The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I hear the usual skeptics use the term “Wassink was a manageable QB.”

Wassink played 8 games in his career with 4 learn on the job WRs and a TE who was considered a blocking back for his first 3 years. Yet in those 8 games he was ranked second behind Woodside in passing efficiency.

(11-27-2017 01:30 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I hear the usual skeptics use the term “Wassink was a manageable QB.”

Wassink played 8 games in his career with 4 learn on the job WRs and a TE who was considered a blocking back for his first 3 years. Yet in those 8 games he was ranked second behind Woodside in passing efficiency.

Thought he was developing nicely. I think there is a huge gap between him and Goddard.

And since when did "game manager" become a bad thing. Give me a "game manager" who completes almost 65% of his passes and has a 3 to 1 TD to int ratio any day over a "gunslinger" who completes 45% of his passes, has a 1:1 TD to int ratio and just randomly fumbles perfectly good snaps.

Zach Terrell Freshman year - 9 games, 133 of 251, 53% completion percentage, 1602 yards, 8 total TDs and 8 INT.

Jon Wassink Freshman year - 8 games, 124 of 193, 64.2% completion percentage, 1391 yards, 17 total TDs and 4 INT.

Reece Goddard Freshman year - Just over 4 games, 44 of 96, 45.8%, 542 yards, 5 total TDs and 3 INT.

I like Wassink and I am optimistic about our ability to win with him.

Terrell was a Redshirt frosh. Jon was a Redshirt soph and Goddard was a true frosh...

(11-27-2017 01:30 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I hear the usual skeptics use the term “Wassink was a manageable QB.”

Wassink played 8 games in his career with 4 learn on the job WRs and a TE who was considered a blocking back for his first 3 years. Yet in those 8 games he was ranked second behind Woodside in passing efficiency.

Those are good numbers, imagine them without the drops, especially on the deep balls. Wassink is the real deal folks, and the WRs are talented, they just need to either gel together or be put in better situations. If that happens, we've got a dynamic offense again, and we'll win a lot of games. But "ifs" are just "ifs" until they happen!

Wassink looks good to my eyes. He learned fast and was leading the Offense when he went down. I think he has great potential. Too early to say on Goddard, he didn't get the same time to develop.

I always recall when Al Molde started Brad Tayles as a true frosh. Said he had 'all the tools' and he probably did. He also threw 6 INT's against Central in our 1989 contest. It happens with young guys when they feel the pressure. He stuck with the program and became a solid if not great QB for Western

Wassink's got the starting job unless he really falls flat in the spring game and practices. I'll be surprised if anyone else is under center when we kick off against 'Cuse.

The #2 spot should be wide open for competition, or at least should be.

(11-27-2017 10:45 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Wassink's got the starting job unless he really falls flat in the spring game and practices. I'll be surprised if anyone else is under center when we kick off against 'Cuse.

The #2 spot should be wide open for competition, or at least should be.

I never understand the logic of anointing someone as starting QB, unless that person has been so outstanding the year before that you anticipate greatness from him consistently in the future. Wassink certainly wasn't spectacular. And his experience is about 1/2 a season. Goddard played poorly, but there are other QB's on our roster who may be incredible upgrades to Wassink, including Riddle, and why wouldn't you leave the competition open? It motivates all of the players to work as hard as they can in the off season, and right up until the first game.

I would like to see what the other QBs have. I hate the "entitlement system".

(11-28-2017 08:11 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 10:45 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Wassink's got the starting job unless he really falls flat in the spring game and practices. I'll be surprised if anyone else is under center when we kick off against 'Cuse.

The #2 spot should be wide open for competition, or at least should be.

I never understand the logic of anointing someone as starting QB, unless that person has been so outstanding the year before that you anticipate greatness from him consistently in the future. Wassink certainly wasn't spectacular. And his experience is about 1/2 a season. Goddard played poorly, but there are other QB's on our roster who may be incredible upgrades to Wassink, including Riddle, and why wouldn't you leave the competition open? It motivates all of the players to work as hard as they can in the off season, and right up until the first game.

I would like to see what the other QBs have. I hate the "entitlement system".

So Lester can't figure it out? Have you ever attended a practice session? You can sit for 30 mins of QB drills and see Wassink was above the others. Everyone gets hyped up on star ratings and online BS about these kids thinking they can just jump into D1 and produce. 2017 was probably the first year since 1989 WMU had a real QB issue as the only QB with snaps leaving two months before the season started. Goddard would have redshirted under normal circumstances. Goddard lost three of his RBs, Ricci, Watson go down at WR. This changes the whole practice and play calling dynamic. If Toledo loses Woodside and three RB's or any MAC team for that matter they are in the same "boat" as WMU this season. The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Quote:The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Why can't this place handle (appropriate) criticism?

