(07-07-2017 04:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  My only other point is a clarification of the portion of my post that you quoted. My comments about God being the demiurge was a belief held by gnostics around 100 AD. The gnostics were a strange group where some incorporated Christian and Jewish beliefs while others were predominantly Platonists. There were also Platonists who were Christians but not gnostics. The bottom line is that a group of people who identified themselves as gnostics who also believed the OT and NT writings believed this. Definitely not all people did.

I understood exactly what you were saying,. I was trying to give context that even the Jews themselves did not understand a lot of this yet, so its easily understood that non Jews didn't either. After all, the entire thing is based on the Hebrew/Jewish God and Hebrew/Jewish text.

typical miko.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

I don't believe that my dreams will come true if I wish upon a star, but I still enjoy Disney World.

My inlaws visited this place, and from the pictures, it looks pretty cool. I'd check it out if I were in the area.

(07-07-2017 03:59 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Can you see the Christ that gave the sermon on the mount drowning almost every living person because he didn't like their sexual practices or what God they praised?

Noah was the last man of faith left on earth at that time.

"But I will establish My Covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark; you, your sons, your wife, and your sons wives with you." Genesis 6:18

Then God allowed the flood. This covenant and cleansing flood left behind the bloodline that would lead to the birth of Christ. God on earth.

Before the flood mankind’s depravity had reached a level that evil entirely permeated every part of his being. His wickedness was great- that is, his actions were wicked. Every imagination was evil – his mind was wholly corrupted. Every thought of his heart – his will, his desires, his emotions, his passions, had all become so sin stained that there remained nothing within them that was not evil. These people upon whom God poured out the Flood were not merely dabbling in sin here and there, everything that they were doing was an horrific abomination!

In considering why God sent the Flood, we must first realize that those living upon the Earth were completely and utterly wicked beyond the hope of changing. There were no innocent bystanders caught up in the Flood; everyone was guilty of the most deplorable sinfulness. The rebellion against God that we saw taking root in Cain and his descendants had now reached a fruition that God could not overlook.

(07-07-2017 03:59 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 03:41 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 03:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Eric, at the risk of derailing the thread I'll simply state that significant portions of the OT at least have to be pushed into the allegory/legend category in order for Christianity to remain viable for the long term. Even the ancients understood this. Population numbers, ages of great people and origin stories were not meant to be taken literally.

So we are allowed to believe a man rose form the dead on the 3rd day and later ascended into heaven, but we can't believe in Gen 1-11?

That is a total contradiction in every way

Obviously none of this applies to you because you aren't a believer.

Jesus lived and taught everything on the basis of a LITERAL Genesis 1-11. How can one be a believer in Him and His Resurrection, but reject the foundation of everything He said and believed in?

You don't grasp the depth of this. If Genesis 1-11 is NOT literally true, then there is NO NEED for a Savior or for Jesus at all. There is nothing for Him to fulfill and NO ONE needs any salvation or redemption to God in any way, shape or from.

Can you see the Christ that gave the sermon on the mount drowning almost every living person because he didn't like their sexual practices or what God they praised?

Yes.

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"Those heathens deserve genocide, worship me how I want you to or I'll murder you and your entire family" said the loving and merciful God.

Come on down to the ark exhibit where you can see a recreation of the cages that the animals our god didn't drown without remorse most certainly used!

How is this not more popular? Fun for all ages!

(07-07-2017 06:03 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  "Those heathens deserve genocide, worship me how I want you to or I'll murder you and your entire family" said the loving and merciful God.

Come on down to the ark exhibit where you can see a recreation of the cages that the animals our god didn't drown without remorse most certainly used!

How is this not more popular? Fun for all ages!

Genesis 6:5
And YHWH saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6:11-13
11 The earth also was corrupt before YHWH, and the earth was filled with violence.

12 And YHWH looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And YHWH said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.



