(09-28-2017 08:01 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 08:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am beginning to wonder if Alabama football players are also involved? I do not see Alabama basketball as a strong basketball school, but their football is at the top every day.

That's actually a reason to think Alabama football isn't involved: Their basketball is a mediocre program, doesn't naturally get top recruits, so a program like that might feel the need to resort to breaking the rules to move up.

Alabama football, like Kentucky and Duke basketball, doesn't have that problem. Top recruits want to come there, so they don't need to cheat to get them.

That doesn't mean that top programs don't cheat, we know that they do (e.g., in the past 15 years, Alabama, Ohio State and USC in football), but it does mean they have less incentive to do so than lesser programs.

To me, the schools to be most suspicious of are schools that historically weren't much, but then suddenly make a big leap up in terms of quality of recruits and results on the field, e.g. schools like Baylor and Ole Miss in football, and Louisville as an overall athletic department.

The program might have less incentive to cheat, but the individual assistant coach is under enormous pressure to deliver better and better recruits. How do you convince a five-star QB to ride the bench?

No question, there are still incentives for even top programs to cheat.

E.g., this is pure speculation, but one might wonder why Louisville basketball has been caught cheating so much in recent years, when their basketball program is both currently and historically elite, so naturally attracts good talent?

The answer could be a Calipari effect. Louisville has always benchmarked itself versus Kentucky, and Cal bringing in loads of top recruits the past 6-7 years puts intensive pressure on Louisville to keep up.

Both the NFL and the NBA needs a real minor league system to allow kids graduating HS to bypass college completely to take their skills to the pro level. This removes the rampant cheating at the collegiate level because...you know...the purpose of a university/college is to educate students...

(09-28-2017 09:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 08:01 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 08:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am beginning to wonder if Alabama football players are also involved? I do not see Alabama basketball as a strong basketball school, but their football is at the top every day.

That's actually a reason to think Alabama football isn't involved: Their basketball is a mediocre program, doesn't naturally get top recruits, so a program like that might feel the need to resort to breaking the rules to move up.

Alabama football, like Kentucky and Duke basketball, doesn't have that problem. Top recruits want to come there, so they don't need to cheat to get them.

That doesn't mean that top programs don't cheat, we know that they do (e.g., in the past 15 years, Alabama, Ohio State and USC in football), but it does mean they have less incentive to do so than lesser programs.

To me, the schools to be most suspicious of are schools that historically weren't much, but then suddenly make a big leap up in terms of quality of recruits and results on the field, e.g. schools like Baylor and Ole Miss in football, and Louisville as an overall athletic department.

The program might have less incentive to cheat, but the individual assistant coach is under enormous pressure to deliver better and better recruits. How do you convince a five-star QB to ride the bench?

No question, there are still incentives for even top programs to cheat.

E.g., this is pure speculation, but one might wonder why Louisville basketball has been caught cheating so much in recent years, when their basketball program is both currently and historically elite, so naturally attracts good talent?

The answer could be a Calipari effect. Louisville has always benchmarked itself versus Kentucky, and Cal bringing in loads of top recruits the past 6-7 years puts intensive pressure on Louisville to keep up.

Ever wonder whey some elite programs get the plethora of 5** athletes-they cheat. Yes some are naturally drawn to success, but it is simply just not feasible to grab 5* after 5* after 5*. Too many other good programs and believe it or not academic programs that would draw in kids to another school of their choice and parent influence.

(09-28-2017 11:06 AM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 08:01 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 08:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am beginning to wonder if Alabama football players are also involved? I do not see Alabama basketball as a strong basketball school, but their football is at the top every day.

That's actually a reason to think Alabama football isn't involved: Their basketball is a mediocre program, doesn't naturally get top recruits, so a program like that might feel the need to resort to breaking the rules to move up.

Alabama football, like Kentucky and Duke basketball, doesn't have that problem. Top recruits want to come there, so they don't need to cheat to get them.

That doesn't mean that top programs don't cheat, we know that they do (e.g., in the past 15 years, Alabama, Ohio State and USC in football), but it does mean they have less incentive to do so than lesser programs.

To me, the schools to be most suspicious of are schools that historically weren't much, but then suddenly make a big leap up in terms of quality of recruits and results on the field, e.g. schools like Baylor and Ole Miss in football, and Louisville as an overall athletic department.

The program might have less incentive to cheat, but the individual assistant coach is under enormous pressure to deliver better and better recruits. How do you convince a five-star QB to ride the bench?

