38 -45 % already pay little to No Taxes. What else is News ?

(12-01-2017 05:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The Trump tax plan isn't sweeping enough to render your line of thought accurate.

At its core, Trump's tax plan really doesn't amount to much.

Let me start by saying my comment wasn't intended to be an indictment of your statement/opinion, but an indictment of the generalizations when it comes to such detailed but important issues.

You didn't say all the Trump tax plan was.....

You said ALL TAX REFORM....

And my response (after already saying, I'm not commenting on Trump's plan) was that your statement wasn't entirely true.

My statement is true.

Your opinion on the Trump plan is noted, and may well be correct... but I know a whole lot about the issue and while I feel qualified to engage in debate on the subject, i don't feel qualified to argue that MY opinion would be in any way undeniable. Stephen Roach was a friend of mine when I worked in that industry, and he wouldn't have made such a sweeping comment about Trump's tax plan unless he was being paid to take a definitive position, and when he did, he's finish it with... of course the opposite could be true as well. These are educated guesses, and some of us (maybe you) are more educated than others. The average voter is very poorly educated on these issues.

The most important parts are that the OP specifically says :
a leaked analysis from Congress’ nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation showed that 38 percent of Americans would not get a significant tax cut in 2019 under the Senate tax bill.

Well no ****.

Given how many Americans don't pay income taxes, this is among the most misleading OR ignorant statements anyone could make about ANY tax plans.

Let me say it differently. Remember the $600 credits? To someone making 20k/yr, that's real money. To someone with a family making 50k, I wouldn't call that 'a significant tax cut'... and that guy doesn't pay much in Taxes, to you can't cut the taxes he doesn't pay... I'd guess that anyone making between about 40k and 80k (which is probably 38% of Americans) would fall into that category. THOSE people will most likely benefit more from wage increases and advancement opportunities more than tax cuts.... which is the GOAL of tax cuts for businesses and often, but not always accomplishes that goal.

YOUR statement is often true, but doesn't have to be... and may or may not be true here. The reason it is often true is because people will fall for lines like '38% of people don't get a significant cut' and 'all taxes are is burden redistribution' and think they are informed.

There are ways to do it that lift all boats... but we need to be smarter/more educated than will fit on a bumper sticker.

Again, not chastising you for your generalization, just noting that just because the majority of them are that way doesn't mean we shouldn't educate ourselves on the ones that actually have the chance to do good, being aware that opinions will always vary, even among very informed and intelligent people.

'you have to pass it to know what's in it', lol

We're closer in thinking than you may think.

I for one was hoping for a sweeping tax reform, not lipstick on a pig.

(12-04-2017 10:34 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The Trump tax plan isn't sweeping enough to render your line of thought accurate.

At its core, Trump's tax plan really doesn't amount to much.

Let me start by saying my comment wasn't intended to be an indictment of your statement/opinion, but an indictment of the generalizations when it comes to such detailed but important issues.

You didn't say all the Trump tax plan was.....

You said ALL TAX REFORM....

And my response (after already saying, I'm not commenting on Trump's plan) was that your statement wasn't entirely true.

My statement is true.

Your opinion on the Trump plan is noted, and may well be correct... but I know a whole lot about the issue and while I feel qualified to engage in debate on the subject, i don't feel qualified to argue that MY opinion would be in any way undeniable. Stephen Roach was a friend of mine when I worked in that industry, and he wouldn't have made such a sweeping comment about Trump's tax plan unless he was being paid to take a definitive position, and when he did, he's finish it with... of course the opposite could be true as well. These are educated guesses, and some of us (maybe you) are more educated than others. The average voter is very poorly educated on these issues.

The most important parts are that the OP specifically says :
a leaked analysis from Congress’ nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation showed that 38 percent of Americans would not get a significant tax cut in 2019 under the Senate tax bill.

Well no ****.

Given how many Americans don't pay income taxes, this is among the most misleading OR ignorant statements anyone could make about ANY tax plans.