Don't worry my friend, you will get your chance to discuss it with Him face to face.

good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

++++++++++++++++

IMO, these are the stories that HELPED our species survive w/o continuing to wage daily battle on EVERY land mass....the ragheads still haven't figured it out.....

christianity is all about how we CAN coexist moving forward....creating christianity was pure genius by the romans....there's a reason god bless america, in god we trust, etc, is still embedded in our culture and mirrors their (loosely) system of gubberment....they examined both hedonism and control mechanics....

parables, fables, and campfire suches.....they were necessary back then.....those folks didn't have the dipshite internutzos....

I would like to see the teachings evolve at this point.....that's where most fall face first in quicksand as humanity exponentially evolves via biotech....

hence, #geneticengineering (darwinism) will always win.....same thingy, different era.....just a matter o' time....

buh-bye to having a chance and an open mind.....such are humans....such are animals....such is life....

git ya some o' that chittlin'

there's a reason Darwin, Twain, and Carlin are my faves.....

y'all can now get back to more weirdo ranting.....

(07-07-2017 03:41 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 03:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Eric, at the risk of derailing the thread I'll simply state that significant portions of the OT at least have to be pushed into the allegory/legend category in order for Christianity to remain viable for the long term. Even the ancients understood this. Population numbers, ages of great people and origin stories were not meant to be taken literally.

So we are allowed to believe a man rose form the dead on the 3rd day and later ascended into heaven, but we can't believe in Gen 1-11?

That is a total contradiction in every way

Obviously none of this applies to you because you aren't a believer.

Jesus lived and taught everything on the basis of a LITERAL Genesis 1-11. How can one be a believer in Him and His Resurrection, but reject the foundation of everything He said and believed in?

You don't grasp the depth of this. If Genesis 1-11 is NOT literally true, then there is NO NEED for a Savior or for Jesus at all. There is nothing for Him to fulfill and NO ONE needs any salvation or redemption to God in any way, shape or from.

Christ quoted OT Scripture a lot in order to legitimize it, to confirm the visions of the OT prophets about Him, and to show He was the new Covenant for mankind. I believe the Scriptures cover to cover but that is how I have been discipled in my church.

(07-07-2017 05:13 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 03:59 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Can you see the Christ that gave the sermon on the mount drowning almost every living person because he didn't like their sexual practices or what God they praised?

Yes.

Christ first came to the earth to bring the message of truth, salvation, redemption, love, forgiveness, etc. If you read the NT, he associated with the lowest of the lows in society at that time - lepers, prostitutes, lame/crippled/blind, poor, tax collectors, gentiles, women, etc. He showed that his love and forgiveness applied to all humanity no matter the sin. However, when he comes back a second time He will come with a sword and as a judge over all humanity for their sin. The nice, warm fuzzy that some folks have about Jesus will not be true at that time.

Isaiah 66:16
Revelation 19:11-16

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

++++++++++++++++


there's a reason Darwin, Twain, and Carlin are my faves.....

y'all can now get back to more weirdo ranting.....

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(07-07-2017 07:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually the text says specifically much of the water came from underground, which is why we have a giant rip across the entire earths crust like a baseball seam now pushing all the tectonic plates away from it.

You of course can believe what ever you want. I'm just saying, the text doesn't say it just rained and flooded the whole earth. That is simply not true.

(07-07-2017 07:17 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually the text says specifically much of the water came from underground, which is why we have a giant rip across the entire earths crust like a baseball seam now pushing all the tectonic plates away from it.

You of course can believe what ever you want. I'm just saying, the text doesn't say it just rained and flooded the whole earth. That is simply not true.

that's what I believe regarding the earth too. Makes sense given our geography.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(07-07-2017 06:44 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 03:41 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 03:37 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Eric, at the risk of derailing the thread I'll simply state that significant portions of the OT at least have to be pushed into the allegory/legend category in order for Christianity to remain viable for the long term. Even the ancients understood this. Population numbers, ages of great people and origin stories were not meant to be taken literally.