No question, there are still incentives for even top programs to cheat.

E.g., this is pure speculation, but one might wonder why Louisville basketball has been caught cheating so much in recent years, when their basketball program is both currently and historically elite, so naturally attracts good talent?

The answer could be a Calipari effect. Louisville has always benchmarked itself versus Kentucky, and Cal bringing in loads of top recruits the past 6-7 years puts intensive pressure on Louisville to keep up.

Ever wonder whey some elite programs get the plethora of 5** athletes-they cheat. Yes some are naturally drawn to success, but it is simply just not feasible to grab 5* after 5* after 5*. Too many other good programs and believe it or not academic programs that would draw in kids to another school of their choice and parent influence.

Don't fool yourself regarding Duke or Kentucky basketball, or even Alabama football.

Certain schools make the payment on the backend with a guaranteed job from an alum or other perks and favors. When it becomes known that the particular school can and will make the payment on the backend, they have an advantage over those that have to involve upfront cash. $50K up front or Duke alum investors backing you in a few years - which is the better deal? However, all the coaches know what is going on and to a certain degree have no control other than to refuse any kid that is tied to the money train.

It's like the myth of the "Carolina Way". That was a false narrative, told for so long and swallowed hook line and sinker by vast number of folks, but it's false. The only "Carolina Ways" occur at an Ivy League school. I commend UNC for looking after their legacies and the kids they use - it's the responsible thing to do.

Anyone thinking there are angels out there in the P-5 is naïve.

(09-28-2017 11:06 AM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 08:01 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 08:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am beginning to wonder if Alabama football players are also involved? I do not see Alabama basketball as a strong basketball school, but their football is at the top every day.

That's actually a reason to think Alabama football isn't involved: Their basketball is a mediocre program, doesn't naturally get top recruits, so a program like that might feel the need to resort to breaking the rules to move up.

Alabama football, like Kentucky and Duke basketball, doesn't have that problem. Top recruits want to come there, so they don't need to cheat to get them.

That doesn't mean that top programs don't cheat, we know that they do (e.g., in the past 15 years, Alabama, Ohio State and USC in football), but it does mean they have less incentive to do so than lesser programs.

To me, the schools to be most suspicious of are schools that historically weren't much, but then suddenly make a big leap up in terms of quality of recruits and results on the field, e.g. schools like Baylor and Ole Miss in football, and Louisville as an overall athletic department.

The program might have less incentive to cheat, but the individual assistant coach is under enormous pressure to deliver better and better recruits. How do you convince a five-star QB to ride the bench?

No question, there are still incentives for even top programs to cheat.

E.g., this is pure speculation, but one might wonder why Louisville basketball has been caught cheating so much in recent years, when their basketball program is both currently and historically elite, so naturally attracts good talent?

The answer could be a Calipari effect. Louisville has always benchmarked itself versus Kentucky, and Cal bringing in loads of top recruits the past 6-7 years puts intensive pressure on Louisville to keep up.

Ever wonder whey some elite programs get the plethora of 5** athletes-they cheat. Yes some are naturally drawn to success, but it is simply just not feasible to grab 5* after 5* after 5*. Too many other good programs and believe it or not academic programs that would draw in kids to another school of their choice and parent influence.

Academic programs? We ARE talking about basketball players and 5* are the one and done types.

The biggest draw for these types of players is what will give them the best chance for the NBA. That is usually being at a top program.

Not saying the top programs don't cheat, but they don't do it anymore than the next couple of tiers. (except North Carolina-they didn't even bother making them go to class-but in terms of money, they likely aren't cheating any worse).

If you want to know how these HS recruits think, just look at LeBron and friends. They all tried to get together to create a championship team.

(09-28-2017 12:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  Not saying the top programs don't cheat, but they don't do it anymore than the next couple of tiers.

People cheat because they want to win, and coaches cheat because winning increases their income, job security and/or future job opportunities. Those incentives exist whether a team is at the very top of the sport or much farther down the ladder.

(09-28-2017 01:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 12:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  Not saying the top programs don't cheat, but they don't do it anymore than the next couple of tiers.

People cheat because they want to win, and coaches cheat because winning increases their income, job security and/or future job opportunities. Those incentives exist whether a team is at the very top of the sport or much farther down the ladder.

I do think what could be done to get the message to these schools is to strip them of their accreditations and federal/state grants for grants for students and research.

saw the best line yet....

