(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.

(03-09-2017 12:35 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It would make the most sense for UMKC to join - replace WSU with a lesser program but one firmly within the travel footprint making for an easy trip - also improve travel for UMKC.

UMKC is not getting the nod.

MVC has had UMKC on it's last two expansion lists when they added Evansville and again when they added Loyola. With campus visits both times. They will be considered big time once again.

(03-09-2017 08:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.

(03-09-2017 12:35 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It would make the most sense for UMKC to join - replace WSU with a lesser program but one firmly within the travel footprint making for an easy trip - also improve travel for UMKC.

UMKC is not getting the nod.

MVC has had UMKC on it's last two expansion lists when they added Evansville and again when they added Loyola. With campus visits both times. They will be considered big time once again.

They weren't that high last time. Yes, they were considered, but it feels like they were just doing their due diligence.

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Where are you getting your information from?

It's public information. Neither ILL St or IND St are land-grant universities, and they never will be.

They call their athletic teams "___ State" because that is perceived like a flagship in the midwest (for example, Michigan St, Ohio St, etc).

But the facts are: Illinois never had a Michigan St equivalent, and Indiana's Michigan St equivalent is Purdue.

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Balanced as in keeping the current ratio.

So, maintaining the unbalanced ratio. Got it.

Just want to make sure we're using the definition of words.

(03-09-2017 08:45 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 08:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.

(03-09-2017 12:35 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It would make the most sense for UMKC to join - replace WSU with a lesser program but one firmly within the travel footprint making for an easy trip - also improve travel for UMKC.

UMKC is not getting the nod.

MVC has had UMKC on it's last two expansion lists when they added Evansville and again when they added Loyola. With campus visits both times. They will be considered big time once again.

They weren't that high last time. Yes, they were considered, but it feels like they were just doing their due diligence.

I wouldn't put it past Elgin to pick UMKC based solely on location. However, if WSU leaves, SWOMO will have one foot out the door as well so UMKC all of a sudden becomes an outlier geographically big time. It says volumes about where the MVC is headed in the future by even considering UMKC, one of the worst DI basketball schools in the nation. Besides, don't they still play in a high school gym?

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.

Other than the fact that Valpo is private it is a good fit.

(03-08-2017 01:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  FYI, neither ILL St or IND St are land-grants. Neither have agriculture. It's really just marketing/branding that they changed their names to ____ State U.

Where are you getting your information from? Half of what you said untrue, it doesn't even make sense.

(03-08-2017 01:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Adding Valpo would give 5 private/5 public. How is that not balanced?

Balanced as in keeping the current ratio.

(03-09-2017 12:35 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It would make the most sense for UMKC to join - replace WSU with a lesser program but one firmly within the travel footprint making for an easy trip - also improve travel for UMKC.

UMKC is not getting the nod.

But can they even get Valpo to bite? I'm not so sure they can which would leave them few options. They aren't getting SLU, Belmont or Murray State. If they aren't careful it will be UMKC or Omaha or I guess they could go after UIC. What the MVC needs is to keep Wichita at all costs. Lose WSU and risk a domino affect where one or more of the three, UNI, Illinois State or Missouri State leave.

I'm pretty sure MplsBison took "State" in a schools name to mean Land Grant. It comes from thinking of SDSU, NDSU, CSU, MSU, NMSU who all have agriculture ties as Land Grants who work closely on research. The reality is Idaho is a Land Grant and a Flagship as is the University of Minnesota and the University of Nebraska. Having "state"in the name does not mean you are a Land Grant institution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la...#Minnesota

(03-10-2017 12:50 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 08:45 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 08:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.

(03-09-2017 12:35 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It would make the most sense for UMKC to join - replace WSU with a lesser program but one firmly within the travel footprint making for an easy trip - also improve travel for UMKC.

UMKC is not getting the nod.

MVC has had UMKC on it's last two expansion lists when they added Evansville and again when they added Loyola. With campus visits both times. They will be considered big time once again.

