The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-17-2017 03:08 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 03:01 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 12:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.

Yes you are afar.

Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.

Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.

"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses

No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game

Yeah, that is what they say when someone who is expected to start isn't.

Look, I am sure Green and Hueitt will be fine players in time, but they are freshman. I am only speaking to the fact that a lot of folks thought we were going to exceed expectation due to their arrival. That, frankly, is pretty unreasonable at our level and the fact they are not starting and Haynes is seems to confirm that, for now at least. Those guys are like most good freshman, not ready to make a massive impact on a middle of the pack CUSA team.

Two questions for you:

1. Did you (and anyone here) really expect the true freshmen to make an impact right away? I think they will provide valuable minutes as the year goes on, but you cannot deny the experience Haynes has over both of them.

2. Do you understand that it doesn't matter what the starting lineup is? Playing time > starting. Just because Green isn't a starter doesn't mean he won't log in the most minutes at the position. Just because he is starting doesn't automatically mean the staff thinks Haynes is better than Green.

Im not shocked at all that Haynes would be the starter at the beginning of the season. The guy has years of collegiate experience and is rather talented. I think Green will be more talented in the long run, and maybe even the short run, but he's a freshman with zero collegiate game experience. Im not concerned at all about Haynes getting the nod early on. We'll see who's getting more minutes in February. I won't be shocked if it is Green by that time either.

(10-18-2017 08:12 AM)monarx Wrote:  Im not shocked at all that Haynes would be the starter at the beginning of the season. The guy has years of collegiate experience and is rather talented. I think Green will be more talented in the long run, and maybe even the short run, but he's a freshman with zero collegiate game experience. Im not concerned at all about Haynes getting the nod early on. We'll see who's getting more minutes in February. I won't be shocked if it is Green by that time either.

I think Green would benefit more with coming off the bench vs starting right away. Just Carver did.

(10-18-2017 08:16 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:12 AM)monarx Wrote:  Im not shocked at all that Haynes would be the starter at the beginning of the season. The guy has years of collegiate experience and is rather talented. I think Green will be more talented in the long run, and maybe even the short run, but he's a freshman with zero collegiate game experience. Im not concerned at all about Haynes getting the nod early on. We'll see who's getting more minutes in February. I won't be shocked if it is Green by that time either.

I think Green would benefit more with coming off the bench vs starting right away. Just Carver did.

Carver is not good enough to start. That is why he doesn't start.

(10-18-2017 06:15 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 03:08 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 03:01 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  Yes you are afar.

Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.

Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.

"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses

No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game

Yeah, that is what they say when someone who is expected to start isn't.

Look, I am sure Green and Hueitt will be fine players in time, but they are freshman. I am only speaking to the fact that a lot of folks thought we were going to exceed expectation due to their arrival. That, frankly, is pretty unreasonable at our level and the fact they are not starting and Haynes is seems to confirm that, for now at least. Those guys are like most good freshman, not ready to make a massive impact on a middle of the pack CUSA team.

Two questions for you:

1. Did you (and anyone here) really expect the true freshmen to make an impact right away? I think they will provide valuable minutes as the year goes on, but you cannot deny the experience Haynes has over both of them.

2. Do you understand that it doesn't matter what the starting lineup is? Playing time > starting. Just because Green isn't a starter doesn't mean he won't log in the most minutes at the position. Just because he is starting doesn't automatically mean the staff thinks Haynes is better than Green.

1. Yes, I did, and do. On a team that had no really good shooters a year ago, I expect someone of Hueitt's caliber to make an impact this season by stretching the defense and opening up somethings inside for Trey and Brandan.

2. It's fine if he comes off the bench as far as I'm concerned. It would be great to see he and Haynes split PT right down the middle. To me that would say a lot about how much Haynes has improved.

3. I'm not an eternal optimist, but I believe we're in for a pleasantly surprising season. I'm sad about Kah, McClinton. Could have used both of them.

Sounds to me like a much bigger concern regarding this team than who is the better player between Haynes and Green is the lack of adequate size and depth inside. An illness, injury, disiplinary action, foul trouble, or games missed due to something like attending a funeral by either Brandan or Porter all put the team in a much weaker condition than they should be.

(10-18-2017 06:15 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 03:08 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 03:01 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  Yes you are afar.

Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.

Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.

"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses

No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game

Yeah, that is what they say when someone who is expected to start isn't.

Look, I am sure Green and Hueitt will be fine players in time, but they are freshman. I am only speaking to the fact that a lot of folks thought we were going to exceed expectation due to their arrival. That, frankly, is pretty unreasonable at our level and the fact they are not starting and Haynes is seems to confirm that, for now at least. Those guys are like most good freshman, not ready to make a massive impact on a middle of the pack CUSA team.

Two questions for you:

1. Did you (and anyone here) really expect the true freshmen to make an impact right away? I think they will provide valuable minutes as the year goes on, but you cannot deny the experience Haynes has over both of them.

2. Do you understand that it doesn't matter what the starting lineup is? Playing time > starting. Just because Green isn't a starter doesn't mean he won't log in the most minutes at the position. Just because he is starting doesn't automatically mean the staff thinks Haynes is better than Green.

