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Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
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Ohio Poly Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
The nature of the story.

When one reads the story of the great flood in the book of Genesis, one is struck by the matter-of-fact style of the narrative. While it definitely has the larger-than-life flavor typical of legends, the reader would not suspect that he or she is dealing with the bizarre impossibilities we have detailed above. After all, the ancient Hebrews lived on a small, disc-shaped world with a dome overhead and waters above and below. There were only a few hundred known animals, and subjects such as ecology, genetics, and stratigraphy were not even imagined. The deluge was a mighty act of God, to be sure, but nothing that the ancient Hebrews would have found too extraordinary.
When, however, this same story is brought into the twentieth century and insisted upon as a literal account of historical events, a considerable change is observed. No longer a simple folk tale, it has become a surrealistic saga of fantastic improbabilities. Events which seem relatively straightforward at first glance—building a boat, gathering animals, releasing them afterwards—become a caricature of real life. The animals themselves are so unlike any others that they may as well have come from another planet; genetic Frankensteins with completely unnatural social, reproductive, and dietary behavior, they survived incredible hazards yet remained amazingly hardy and fecund.

In fact, these sixty-eight verses of Scripture, when interpreted literally, are crammed with more miracles than any comparable piece of literature anywhere on earth—miracles that are often pointlessly complicated and unedifying. Building one large ship of wood rather than many small ones, landing it on a volcano instead of a plain, preserving all five varieties of venereal disease while permitting thousands of species to become extinct—these examples plus more add up to a thoroughly senseless level of supernaturalism. If there was ever a situation in which Hume's distinction between the credibility of miracles and the credibility of miracle-tellers applies, this is it.

How can we account for this transformation? Put simply, the tale of the ark grows taller in inverse proportion to the advance of science. Two centuries ago, when biology and geology were in their infancy, the theory of a worldwide flood as a major event in the earth's physical history seemed perfectly plausible and, in fact, was advocated by various scientists.

- page 37 -
But as geology progressed and as evolution gradually achieved a position of fundamental importance, the concepts of biblical literalists were shown to be untenable and were falsified. At the same time, the disciplines of biblical criticism, comparative religion, and archaeology uncovered the true origins of these stories and myths and showed that they were a natural part of the religious development of the Near East.
07-09-2017 08:53 AM
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LeFlâneur Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
I just checked and found that the Q'uarm does recognize Noah and the flood. Therefore, it is not an acceptable subject for debate.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 09:34 AM by LeFlâneur.)
07-09-2017 09:33 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-09-2017 09:33 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  I just checked and found that the Q'uarm does recognize Noah and the flood. Therefore, it is not an acceptable subject for debate.

noah is embedded in Islam....he's one of their major prophets....

it only becomes a problem when the radicals garner all the news and attention.....there are sheep everywhere.....it doesn't matter what the 'faith' is when a 'radical' gains strength...

I still contend that christianity has served humanity very successfully over 2 millennia....every one of any faith would've killed me on the spot back in those days 03-wink

the romans got that one right long term....more specifically, the Flavian dynasty....even though Titus was responsible for the "Exile" and the destruction of jerusalem....that was the game changer that allowed christianity to blossom moving forward
07-09-2017 10:38 AM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-07-2017 03:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Eric, at the risk of derailing the thread I'll simply state that significant portions of the OT at least have to be pushed into the allegory/legend category in order for Christianity to remain viable for the long term. Even the ancients understood this. Population numbers, ages of great people and origin stories were not meant to be taken literally.

I can believe noah built an ark...Probably no where as big as is biblically reported. I can believe he gathered as many animals on it that he could find...probably within his close vicinity. I don't buy for a second Noah built a massive ship that could house two of every living creature on earth on it. IMO...That does not make the story less important. There are several other relaying of historical events in the Bible that I believe are generally accurate..but..I don't take them literally either. I don't see it as a big deal personally.
07-09-2017 01:02 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #105
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-09-2017 01:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 03:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Eric, at the risk of derailing the thread I'll simply state that significant portions of the OT at least have to be pushed into the allegory/legend category in order for Christianity to remain viable for the long term. Even the ancients understood this. Population numbers, ages of great people and origin stories were not meant to be taken literally.

