(02-14-2017 11:45 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The fact that Flynn lied to Pence certainly puts some donkey ears on the whole situation, but let's try getting more information before engaging in wild speculation.


WILD SPECULATION. The Russians hacked the DNC. Fact. It's not wild that all of this was coordinated.

So the whole world is looking for this proof and you're sitting on it?

The way the left has lost their minds is scary. I didn't know how many mentally ill people there were in the country.

With Schumer, he's just doing it to keep his base happy. But a lot of his base is absolutely nuts. They've been brainwashed into believing a man who is a bit of a narcissist and jerk is the anti-Christ or worse. And not only that, he is a Russian puppet. And a war monger who will put us into WWIII with Russia. And an anti-Semite with an Orthodox Jewish daughter and Orthodox Jewish son-in-law who is his biggest adviser. And he absolutely hates all immigrants. And he is disrespectful to all women, including his two immigrant wives and his daughter who he puts in a lead role in his businesses and campaigns.

(02-14-2017 11:44 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 10:25 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  What did the president know, and when did he know it?

What Obama operative leaked it and when did he leak it.

Apparently Yates did, the one who Trump fired.

Although its not clear who ordered the wire-tapping and gave the info to her.

(02-14-2017 11:47 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Who told Flynn to do what he did? Are we supposed to believe that he did this all by himself?

Why is Flynn susceptible to blackmail?

Why didn't the Administration do anything until it was reported to the media?

First off, you are literally going to give yourself a stoke if you don't calm your rage.

Flynn or the administration should have just been upfront that they were going to discuss sanctions.

I've never seen that as a problem, its their job to discuss these things in a new administration.

They choose to try and keep it secret though, and it cost Flynn his job.

(02-14-2017 11:45 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  WILD SPECULATION. The Russians hacked the DNC. Fact. It's not wild that all of this was coordinated.

The Russians probably did hack the DNC. So probably did the Chinese. And the Somalis. And a few fourth graders. They probably all hacked Hillary's server too.

If you don't take adequate precautions in this day and age, you get hacked. The Russians hacked them because they try to hack everybody all the time, just like we do to them, and the DNC didn't take adequate precautions. Just like Hillary didn't.

That doesn't indicate any coordination, beyond coordinating one's own hacking efforts.

Mach, remember when you were so convinced that Trig Palin was Bristol's kid and you conjured up all sorts of conspiracy theories about it? You're sounding a lot l like that Mach again.

(02-14-2017 10:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 10:52 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 10:44 AM)bullet Wrote:  The fourth and most worrying explanation is that the government was not merely monitoring the communications of Russian diplomats, but of the Trump transition team itself. The fact that the contents of Flynn’s phone conversation — highly sensitive intelligence — were leaked to the media suggests that someone with access to that information also has a political axe to grind.

Both of which are illegal.

So in other words, let's forget about the fact that Flynn communicated with a foreign country about America policy.

Let's forget that he lied to the vice President.

Let's forget that Trump claimed he didn't know anything about it when in fact he did.

Let's forget that intelligence said that Flynn was compromised.

Lets. forget that Flynn supposedly sent the Russians encrypted information.

Let's forget all of that and find out who leaked the information.



Trump's America

Wow.. correct me if I'm wrong. .but all of these claims sounds AWFULLY familiar to what Democrats (and MORE than a few on here) were saying about a certain gentlemen, who is currently holed up in an Ecuadorian embassy...

IGNORE THE MESSAGE, it came from WIKILEAKS!!!

Personally, when Flynn admitted that he lied to VP Pence, my guess is that he didn't pass the topic of the conversation on to President Trump either.

Did he pass on the topic of conversation? I don't know.. I'm of the opinion he didn't.. which is bad enough as is for Flynn.

(02-14-2017 11:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 11:44 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 10:25 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  What did the president know, and when did he know it?

What Obama operative leaked it and when did he leak it.

Apparently Yates did, the one who Trump fired.

Although its not clear who ordered the wire-tapping and gave the info to her.

Somebody's going to jail. Jeff Sessions is on it.

(02-14-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  The way the left has lost their minds is scary. I didn't know how many mentally ill people there were in the country.