They weren't that high last time. Yes, they were considered, but it feels like they were just doing their due diligence.

I wouldn't put it past Elgin to pick UMKC based solely on location. However, if WSU leaves, SWOMO will have one foot out the door as well so UMKC all of a sudden becomes an outlier geographically big time. It says volumes about where the MVC is headed in the future by even considering UMKC, one of the worst DI basketball schools in the nation. Besides, don't they still play in a high school gym?

They'll add UMKC and them if MSU bolts they'll follow that up with Omaha.

(03-10-2017 01:40 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 12:50 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 08:45 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 08:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.


UMKC is not getting the nod.

MVC has had UMKC on it's last two expansion lists when they added Evansville and again when they added Loyola. With campus visits both times. They will be considered big time once again.

They weren't that high last time. Yes, they were considered, but it feels like they were just doing their due diligence.

I wouldn't put it past Elgin to pick UMKC based solely on location. However, if WSU leaves, SWOMO will have one foot out the door as well so UMKC all of a sudden becomes an outlier geographically big time. It says volumes about where the MVC is headed in the future by even considering UMKC, one of the worst DI basketball schools in the nation. Besides, don't they still play in a high school gym?

They'll add UMKC and them if MSU bolts they'll follow that up with Omaha.

At that point you may as well add ORU, which basically means that the Valley will have traded...

Tulsa for ORU
Creighton for Omaha
Wichita State for UMKC

Ouch

I'm still going to say that when WSU leaves, the MVC adds Valpo. Horizon takes a look at the IUPU's.

(03-10-2017 01:19 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.

Other than the fact that Valpo is private it is a good fit.

(03-08-2017 01:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  FYI, neither ILL St or IND St are land-grants. Neither have agriculture. It's really just marketing/branding that they changed their names to ____ State U.

Where are you getting your information from? Half of what you said untrue, it doesn't even make sense.

(03-08-2017 01:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Adding Valpo would give 5 private/5 public. How is that not balanced?

Balanced as in keeping the current ratio.

(03-09-2017 12:35 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It would make the most sense for UMKC to join - replace WSU with a lesser program but one firmly within the travel footprint making for an easy trip - also improve travel for UMKC.

UMKC is not getting the nod.

But can they even get Valpo to bite? I'm not so sure they can which would leave them few options. They aren't getting SLU, Belmont or Murray State. If they aren't careful it will be UMKC or Omaha or I guess they could go after UIC. What the MVC needs is to keep Wichita at all costs. Lose WSU and risk a domino affect where one or more of the three, UNI, Illinois State or Missouri State leave.

I'm pretty sure MplsBison took "State" in a schools name to mean Land Grant. It comes from thinking of SDSU, NDSU, CSU, MSU, NMSU who all have agriculture ties as Land Grants who work closely on research. The reality is Idaho is a Land Grant and a Flagship as is the University of Minnesota and the University of Nebraska. Having "state"in the name does not mean you are a Land Grant institution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la...#Minnesota

Correct. Illinois State and Indiana State have ALWAYS had Ixx State in their name. From day of founding. Illinois State predates the whole Land Grant Act.

But MplsBison will not change his scree. Regardless of evidence produced.


/thread

As I said correctly from the beginning, neither are land-grants.

(03-10-2017 12:50 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 08:45 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 08:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

The MVC wouldn't give that much consideration to UMKC or Omaha.

(03-09-2017 12:35 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  It would make the most sense for UMKC to join - replace WSU with a lesser program but one firmly within the travel footprint making for an easy trip - also improve travel for UMKC.

UMKC is not getting the nod.

MVC has had UMKC on it's last two expansion lists when they added Evansville and again when they added Loyola. With campus visits both times. They will be considered big time once again.

They weren't that high last time. Yes, they were considered, but it feels like they were just doing their due diligence.