I can believe noah built an ark...Probably no where as big as is biblically reported. I can believe he gathered as many animals on it that he could find...probably within his close vicinity. I don't buy for a second Noah built a massive ship that could house two of every living creature on earth on it. IMO...That does not make the story less important. There are several other relaying of historical events in the Bible that I believe are generally accurate..but..I don't take them literally either. I don't see it as a big deal personally.


Well the text does not say he housed 2 of every animal of the planet. (Just so you know). There is a MAJOR difference between 2 of every KIND and 2 of every animal.

Of course, if telling Noah to build a boat and loading it up with animals is just too much to believe in, then I doubt you could also believe that YHWH created the heavens and the earth, or that Christ rose from the dead on the 3rd day.

Believing in one over the other makes no sense at all imo.
07-09-2017 01:37 PM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
aren't you christians supposed to have your faith tested? i suggest going gay on occasion. the worst that could happen is you become humbled in front of the eyes of the lord.
07-09-2017 02:39 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-09-2017 01:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 03:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Eric, at the risk of derailing the thread I'll simply state that significant portions of the OT at least have to be pushed into the allegory/legend category in order for Christianity to remain viable for the long term. Even the ancients understood this. Population numbers, ages of great people and origin stories were not meant to be taken literally.

I can believe noah built an ark...Probably no where as big as is biblically reported. I can believe he gathered as many animals on it that he could find...probably within his close vicinity. I don't buy for a second Noah built a massive ship that could house two of every living creature on earth on it. IMO...That does not make the story less important. There are several other relaying of historical events in the Bible that I believe are generally accurate..but..I don't take them literally either. I don't see it as a big deal personally.

Seven pairs of each kind clean animal came to Noah, as animals were not fearful then and were not carnivores. Winter and summer didn't exist either. The world was entirely different then, something unrecognizable by science. But yet those Holy texts are ignored. Only after the flood were animals given to man to eat, as a divine plan of communion with us eating the Body and Blood of our Savior, Christ.
07-09-2017 03:03 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-09-2017 02:39 PM)Lush Wrote:  aren't you christians supposed to have your faith tested? i suggest going gay on occasion. the worst that could happen is you become humbled in front of the eyes of the lord.

In my experience, Christians with ssa have remarkable spiritual gifts. You should come over to the light.
07-09-2017 03:07 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #109
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-09-2017 02:39 PM)Lush Wrote:  aren't you christians supposed to have your faith tested?


A Christians faith is tested daily as they pick up their cross and follow Yeshua.

John 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 Peter 1:7
So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


James 1:12

Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

James 1:3-4
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 04:00 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
07-09-2017 03:39 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-09-2017 02:39 PM)Lush Wrote:  aren't you christians supposed to have your faith tested? i suggest going gay on occasion. the worst that could happen is you become humbled in front of the eyes of the lord.

Why? Are you running out of gay lovers?

No thanks, you can test yourself all you want.
07-09-2017 04:03 PM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-09-2017 03:39 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 02:39 PM)Lush Wrote:  aren't you christians supposed to have your faith tested?


A Christians faith is tested daily as they pick up their cross and follow Yeshua.

John 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 Peter 1:7
So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


James 1:12

Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

James 1:3-4
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

i'm talking about throwing yourself into a test. showing your mettle. find your wilderness, jump in
07-10-2017 02:49 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-07-2017 10:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:53 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  The Noah's flood story is not based in reality.

link?

Every textbook and research paper dealing with biology, genetics, archaeology and geology for starters.

That actually doesn't count as a link.
07-10-2017 03:06 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-07-2017 07:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:45 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:17 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

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Actually the text says specifically much of the water came from underground, which is why we have a giant rip across the entire earths crust like a baseball seam now pushing all the tectonic plates away from it.

I'm just saying, the text doesn't say it just rained and flooded the whole earth. That is simply not true.
Genesis 6:17 says the whole earth will be flooded.

