(11-13-2017 10:01 AM)TG4 Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 08:27 AM)holyterror Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 06:52 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  Again what did the Lawson do (prior to leaving Memphis) that was so terrible? No one has yet to give a reason for all the hate . . .

Eric,
The sons were marketed, flat out. I think it happens a lot more than I realize, but Keelon had his boys, and himself, on the block, in front of God and everybody. It stank of corruption then, and it still does. Frankly, I feared an NCAA investigation when they came on board with us.

As I say, I'm sure the marketing of the kids by the parents is common; but this was a blatant, full-frontal marketing strategy that completely turned me off. I wished then, as I wish now, that we'd have passed on the entire package.

Dedric was a good player for us. NBA? I don't know, but a double-double atverage is quite an accomplishment. KJ might have turned out ok for us. He showed flashes here and there. I think everyone was really holding their breath, hoping we'd land Chandler. That hope has disappeared like a fart in the wind.

The way the brothers finished their time at Memphis, I'll chalk that up to poor judgment and immaturity. But you expect better from "Coach's Kids".

Excellent post.

Memphis area recruiting is just toxic right now. I’ve even heard rumors about the Harris’ wanting “extra stuff”. But Tubby needs to recruit better. Didn’t like what he did with his first two classes. Too many JC players imo.

This thread is premised on Memphis area kids staying and playing for Memphis. IMO, with the evolution of high school BB now revolving around the AAU program, its sponsors & coaches rather than even high school teams & their coaches, the fact that some good kids reside in the Memphis area is actually immaterial to where they eventually go to college. Prior to the advent of strong, financed AAU programs, kids more likely played for area schools. That gave our university a built-in advantage because the Memphis area has had a long & strong tradition of high school BB. That advantage is no longer there IMO & I believe it directly relates to the influence & strength of the AAU programs. Through AAU participation, the kids get national attention/exposure & they don't develop the innate loyalty to our university that prior generations did. And apparently there is financial benefit to be had based upon where a kid commits. Blame Tubby if you like, no doubt he doesn't compete for local recruits like previous coaches (excepting Cal who was the foremost exploiter of the AAU system who didn't recruit locally either), but local kids no longer have the Memphis pride of previous generations. Instead, the AAU has conditioned a different loyalty in local kids & I believe this will affect local recruiting for as long as AAU is the primary influence no matter who coaches at Memphis.

(11-13-2017 09:02 AM)jgardne Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 08:27 AM)holyterror Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 06:52 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote:  Again what did the Lawson do (prior to leaving Memphis) that was so terrible? No one has yet to give a reason for all the hate . . .

Eric,
The sons were marketed, flat out. I think it happens a lot more than I realize, but Keelon had his boys, and himself, on the block, in front of God and everybody. It stank of corruption then, and it still does. Frankly, I feared an NCAA investigation when they came on board with us.

As I say, I'm sure the marketing of the kids by the parents is common; but this was a blatant, full-frontal marketing strategy that completely turned me off. I wished then, as I wish now, that we'd have passed on the entire package.

Dedric was a good player for us. NBA? I don't know, but a double-double average is quite an accomplishment. KJ might have turned out ok for us. He showed flashes here and there. I think everyone was really holding their breath, hoping we'd land Chandler. That hope has disappeared like a fart in the wind.

The way the brothers finished their time at Memphis, I'll chalk that up to poor judgment and immaturity. But you expect better from "Coach's Kids".

Thank God they're gone so we can enjoy innumerable beatdowns this season with a clear conscience.