So we are allowed to believe a man rose form the dead on the 3rd day and later ascended into heaven, but we can't believe in Gen 1-11?

That is a total contradiction in every way

Obviously none of this applies to you because you aren't a believer.

Jesus lived and taught everything on the basis of a LITERAL Genesis 1-11. How can one be a believer in Him and His Resurrection, but reject the foundation of everything He said and believed in?

You don't grasp the depth of this. If Genesis 1-11 is NOT literally true, then there is NO NEED for a Savior or for Jesus at all. There is nothing for Him to fulfill and NO ONE needs any salvation or redemption to God in any way, shape or from.

Christ quoted OT Scripture a lot in order to legitimize it, to confirm the visions of the OT prophets about Him, and to show He was the new Covenant for mankind. I believe the Scriptures cover to cover but that is how I have been discipled in my church.

(07-07-2017 05:13 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 03:59 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Can you see the Christ that gave the sermon on the mount drowning almost every living person because he didn't like their sexual practices or what God they praised?

Yes.

Christ first came to the earth to bring the message of truth, salvation, redemption, love, forgiveness, etc. If you read the NT, he associated with the lowest of the lows in society at that time - lepers, prostitutes, lame/crippled/blind, poor, tax collectors, gentiles, women, etc. He showed that his love and forgiveness applied to all humanity no matter the sin. However, when he comes back a second time He will come with a sword and as a judge over all humanity for their sin. The nice, warm fuzzy that some folks have about Jesus will not be true at that time.

Isaiah 66:16
Revelation 19:11-16

Thats because He made grace so simple to receive the first time.

(07-07-2017 07:17 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually the text says specifically much of the water came from underground, which is why we have a giant rip across the entire earths crust like a baseball seam now pushing all the tectonic plates away from it.

I'm just saying, the text doesn't say it just rained and flooded the whole earth. That is simply not true.

Genesis 6:17 says the whole earth will be flooded.

Genesis 1:6-7 is conveniently neglected in this whole conversation. A dome of water separate from the seas and over the oceans is not what we see today. A dome of water covering the earth would bring it great protection from cosmic rays. The world wouldn't be exposed to radiation at nearly the level it is now. All forms of radioactive dating are based on the cosmic ray bombarding us has been going on for eons. The Bible says that isn't true. Rainbows didn't exist before the time of Noah, because it didn't rain. A rainbow would have been a magnificent spectacle for Noahs eyes when he saw his first one. The world cataclysmically changed in Noah's day, but we don't take God's Word for it. The flood was a way the world was baptized to bring it redemption, but only believers were baptized and the rest perished.

(07-07-2017 07:32 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:17 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually the text says specifically much of the water came from underground, which is why we have a giant rip across the entire earths crust like a baseball seam now pushing all the tectonic plates away from it.

You of course can believe what ever you want. I'm just saying, the text doesn't say it just rained and flooded the whole earth. That is simply not true.

that's what I believe regarding the earth too. Makes sense given our geography.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Lol no it doesn't. Please link your evidence of such a bold claim.

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

Your a good dude stink, you're a music enthusiast like me and I respect you. All I can say is from my perspective as a Christian, I don't believe the Creator God is bound by our laws of physics. That's where my faith comes in of course. I do see how folks can look at it and say that is impossible but the Almighty created the entire universe so flooding a tiny speck with water is no biggie for Him. To try and split the hair of how much of the earth was flooded is moot. The LORD was angry with the sinful people at that time and he flooded enough of the planet and in a time frame that only the few on the ark survived. The good news, he promised never to do it again on that scale and gave the rainbow as a symbol of this promise...

Genesis 9:8-16 (NIV)
8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

(07-07-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Genesis 6:17 says the whole earth will be flooded.