We looked very bad for 3 quarters against a terrible Idaho team (who's now 3-8) early in the year prior to injuries. Granted, we won the game. But it still didn't look pretty. Same goes for Buffalo (4th place in East) and EMU (5th place in West). Lost to the tallest midget in the East (Akron) and made a bunch of excuses that frankly both teams could've made when we were mostly healthy. Should've also beaten CMU at home despite Wassink going down.

I can live with the outcomes against NIU and Toledo because A) I didn't expect to win those games anyways before the season started, and B) By that time, we were legitimately decimated with injuries.

You guys always whine and cry about any minuscule level of criticism, but you’re the first to actually “throw arrows” as you say at any opposing viewpoint.

(11-28-2017 09:33 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

Quote:The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Why can't this place handle (appropriate) criticism?

We looked very bad for 3 quarters against a terrible Idaho team (who's now 3-8) early in the year prior to injuries. Granted, we won the game. But it still didn't look pretty. Same goes for Buffalo (4th place in East) and EMU (5th place in West). Lost to the tallest midget in the East (Akron) and made a bunch of excuses that frankly both teams could've made when we were mostly healthy. Should've also beaten CMU at home despite Wassink going down.

I can live with the outcomes against NIU and Toledo because A) I didn't expect to win those games anyways before the season started, and B) By that time, we were legitimately decimated with injuries.

You guys always whine and cry about any minuscule level of criticism, but you’re the first to actually “throw arrows” as you say at any opposing viewpoint.

I think the narrative went kind of like this in chronological order...

- USC game went well but ran out of gas on a tremendously hot day
- MSU game was a result of the short week due to travel and the fact that the team was worn down from the trip to USC
- Idaho was a result of having to come off of back to back P5 road games and losing our starting safety Tranquil and I believe Assoua was down
- Wagner - went about as expected
- Ball State - Ok now we are cooking again... things are looking up.
- Buffalo - Road game WTF!!!!!!???? How was it that CLOSE!? HOLY HELL we obviously miss our #1 Safety... Tranquill
- Akron - Somebody shoot me... Narrative here had everything to do with messed up game time, lack of fans on a cold and windy SUNDAY and the first drive ending on our own 5 yard line with a pick that went the other way... I believe this is when the "snakebitten" term started to get thrown about
- EMU - Now the tires on our bus are wobbling pretty good as we lose Wassink and now the injury excuse has legs...
- CMU - Lets see what Goddard has! Woah... we are leading big... snap, fumble, momentum shift... loss. Literally there are NO excuses for how that went down. I think I even went on a drunken rampage after that one...
- KSU - Still talking about the Akron and CMU game and starting to grow the injury issue and the team literally looks like the walking wounded. Down to a converted WR walk on as a backup RB and we have high hopes for this Falcon kid they keep talking about.
- NIU - What? Falcon injured again in warm ups? Now the snake bitten term starts running with a pitch fork... We literally only have TWO guys who started the season as RB (Ekwoge and Franklin)... Goddard looks decent in another close loss that none of us believed we would even be in... yet the coaches must have done something to this team... FIRE THE Strength Coach!
- Toledo - ... put a bullet in us... the malaise of disappointment has fully set in, we all actually start to begin the healing process... its ok... its ok... its ok.... there's always 2018!

I am pretty sure thats how it went down this season... we can all agree that no matter what... there isn't ONE thing wrong with this years team... Its not coaches, players, poorly timed turnovers, injury bug, weather... Its ALL OF THE ABOVE... Some poor coaching at times, some player miscues, some really bad turnovers, an injury bug that just wouldn't go away, and some of the worst home game weather I have witnessed over a season since I have been a WMU fan... also the learning curve for Lester's new system is apparent... we didn't play with much speed all season... tentative on defense..., corners getting lost in coverage... very little pressure from our DL on opposing QB's... . OL was making some assignment miscues... guys running poor routes, QB locking on to wide outs.... But in all of that we still played some good football in there... despite the losses we had some drives that looked fantastic... defense made some stops that showed a glimpse of what we will become as this team starts to learn to play fast again... Team will be fine... give it time.

IF we are having this same dialogue at this point next season... then there's definitely a problem and we definitely should start looking at who might be the next HC of this WMU team...

(11-28-2017 10:01 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 09:33 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

Quote:The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Why can't this place handle (appropriate) criticism?

We looked very bad for 3 quarters against a terrible Idaho team (who's now 3-8) early in the year prior to injuries. Granted, we won the game. But it still didn't look pretty. Same goes for Buffalo (4th place in East) and EMU (5th place in West). Lost to the tallest midget in the East (Akron) and made a bunch of excuses that frankly both teams could've made when we were mostly healthy. Should've also beaten CMU at home despite Wassink going down.