(11-13-2017 11:08 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  This thread is premised on Memphis area kids staying and playing for Memphis. IMO, with the evolution of high school BB now revolving around the AAU program, its sponsors & coaches rather than even high school teams & their coaches, the fact that some good kids reside in the Memphis area is actually immaterial to where they eventually go to college. Prior to the advent of strong, financed AAU programs, kids more likely played for area schools. That gave our university a built-in advantage because the Memphis area has had a long & strong tradition of high school BB. That advantage is no longer there IMO & I believe it directly relates to the influence & strength of the AAU programs. Through AAU participation, the kids get national attention/exposure & they don't develop the innate loyalty to our university that prior generations did. And apparently there is financial benefit to be had based upon where a kid commits. Blame Tubby if you like, no doubt he doesn't compete for local recruits like previous coaches (excepting Cal who was the foremost exploiter of the AAU system who didn't recruit locally either), but local kids no longer have the Memphis pride of previous generations. Instead, the AAU has conditioned a different loyalty in local kids & I believe this will affect local recruiting for as long as AAU is the primary influence no matter who coaches at Memphis.

Excellent perspective.

As Galilee posted earlier in this thread, if Team Tubby doesn't "play" the shady AAU recruiting game, it is imperative that they at least do all they can to do to legally build/maintain relationships with the likes of Team Penny, local HS coaches, community involvement, etc.

My concern (shared by a growing number of Tiger fans, too) is that Coach Smith and his staff appear to be a bit lackadaisical in maximizing the local low hanging fruit that is Memphis area high school basketball.

(11-13-2017 12:36 PM)GermantownTiger Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 11:08 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  This thread is premised on Memphis area kids staying and playing for Memphis. IMO, with the evolution of high school BB now revolving around the AAU program, its sponsors & coaches rather than even high school teams & their coaches, the fact that some good kids reside in the Memphis area is actually immaterial to where they eventually go to college. Prior to the advent of strong, financed AAU programs, kids more likely played for area schools. That gave our university a built-in advantage because the Memphis area has had a long & strong tradition of high school BB. That advantage is no longer there IMO & I believe it directly relates to the influence & strength of the AAU programs. Through AAU participation, the kids get national attention/exposure & they don't develop the innate loyalty to our university that prior generations did. And apparently there is financial benefit to be had based upon where a kid commits. Blame Tubby if you like, no doubt he doesn't compete for local recruits like previous coaches (excepting Cal who was the foremost exploiter of the AAU system who didn't recruit locally either), but local kids no longer have the Memphis pride of previous generations. Instead, the AAU has conditioned a different loyalty in local kids & I believe this will affect local recruiting for as long as AAU is the primary influence no matter who coaches at Memphis.

Excellent perspective.

As Galilee posted earlier in this thread, if Team Tubby doesn't "play" the shady AAU recruiting game, it is imperative that they at least do all they can to do to legally build/maintain relationships with the likes of Team Penny, local HS coaches, community involvement, etc.

My concern (shared by a growing number of Tiger fans, too) is that Coach Smith and his staff appear to be a bit lackadaisical in maximizing the local low hanging fruit that is Memphis area high school basketball.

I share your concern. No one that I know thinks recruiting is a strong suit for Tubby. But unfortunately Tubby also seems to have an arrogance about who he is, his past accomplishments & his skills as a coach which has led him to forego the normal relationship building with local high school coaches. He should at least attempt to level the recruiting playing field with local kids by building relationships with the area coaches. Can't say that without also saying some local coaches are also beneficiaries of the AAU game, so there will always be a counter sentiment pushing Memphis area kids elsewhere.

God I miss Finch.

(11-13-2017 11:08 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  This thread is premised on Memphis area kids staying and playing for Memphis. IMO, with the evolution of high school BB now revolving around the AAU program, its sponsors & coaches rather than even high school teams & their coaches, the fact that some good kids reside in the Memphis area is actually immaterial to where they eventually go to college. Prior to the advent of strong, financed AAU programs, kids more likely played for area schools. That gave our university a built-in advantage because the Memphis area has had a long & strong tradition of high school BB. That advantage is no longer there IMO & I believe it directly relates to the influence & strength of the AAU programs. Through AAU participation, the kids get national attention/exposure & they don't develop the innate loyalty to our university that prior generations did. And apparently there is financial benefit to be had based upon where a kid commits. Blame Tubby if you like, no doubt he doesn't compete for local recruits like previous coaches (excepting Cal who was the foremost exploiter of the AAU system who didn't recruit locally either), but local kids no longer have the Memphis pride of previous generations. Instead, the AAU has conditioned a different loyalty in local kids & I believe this will affect local recruiting for as long as AAU is the primary influence no matter who coaches at Memphis.