Genesis 1:6-7 is conveniently neglected in this whole conversation. A dome of water separate from the seas and over the oceans is not what we see today. A dome of water covering the earth would bring it great protection from cosmic rays. The world wouldn't be exposed to radiation at nearly the level it is now. All forms of radioactive dating are based on the cosmic ray bombarding us has been going on for eons. The Bible says that isn't true. Rainbows didn't exist before the time of Noah, because it didn't rain. A rainbow would have been a magnificent spectacle for Noahs eyes when he saw his first one. The world cataclysmically changed in Noah's day, but we don't take God's Word for it. The flood was a way the world was baptized to bring it redemption, but only believers were baptized.



Maybe there was a misunderstanding, but I was absolutely saying the whole earth was flooded. The water come from above and below.

I was saying it didn't just rain the we whole earth was flooded, which was the original suggestion here from stink.

Water came from the deep, water came from the heavens. I suspect there was a water canopy above as well and have for many years. We can also clearly see the seam of the earths crust.

There is scientific evidence that the ocean were much shallower, and suddenly received an enormous new amount of water. The canopy, which doesnt exist as a liquid form now, that formerly covered the earth was the source of that new water.

The world used to be tropical worldwide. That was possible only because of the canopy that kept radiative heat in at the poles, even when those regions didn't get light for months.

The pre-Noah earth was entirely different from what is is now, a veritable paradise to conceive of, but nothing like heaven will be.

No there isn't any scientific evidence that supports what you are claiming. Nothing.

Noah's Ark is a MYTH.
01-03-2018 03:57 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
I live when people get worked up about other people’s religious beliefs.

Are people being forced to go to Arc Encounter? No? Hell I live 10 minutes from it, never been, will never go, but I’m not the least bit threatened or put out by it.
01-03-2018 04:00 PM
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GrayBeard Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
Wow, why did this resurface?
01-03-2018 04:02 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(01-03-2018 04:00 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I live when people get worked up about other people’s religious beliefs.

Are people being forced to go to Arc Encounter? No? Hell I live 10 minutes from it, never been, will never go, but I’m not the least bit threatened or put out by it.

Especially when they have to drag up a thread that's 6 months old to do so. Just shows that the offended were actively seeking something to be offended about.
01-03-2018 04:06 PM
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usmbacker Offline
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Post: #117
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-07-2017 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:53 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  The Noah's flood story is not based in reality.

link?

So now the libs here are Biblical scholars also.
01-03-2018 04:42 PM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #118
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(01-03-2018 04:42 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:53 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  The Noah's flood story is not based in reality.

link?

So now the libs here are Biblical scholars also.

Smartest people in the room. Just asked them. They'll tell you so.
01-03-2018 04:53 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #119
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(01-03-2018 04:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-03-2018 04:00 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I live when people get worked up about other people’s religious beliefs.

Are people being forced to go to Arc Encounter? No? Hell I live 10 minutes from it, never been, will never go, but I’m not the least bit threatened or put out by it.

Especially when they have to drag up a thread that's 6 months old to do so. Just shows that the offended were actively seeking something to be offended about.

after rereading this somewhat old thread, I have to admit, at least my sanity is still somewhat intact relative to consistency.....thank god 03-wink

I'll never understand the individual's choice w/o the macro side.....it is that form of malice w/o thought relative to the whole when 'they become 'unholstered'.....fighting anything within the land of 'intentional malice' in a sane world is only a self invoked spell....

04-cheers

I fully understand many of ya don't agree with many of my thoughts on this subject matter.....and that's all hunky within "faith"......

IMO, humility and respect is critical until 'if' line 3>>>>line 4 'then' becomes the only option....

IMO in relative terms, as a species we've simply reached the 'tick' trying 'unlock' the tock' as we continue to propagate and survive....

#good>bad

#1>0

all are fundamentally inherent and still a req't to survive....the day we ignore how to fight for the 'matter' is the day we die.....
01-03-2018 05:06 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #120
RE: Ark Encounter attendance lower than expected
(07-07-2017 10:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:57 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:53 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  The Noah's flood story is not based in reality.

link?

Every textbook and research paper dealing with biology, genetics, archaeology and geology for starters.

Kinda like Darwinian evolution, right?
01-03-2018 05:15 PM
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