I can live with the outcomes against NIU and Toledo because A) I didn't expect to win those games anyways before the season started, and B) By that time, we were legitimately decimated with injuries.

You guys always whine and cry about any minuscule level of criticism, but you’re the first to actually “throw arrows” as you say at any opposing viewpoint.

I think the narrative went kind of like this in chronological order...

- USC game went well but ran out of gas on a tremendously hot day
- MSU game was a result of the short week due to travel and the fact that the team was worn down from the trip to USC
- Idaho was a result of having to come off of back to back P5 road games and losing our starting safety Tranquil and I believe Assoua was down
- Wagner - went about as expected
- Ball State - Ok now we are cooking again... things are looking up.
- Buffalo - Road game WTF!!!!!!???? How was it that CLOSE!? HOLY HELL we obviously miss our #1 Safety... Tranquill
- Akron - Somebody shoot me... Narrative here had everything to do with messed up game time, lack of fans on a cold and windy SUNDAY and the first drive ending on our own 5 yard line with a pick that went the other way... I believe this is when the "snakebitten" term started to get thrown about
- EMU - Now the tires on our bus are wobbling pretty good as we lose Wassink and now the injury excuse has legs...
- CMU - Lets see what Goddard has! Woah... we are leading big... snap, fumble, momentum shift... loss. Literally there are NO excuses for how that went down. I think I even went on a drunken rampage after that one...
- KSU - Still talking about the Akron and CMU game and starting to grow the injury issue and the team literally looks like the walking wounded. Down to a converted WR walk on as a backup RB and we have high hopes for this Falcon kid they keep talking about.
- NIU - What? Falcon injured again in warm ups? Now the snake bitten term starts running with a pitch fork... We literally only have TWO guys who started the season as RB (Ekwoge and Franklin)... Goddard looks decent in another close loss that none of us believed we would even be in... yet the coaches must have done something to this team... FIRE THE Strength Coach!
- Toledo - ... put a bullet in us... the malaise of disappointment has fully set in, we all actually start to begin the healing process... its ok... its ok... its ok.... there's always 2018!

I am pretty sure thats how it went down this season... we can all agree that no matter what... there isn't ONE thing wrong with this years team... Its not coaches, players, poorly timed turnovers, injury bug, weather... Its ALL OF THE ABOVE... Some poor coaching at times, some player miscues, some really bad turnovers, an injury bug that just wouldn't go away, and some of the worst home game weather I have witnessed over a season since I have been a WMU fan... also the learning curve for Lester's new system is apparent... we didn't play with much speed all season... tentative on defense..., corners getting lost in coverage... very little pressure from our DL on opposing QB's... . OL was making some assignment miscues... guys running poor routes, QB locking on to wide outs.... But in all of that we still played some good football in there... despite the losses we had some drives that looked fantastic... defense made some stops that showed a glimpse of what we will become as this team starts to learn to play fast again... Team will be fine... give it time.

IF we are having this same dialogue at this point next season... then there's definitely a problem and we definitely should start looking at who might be the next HC of this WMU team...

Whoa!

Good post!

I nominate it for "Post of the Year."

(11-28-2017 09:05 AM)BuickBronco Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 08:11 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 10:45 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Wassink's got the starting job unless he really falls flat in the spring game and practices. I'll be surprised if anyone else is under center when we kick off against 'Cuse.

The #2 spot should be wide open for competition, or at least should be.

I never understand the logic of anointing someone as starting QB, unless that person has been so outstanding the year before that you anticipate greatness from him consistently in the future. Wassink certainly wasn't spectacular. And his experience is about 1/2 a season. Goddard played poorly, but there are other QB's on our roster who may be incredible upgrades to Wassink, including Riddle, and why wouldn't you leave the competition open? It motivates all of the players to work as hard as they can in the off season, and right up until the first game.

I would like to see what the other QBs have. I hate the "entitlement system".

So Lester can't figure it out? Have you ever attended a practice session? You can sit for 30 mins of QB drills and see Wassink was above the others. Everyone gets hyped up on star ratings and online BS about these kids thinking they can just jump into D1 and produce. 2017 was probably the first year since 1989 WMU had a real QB issue as the only QB with snaps leaving two months before the season started. Goddard would have redshirted under normal circumstances. Goddard lost three of his RBs, Ricci, Watson go down at WR. This changes the whole practice and play calling dynamic. If Toledo loses Woodside and three RB's or any MAC team for that matter they are in the same "boat" as WMU this season. The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Not sure what your point is. My point is that every season there should be a competition for starting spots, including QB, and that nobody should be "entitled" to a starting spot unless they earn it.