This. It's over. The system is stacked against us. Only the fools think Tubby is the problem. We will fire Tubby in 4 months, and it won't change a thing. Maybe we hire someone who's connected in on the con like Josh. Whatever, that didn't work before only a fool believes it now. Even if it does, we are only a steeping stone now.

Maybe Galilee can go on TCU or Iowa St. boards. He's yelling at windmills here.

The problem is that no one wants Memphis as a city to succeed. Gannett, Entercom, Nike, ESPN, etc.

Never go full conspiracy.

It's interesting how the 'temperature' has changed regarding AAU people over the past couple of months...

(11-13-2017 04:45 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Never go full conspiracy.

Please. [1]

Everything is by design top-down economic planning. Everyone else just follows along.

[1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/...an-revival

Then why play the game at all, why have a college with BB and FB
if it's pre-ordained how it will turn out for Memphis?

(11-12-2017 05:31 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:59 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:40 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:27 PM)Galilee Wrote:  I don't get paid 3 million dollars to help him. Instead of being sarcastic you need to face reality that Tubby is lazy. The little effort he put forth was pitched as they should be honored that he is interested in them.(This I know for fact) You just go ahead and reply with smart answers while this program is ran into the ground. Speaking of "rise" this program will rise again with this type of effort.

Please don't call a man who's won at every level for the past 40 years "Lazy". It's insulting.

The coach isn't going up against Cal. There's no reason too. We all know how this works by now.

He didn't call someone who has won at every level for the past "40" years, "Lazy". He called a guy who rode someone else's coattails and won at a high lvl many, many years ago and hasn't done anything of worth since "Lazy".

Well. I'm sure you know you're wrong.

But that doesn't matter. Y'all will just hate the next guy after Tubby.

When Tubby won his only NCAA tournament game during his "miracle" run in 2013; this was what he had.

Minnesota 2013
51 Rodney Williams SR
102 Andre Hollins SOPH
104 Maurice Walker SOPH
108 Joe Coleman SOPH
169 Austin Hollins JR
26 Trevor Mbakwe (juco, not highly ranked) SR

Tubby had 5 players ranked higher than any of the current players on our roster. Aside from Mbakwe, none were jucos.

The same question remains. IF Tubby had much higher rated players when he won his only NCAA game in 10 years, why would anyone expect him to be able to duplicate that when he is recruiting at a much lower level here?

His last two NCAA wins before that 11 and 12 years ago were at Kentucky when he had much higher ranked players than he did at Minnesota.

The last time Tubby made it out of the first weekend was 13 years ago. He went to the Elite 8 with 5 NBA players (Azubuike, Hayes, Morris, Rondo, Crawford).

I would be fully on board if Tubby was recruiting players in the top 75-150, but obviously he isn't and obviously he isn't going to win without them. He never has.

(11-14-2017 11:36 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 05:31 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:59 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:40 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:27 PM)Galilee Wrote:  I don't get paid 3 million dollars to help him. Instead of being sarcastic you need to face reality that Tubby is lazy. The little effort he put forth was pitched as they should be honored that he is interested in them.(This I know for fact) You just go ahead and reply with smart answers while this program is ran into the ground. Speaking of "rise" this program will rise again with this type of effort.

Please don't call a man who's won at every level for the past 40 years "Lazy". It's insulting.

The coach isn't going up against Cal. There's no reason too. We all know how this works by now.