Genesis 1:6-7 is conveniently neglected in this whole conversation. A dome of water separate from the seas and over the oceans is not what we see today. A dome of water covering the earth would bring it great protection from cosmic rays. The world wouldn't be exposed to radiation at nearly the level it is now. All forms of radioactive dating are based on the cosmic ray bombarding us has been going on for eons. The Bible says that isn't true. Rainbows didn't exist before the time of Noah, because it didn't rain. A rainbow would have been a magnificent spectacle for Noahs eyes when he saw his first one. The world cataclysmically changed in Noah's day, but we don't take God's Word for it. The flood was a way the world was baptized to bring it redemption, but only believers were baptized.

I fully agree.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding, but I was absolutely saying the whole earth was flooded according to the text itself. The water come from above and below.

I was saying it didn't just rain then the whole earth was flooded, which was the original suggestion here from stink.

Water came from the deep, water came from the heavens. I suspect there was a water canopy above as well and have for many years. We can also clearly see the seam of the earths crust.

(07-07-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:17 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually the text says specifically much of the water came from underground, which is why we have a giant rip across the entire earths crust like a baseball seam now pushing all the tectonic plates away from it.

I'm just saying, the text doesn't say it just rained and flooded the whole earth. That is simply not true.

Genesis 6:17 says the whole earth will be flooded.

Genesis 1:6-7 is conveniently neglected in this whole conversation. A dome of water separate from the seas and over the oceans is not what we see today. A dome of water covering the earth would bring it great protection from cosmic rays. The world wouldn't be exposed to radiation at nearly the level it is now. All forms of radioactive dating are based on the cosmic ray bombarding us has been going on for eons. The Bible says that isn't true. Rainbows didn't exist before the time of Noah, because it didn't rain. A rainbow would have been a magnificent spectacle for Noahs eyes when he saw his first one. The world cataclysmically changed in Noah's day, but we don't take God's Word for it. The flood was a way the world was baptized to bring it redemption, but only believers were baptized and the rest perished.

(07-07-2017 07:45 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:17 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 07:11 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 06:37 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  good god people....

it would have to rain over a foot per MINUTE in a 40 day span to cover the globe in water....that in itself tells any sane person how ridiculous the story is to an educated/applied individual....lest not go into all the other bs that couldn't possibly happen relative to physics/pressure/hydro effects.....so **** all that bs....that's a given

FWIW, I dont think it was literally the entire earth. I think its more likely it was what they knew of the earth, their region.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually the text says specifically much of the water came from underground, which is why we have a giant rip across the entire earths crust like a baseball seam now pushing all the tectonic plates away from it.

I'm just saying, the text doesn't say it just rained and flooded the whole earth. That is simply not true.

Genesis 6:17 says the whole earth will be flooded.

Genesis 1:6-7 is conveniently neglected in this whole conversation. A dome of water separate from the seas and over the oceans is not what we see today. A dome of water covering the earth would bring it great protection from cosmic rays. The world wouldn't be exposed to radiation at nearly the level it is now. All forms of radioactive dating are based on the cosmic ray bombarding us has been going on for eons. The Bible says that isn't true. Rainbows didn't exist before the time of Noah, because it didn't rain. A rainbow would have been a magnificent spectacle for Noahs eyes when he saw his first one. The world cataclysmically changed in Noah's day, but we don't take God's Word for it. The flood was a way the world was baptized to bring it redemption, but only believers were baptized.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding, but I was absolutely saying the whole earth was flooded. The water come from above and below.

I was saying it didn't just rain the we whole earth was flooded, which was the original suggestion here from stink.

Water came from the deep, water came from the heavens. I suspect there was a water canopy above as well and have for many years. We can also clearly see the seam of the earths crust.

There is scientific evidence that the ocean were much shallower, and suddenly received an enormous new amount of water. The canopy, which doesnt exist as a liquid form now, that formerly covered the earth was the source of that new water.

The world used to be tropical worldwide. That was possible only because of the canopy that kept radiative heat in at the poles, even when those regions didn't get light for months.

The pre-Noah earth was entirely different from what is is now, a veritable paradise to conceive of, but nothing like heaven will be.