Nobody started out negative towards Lester. He earned criticism. I think Lester has the type of character that if he were asked whether he deserves the criticism he would tell everyone that he does. This season, when compared to the potential this team had, and proved in the prior season, was one of the most disappointing ever. And that factors in the excuses, like injuries and bad weather (which our opponents apparently didn't have to deal with).

(11-28-2017 10:01 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  - Idaho was a result of having to come off of back to back P5 road games and losing our starting safety Tranquil and I believe Assoua was down

- Buffalo - Road game WTF!!!!!!???? How was it that CLOSE!? HOLY HELL we obviously miss our #1 Safety... Tranquill

- Akron - Somebody shoot me... Narrative here had everything to do with messed up game time, lack of fans on a cold and windy SUNDAY and the first drive ending on our own 5 yard line with a pick that went the other way... I believe this is when the "snakebitten" term started to get thrown about

I think there's really just a few games that both ends of the spectrum are truly at odds against. And that's the crux of where the criticism vs. optimism crowds lie. Two of which we won, but looked bad in the process, IMO.

Idaho - we were tailing 14-6 at halftime (therefore I don't buy the Tranquill/Assoua injuries excuse).

Buffalo - we led 24-14 in the 4th quarter (we managed alright for 3 quarters without Tranquill)

CMU - we allowed CMU to score 21 unanswered pts. in the 4th quarter.

Akron - you'll never be able to sell me on lack of crowd or bad weather because both teams had to deal with those conditions. If anything, that should've heavily favored us. It impacted their schedule far more than ours.

NIU - I'm throwing this game out because again, I didn't expect to win this game anyways... but we still managed to blow a 4th quarter lead.

How do any of these outcomes really have anything to do with injuries?

(11-28-2017 10:01 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 09:33 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

Quote:The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Why can't this place handle (appropriate) criticism?

We looked very bad for 3 quarters against a terrible Idaho team (who's now 3-8) early in the year prior to injuries. Granted, we won the game. But it still didn't look pretty. Same goes for Buffalo (4th place in East) and EMU (5th place in West). Lost to the tallest midget in the East (Akron) and made a bunch of excuses that frankly both teams could've made when we were mostly healthy. Should've also beaten CMU at home despite Wassink going down.

I can live with the outcomes against NIU and Toledo because A) I didn't expect to win those games anyways before the season started, and B) By that time, we were legitimately decimated with injuries.

You guys always whine and cry about any minuscule level of criticism, but you’re the first to actually “throw arrows” as you say at any opposing viewpoint.

I think the narrative went kind of like this in chronological order...

- USC game went well but ran out of gas on a tremendously hot day
- EXCUSE 1:MSU game was a result of the short week due to travel and the fact that the team was worn down from the trip to USC
-EXCUSE 2: Idaho was a result of having to come off of back to back P5 road games and losing our starting safety Tranquil and I believe Assoua was down
- Wagner - went about as expected
- Ball State - Ok now we are cooking again... things are looking up.
- Buffalo - Road game WTF!!!!!!???? How was it that CLOSE!? HOLY HELL EXCUSE 3: we obviously miss our #1 Safety... Tranquill
- Akron - Somebody shoot me... EXCUSE 4: Narrative here had everything to do with messed up game time, EXCUSE 5: lack of fans on EXCUSE 6: a cold and windy SUNDAY and the first drive ending on our own 5 yard line with a pick that went the other way... I believe this is when the EXCUSE 7: "snakebitten" term started to get thrown about
- EMU - Now the tires on our bus are wobbling pretty good as EXCUSE 8: we lose Wassink and now the injury excuse has legs...
- CMU - Lets see what Goddard has! Woah... we are leading big... snap, fumble, momentum shift... loss. Literally there are NO excuses for how that went down. I think I even went on a drunken rampage after that one...
- KSU - Still talking about the Akron and CMU game and starting to grow the injury issue and EXCUSE 9: the team literally looks like the walking wounded. Down to a converted WR walk on as a backup RB and we have high hopes for this Falcon kid they keep talking about.
- NIU - What? EXCUSE 10: Falcon injured again in warm ups? Now the snake bitten term starts running with a pitch fork... We literally only have TWO guys who started the season as RB (Ekwoge and Franklin)... Goddard looks decent in another close loss that none of us believed we would even be in... yet the coaches must have done something to this team... FIRE THE Strength Coach!
- Toledo - ... put a bullet in us...EXCUSE 11: the malaise of disappointment has fully set in, we all actually start to begin the healing process... its ok... its ok... its ok.... there's always 2018!