1. No, I didn't. Yes, many have staked their hopes on this season on Hueitt and Green.

2. Again, this is what they say about guys who don't crack the starting lineup, and frankly its just dumb coach speak that you only hear in college basketball when someone who was expected to be good enough to start doesn't earn the job. You start your 5 best players... and since someone is bound to say it... No, I don't think Talley was one of our 5 best players last year.

(10-18-2017 08:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:16 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:12 AM)monarx Wrote:  Im not shocked at all that Haynes would be the starter at the beginning of the season. The guy has years of collegiate experience and is rather talented. I think Green will be more talented in the long run, and maybe even the short run, but he's a freshman with zero collegiate game experience. Im not concerned at all about Haynes getting the nod early on. We'll see who's getting more minutes in February. I won't be shocked if it is Green by that time either.

I think Green would benefit more with coming off the bench vs starting right away. Just Carver did.

Carver is not good enough to start. That is why he doesn't start.

Yes sorry didnt mean to suggest that now he is starting but my point was that he is young and coming off the bench helps you develop. Starting to young can be tough. Look at our QB situation

(10-18-2017 08:45 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 06:15 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 03:08 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 03:01 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.

"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses

No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game

Yeah, that is what they say when someone who is expected to start isn't.

Look, I am sure Green and Hueitt will be fine players in time, but they are freshman. I am only speaking to the fact that a lot of folks thought we were going to exceed expectation due to their arrival. That, frankly, is pretty unreasonable at our level and the fact they are not starting and Haynes is seems to confirm that, for now at least. Those guys are like most good freshman, not ready to make a massive impact on a middle of the pack CUSA team.

Two questions for you:

1. Did you (and anyone here) really expect the true freshmen to make an impact right away? I think they will provide valuable minutes as the year goes on, but you cannot deny the experience Haynes has over both of them.

2. Do you understand that it doesn't matter what the starting lineup is? Playing time > starting. Just because Green isn't a starter doesn't mean he won't log in the most minutes at the position. Just because he is starting doesn't automatically mean the staff thinks Haynes is better than Green.

1. No, I didn't. Yes, many have staked their hopes on this season on Hueitt and Green.

2. Again, this is what they say about guys who don't crack the starting lineup, and frankly its just dumb coach speak that you only hear in college basketball when someone who was expected to be good enough to start doesn't earn the job. You start your 5 best players... and since someone is bound to say it... No, I don't think Talley was one of our 5 best players last year.

You overstate your case. It's possible for Green, Hueitt, Goodwin all to have an impact this season (or maybe 2 of them) and not be expected to carry the team's fortunes on their backs. We do have other players.

(10-18-2017 08:42 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Sounds to me like a much bigger concern regarding this team than who is the better player between Haynes and Green is the lack of adequate size and depth inside. An illness, injury, disiplinary action, foul trouble, or games missed due to something like attending a funeral by either Brandan or Porter all put the team in a much weaker condition than they should be.

Hence my remark about Kah and McClinton. With those two, we're probably where we should be up front as far as interior depth.

(10-18-2017 08:47 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:16 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:12 AM)monarx Wrote:  Im not shocked at all that Haynes would be the starter at the beginning of the season. The guy has years of collegiate experience and is rather talented. I think Green will be more talented in the long run, and maybe even the short run, but he's a freshman with zero collegiate game experience. Im not concerned at all about Haynes getting the nod early on. We'll see who's getting more minutes in February. I won't be shocked if it is Green by that time either.

I think Green would benefit more with coming off the bench vs starting right away. Just Carver did.

Carver is not good enough to start. That is why he doesn't start.

Yes sorry didnt mean to suggest that now he is starting but my point was that he is young and coming off the bench helps you develop. Starting to young can be tough. Look at our QB situation

I don't think SW's issue is his age. It is that he is not yet good enough. I think he will be one of our favorite Monarchs by the end, but right now, he needs to develop his skills more. If his skills were farther, he would be just fine starting regardless of his age.

Again, my intention is not to say that Green, Hueitt, Godwin are not as good as advertised, but rather that this year is not looking very good if those guys are not ready out of the gate to supplant players that were leaving the program because they were not good enough to get minutes.

(10-18-2017 08:52 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:42 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Sounds to me like a much bigger concern regarding this team than who is the better player between Haynes and Green is the lack of adequate size and depth inside. An illness, injury, disiplinary action, foul trouble, or games missed due to something like attending a funeral by either Brandan or Porter all put the team in a much weaker condition than they should be.

Hence my remark about Kah and McClinton. With those two, we're probably where we should be up front as far as interior depth.

Has anyone heard if McClinton will be applying for an extra year of eligibility after his injury? I can't remember if he was a 4th year or 5th year grad transfer. If he was a 5th year he may be done.

(10-18-2017 08:52 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:47 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:16 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:12 AM)monarx Wrote:  Im not shocked at all that Haynes would be the starter at the beginning of the season. The guy has years of collegiate experience and is rather talented. I think Green will be more talented in the long run, and maybe even the short run, but he's a freshman with zero collegiate game experience. Im not concerned at all about Haynes getting the nod early on. We'll see who's getting more minutes in February. I won't be shocked if it is Green by that time either.