Let me say it differently. Remember the $600 credits? To someone making 20k/yr, that's real money. To someone with a family making 50k, I wouldn't call that 'a significant tax cut'... and that guy doesn't pay much in Taxes, to you can't cut the taxes he doesn't pay... I'd guess that anyone making between about 40k and 80k (which is probably 38% of Americans) would fall into that category. THOSE people will most likely benefit more from wage increases and advancement opportunities more than tax cuts.... which is the GOAL of tax cuts for businesses and often, but not always accomplishes that goal.

YOUR statement is often true, but doesn't have to be... and may or may not be true here. The reason it is often true is because people will fall for lines like '38% of people don't get a significant cut' and 'all taxes are is burden redistribution' and think they are informed.

There are ways to do it that lift all boats... but we need to be smarter/more educated than will fit on a bumper sticker.

Again, not chastising you for your generalization, just noting that just because the majority of them are that way doesn't mean we shouldn't educate ourselves on the ones that actually have the chance to do good, being aware that opinions will always vary, even among very informed and intelligent people.

'you have to pass it to know what's in it', lol

We're closer in thinking than you may think.

I for one was hoping for a sweeping tax reform, not lipstick on a pig.

It's probably easier to do in smaller incremental steps........think slowly boiling a frog.

Sweeping, massive changes rarely get done as someone's ox always gets gored and the crying and teeth gnashing invite politicians from the opposing camp to score political points too easily.....

.....and as we all know, a politicians MOST important priority isn't the work of the people - it's getting re-elected.

I'll take something getting done over (the usual) nothing getting done........

(12-04-2017 11:23 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 10:34 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The Trump tax plan isn't sweeping enough to render your line of thought accurate.

At its core, Trump's tax plan really doesn't amount to much.

Let me start by saying my comment wasn't intended to be an indictment of your statement/opinion, but an indictment of the generalizations when it comes to such detailed but important issues.

You didn't say all the Trump tax plan was.....

You said ALL TAX REFORM....

And my response (after already saying, I'm not commenting on Trump's plan) was that your statement wasn't entirely true.

My statement is true.

Your opinion on the Trump plan is noted, and may well be correct... but I know a whole lot about the issue and while I feel qualified to engage in debate on the subject, i don't feel qualified to argue that MY opinion would be in any way undeniable. Stephen Roach was a friend of mine when I worked in that industry, and he wouldn't have made such a sweeping comment about Trump's tax plan unless he was being paid to take a definitive position, and when he did, he's finish it with... of course the opposite could be true as well. These are educated guesses, and some of us (maybe you) are more educated than others. The average voter is very poorly educated on these issues.

The most important parts are that the OP specifically says :
a leaked analysis from Congress’ nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation showed that 38 percent of Americans would not get a significant tax cut in 2019 under the Senate tax bill.

Well no ****.

Given how many Americans don't pay income taxes, this is among the most misleading OR ignorant statements anyone could make about ANY tax plans.

Let me say it differently. Remember the $600 credits? To someone making 20k/yr, that's real money. To someone with a family making 50k, I wouldn't call that 'a significant tax cut'... and that guy doesn't pay much in Taxes, to you can't cut the taxes he doesn't pay... I'd guess that anyone making between about 40k and 80k (which is probably 38% of Americans) would fall into that category. THOSE people will most likely benefit more from wage increases and advancement opportunities more than tax cuts.... which is the GOAL of tax cuts for businesses and often, but not always accomplishes that goal.

YOUR statement is often true, but doesn't have to be... and may or may not be true here. The reason it is often true is because people will fall for lines like '38% of people don't get a significant cut' and 'all taxes are is burden redistribution' and think they are informed.

There are ways to do it that lift all boats... but we need to be smarter/more educated than will fit on a bumper sticker.

Again, not chastising you for your generalization, just noting that just because the majority of them are that way doesn't mean we shouldn't educate ourselves on the ones that actually have the chance to do good, being aware that opinions will always vary, even among very informed and intelligent people.

'you have to pass it to know what's in it', lol

We're closer in thinking than you may think.

I for one was hoping for a sweeping tax reform, not lipstick on a pig.

