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(03-11-2017 12:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Not taking sides in this debate, but it's interesting to note that with a slight shift in the committee's thinking in 2015 and three more points against Middle Tennessee in last year's CUSA final, ODU would have two NCAA trips in the past three seasons without changing the quality of the seasons. To what degree would that change the way we're looking at JJ today? Presumably we'd all be pissed at how the season ended, but would it be "**** happens, we're still in good shape" or "we got here on smoke and mirrors and now we're being exposed?"

The problem is that we/you can't live in a game of what-if's. It has zero substantial value in a debate of facts and events. It's really pointless, useless and a non factor as it never happened.

Debating on whether or not Jones was the right hire or not is an actual debate that can be backed up by numbers on both sides of the argument right now as we speak. It's not a what-if game.

(03-11-2017 12:24 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(03-11-2017 12:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Not taking sides in this debate, but it's interesting to note that with a slight shift in the committee's thinking in 2015 and three more points against Middle Tennessee in last year's CUSA final, ODU would have two NCAA trips in the past three seasons without changing the quality of the seasons. To what degree would that change the way we're looking at JJ today? Presumably we'd all be pissed at how the season ended, but would it be "**** happens, we're still in good shape" or "we got here on smoke and mirrors and now we're being exposed?"

The problem is that we/you can't live in a game of what-if's. It has zero substantial value in a debate of facts and events. It's really pointless, useless and a non factor as it never happened.

Debating on whether or not Jones was the right hire or not is an actual debate that can be backed up by numbers on both sides of the argument right now as we speak. It's not a what-if game.

I'm not discussing what-ifs in the sense of chaos theory — if A happens, then it could lead to B, C and D. More that for two moments where no turns to yes — Aaron Bacote's half-court heave at the end of the CUSA final last year and the selection committee decision in 2015 — ODU has two trips to the NCAAs where now it has a NIT Final Four and Vegas 16 title. They still have their good wins against LSU and VCU, and their puzzling losses to UTSA and Southern Miss. Nothing else about this year changes. Just those two elements.

The question: Does going to the NCAA twice in a row make this year's disappointment more forgivable? Are we ready to put JJ on hot seat status? Are we happy about the direction in which the program is headed?

My concern is the team actually took a step back this year. The "they're sophomore's" argument and the loss of Freeman are of course reasons, but after a while you start to realize there is always a reason, and that is precisely what is wrong with JJ, Not good enough recruiting, not just talent wise but timing wise, not good enough coaching.
If you give JJ long enough, he will eventually luck out and make the Dance, His track record predicts he will. I simply don't see him as being sufficiently talented to make the Dance or NIT or win the conference championship with any degree of regularity.
He is the classic tease. Win just enough to keep everyone's hopes up but never deliver with any meaningful consistency.
If you are a JJ fan, you see the problem being the kids youth and inexperience and inheriting a team in shambles. If you are not a fan, you see lack of player talent, lack of a plan ( or the ability) to build and sustain a real program and suspect coaching.

(03-11-2017 04:08 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  My concern is the team actually took a step back this year. The "they're sophomore's" argument and the loss of Freeman are of course reasons, but after a while you start to realize there is always a reason, and that is precisely what is wrong with JJ, Not good enough recruiting, not just talent wise but timing wise, not good enough coaching.
If you give JJ long enough, he will eventually luck out and make the Dance, His track record predicts he will. I simply don't see him as being sufficiently talented to make the Dance or NIT or win the conference championship with any degree of regularity.
He is the classic tease. Win just enough to keep everyone's hopes up but never deliver with any meaningful consistency.
If you are a JJ fan, you see the problem being the kids youth and inexperience and inheriting a team in shambles. If you are not a fan, you see lack of player talent, lack of a plan ( or the ability) to build and sustain a real program and suspect coaching.

JJ can coach, especially defense. the issue so far has been recruiting jucos that havent materialized. You saw when we had some talent we were on the NCAA bubble then played in title game. The hope is that we finally got recruits that are the best we've had in years coming in next year. We will see how that translates on the court.

Yep, time will tell. Will JJ maximize their potential or stall their progress with over emphasizing defense. It's impossible to know this for certain, but I can't help but think JJ somehow shakes the kids confidence with his D first and always philosophy plus brow beating we've all seen.

(03-11-2017 03:14 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  The question: Does going to the NCAA twice in a row make this year's disappointment more forgivable? Are we ready to put JJ on hot seat status? Are we happy about the direction in which the program is headed?

You can't ask that question because we already know what has played out. Jones hasn't won a Conference Championship. Jones hasn't won a Conference Tournament. Jones hasn't gotten to a NCAA Tournament Game. Sure if he had done any of those things the answer would be different. But he hasn't so I'm not sure what you are even trying to get at. Jones simply doesn't have any substantial results to speak of in 4 years here. No Championships. No NCAA Tournament Games. Period. That is why many are questioning his status. Reality is reality.