I am pretty sure thats how it went down this season... we can all agree that no matter what... there isn't ONE thing wrong with this years team... Its not coaches, players, poorly timed turnovers, injury bug, weather... Its ALL OF THE ABOVE... Some poor coaching at times, some player miscues, some really bad turnovers, an injury bug that just wouldn't go away, and some of the worst home game weather I have witnessed over a season since I have been a WMU fan... also the learning curve for Lester's new system is apparent... we didn't play with much speed all season... tentative on defense..., corners getting lost in coverage... very little pressure from our DL on opposing QB's... . OL was making some assignment miscues... guys running poor routes, QB locking on to wide outs.... But in all of that we still played some good football in there... despite the losses we had some drives that looked fantastic... defense made some stops that showed a glimpse of what we will become as this team starts to learn to play fast again... Team will be fine... give it time.

IF we are having this same dialogue at this point next season... then there's definitely a problem and we definitely should start looking at who might be the next HC of this WMU team...

I did some housekeeping on your post.

I'm not sure why you say if we are having the same dialogue next year then there would "definitely be a problem". Why wouldn't the excuses be relevant next year too, assuming they are valid this year? If these are legitimate reasons why we played poorly or lost games, then if we get bad weather or our QB gets injured next year, wont those things be an excuse for losing then?

And someone needs to explain why we had some disadvantage, and why Akron had some advantage when the game was played on Sunday. Both teams had the same delay, both had to play in exact same field condition. We got to sleep in our own beds, while they didnt. We were still playing at home, even if there was nobody in the stands. Its not like Waldo was filled with Akron fans on Sunday. Why do people bring this up like it somehow had any effect on the game itself? It is the silliest argument I have heard on this board in years.

(11-28-2017 11:17 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 10:01 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 09:33 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

Quote:The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Why can't this place handle (appropriate) criticism?

We looked very bad for 3 quarters against a terrible Idaho team (who's now 3-8) early in the year prior to injuries. Granted, we won the game. But it still didn't look pretty. Same goes for Buffalo (4th place in East) and EMU (5th place in West). Lost to the tallest midget in the East (Akron) and made a bunch of excuses that frankly both teams could've made when we were mostly healthy. Should've also beaten CMU at home despite Wassink going down.

I can live with the outcomes against NIU and Toledo because A) I didn't expect to win those games anyways before the season started, and B) By that time, we were legitimately decimated with injuries.

You guys always whine and cry about any minuscule level of criticism, but you’re the first to actually “throw arrows” as you say at any opposing viewpoint.

I think the narrative went kind of like this in chronological order...

- USC game went well but ran out of gas on a tremendously hot day
- EXCUSE 1:MSU game was a result of the short week due to travel and the fact that the team was worn down from the trip to USC
-EXCUSE 2: Idaho was a result of having to come off of back to back P5 road games and losing our starting safety Tranquil and I believe Assoua was down
- Wagner - went about as expected
- Ball State - Ok now we are cooking again... things are looking up.
- Buffalo - Road game WTF!!!!!!???? How was it that CLOSE!? HOLY HELL EXCUSE 3: we obviously miss our #1 Safety... Tranquill
- Akron - Somebody shoot me... EXCUSE 4: Narrative here had everything to do with messed up game time, EXCUSE 5: lack of fans on EXCUSE 6: a cold and windy SUNDAY and the first drive ending on our own 5 yard line with a pick that went the other way... I believe this is when the EXCUSE 7: "snakebitten" term started to get thrown about
- EMU - Now the tires on our bus are wobbling pretty good as EXCUSE 8: we lose Wassink and now the injury excuse has legs...
- CMU - Lets see what Goddard has! Woah... we are leading big... snap, fumble, momentum shift... loss. Literally there are NO excuses for how that went down. I think I even went on a drunken rampage after that one...
- KSU - Still talking about the Akron and CMU game and starting to grow the injury issue and EXCUSE 9: the team literally looks like the walking wounded. Down to a converted WR walk on as a backup RB and we have high hopes for this Falcon kid they keep talking about.
- NIU - What? EXCUSE 10: Falcon injured again in warm ups? Now the snake bitten term starts running with a pitch fork... We literally only have TWO guys who started the season as RB (Ekwoge and Franklin)... Goddard looks decent in another close loss that none of us believed we would even be in... yet the coaches must have done something to this team... FIRE THE Strength Coach!
- Toledo - ... put a bullet in us...EXCUSE 11: the malaise of disappointment has fully set in, we all actually start to begin the healing process... its ok... its ok... its ok.... there's always 2018!

I am pretty sure thats how it went down this season... we can all agree that no matter what... there isn't ONE thing wrong with this years team... Its not coaches, players, poorly timed turnovers, injury bug, weather... Its ALL OF THE ABOVE... Some poor coaching at times, some player miscues, some really bad turnovers, an injury bug that just wouldn't go away, and some of the worst home game weather I have witnessed over a season since I have been a WMU fan... also the learning curve for Lester's new system is apparent... we didn't play with much speed all season... tentative on defense..., corners getting lost in coverage... very little pressure from our DL on opposing QB's... . OL was making some assignment miscues... guys running poor routes, QB locking on to wide outs.... But in all of that we still played some good football in there... despite the losses we had some drives that looked fantastic... defense made some stops that showed a glimpse of what we will become as this team starts to learn to play fast again... Team will be fine... give it time.