He didn't call someone who has won at every level for the past "40" years, "Lazy". He called a guy who rode someone else's coattails and won at a high lvl many, many years ago and hasn't done anything of worth since "Lazy".

Well. I'm sure you know you're wrong.

But that doesn't matter. Y'all will just hate the next guy after Tubby.

When Tubby won his only NCAA tournament game during his "miracle" run in 2013; this was what he had.

Minnesota 2013
51 Rodney Williams SR
102 Andre Hollins SOPH
104 Maurice Walker SOPH
108 Joe Coleman SOPH
169 Austin Hollins JR
26 Trevor Mbakwe (juco, not highly ranked) SR

Tubby had 5 players ranked higher than any of the current players on our roster. Aside from Mbakwe, none were jucos.

The same question remains. IF Tubby had much higher rated players when he won his only NCAA game in 10 years, why would anyone expect him to be able to duplicate that when he is recruiting at a much lower level here?

His last two NCAA wins before that 11 and 12 years ago were at Kentucky when he had much higher ranked players than he did at Minnesota.

The last time Tubby made it out of the first weekend was 13 years ago. He went to the Elite 8 with 5 NBA players (Azubuike, Hayes, Morris, Rondo, Crawford).

I would be fully on board if Tubby was recruiting players in the top 75-150, but obviously he isn't and obviously he isn't going to win without them. He never has.

This right here!

If he is recruiting the same level of player (and worse) as he did at Minnesota and TT, why in the heck do people want to "wait and see" if he has better results?

He coached as well as he possibly could coach, developed as well as he possibly could develop, and you see the results, 1 NCAA win in 10 years.

So one of the "wait and see" guys please explain to me how Tubby can do the same thing over and over (even worse) and have better results?

(11-14-2017 03:50 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 11:36 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 05:31 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:59 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:40 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  Please don't call a man who's won at every level for the past 40 years "Lazy". It's insulting.

The coach isn't going up against Cal. There's no reason too. We all know how this works by now.

He didn't call someone who has won at every level for the past "40" years, "Lazy". He called a guy who rode someone else's coattails and won at a high lvl many, many years ago and hasn't done anything of worth since "Lazy".

Well. I'm sure you know you're wrong.

But that doesn't matter. Y'all will just hate the next guy after Tubby.

When Tubby won his only NCAA tournament game during his "miracle" run in 2013; this was what he had.

Minnesota 2013
51 Rodney Williams SR
102 Andre Hollins SOPH
104 Maurice Walker SOPH
108 Joe Coleman SOPH
169 Austin Hollins JR
26 Trevor Mbakwe (juco, not highly ranked) SR

Tubby had 5 players ranked higher than any of the current players on our roster. Aside from Mbakwe, none were jucos.

The same question remains. IF Tubby had much higher rated players when he won his only NCAA game in 10 years, why would anyone expect him to be able to duplicate that when he is recruiting at a much lower level here?

His last two NCAA wins before that 11 and 12 years ago were at Kentucky when he had much higher ranked players than he did at Minnesota.

The last time Tubby made it out of the first weekend was 13 years ago. He went to the Elite 8 with 5 NBA players (Azubuike, Hayes, Morris, Rondo, Crawford).

I would be fully on board if Tubby was recruiting players in the top 75-150, but obviously he isn't and obviously he isn't going to win without them. He never has.

This right here!

If he is recruiting the same level of player (and worse) as he did at Minnesota and TT, why in the heck do people want to "wait and see" if he has better results?

He coached as well as he possibly could coach, developed as well as he possibly could develop, and you see the results, 1 NCAA win in 10 years.

So one of the "wait and see" guys please explain to me how Tubby can do the same thing over and over (even worse) and have better results?

Like most the stuff that this guy says, it is not true. At TT, he had two players who are all Big12 players this year. At MN, his 1st recruiting class was a top25. This guy just lies all the time and he shows some meaningless stat to prove his garbage points.

