

They've been fighting over this city for centuries.... and at this point, Israel has won... mostly because 'we' decided they did after WW2

So what if the Muslim countries get Ps'ed off. It's not like they care what WE think. They'll go against us at every turn. As far as trying to smooth things over with them is like Trump trying to appease the Libturds by being "nice" to them. They don't care to be friends. Israel is to the Muslims what Trump is to the Libturds.

(12-04-2017 02:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 01:23 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Dunno except it’s the capital for anyone who doesn’t want to hurt someone’s feelings. And our strongest ally in the region wants us to do it since it’s their sovereign territory. Past 3 presidents have ignored The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995.

They had an out to delay it every 6 months due to security concerns. There is always security concerns with the move. Until the situation gets sorted, I don't see how this move makes sense. IMHO, it likely never gets sorted. Since Israel has plenty of access to Jerusalem already, I say keep the status quo. Who knows what happens in the near future if the world continues to change with oil fracking providing plenty of oil to the markets and the surge in green energy usage.

It has gotten a waiver every 6 months since 1995 to avoid a federal act passed by Congress mandating it be moved to Jerusalem. At some point, it’s just time.

It’s the right move.

It’s actually been policy of United States for years since 1995, but Clinton, Bush and Obama never followed through on it.

And the Senate voted in favor of it. But now that Trump is actually fulfilling his promise, the left is attacking it.

If Palestinians threaten violence as a result and they have, that’s on them.

(12-06-2017 06:37 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I don't think showing a little respect by recognizing their capitol and moving the embassy there is anything but that. Letting them stand on their own and take care of themselves would also be a show of respect. Actually the opposite of "babying". Maybe they'll nuke Iran and we all win.

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XACLY! and they definitely can handle a situation when required with a little help from their friends.....

this is arguably the next best move since DJT's Gorsuch appt.....it's a foreign policy coup of enormous proportions in scope....

it's scary how much damage he has undone from the pacifist ZERO traitor in the foreign arena in a year........

told ya guys ol' boy would hire the right ones and listen......

it's amazing what so many whiffed and why......

it's why I hate politics.......

#myturnbiatches

Millions for defense, not one cent for tribute.

history repeats and repeats

enough ass kissing. good job Trump.

(12-06-2017 10:42 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:02 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its a matter of when, not if.

(12-05-2017 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's purely to piss people off.

I disagree strongly with both of these assertions. First, it is very much a matter of if... Trump does not tend to follow through on broad pronouncements except as a negotiating tactic. The pronouncement is definitely intended to piss people off, but I think there is a reason for doing so. Trumps actions in general do not make sense unless you consider them in the context of being a "forcing action". I don't think these have brought the intended result in general, but there has been very little change in negotiating position of either the Israelis or Palestinians in the past 14-17 years. The notion that any specific act by the US will be harmful to negotiations is moot... I think the motivation behind this is that any disruption to the status quo is going to provide impetus for the two parties to press Washington for negotiations. The Obama approach of trying to drag two unwilling negotiating parties to the table was a miserable failure that was clearly doomed before it started.

I am not optimistic that the Trump administration will make any progress. But, progress is impossible when neither party wants to be at the table to begin with.

This post didn't age well at all.

By 2 PM the same day Trump had held a press conf and made the whole thing official.

(12-06-2017 06:30 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 10:42 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:02 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its a matter of when, not if.

(12-05-2017 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's purely to piss people off.

I disagree strongly with both of these assertions. First, it is very much a matter of if... Trump does not tend to follow through on broad pronouncements except as a negotiating tactic. The pronouncement is definitely intended to piss people off, but I think there is a reason for doing so. Trumps actions in general do not make sense unless you consider them in the context of being a "forcing action". I don't think these have brought the intended result in general, but there has been very little change in negotiating position of either the Israelis or Palestinians in the past 14-17 years. The notion that any specific act by the US will be harmful to negotiations is moot... I think the motivation behind this is that any disruption to the status quo is going to provide impetus for the two parties to press Washington for negotiations. The Obama approach of trying to drag two unwilling negotiating parties to the table was a miserable failure that was clearly doomed before it started.

I am not optimistic that the Trump administration will make any progress. But, progress is impossible when neither party wants to be at the table to begin with.

This post didn't age well at all.

By 2 PM the same day Trump had held a press conf and made the whole thing official.

isn't if ironic how those that defend the other side continue to wait for him to do something he didn't say he would????

both sides are getting their arse handed to them as they continue to focus on mere rhetoric.....

all the meanwhile, DJT continues to chart the course like the true Pocahontas with Lewis and Clark in tow......

.....never thought I'd see this happen in my lifetime....

DJT is the star of David in 21st century terms.....

#anotherwin