IF we are having this same dialogue at this point next season... then there's definitely a problem and we definitely should start looking at who might be the next HC of this WMU team...

I did some housekeeping on your post.

I'm not sure why you say if we are having the same dialogue next year then there would definitely be a problem. Why wouldn't the excuses be relevant next year too, assuming they are valid this year? If these are legitimate reasons why we played poorly or lost games, then if we get bad weather of our QB gets injured next year, wont those things be an excuse for losing then?

Ans someone needs to explain why we had some disadvantage, and why Akron had some advantage when the game was played on Sunday. Both teams had the same delay, both had to play in exact same field condition. We go to sleep in our own beds, while they didnt. We were still playing at home, even if there was nobody in the stands. Its not like Waldo was filled with Akron fans on Sunday. Why do people bring this up like it somehow had any effect on the game itself? It is the silliest argument I have heard on this board in years.

And for the record, I couldn't agree with you more on the Akron assessment. Those excuses are absolutely ludicrous.

(11-28-2017 11:20 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 11:17 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 10:01 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 09:33 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

Quote:The negative escalated for WMU this season and the online arrows are in full shoot down mode. The regular season is over and two options exist, quit or move on to 2018. I think if you listen to everything Lester said this year he was pretty up front with what he faced as the schedule went on. He didn't throw anyone under the bus and treated his elite senior class pretty good. He had no other options.

Why can't this place handle (appropriate) criticism?

We looked very bad for 3 quarters against a terrible Idaho team (who's now 3-8) early in the year prior to injuries. Granted, we won the game. But it still didn't look pretty. Same goes for Buffalo (4th place in East) and EMU (5th place in West). Lost to the tallest midget in the East (Akron) and made a bunch of excuses that frankly both teams could've made when we were mostly healthy. Should've also beaten CMU at home despite Wassink going down.

I can live with the outcomes against NIU and Toledo because A) I didn't expect to win those games anyways before the season started, and B) By that time, we were legitimately decimated with injuries.

You guys always whine and cry about any minuscule level of criticism, but you’re the first to actually “throw arrows” as you say at any opposing viewpoint.

I think the narrative went kind of like this in chronological order...

- USC game went well but ran out of gas on a tremendously hot day
- EXCUSE 1:MSU game was a result of the short week due to travel and the fact that the team was worn down from the trip to USC
-EXCUSE 2: Idaho was a result of having to come off of back to back P5 road games and losing our starting safety Tranquil and I believe Assoua was down
- Wagner - went about as expected
- Ball State - Ok now we are cooking again... things are looking up.
- Buffalo - Road game WTF!!!!!!???? How was it that CLOSE!? HOLY HELL EXCUSE 3: we obviously miss our #1 Safety... Tranquill
- Akron - Somebody shoot me... EXCUSE 4: Narrative here had everything to do with messed up game time, EXCUSE 5: lack of fans on EXCUSE 6: a cold and windy SUNDAY and the first drive ending on our own 5 yard line with a pick that went the other way... I believe this is when the EXCUSE 7: "snakebitten" term started to get thrown about
- EMU - Now the tires on our bus are wobbling pretty good as EXCUSE 8: we lose Wassink and now the injury excuse has legs...
- CMU - Lets see what Goddard has! Woah... we are leading big... snap, fumble, momentum shift... loss. Literally there are NO excuses for how that went down. I think I even went on a drunken rampage after that one...
- KSU - Still talking about the Akron and CMU game and starting to grow the injury issue and EXCUSE 9: the team literally looks like the walking wounded. Down to a converted WR walk on as a backup RB and we have high hopes for this Falcon kid they keep talking about.
- NIU - What? EXCUSE 10: Falcon injured again in warm ups? Now the snake bitten term starts running with a pitch fork... We literally only have TWO guys who started the season as RB (Ekwoge and Franklin)... Goddard looks decent in another close loss that none of us believed we would even be in... yet the coaches must have done something to this team... FIRE THE Strength Coach!
- Toledo - ... put a bullet in us...EXCUSE 11: the malaise of disappointment has fully set in, we all actually start to begin the healing process... its ok... its ok... its ok.... there's always 2018!