Paul Johnson: When the FBI/CBB stuff broke, for once in my life, I said I'm glad we're with Russell Athletic.

Sources: Adidas Was Trying To Steer Nation's #1 Overall Basketball Recruit To Kansas

https://www.chatsports.com/kansas-jayhaw...nsas-35608

(09-28-2017 12:20 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 11:06 AM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 09:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 08:01 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 07:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's actually a reason to think Alabama football isn't involved: Their basketball is a mediocre program, doesn't naturally get top recruits, so a program like that might feel the need to resort to breaking the rules to move up.

Alabama football, like Kentucky and Duke basketball, doesn't have that problem. Top recruits want to come there, so they don't need to cheat to get them.

That doesn't mean that top programs don't cheat, we know that they do (e.g., in the past 15 years, Alabama, Ohio State and USC in football), but it does mean they have less incentive to do so than lesser programs.

To me, the schools to be most suspicious of are schools that historically weren't much, but then suddenly make a big leap up in terms of quality of recruits and results on the field, e.g. schools like Baylor and Ole Miss in football, and Louisville as an overall athletic department.

The program might have less incentive to cheat, but the individual assistant coach is under enormous pressure to deliver better and better recruits. How do you convince a five-star QB to ride the bench?

No question, there are still incentives for even top programs to cheat.

E.g., this is pure speculation, but one might wonder why Louisville basketball has been caught cheating so much in recent years, when their basketball program is both currently and historically elite, so naturally attracts good talent?

The answer could be a Calipari effect. Louisville has always benchmarked itself versus Kentucky, and Cal bringing in loads of top recruits the past 6-7 years puts intensive pressure on Louisville to keep up.

Ever wonder whey some elite programs get the plethora of 5** athletes-they cheat. Yes some are naturally drawn to success, but it is simply just not feasible to grab 5* after 5* after 5*. Too many other good programs and believe it or not academic programs that would draw in kids to another school of their choice and parent influence.

Don't fool yourself regarding Duke or Kentucky basketball, or even Alabama football.

Certain schools make the payment on the backend with a guaranteed job from an alum or other perks and favors. When it becomes known that the particular school can and will make the payment on the backend, they have an advantage over those that have to involve upfront cash. $50K up front or Duke alum investors backing you in a few years - which is the better deal? However, all the coaches know what is going on and to a certain degree have no control other than to refuse any kid that is tied to the money train.

It's like the myth of the "Carolina Way". That was a false narrative, told for so long and swallowed hook line and sinker by vast number of folks, but it's false. The only "Carolina Ways" occur at an Ivy League school. I commend UNC for looking after their legacies and the kids they use - it's the responsible thing to do.

Anyone thinking there are angels out there in the P-5 is naïve.

Speaking of being paid on the backend, I've heard rumors that agents will get paid their percentage of a players contract then turn around and give that player a huge kickback. IRS is happy the player makes out better than he would and the agent gets even more clients. AAU should be the next shoe to drop.

Quote:Alaa Abdelnaby‏Verified account @alaatweets 7h7 hours ago
More
This NCAA scandal is about a guy who was caught giving UNC players $ in '15 and then turned informant for FBI. He then went to other schools

and Dickie V has been ranting on about Bagley and Duke. Makes you wonder if he knows something.

(09-28-2017 03:23 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Sources: Adidas Was Trying To Steer Nation's #1 Overall Basketball Recruit To Kansas

https://www.chatsports.com/kansas-jayhaw...nsas-35608

So, file this under the "people who live in glass houses" category... I noticed the writer of that piece is...

Quote:Brian Rauf is the Lead Columnist for Chat Sports covering the NBA and NFL, along with college basketball, college football and MLB. He is from Cary, NC and is a proud graduate of the University of South Carolina and big Frank Martin supporter. Brian is a Charlotte Hornets, Carolina Panthers, and Duke Blue Devils fan, along with the Gamecocks, of course.

He might be interested in this:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...vans-cause

Quote:Oklahoma State has fired associate head coach Lamont Evans, who was one of 10 people arrested earlier this week as part of the FBI's investigation into college basketball bribery and corruption.

Quote:Evans joined Oklahoma State's staff before the 2016-17 season and worked for Brad Underwood, who left after the season for Illinois and was replaced by assistant Mike Boynton Jr. Evans worked at South Carolina from 2012 to 2016.