If the Shockers do go to the AAC, the MVC and Summit should realign to cut down on travel. The new Summit would be remarkably similar in schools and footprint to the old DII North Central Conference. The value in the MVC would be largely gonna when Wichita St leaves. Mo St would probably follow if given a choice.

Move W Illinois, IUPUI, and IPFW to the MVC, and move Drake and UNI to the Summit. Add UMKC from the WAC and accept MO St also if they need a new home. Let Washburn move up from DII to the Summit if they so desire.

The gaping hole in the Summit footprint would be solely Minnesota. Minn St-Mankato or Concordia-St Paul could easily fill that.

Those moves make lots of sense!

If Wichita State moves to the AAC? Missouri State might be looking at C-USA. They have turned down SBC before.
I could see the MVC football schools trying to find a way out to join the FBS. That would out the Summit football members in trouble.
Lindenwood may have the money to move to D1. Missouri Southern and UMSL in two large populated areas could try and go D1.
I would not rule out Sioux Falls to try and go D1.

UMKC stays in the WAC. Northern Colorado moves to the Summit.

(03-07-2017 07:57 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If Wichita State moves to the AAC? Missouri State might be looking at C-USA.

That doesn't mean C-USA will look at Missouri State.

(03-07-2017 07:57 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I would not rule out Sioux Falls to try and go D1.

You have no idea how ridiculous your postings are when you throw out ideas like that. It has barely 1000 students and many of its players were on par with escaped convicts.

Augustana in Sioux Falls was looked at as our own Vanderbilt or Northwestern in the NCC. Sioux Falls is a complete .

(03-07-2017 07:57 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If Wichita State moves to the AAC? Missouri State might be looking at C-USA. They have turned down SBC before.

I can look at a Mercedes-Maybach G-Class 650, but that doesn't mean I'm going to miss my Metro because I'm buying one. CUSA is not only full, they're bribing the fire marshall to look the other way.

Doubt UNI and Drake would want anything to do with that, even if WSU and MO St leave.

They'll still say being with S ILL, Bradley, ILL St, IND St, Loyola, and Evanville is better. Add Milwaukee and Valpo to that group.

If Whichita St leaves the MVC I actually think someone like UMKC, Omaha, or UIC would be the logical replacement. The 4 private schools that don't participate in the MVFC are not going to admit a public football school.

With that said, my personal preference would be for the Summit and MVC to realign along football lines, essentially putting all of the MVFC but Youngstown St together in one Olympic sports league.

All of this sounds horrible. Add Belmont and Valparaiso and then the best third team you can find. Maybe ETSU or MTSU.

(03-07-2017 08:10 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(03-07-2017 07:57 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If Wichita State moves to the AAC? Missouri State might be looking at C-USA.

That doesn't mean C-USA will look at Missouri State.

C-USA already has 14 members. Probably not in the mood to go to 15 or 16 with a tv deal worth $200k each.

(03-07-2017 10:23 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Doubt UNI and Drake would want anything to do with that, even if WSU and MO St leave.

They'll still say being with S ILL, Bradley, ILL St, IND St, Loyola, and Evanville is better. Add Milwaukee and Valpo to that group.

UNI and Drake value Chicagoland recruiting for athletes and students more than they value any MVC school. That would be the reason that they might not go for it.

W Ill and IPFW are hard sells, as no one wants them. Maybe the OVC would take them after it loses Jacksonville St to FBS and the Atlantic Sun. IUPUI has at least upgraded it's bb facilities and offers the Indianapolis area for student recruiting and it's research is topnotch, but research capability doesn't concern most MVC schools.

(03-07-2017 10:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If Whichita St leaves the MVC I actually think someone like UMKC, Omaha, or UIC would be the logical replacement. The 4 private schools that don't participate in the MVFC are not going to admit a public football school.

With that said, my personal preference would be for the Summit and MVC to realign along football lines, essentially putting all of the MVFC but Youngstown St together in one Olympic sports league.