I am pretty sure thats how it went down this season... we can all agree that no matter what... there isn't ONE thing wrong with this years team... Its not coaches, players, poorly timed turnovers, injury bug, weather... Its ALL OF THE ABOVE... Some poor coaching at times, some player miscues, some really bad turnovers, an injury bug that just wouldn't go away, and some of the worst home game weather I have witnessed over a season since I have been a WMU fan... also the learning curve for Lester's new system is apparent... we didn't play with much speed all season... tentative on defense..., corners getting lost in coverage... very little pressure from our DL on opposing QB's... . OL was making some assignment miscues... guys running poor routes, QB locking on to wide outs.... But in all of that we still played some good football in there... despite the losses we had some drives that looked fantastic... defense made some stops that showed a glimpse of what we will become as this team starts to learn to play fast again... Team will be fine... give it time.

IF we are having this same dialogue at this point next season... then there's definitely a problem and we definitely should start looking at who might be the next HC of this WMU team...

I did some housekeeping on your post.

I'm not sure why you say if we are having the same dialogue next year then there would definitely be a problem. Why wouldn't the excuses be relevant next year too, assuming they are valid this year? If these are legitimate reasons why we played poorly or lost games, then if we get bad weather of our QB gets injured next year, wont those things be an excuse for losing then?

Ans someone needs to explain why we had some disadvantage, and why Akron had some advantage when the game was played on Sunday. Both teams had the same delay, both had to play in exact same field condition. We go to sleep in our own beds, while they didnt. We were still playing at home, even if there was nobody in the stands. Its not like Waldo was filled with Akron fans on Sunday. Why do people bring this up like it somehow had any effect on the game itself? It is the silliest argument I have heard on this board in years.

And for the record, I couldn't agree with you more on the Akron assessment. Those excuses are absolutely ludicrous.

You guys missed the point entirely of my post... I was only breaking down what seemed to be the narrative at those specific moments as they occurred... not re-declaring them for any reason other than documentation... When certain points seemed to arise (injuries, weather... travel...etc).

You can be bitter all you want about the reality of this season... blame the coaching staff all you want... I would rather look at ALL of the factors that went into our season...

Did injuries effect this teams success? YES.
Coaches make some mistakes? YES.
Weather contribute to some lack luster attendance at home? YES.
Lack of attendance effect the mentality of the team? Likely
Lack of attendance cause us to lose? NO
Losing Wassink at EMU effect the end of the season? YES
Lack of depth at the DL effect our ability to pressure QB's? YES
Lack of DL depth cause us to lose games directly? NO
etc...
etc...
etc...



You see... its not just one thing that caused us to sputter through the season... it was a conglomeration of things... Who knows if keeping Tranquil healthy would have made any impact, but losing him definitely didn't help... Who knows if playing the Akron game on a dry saturday evening would have changed the outcome in front of a nice fan base. Who knows if keeping Bellamy and Bogan healthy down the stretch would have turned the tide in the CMU and NIU game... but both of them being injured didn't help. You can go on and on and on with these scenarios, but the fact of the matter is that we didn't meet our expectations and everyone here wants answers.

Sometimes the answer is that $h1t happens... I believe that this team will be improved next season. We lose some key players but have a year in the system under our belt. It will be interesting to see how Lesters first TRUE recruiting class comes in and how the youngsters from this year grow into next year.

I have hope for this team and this coaching staff... because, well... we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future...

(11-28-2017 11:47 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  You guys missed the point entirely of my post... I was only breaking down what seemed to be the narrative at those specific moments as they occurred... not re-declaring them for any reason other than documentation... When certain points seemed to arise (injuries, weather... travel...etc).

You can be bitter all you want about the reality of this season... blame the coaching staff all you want... I would rather look at ALL of the factors that went into our season...

Did injuries effect this teams success? YES. Disagree. I think the NIU and Toledo games are the only games you can make this argument for.
Coaches make some mistakes? YES.
Weather contribute to some lack luster attendance at home? YES. NO. Both teams deal with weather. Attendance should have a minimal (if any) effect on an outcome. Otherwise how the hell does Eastern win any games? We've dealt with poor attendance before. Stop it.
Lack of attendance effect the mentality of the team? Likely. UNLIKELY. See above.
Lack of attendance cause us to lose? NO. Exactly. Now your previous two points are irrelevant.
Losing Wassink at EMU effect the end of the season? YES. NO. Again, only really effected NIU and Toledo games. We still had the opportunity to bury CMU regardless of what was at QB, and didn't. Period.
Lack of depth at the DL effect our ability to pressure QB's? YES. Strongly disagree. Assoua, Balabini, Turner, Clark, Matich, Fayad, etc. all healthy for EMU and CMU games. Again, only buying this late in the season against NIU and Toledo.

No, I didn't miss the point. Just pointing out it's not my narrative. It's YOUR reality, not mine.

(11-28-2017 12:16 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 11:47 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  You guys missed the point entirely of my post... I was only breaking down what seemed to be the narrative at those specific moments as they occurred... not re-declaring them for any reason other than documentation... When certain points seemed to arise (injuries, weather... travel...etc).