I think Green would benefit more with coming off the bench vs starting right away. Just Carver did.

Carver is not good enough to start. That is why he doesn't start.

Yes sorry didnt mean to suggest that now he is starting but my point was that he is young and coming off the bench helps you develop. Starting to young can be tough. Look at our QB situation

I don't think SW's issue is his age. It is that he is not yet good enough. I think he will be one of our favorite Monarchs by the end, but right now, he needs to develop his skills more. If his skills were farther, he would be just fine starting regardless of his age.

Again, my intention is not to say that Green, Hueitt, Godwin are not as good as advertised, but rather that this year is not looking very good if those guys are not ready out of the gate to supplant players that were leaving the program because they were not good enough to get minutes.

Yes, usually your skills are not as good when you are younger because you have not has as much time to develop them. Coming off the bench helps with this

Maybe it’s not about Green at all. Haynes showed a propensity to jack up shots when he was in the game last year. Maybe Jones is hoping that Randy will feel less pressure to get his shots, if he’s in the game with the other starters. This, I believe would allow Randy to get more natural shots for him, particularly on the break.

(10-18-2017 09:15 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Maybe it’s not about Green at all. Haynes showed a propensity to jack up shots when he was in the game last year. Maybe Jones is hoping that Randy will feel less pressure to get his shots, if he’s in the game with the other starters. This, I believe would allow Randy to get more natural shots for him, particularly on the break.

Good comment.

Expanding on that, it may also be a statement to Randy H. and to the rest of the team that we are looking for him to be a defensive stud first (ala Jordan Baker), and to his offensive skill set only second. Green, who may be a slightly better offensive option, is then available to come in once the defensive tone for the game has been set.

I know that suggestion might irk many on this board, who are far more knowledgeable than me, but (for what little it is worth) I have no problem with it.

Can't wait for this season to start.

(10-18-2017 08:52 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:47 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:16 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:12 AM)monarx Wrote:  Im not shocked at all that Haynes would be the starter at the beginning of the season. The guy has years of collegiate experience and is rather talented. I think Green will be more talented in the long run, and maybe even the short run, but he's a freshman with zero collegiate game experience. Im not concerned at all about Haynes getting the nod early on. We'll see who's getting more minutes in February. I won't be shocked if it is Green by that time either.

I think Green would benefit more with coming off the bench vs starting right away. Just Carver did.

Carver is not good enough to start. That is why he doesn't start.

Yes sorry didnt mean to suggest that now he is starting but my point was that he is young and coming off the bench helps you develop. Starting to young can be tough. Look at our QB situation

I don't think SW's issue is his age. It is that he is not yet good enough. I think he will be one of our favorite Monarchs by the end, but right now, he needs to develop his skills more. If his skills were farther, he would be just fine starting regardless of his age.

Again, my intention is not to say that Green, Hueitt, Godwin are not as good as advertised, but rather that this year is not looking very good if those guys are not ready out of the gate to supplant players that were leaving the program because they were not good enough to get minutes.

Players do improve and until we see what type of improvement Haynes "may" have made, why are we getting our panties in a wad?

'cause that's what we do here. Sometimes I get the feeling a great many posters don't really like sports, or ODU for that matter. They just like to ***** and argue, and ***** some more

(10-18-2017 08:54 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:52 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:47 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 08:16 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  I think Green would benefit more with coming off the bench vs starting right away. Just Carver did.

Carver is not good enough to start. That is why he doesn't start.

Yes sorry didnt mean to suggest that now he is starting but my point was that he is young and coming off the bench helps you develop. Starting to young can be tough. Look at our QB situation

I don't think SW's issue is his age. It is that he is not yet good enough. I think he will be one of our favorite Monarchs by the end, but right now, he needs to develop his skills more. If his skills were farther, he would be just fine starting regardless of his age.

Again, my intention is not to say that Green, Hueitt, Godwin are not as good as advertised, but rather that this year is not looking very good if those guys are not ready out of the gate to supplant players that were leaving the program because they were not good enough to get minutes.

Yes, usually your skills are not as good when you are younger because you have not has as much time to develop them. Coming off the bench helps with this

That is my entire point. Folks were counting on the freshmen being the exceedingly rare player that is ready to start and make a big impact as freshmen. The fact that Haynes is ahead of them, makes that doubtful

Anyone expecting big things from the freshman are asking for punishment. Its rare that it occurs and they are clearly 5th options at best (Caver, Stith, Stith, Porter). The freshman will be complimentary players.

Hueitt will be an impact player on offensive, that I have no doubt. But his current problem is that he is not on par with our average defenders, much as least our top 7 defenders. That and he needs to develop his offensive skill set when he doesn't have the ball. I'm confident he'll get it, and will contribute this season.

Regardless, I always find it interesting when the topic of starting vs. coming off the bench. I won't start the debate on the psychological components on players whether they're better starting or not. As we saw that Talley was better coming off the bench. We'll most likely only rotate 8-9 guys on average, barring any issues. With that said, we'll see who'll be making it in the rotation to make quality contributions, regardless of starts.