I wouldn't put it past Elgin to pick UMKC based solely on location. However, if WSU leaves, SWOMO will have one foot out the door as well so UMKC all of a sudden becomes an outlier geographically big time. It says volumes about where the MVC is headed in the future by even considering UMKC, one of the worst DI basketball schools in the nation. Besides, don't they still play in a high school gym?

Nope. They play in the Municipal Auditorium.
http://www.umkckangaroos.com/ViewArticle...ID=1363538

(03-10-2017 11:30 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Where are you getting your information from?

It's public information. Neither ILL St or IND St are land-grant universities, and they never will be.

They call their athletic teams "___ State" because that is perceived like a flagship in the midwest (for example, Michigan St, Ohio St, etc).

But the facts are: Illinois never had a Michigan St equivalent, and Indiana's Michigan St equivalent is Purdue.

(03-09-2017 06:47 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Balanced as in keeping the current ratio.

So, maintaining the unbalanced ratio. Got it.

Just want to make sure we're using the definition of words.

Yes, you clearly don't understand that for things to be balanced that they have to me the same numerically.

(03-10-2017 12:50 PM)Shox Wrote:  I wouldn't put it past Elgin to pick UMKC based solely on location. However, if WSU leaves, SWOMO will have one foot out the door as well so UMKC all of a sudden becomes an outlier geographically big time. It says volumes about where the MVC is headed in the future by even considering UMKC, one of the worst DI basketball schools in the nation. Besides, don't they still play in a high school gym?

I would not be surprised for them to get looked at, but when it comes down to it I think they would get a bigger name.

UMKC's current stadium is pretty nice.

(03-10-2017 01:19 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  But can they even get Valpo to bite? I'm not so sure they can which would leave them few options. They aren't getting SLU, Belmont or Murray State. If they aren't careful it will be UMKC or Omaha or I guess they could go after UIC. What the MVC needs is to keep Wichita at all costs. Lose WSU and risk a domino affect where one or more of the three, UNI, Illinois State or Missouri State leave.

I think they could get Valpo. I think they could also get Belmont and Murray State if they wanted to. I don't see SLU as an option.

(03-10-2017 05:22 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  As I said correctly from the beginning, neither are land-grants.

But you pretty much got the rest wrong and even then that statement is a bit disingenuous.

Belmont declined to even consider the MVC last time. I wouldn't be so certain about them joining.

Has UMKC moved all of their games to Municipal? I know back when we scheduled them they played at some tiny HS type gym for most of their games, but moved a couple of the bigger games to Municipal. That's where Wichita played them. But it wasn't their regular home court, at least not at the time.

If Elgin still want market impact, which means next to nothing for the MVC and their horrid media deal, they won't double down on Chicago with Valpo. Performance meant nothing last time the MVC added a school and I'd be surprised if it meant anything next time. Hell, Valpo was passed over for Loyola. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I bet UMKC and SIU-E get strong looks because of where they're located despite how much they may suck. Though someone, somewhere, showed UMKC's RPI and it was much better than I'd have expected. Would have put them in about the middle of the MVC this year. So they may fit right in.

Valpo has a dump of a facility for basketball. Municipal Auditorium isn't the Sprint Center or Qwest Center or JQH or Koch, but it's a nice facility with great history. UMKC has done a better job in recent years in spucing the place up. Got a new floor that is UMKC's only. UMKC gets good media coverage in Kansas City. They have a television deal with the majority of their games are shown on over the air television. Also have a radio contract with 810 WHB. They split their games with their other station ESPN Kansas City but they get coverage on the big one and move the big games over to 810. Unlike Loyola, UMKC actually gets media coverage in their city.

I guess it's nice to see a Missouri public U fan pushing hard for another MO public ... but with WSU leaving there is a very real possibility that it's only a matter of time before MO St leaves too.

So why add a far away trip to MO?

Where would Missouri State go? There is no need for the Sun Belt or anyone else to expand unless if the WAC wants to test the "former FBS conference" provision.