Go Tigers

(11-14-2017 03:58 PM)GopherTubby Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 03:50 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 11:36 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 05:31 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 12:59 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  He didn't call someone who has won at every level for the past "40" years, "Lazy". He called a guy who rode someone else's coattails and won at a high lvl many, many years ago and hasn't done anything of worth since "Lazy".

Well. I'm sure you know you're wrong.

But that doesn't matter. Y'all will just hate the next guy after Tubby.

When Tubby won his only NCAA tournament game during his "miracle" run in 2013; this was what he had.

Minnesota 2013
51 Rodney Williams SR
102 Andre Hollins SOPH
104 Maurice Walker SOPH
108 Joe Coleman SOPH
169 Austin Hollins JR
26 Trevor Mbakwe (juco, not highly ranked) SR

Tubby had 5 players ranked higher than any of the current players on our roster. Aside from Mbakwe, none were jucos.

The same question remains. IF Tubby had much higher rated players when he won his only NCAA game in 10 years, why would anyone expect him to be able to duplicate that when he is recruiting at a much lower level here?

His last two NCAA wins before that 11 and 12 years ago were at Kentucky when he had much higher ranked players than he did at Minnesota.

The last time Tubby made it out of the first weekend was 13 years ago. He went to the Elite 8 with 5 NBA players (Azubuike, Hayes, Morris, Rondo, Crawford).

I would be fully on board if Tubby was recruiting players in the top 75-150, but obviously he isn't and obviously he isn't going to win without them. He never has.

This right here!

If he is recruiting the same level of player (and worse) as he did at Minnesota and TT, why in the heck do people want to "wait and see" if he has better results?

He coached as well as he possibly could coach, developed as well as he possibly could develop, and you see the results, 1 NCAA win in 10 years.

So one of the "wait and see" guys please explain to me how Tubby can do the same thing over and over (even worse) and have better results?

Like most the stuff that this guy says, it is not true. At TT, he had two players who are all Big12 players this year. At MN, his 1st recruiting class was a top25. This guy just lies all the time and he shows some meaningless stat to prove his garbage points.

Go Tigers

So he had even better players than he has now and still only won 1 NCAA game in 10 years? I think you made his point even better for him.

(11-14-2017 04:04 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 03:58 PM)GopherTubby Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 03:50 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 11:36 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 05:31 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  Well. I'm sure you know you're wrong.

But that doesn't matter. Y'all will just hate the next guy after Tubby.

When Tubby won his only NCAA tournament game during his "miracle" run in 2013; this was what he had.

Minnesota 2013
51 Rodney Williams SR
102 Andre Hollins SOPH
104 Maurice Walker SOPH
108 Joe Coleman SOPH
169 Austin Hollins JR
26 Trevor Mbakwe (juco, not highly ranked) SR

Tubby had 5 players ranked higher than any of the current players on our roster. Aside from Mbakwe, none were jucos.

The same question remains. IF Tubby had much higher rated players when he won his only NCAA game in 10 years, why would anyone expect him to be able to duplicate that when he is recruiting at a much lower level here?

His last two NCAA wins before that 11 and 12 years ago were at Kentucky when he had much higher ranked players than he did at Minnesota.

The last time Tubby made it out of the first weekend was 13 years ago. He went to the Elite 8 with 5 NBA players (Azubuike, Hayes, Morris, Rondo, Crawford).

I would be fully on board if Tubby was recruiting players in the top 75-150, but obviously he isn't and obviously he isn't going to win without them. He never has.

This right here!

If he is recruiting the same level of player (and worse) as he did at Minnesota and TT, why in the heck do people want to "wait and see" if he has better results?

He coached as well as he possibly could coach, developed as well as he possibly could develop, and you see the results, 1 NCAA win in 10 years.

So one of the "wait and see" guys please explain to me how Tubby can do the same thing over and over (even worse) and have better results?