Let's at least let the selection committee tell us if we are dancing before we make a thread like this.

For all of you that want to believe that Jones will develop this program as a serious NCAA Tournament bid threat year over year, let me ask you this. What past performance in Jones' resume makes you believe this?

The eight (8) years it has been since he has even sniffed a NCAA Tournament selection?
The two (2) NCAA Tournament bids that he has gotten since the year 2000 (1 every 8.5 years for a 12% clip)?

Jones hasn't done anything since his Elite Eight run with UVA 23 years ago. You are crazy if you are putting your hopes in Jones drinking some miracle water and miraculously finding that groove he had almost 25 years ago.

I'm curious why some fans believe we SHOULD be in the tournament year after year? We are in CUSA--a one bid league. We have NO room for error every season. What in ODU's history leads anyone to believe that we should be a Top 30 team every year?

You're over stating expectations. There is a difference between should and want. Do you think it's unreasonable to want to be in the Dance, NIT or be in the top 50 from year to year? Personally I don't think it's unrealistic, but JJ will never get us there.

In four years he's already achieved two out of the three (Top 50 ranking and NIT...Final Four, no less).

Tommy Amaker. Perfect fit. Class act, African American, experienced, and success wherever he goes.

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He turned down over a million per year at Miami

Well, Texas was 4-14 in conference... and 11-22 overall.
Think the Longhorns are done with Shaka yet?

FecesU coaching legacy... from Anthony Grant to Shaka... all flameouts at the next big level

We could use him... maybe he's better on the small stage?

(03-11-2017 07:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  He turned down over a million per year at Miami

Find out what he cost and pay it. I'd shell out $1,000 for the opportunity to get to the next level. I know I'm not alone.

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(03-11-2017 07:57 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-11-2017 07:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  He turned down over a million per year at Miami

Find out what he cost and pay it. I'd shell out $1,000 for the opportunity to get to the next level. I know I'm not alone.

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We arent paying over a million doe a coach unless you multiply that by 100 and have some friends join in.

(03-11-2017 07:46 PM)Petey Hodge Wrote:  Well, Texas was 4-14 in conference... and 11-22 overall.
Think the Longhorns are done with Shaka yet?

FecesU coaching legacy... from Anthony Grant to Shaka... all flameouts at the next big level

We could use him... maybe he's better on the small stage?

True, but for that kind of money I'd rather Amaker. Shaka isn't running Texas. Shaka has no control of his domain there. He definitely needs a smaller atmosphere.

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(03-11-2017 12:11 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 09:46 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 11:29 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 11:28 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 10:27 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Question for the fans who cannot stomach JJ ball, will you be rooting for ODUs failure next season? If they lose, he's (probably) gone. But if he gets to the tourney, he ain't going anywhere for a while.

None of us root for failure by ODU. We just expect the failures to come and have our expectations fulfilled.

There are absolutely fans that would rather lose to prove their point than win and be wrong. That part is certainly obvious.

I don't want us to lose, I want us to win and win Big.

I just realize JJ is never going to be that guy.

You keep burying your head in the sand though sweetie.

You've been wrong about jones being the answer since day one and you aren't man enough to admit it.

It is what it is.

But to get what you want, a new head coach, they'll need to really suck it up next year. And I know you've mentioned that his mediocrity will be good enough to never get canned but next year is your chance.

The only other way I see him leaving is if Wood takes another gig. The new AD will want to hire his own guy.

Honestly I think I can make my point a little more clearly......

Is there any chance in hell than jones is going to get hired away from odu in the next couple years? No? Then he isn't doing his job well enough.

That's just a fact of college basketball. Jones isn't going anywhere unless we fire him because no one else wants him.

No one wanted him when he was at American and no one else wants him now and a majority of his current fanbase is ready for him to go as well.

(03-11-2017 12:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Not taking sides in this debate, but it's interesting to note that with a slight shift in the committee's thinking in 2015 and three more points against Middle Tennessee in last year's CUSA final, ODU would have two NCAA trips in the past three seasons without changing the quality of the seasons. To what degree would that change the way we're looking at JJ today? Presumably we'd all be pissed at how the season ended, but would it be "**** happens, we're still in good shape" or "we got here on smoke and mirrors and now we're being exposed?"

And if I hypothetically won the lottery I'd be a millionaire, who gives a crap.

The team choked down the stretch 2 years ago, didn't get it done with one of the best pure scorers odu has ever had and totally underachieved this year.

We don't live in hypothetical land, we live in the land of not making the NCAA tourney, not winning the cusa tourney and not winning the regular season in 4 years.