(03-11-2017 01:50 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Belmont declined to even consider the MVC last time. I wouldn't be so certain about them joining.

Has UMKC moved all of their games to Municipal? I know back when we scheduled them they played at some tiny HS type gym for most of their games, but moved a couple of the bigger games to Municipal. That's where Wichita played them. But it wasn't their regular home court, at least not at the time.

If Elgin still want market impact, which means next to nothing for the MVC and their horrid media deal, they won't double down on Chicago with Valpo. Performance meant nothing last time the MVC added a school and I'd be surprised if it meant anything next time. Hell, Valpo was passed over for Loyola. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I bet UMKC and SIU-E get strong looks because of where they're located despite how much they may suck. Though someone, somewhere, showed UMKC's RPI and it was much better than I'd have expected. Would have put them in about the middle of the MVC this year. So they may fit right in.

The St Louis market would be more important than KC, but SIUE would seemingly get opposition from SIU. SIUE is actually is growing has has majors that SIU doesn't have. UMSL and Lindenwood if they were DI would be more politically appropriate picks.

(03-11-2017 07:01 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Where would Missouri State go? There is no need for the Sun Belt or anyone else to expand unless if the WAC wants to test the "former FBS conference" provision.

They could get the same waiver that Liberty has. With Jax St, E Kentucky, Youngstown St, Liberty, NMSU, maybe SHSU and Lamar, they could easily put together a fb schedule and stay in the MVC at the same time. Don't know that more waivers are coming, but they are almost certainly being discussed are certain campuses. Stony Brook, JMU, and Delaware could do the same.

(03-11-2017 07:51 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-11-2017 07:01 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Where would Missouri State go? There is no need for the Sun Belt or anyone else to expand unless if the WAC wants to test the "former FBS conference" provision.

They could get the same waiver that Liberty has. With Jax St, E Kentucky, Youngstown St, Liberty, NMSU, maybe SHSU and Lamar, they could easily put together a fb schedule and stay in the MVC at the same time. Don't know that more waivers are coming, but they are almost certainly being discussed are certain campuses. Stony Brook, JMU, and Delaware could do the same.

None of which solves the problem that the MVC in hoops minus Wichita State is a conference that no longer has three of the five closest schools to Missouri State that were present when the Bears joined the league.

It doesn't solve the problem of level of play in the Valley which would be in danger of moving out of the upper half of conferences in RPI.

There is no reason at all for Missouri State to pursue a waiver to join FBS because MISSOURI STATE DOESN'T WANT TO JOIN FBS.

Missouri State's interest is in being in a good hoops league, they would probably upgrade to FBS to attain membership in a better hoops league but football isn't driving the bus in Springfield.

(03-11-2017 10:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-11-2017 07:51 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-11-2017 07:01 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Where would Missouri State go? There is no need for the Sun Belt or anyone else to expand unless if the WAC wants to test the "former FBS conference" provision.

They could get the same waiver that Liberty has. With Jax St, E Kentucky, Youngstown St, Liberty, NMSU, maybe SHSU and Lamar, they could easily put together a fb schedule and stay in the MVC at the same time. Don't know that more waivers are coming, but they are almost certainly being discussed are certain campuses. Stony Brook, JMU, and Delaware could do the same.

None of which solves the problem that the MVC in hoops minus Wichita State is a conference that no longer has three of the five closest schools to Missouri State that were present when the Bears joined the league.

It doesn't solve the problem of level of play in the Valley which would be in danger of moving out of the upper half of conferences in RPI.

There is no reason at all for Missouri State to pursue a waiver to join FBS because MISSOURI STATE DOESN'T WANT TO JOIN FBS.

Missouri State's interest is in being in a good hoops league, they would probably upgrade to FBS to attain membership in a better hoops league but football isn't driving the bus in Springfield.

If Mo St was FBS, that would nearly ensure a CUSA bid if ever a spot opened up. They would get in even over Ark St.