Like most the stuff that this guy says, it is not true. At TT, he had two players who are all Big12 players this year. At MN, his 1st recruiting class was a top25. This guy just lies all the time and he shows some meaningless stat to prove his garbage points.

Go Tigers

So he had even better players than he has now and still only won 1 NCAA game in 10 years? I think you made his point even better for him.

Nice try, no. Tubby took over a program that was not on the map and later he put it on the map. All the sudden, our fans' expectations sky rocketed and he simply was burned out. He had a few unfortunate injured stars and a few bas transfers. He also had TM who punched a girl in Florida and Royce While who stole a pair of jeans in MOA. In 2010, Tubby had one of the best teams in the country. Still to this date, we keep saying what if TM and Royce played? What if injuries did not happen?
The problem with you guys is that you don't do your homework. People like Stam, snow, Saluk,.... know this so they keep posting wrong information here and you guys accept them. They have an agenda. Unfortunately, like many other places a small minority can make a huge noise as they are doing it here.

Go Tigers

So tell me, do you follow Tubby from school to school?

(11-14-2017 04:26 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  So tell me, do you follow Tubby from school to school?

starting to think this is a ron bell situation like Pastner had...

Cal and Fuente did so much more for Memphis than Tubby ever did for Minnesota and we don't have fans arguing on other message boards about how great they are...

(11-14-2017 04:28 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 04:26 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  So tell me, do you follow Tubby from school to school?

starting to think this is a ron bell situation like Pastner had...

Cal and Fuente did so much more for Memphis than Tubby ever did for Minnesota and we don't have fans arguing on other message boards about how great they are...

So much more? At any cost I feel. The problem is that no one outside of Memphis and Lexington like Cal. I moved to MN at the same time as Tubby did. There are some people who follow him from school to school but they don't come here because this board is filled with negativity and lots of speculations. Facts are unknown here. there is a guy whose name is Sam. He follows Tubby and tried to post here a few times but gave up. He still posts stuff at TT board and people love him. He is from MotorCity.

(11-14-2017 04:49 PM)GopherTubby Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 04:28 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 04:26 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  So tell me, do you follow Tubby from school to school?

starting to think this is a ron bell situation like Pastner had...

Cal and Fuente did so much more for Memphis than Tubby ever did for Minnesota and we don't have fans arguing on other message boards about how great they are...

So much more? At any cost I feel. The problem is that no one outside of Memphis and Lexington like Cal. I moved to MN at the same time as Tubby did. There are some people who follow him from school to school but they don't come here because this board is filled with negativity and lots of speculations. Facts are unknown here. there is a guy whose name is Sam. He follows Tubby and tried to post here a few times but gave up. He still posts stuff at TT board and people love him. He is from MotorCity.

Memphis has won 34 NCAA tournament games, Minnesota has won 13, Texas Tech has won 8. Minnesota has won 1 tournament game in the last 20 years, Texas Tech has won 3.

I'm sorry, success for us in basketball, with the resources, money spent, and traditional fan support, does not consider going to the tournament worth $3 million.

Tubby inherited a program with 4 top 100 players and 1 committed. They are all gone, 3 are at Kansas.

You know what my season tickets cost me and my family? I had them up until last year. $700 donation per seat (4), and then $500 per seat for the season tickets. I was behind the basket about 25 rows up.

This year, you can get the whole season for $99. Heard about someone getting 3 tickets, section 109, for $500 total and no donation. They are running deals where if you buy 10 tickets, they give you 12 games plus movie passes. This has NEVER been the case in my lifetime.

You people that come in and judge us for the way we look at things have no idea. There is a ton of money spent and love and pride for this university and basketball team in this city. We have never had a coach that couldn't recruit Memphis until now. We have never had fan apathy at this level.

Yes, I'm sure that the 3 tournament appearances and 1 win that Tubby gave Minnesota was a big deal there and you should be grateful. He also recruited much better than he has here, which makes ZERO SENSE.