You can be bitter all you want about the reality of this season... blame the coaching staff all you want... I would rather look at ALL of the factors that went into our season...

Did injuries effect this teams success? YES. Disagree. I think the NIU and Toledo games are the only games you can make this argument for.
Coaches make some mistakes? YES.
Weather contribute to some lack luster attendance at home? YES. NO. Both teams deal with weather. Attendance should have a minimal (if any) effect on an outcome. Otherwise how the hell does Eastern win any games? We've dealt with poor attendance before. Stop it.
Lack of attendance effect the mentality of the team? Likely. UNLIKELY. See above.
Lack of attendance cause us to lose? NO. Exactly. Now your previous two points are irrelevant.
Losing Wassink at EMU effect the end of the season? YES. NO. Again, only really effected NIU and Toledo games. We still had the opportunity to bury CMU regardless of what was at QB, and didn't. Period.
Lack of depth at the DL effect our ability to pressure QB's? YES. Strongly disagree. Assoua, Balabini, Turner, Clark, Matich, Fayad, etc. all healthy for EMU and CMU games. Again, only buying this late in the season against NIU and Toledo.

No, I didn't miss the point. Just pointing out it's not my narrative. It's YOUR reality, not mine.

You have your beliefs in what caused this disaster of a year... Lester. Its all his fault. His coaches and system suck. So whats next? What do you do about it? Complain some more? Drive yourself nuts and continue to bore us all with your dislike for this guy and what he's done to destroy the powerhouse that was WMU football?

Personally I would rather be more optimistic at this point... It's year one.

(11-28-2017 11:47 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  You guys missed the point entirely of my post... I was only breaking down what seemed to be the narrative at those specific moments as they occurred... not re-declaring them for any reason other than documentation... When certain points seemed to arise (injuries, weather... travel...etc).

You can be bitter all you want about the reality of this season... blame the coaching staff all you want... I would rather look at ALL of the factors that went into our season...

Did injuries effect this teams success? YES.
Coaches make some mistakes? YES.
Weather contribute to some lack luster attendance at home? YES.
Lack of attendance effect the mentality of the team? Likely
Lack of attendance cause us to lose? NO
Losing Wassink at EMU effect the end of the season? YES
Lack of depth at the DL effect our ability to pressure QB's? YES
Lack of DL depth cause us to lose games directly? NO
etc...
etc...
etc...



You see... its not just one thing that caused us to sputter through the season... it was a conglomeration of things... Who knows if keeping Tranquil healthy would have made any impact, but losing him definitely didn't help... Who knows if playing the Akron game on a dry saturday evening would have changed the outcome in front of a nice fan base. Who knows if keeping Bellamy and Bogan healthy down the stretch would have turned the tide in the CMU and NIU game... but both of them being injured didn't help. You can go on and on and on with these scenarios, but the fact of the matter is that we didn't meet our expectations and everyone here wants answers.

Sometimes the answer is that $h1t happens... I believe that this team will be improved next season. We lose some key players but have a year in the system under our belt. It will be interesting to see how Lesters first TRUE recruiting class comes in and how the youngsters from this year grow into next year.

I have hope for this team and this coaching staff... because, well... we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future...

I see what you are saying, and dont disagree that these things happened, or that, in one way or another, those things may have some effect on the games. My point is though that every single item you cite is foreseeable, and happens to every single football team, every single year. Toledo, CMU, NIU, Akron, Alabama, Georgia, and everyone else has a ton of injuries too. Good teams overcome injuries. At least three of our losses, and several close calls, came before our significant injuries. Back then we were blaming our inexperienced sophomore QB for our poor play; but when he got injured we were losing because that same inexperienced sophomore QB wasnt playing? LOL.

If the players cant get "UP" for a game because there arent people in the seats, when a game got moved to a time when everyone knew people wouldnt be able to attend, and when most people didnt know it even got rescheduled, or what time it would be played, because they didnt even know if the field would be playable, then extra shame on the coaches, because that is something they can easily explain. Folks need to abandon this "narrative", as nothing else has credibility after that argument.

There would have been a lot of coaches who would love to have coached this group of players this year, and in my estimation would have won 8-9 games, even given the circumstances you list. At this point we can agree to disagree on whether Lester and his coaches did a good or even adequate job of coaching this team. I doubt I will ever convince you that they didnt, and I know for sure you wont convince me they did.

Next year will be another football season, and another opportunity for Lester to succeed. I will be rooting like he11 for us to win every game, and hopefully by convincing scores. WMU football reached some high standards in recent years, and really became, at least for a moment, a top G5 program, with still upward mobility. We needed to maintain the momentum though, and for sure that has been lost. Lester is on his own in terms of reestablishing positive momentum. Time will tell.