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Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
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Post: #1
Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
http://lrtrojans.com/sports/2017/7/11/fo...study.aspx

There are three types of studies.

1. School wants to add and hires someone to prove they are right to do it.

2. School doesn't want to add and hires someone to prove it is a bad idea.

3. School is getting some gruff about needing to add it, and they want someone to price tag on it to see where the chips may fall.

Reality is UALR sponsors 14 sports and only awards the NCAA limit of scholarships in Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball, Baseball, and Women's Volleyball.

They would have to award all allowed aid in the other 10 sports plus two more sports in order to be FBS.
07-12-2017 10:40 AM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Just an added tidbit.
Per state figures, UALR spends $3 million less on athletic scholarships than AState and AState can only award 203 FTE's, FBS membership requires 200.
07-12-2017 10:43 AM
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ValleyBoy Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
UALR is only going to have to pay 1/3 of the cost of the feasibility study. The City of Little Rock, and the Arkansas Department of Parks and Tourism will pay the other 2/3 of the cost for the feasibility study.
07-12-2017 10:46 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
I think it's the city and the stadium that are pushing this, more than UALR is. Razorbacks aren't going to play one game in LR anymore, correct?

If it somehow went through, might be MO St's ticket out of the, now quite lonely, MVC.
07-12-2017 10:56 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
PS - UALR would not be required to add women's sports to equal out scholarships with football. That's a very common misunderstanding of title IX. Rather, it would have to make sure that female participation in varsity rosters balances out the huge influx of male participants from the football team. That's what title IX is about, participation.
07-12-2017 10:58 AM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-12-2017 10:58 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  PS - UALR would not be required to add women's sports to equal out scholarships with football. That's a very common misunderstanding of title IX. Rather, it would have to make sure that female participation in varsity rosters balances out the huge influx of male participants from the football team. That's what title IX is about, participation.

They have to add SOMETHING in addition to football because FBS requires 16 sports and they have 14.

They will have to fully fund scholarships in those sports. UALR currently is at the NCAA limit for scholarships in mens and womens hoops, baseball and volleyball. The other ten sports are not fully funded.

FBS requires awarding 200 scholarships.

UALR's student athletic fee is $21 per hour, AState's is $19, yet they spend $3 million less on scholarships.
07-12-2017 11:54 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Thanks, yes the NCAA has several minimum requirements for being FBS over and beyond being DI that some don't realize ...
07-12-2017 12:09 PM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-12-2017 10:46 AM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  UALR is only going to have to pay 1/3 of the cost of the feasibility study. The City of Little Rock, and the Arkansas Department of Parks and Tourism will pay the other 2/3 of the cost for the feasibility study.

City owns the parking. Without events. No revenue.
Parks and Tourism owns the stadium. Without events. No revenue.

Here's the thing. Little Rock sucks as a sports town. Hogs have struggled to sell out games of late, they were discounting tickets for freaking Georgia, despite it being smaller than Razorback Stadium,

Around 2008 or so I was involved in an effort to bring a bowl to Little Rock run by the guy who did the Detroit game. Met with business leaders all over town and got laughed out of the room.

When the Montgomery game was approved, LR was actually ahead of them and had a deal with MAC and Sun Belt. The MAC pulled out because LR didn't want to deal with ESPN because they didn't like the available dates. LR also had a larger proposed budget for overhead than Montgomery by a significant margin without the sponsorship to cover the difference (they did have a title sponsor lined up) so MAC pulled out of the deal.

Little Rock has the resources to support FBS, but has shown no signs that they intend to do so.
07-12-2017 12:13 PM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
An example of city's "commitment" to football.

When AState scheduled Mizzou in Jonesboro, St Louis offered to pay AState $1.5 million to move the game. Kansas City offered to pay just shy of $2 million.

Little Rock offered a 50% discount on stadium rental, they would only charge $7500 and keep all the parking and concessions. AState obviously wasted no time entertaining that offer.
07-12-2017 12:16 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
UALR to me seems more suited for the Southland than Sun Belt.
07-12-2017 12:41 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
It's driven by the City of Little Rock over concerns about losing Arkansas' annual games

UALR is 60% women, 40% men (USN&WR, 59% in Forbes) -- UALR has removed this ratio from their website. So adding 85 Football scholarships would require 124 women's sports scholarships to be added. This high female to male ratio is typical of a liberal arts school, which UALR is.

It is also a commuter school, which means it would rely more than usual for a college on townees. There are only 9,575 undergraduates, so a fee hike to pay for football would be quite substantial ($300 is required to raise $3m, which is probably the minimum). Capitol costs would require a serious fund raising campaign, might well compete with other school projects.

I am assuming students will have no say in this. With 60% women, who are largely commuting, it seems extremely unlikely it could ever get a campus vote in favor. A poor candidate for football

But here is the real reason, the games played in Little Rock War Memorial Stadium are dwindling. Used to be Louisiana Monroe and LSU would have fans come to Little Rock and stay in town one year and Mississippi State in other years. But those days are done. Georgia was the last SEC game there in 2014. Future just seems to be a FCS school to ride out the end of the contract.