UND would oppose an all fb MVC as that wouldn't include Denver and Omaha. Denver is such an important area for our alumni. Probably is for all the Dakotas and Omaha too. For that reason, N Colo is a good match too, as a travel partner for Denver, but No Colo prefers mountain states conference alliances rather than a plains states one. Denver prefers that too, but the Big Sky is closed to them.

(03-07-2017 10:23 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Doubt UNI and Drake would want anything to do with that, even if WSU and MO St leave.

They'll still say being with S ILL, Bradley, ILL St, IND St, Loyola, and Evanville is better. Add Milwaukee and Valpo to that group.

That's what I was thinking. St. Louis would be the best replacement, but who knows if they'd be interested. Oral Roberts, Detroit, and Valpo are others that come to mind. The UW schools may have to be a package deal.

The finalists last time were Valparaiso, UI-Chicago, UM-Kansas City, Oral Roberts, and the winner Loyola-Chicago.

Football does not have bird one to do with this. I agree it will be a public school, likely without football. The choices really are:

UM-Kansas City $1.02 billion endowment (entire UM system) 10,247 UG Students, Athletic budget = $14,074,330
Arena (Municipal) 7,300 (Basketball) 1,528 average attendance
1,500 Swinney Rec Center (on campus option)
UW-Milwaukee $201 million endowment, 23,031 UG Students, Athletic budget = $12,916,898
Arena 10,783 (basketball) 2,667 average attendance
3,500-seat Klotsche Center (on campus option)
Oakland $84 million endowment, 16,594 UG Students, Athletic budget = $14,138,441
3,000-seat Athletics Center O'rena 3,097 average attendance (packed house)
UI-Chicago $2.278 billion endowment, 17,575 UG Students, Athletic budget = $16,217,206
6,972 (basketball) UIC Pavilion, 3,166 average attendance
Purdue Indianapolis $601 million endowment, 21,984 UG Students, Athletic budget = $9,306,307
6,800 (basketball) Indiana Farmers Coliseum, 1,055 average attendance
Wright State $84.8 million endowment, 13,607 UG Students, Athletic budget = $11,663,355
10,400 (basketball) Nutter Center, 4,355 average attendance
Valparaiso $204.7 million endowment, 3,300 UG Students,
5,000-seat ARC, 3,572 average attendance
Oral Roberts $28 million endowment, 2,782 UG Students,
10,554 Mabee Center, 3,317 average attendance
Belmont $90.9 million endowment, 5,983 UG Students,
5,085-seat Curb Event Center, 2,536 average attendance

A lot of mediocrity in there. Belmont has the best teams, and Nashville is not a huge stretch. But they are pretty happy to be in the OVC, as that was always their plan, to be in the Tennessee heavy conference. I'm not sure they would be interested.

Illinois-Chicago is the biggest and best school, and the best situated long term. Wright State was a surprise performer, so I place them 2nd. IUPUI, UMKC, UWM are way short of their potential. ORU and Valpo have decent support, but neither has a massive alumni base, and Valpo overlaps with LUC. Oakland is fine, but the upside is limited.

I think it's pretty obvious who is the top choice, UIC, not just for their sustainability but to double down on Chicago market and recruiting. Belmont and Wright State deserve a look, but I see Wright State as a backup and Belmont -who would actually upgrade Basketball- as unlikely to be interested.

(03-08-2017 12:16 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The finalists last time were Valparaiso, UI-Chicago, UM-Kansas City, Oral Roberts, and the winner Loyola-Chicago.