It's probably easier to do in smaller incremental steps........think slowly boiling a frog.

Sweeping, massive changes rarely get done as someone's ox always gets gored and the crying and teeth gnashing invite politicians from the opposing camp to score political points too easily.....

.....and as we all know, a politicians MOST important priority isn't the work of the people - it's getting re-elected.

I'll take something getting done over (the usual) nothing getting done........

It's like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time lest you choke to death trying to swallow it hole.

(12-04-2017 11:28 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 11:23 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 10:34 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The Trump tax plan isn't sweeping enough to render your line of thought accurate.

At its core, Trump's tax plan really doesn't amount to much.

Let me start by saying my comment wasn't intended to be an indictment of your statement/opinion, but an indictment of the generalizations when it comes to such detailed but important issues.

You didn't say all the Trump tax plan was.....

You said ALL TAX REFORM....

And my response (after already saying, I'm not commenting on Trump's plan) was that your statement wasn't entirely true.

My statement is true.

Your opinion on the Trump plan is noted, and may well be correct... but I know a whole lot about the issue and while I feel qualified to engage in debate on the subject, i don't feel qualified to argue that MY opinion would be in any way undeniable. Stephen Roach was a friend of mine when I worked in that industry, and he wouldn't have made such a sweeping comment about Trump's tax plan unless he was being paid to take a definitive position, and when he did, he's finish it with... of course the opposite could be true as well. These are educated guesses, and some of us (maybe you) are more educated than others. The average voter is very poorly educated on these issues.

The most important parts are that the OP specifically says :
a leaked analysis from Congress’ nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation showed that 38 percent of Americans would not get a significant tax cut in 2019 under the Senate tax bill.

Well no ****.

Given how many Americans don't pay income taxes, this is among the most misleading OR ignorant statements anyone could make about ANY tax plans.

Let me say it differently. Remember the $600 credits? To someone making 20k/yr, that's real money. To someone with a family making 50k, I wouldn't call that 'a significant tax cut'... and that guy doesn't pay much in Taxes, to you can't cut the taxes he doesn't pay... I'd guess that anyone making between about 40k and 80k (which is probably 38% of Americans) would fall into that category. THOSE people will most likely benefit more from wage increases and advancement opportunities more than tax cuts.... which is the GOAL of tax cuts for businesses and often, but not always accomplishes that goal.

YOUR statement is often true, but doesn't have to be... and may or may not be true here. The reason it is often true is because people will fall for lines like '38% of people don't get a significant cut' and 'all taxes are is burden redistribution' and think they are informed.

There are ways to do it that lift all boats... but we need to be smarter/more educated than will fit on a bumper sticker.

Again, not chastising you for your generalization, just noting that just because the majority of them are that way doesn't mean we shouldn't educate ourselves on the ones that actually have the chance to do good, being aware that opinions will always vary, even among very informed and intelligent people.

'you have to pass it to know what's in it', lol

We're closer in thinking than you may think.

I for one was hoping for a sweeping tax reform, not lipstick on a pig.

It's probably easier to do in smaller incremental steps........think slowly boiling a frog.

Sweeping, massive changes rarely get done as someone's ox always gets gored and the crying and teeth gnashing invite politicians from the opposing camp to score political points too easily.....

.....and as we all know, a politicians MOST important priority isn't the work of the people - it's getting re-elected.

I'll take something getting done over (the usual) nothing getting done........

It's like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time lest you choke to death trying to swallow it hole.

Normally, those in Congress are always chasing the grand "comprehensive" bill be it immigration, taxes, whatever. I think they always go this route because it's easier to hide pork in a "comprehensive" bill than it is picking of fixes one at a time......

(12-04-2017 03:53 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 11:28 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 11:23 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 10:34 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 05:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Let me start by saying my comment wasn't intended to be an indictment of your statement/opinion, but an indictment of the generalizations when it comes to such detailed but important issues.

You didn't say all the Trump tax plan was.....

You said ALL TAX REFORM....

And my response (after already saying, I'm not commenting on Trump's plan) was that your statement wasn't entirely true.