Arkansas, like most P5 schools, realizes an extra $3M with each home game in Fayetteville.This is what killed the Colorado State vs Colorado game. The FCS games have little value which is why Little Rock gets them. Pulling the lucrative LSU and Miss St games back to Fayetteville. They thew a bone of Georgia in 2014 to Little Rock, but the loss of an SEC game has got to be hurting Little Rock's hotels and restaurants.

2008
Sep 6: ULM vs Arkansas
Nov 28: LSU vs Arkansas (SEC)
2009
Sep 5: Missouri State vs Arkansas
Nov 21: Mississippi State vs Arkansas (SEC)
2010
Sep 11: ULM vs Arkansas
Nov 27: LSU vs Arkansas (SEC)
2011
Sep 10: New Mexico vs Arkansas
Nov 19: Mississippi State vs Arkansas (SEC)
2012
Sep 8: ULM vs Arkansas
Nov 23: LSU vs Arkansas (SEC)
2013
Sep 8: Samford vs Arkansas
Nov 23: Mississippi State vs Arkansas (SEC)


2014
Oct 18: Georgia vs Arkansas (SEC)
2015
Sep 12: Toledo vs Arkansas
2016
Oct 1: Alcorn State vs Arkansas
2017
Aug 31: Florida A&M vs Arkansas
2018
NO GAMES SCHEDULED
2019
Sep 14: Portland State vs Arkansas // location not settled, may be in Fayetteville

2020 onward no games in Little Rock

The City is pushing the school, but the math doesn't work.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 01:04 PM by Stugray2.)
07-12-2017 12:52 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
"... would require 124 women's scholarships to be added."

Categorically FALSE. There is no room for debate, the letter of the law is participation.


One day, I'll have driven this point home on this board. One day ...
07-12-2017 12:59 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Well you have to add 125 women's D-I sports slots. Or cut a number of men's to bring the ratio to 60-40.

But most courts and states consider financial support as the measure of equality. The concept of available but not funded has largely died in the US with the bankrupt "Separate but Equal" Jim Crow laws.

....

This is of course a misdirection on your part to try and distract from the main point of my post, that the City of Little Rock is desperate to replace the loss of use of War Memorial. But the school of UALR, with fewer than 4,000 male undergrads (most commuters) is a school that really cannot support football. And it is a huge stretch to think War Memorial could ever be half full (well maybe one or two games the initial year or two). The days of big SEC fan bases coming to town are pretty much a thing of the past.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 01:09 PM by Stugray2.)
07-12-2017 01:04 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
No they don't consider that the measure. The measure is spelled out exactly by the law itself, it gives three prongs that you can test to meet compliance, and none of them have anything to do with scholarships!

I'm not advocating to cut women's scholarships, either. Also not claiming UALR wouldn't add women's scholarships.


But you're exactly correct that, if participation was balanced now, they'd need to add women's participants or cut men's participants in other sports.
07-12-2017 01:10 PM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Here's UALR's Title IX issue.

Few years ago they cut women's tennis.

The safe harbor of increasing opportunities for women isn't going to stretch very far if they add 105 male roster spots when the last act was cutting opportunities for women.
07-12-2017 03:09 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Here would be my simple argument if I was defending UALR that had added FBS football and let's say added back women's tennis:

is UALR really disparaging female interests and abilities in athletics any "more" than Arkansas St?? We shouldn't be looking at this like it's walking on water. Many other schools have made it work -- and by work, I mean haven't been named in a title IX lawsuit.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 03:42 PM by MplsBison.)
07-12-2017 03:42 PM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
I remember that one year when Louisiana-Monroe shocked a top 10 Arkansas team in Little Rock.

Little Rock is a historic Southern city with an antique stadium. It just feels right for the city to house either a bowl or an FBS team.

I hope the city gets its act together and ends up with UALR/Sun Belt football.
07-12-2017 04:02 PM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
(07-12-2017 03:42 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Here would be my simple argument if I was defending UALR that had added FBS football and let's say added back women's tennis:

is UALR really disparaging female interests and abilities in athletics any "more" than Arkansas St?? We shouldn't be looking at this like it's walking on water. Many other schools have made it work -- and by work, I mean haven't been named in a title IX lawsuit.

Then put it to a vote of the Students to pass a $10 per unit Student Intercollegiate Athletics Fee

If the women back it, fine. It not you shouldn't have football.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2017 04:11 PM by Stugray2.)
07-12-2017 04:11 PM
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Little Rock just does not support sports unless it is UAF and that support is lukewarm. There is very little FBS or FCS football talent coming out of LR and the one JC program in the State is awful. Now, ASU recruits largely out of Arkansas and so does UAF but it would be hard to supplement the roster with Arkansans and without a stadium on campus and top notch facilities they might end up competing with UCA for recruits.

Even with a stadium already available, the funds required for the scholarships (not a "real" direct cost but still), salaries, Stipends, travel, etc. are just not going to be there unless there is a Boone Pickens type willing to step in.
07-12-2017 04:14 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Arkansas Little Rock Football / Marching Band Study
Like Stu said, that would be funded by students. If the students vote for a new fee to pay for football, which includes all those commuters and female students, then so be it.
07-12-2017 04:52 PM
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