Football does not have bird one to do with this. I agree it will be a public school, likely without football. The choices really are:

UM-Kansas City $1.02 billion endowment (entire UM system) 10,247 UG Students, Athletic budget = $14,074,330
Arena (Municipal) 7,300 (Basketball) 1,528 average attendance
1,500 Swinney Rec Center (on campus option)
UW-Milwaukee $201 million endowment, 23,031 UG Students, Athletic budget = $12,916,898
Arena 10,783 (basketball) 2,667 average attendance
3,500-seat Klotsche Center (on campus option)
Oakland $84 million endowment, 16,594 UG Students, Athletic budget = $14,138,441
3,000-seat Athletics Center O'rena 3,097 average attendance (packed house)
UI-Chicago $2.278 billion endowment, 17,575 UG Students, Athletic budget = $16,217,206
6,972 (basketball) UIC Pavilion, 3,166 average attendance
Purdue Indianapolis $601 million endowment, 21,984 UG Students, Athletic budget = $9,306,307
6,800 (basketball) Indiana Farmers Coliseum, 1,055 average attendance
Wright State $84.8 million endowment, 13,607 UG Students, Athletic budget = $11,663,355
10,400 (basketball) Nutter Center, 4,355 average attendance
Valparaiso $204.7 million endowment, 3,300 UG Students,
5,000-seat ARC, 3,572 average attendance
Oral Roberts $28 million endowment, 2,782 UG Students,
10,554 Mabee Center, 3,317 average attendance
Belmont $90.9 million endowment, 5,983 UG Students,
5,085-seat Curb Event Center, 2,536 average attendance

A lot of mediocrity in there. Belmont has the best teams, and Nashville is not a huge stretch. But they are pretty happy to be in the OVC, as that was always their plan, to be in the Tennessee heavy conference. I'm not sure they would be interested.

Illinois-Chicago is the biggest and best school, and the best situated long term. Wright State was a surprise performer, so I place them 2nd. IUPUI, UMKC, UWM are way short of their potential. ORU and Valpo have decent support, but neither has a massive alumni base, and Valpo overlaps with LUC. Oakland is fine, but the upside is limited.

I think it's pretty obvious who is the top choice, UIC, not just for their sustainability but to double down on Chicago market and recruiting. Belmont and Wright State deserve a look, but I see Wright State as a backup and Belmont -who would actually upgrade Basketball- as unlikely to be interested.

Belmont has its men's soccer team in the Horizon and has been linked to it in the past. Without Wichita, the superiority of the MVC over the Horizon is highly questionable. Loyola may regret their move.

Denver flirted with the MVC last time, If I recall correctly. But an MVC without Creighton and Wichita State? Doubt that would fly.

Drake and Northern Iowa would want nothing to do with the Summit. The MVC should add North Dakota St. I'm sure that would be Northern Iowa's preference. Doubt NDSU would make that switch since the Dakotas own the Summit. MVC should then add Murray State, who would have by far the most history of sustained success of any candidate and the most fans of any non-NDSU candidate.

UIC would be a disaster. Zero reason to doubledown on a market that does nothing for them currently. UIC is a horrendous program.

Denver was asked to change it's sports mix by the MVC, and they replied that they liked their sports mix. That is one of the big reasons they are in the Summit, they accept them as they are. They have Hockey (NCHC) and Lacrosse (Big East) in the conferences they want, so they really have zero pressure to move. Very unique situation.

Belmont is a Tennessee school and there have been feelers from MVC and supposedly also the A10 and Horizon, but they like their OVC home, especially all the nearby schools, and minimal travel. Soccer is in the Horizon because it's the closest league that sponsors. I like them, but they are kind of a wild card, a mild reach.

UIC is light years ahead of everyone else as an institution. It's R1, #65 on the HERD list (top 8% of research schools) with $355m in research spending in 2015. That level puts them in company with the likes of UC Irvine, Brown University, Boston U and the University of Virginia -- borderline AAU territory. They have the best on campus arena, the most solid budget, the biggest market. The infrastructure is in place even if they are middle of the road athletics at the moment. They bring as much as anyone else while mediocre. If they have a good run they are extremely valuable.

Besides those two I don't much like the others. I'd probably advise standing pat at 9 if you don't get one of those two.

Milwaukee does have good basketball at times. Moving that program into a better conference might help them become better.