My statement is true.

Your opinion on the Trump plan is noted, and may well be correct... but I know a whole lot about the issue and while I feel qualified to engage in debate on the subject, i don't feel qualified to argue that MY opinion would be in any way undeniable. Stephen Roach was a friend of mine when I worked in that industry, and he wouldn't have made such a sweeping comment about Trump's tax plan unless he was being paid to take a definitive position, and when he did, he's finish it with... of course the opposite could be true as well. These are educated guesses, and some of us (maybe you) are more educated than others. The average voter is very poorly educated on these issues.

The most important parts are that the OP specifically says :
a leaked analysis from Congress’ nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation showed that 38 percent of Americans would not get a significant tax cut in 2019 under the Senate tax bill.

Well no ****.

Given how many Americans don't pay income taxes, this is among the most misleading OR ignorant statements anyone could make about ANY tax plans.

Let me say it differently. Remember the $600 credits? To someone making 20k/yr, that's real money. To someone with a family making 50k, I wouldn't call that 'a significant tax cut'... and that guy doesn't pay much in Taxes, to you can't cut the taxes he doesn't pay... I'd guess that anyone making between about 40k and 80k (which is probably 38% of Americans) would fall into that category. THOSE people will most likely benefit more from wage increases and advancement opportunities more than tax cuts.... which is the GOAL of tax cuts for businesses and often, but not always accomplishes that goal.

YOUR statement is often true, but doesn't have to be... and may or may not be true here. The reason it is often true is because people will fall for lines like '38% of people don't get a significant cut' and 'all taxes are is burden redistribution' and think they are informed.

There are ways to do it that lift all boats... but we need to be smarter/more educated than will fit on a bumper sticker.

Again, not chastising you for your generalization, just noting that just because the majority of them are that way doesn't mean we shouldn't educate ourselves on the ones that actually have the chance to do good, being aware that opinions will always vary, even among very informed and intelligent people.

'you have to pass it to know what's in it', lol

We're closer in thinking than you may think.

I for one was hoping for a sweeping tax reform, not lipstick on a pig.

It's probably easier to do in smaller incremental steps........think slowly boiling a frog.

Sweeping, massive changes rarely get done as someone's ox always gets gored and the crying and teeth gnashing invite politicians from the opposing camp to score political points too easily.....

.....and as we all know, a politicians MOST important priority isn't the work of the people - it's getting re-elected.

I'll take something getting done over (the usual) nothing getting done........

It's like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time lest you choke to death trying to swallow it hole.

Normally, those in Congress are always chasing the grand "comprehensive" bill be it immigration, taxes, whatever. I think they always go this route because it's easier to hide pork in a "comprehensive" bill than it is picking of fixes one at a time......

One of the reasons.

The other is they are too stupid to realize that you rarely win wars in one battle.

(12-04-2017 10:34 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We're closer in thinking than you may think.

I for one was hoping for a sweeping tax reform, not lipstick on a pig.

I am sure we are, which is why I tried to be clear about the minutia I was correcting, not the overall theme.

The problem is that your comment made the way you made it, encourages 'bumper sticker' people who don't know much.

I'd love what you want as well, but you can't do that without a mandate... and even within the Republican party, there is a lot of resistance to making major changes.

(12-04-2017 11:23 AM)Crebman Wrote:  It's probably easier to do in smaller incremental steps........think slowly boiling a frog.

Sweeping, massive changes rarely get done as someone's ox always gets gored and the crying and teeth gnashing invite politicians from the opposing camp to score political points too easily.....

.....and as we all know, a politicians MOST important priority isn't the work of the people - it's getting re-elected.

I'll take something getting done over (the usual) nothing getting done........

Sweeping reform is especially vulnerable to criticism and paralysis by analysis because there are so many variables that can't possibly be predicted with any accuracy, no matter how intelligent or unbiased you are.

(12-04-2017 10:12 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  38 -45 % already pay little to No Taxes. What else is News ?

Yes, but somehow in the minds of these liberal fools, cutting the taxes of everyone else hurts these freeloaders.