With Schumer, he's just doing it to keep his base happy. But a lot of his base is absolutely nuts. They've been brainwashed into believing a man who is a bit of a narcissist and jerk is the anti-Christ or worse. And not only that, he is a Russian puppet. And a war monger who will put us into WWIII with Russia. And an anti-Semite with an Orthodox Jewish daughter and Orthodox Jewish son-in-law who is his biggest adviser. And he absolutely hates all immigrants. And he is disrespectful to all women, including his two immigrant wives and his daughter who he puts in a lead role in his businesses and campaigns.

The Russians hacked the election. That, as far as I know, hasn't happened before.
Several of Trump's cabinet have had relations with the Russians. I don't know if that has happened before.
Now this?
Really? I'm not freaking out but I think it's become more than just a coincidence.

(02-14-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  And not only that, he is a Russian puppet. And a war monger who will put us into WWIII with Russia.

This is my favorite part. The left can't decide whether he is a Russian puppet or he will get us into WWIII with Russia, so they go back and forth. He's at most one of those, and if he is either one then he is most definitely not the other. So make up your mind which hyperbolic conspiracy theory you want to push.

What I can see that he is trying to do is to make sure that if we ever do end up in WWIII with Russia, we win it. And that is a good idea. Mainly because that is the best way to keep Russia from starting WWIII with us.

(02-14-2017 12:00 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 10:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 10:52 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 10:44 AM)bullet Wrote:  The fourth and most worrying explanation is that the government was not merely monitoring the communications of Russian diplomats, but of the Trump transition team itself. The fact that the contents of Flynn’s phone conversation — highly sensitive intelligence — were leaked to the media suggests that someone with access to that information also has a political axe to grind.

Both of which are illegal.

So in other words, let's forget about the fact that Flynn communicated with a foreign country about America policy.

Let's forget that he lied to the vice President.

Let's forget that Trump claimed he didn't know anything about it when in fact he did.

Let's forget that intelligence said that Flynn was compromised.

Lets. forget that Flynn supposedly sent the Russians encrypted information.

Let's forget all of that and find out who leaked the information.



Trump's America

Wow.. correct me if I'm wrong. .but all of these claims sounds AWFULLY familiar to what Democrats (and MORE than a few on here) were saying about a certain gentlemen, who is currently holed up in an Ecuadorian embassy...

IGNORE THE MESSAGE, it came from WIKILEAKS!!!

Personally, when Flynn admitted that he lied to VP Pence, my guess is that he didn't pass the topic of the conversation on to President Trump either.

Did he pass on the topic of conversation? I don't know.. I'm of the opinion he didn't.. which is bad enough as is for Flynn.

For me the story isn't whether or not Flynn lied. The story is why wasn't he fired until it was leaked?

The Trump administration knew for weeks that Flynn was vulnerable to blackmail and that he had been in contact with Russia and they did nothing.

Quote:The Russians hacked the election. That, as far as I know, hasn't happened before.

Again, someone tell me how Russia "HACKED" an election...

Come on guys.. what did they do?

Change Voter Rolls?

They went in and changed voting machine results?

They intercepted the hand marked ballots on their way to the appropriate sect of states and swapped them out with their own ballots? Wow.. that'd be some serious spy stuff there!

I REALLY am getting tired of this "They hacked "the Election" baloney that comes up over and over. Oh that's right, the more truthful statement: "They may have hacked into political parties servers and got a hold of some politically damaging information and let it out for the public" (Never mind that a lot of what came out was information proven to be TRUTHFUL)

(02-14-2017 12:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  For me the story isn't whether or not Flynn lied. The story is why wasn't he fired until it was leaked?

The Trump administration knew for weeks that Flynn was vulnerable to blackmail and that he had been in contact with Russia and they did nothing.

Which is a reasonable request, Fit..

Again, did they know for 3 weeks? Possible... Did they discuss what was actually discussed after that? Yep... Now they know, and have to decide if it was Logan-Act breaking.

The leaked report basically forced it to happen, but we don't know if it would have happened later regardless.

(02-14-2017 12:13 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  For me the story isn't whether or not Flynn lied. The story is why wasn't he fired until it was leaked?

The Trump administration knew for weeks that Flynn was vulnerable to blackmail and that he had been in contact with Russia and they did nothing.

Which is a reasonable request, Fit..

Again, did they know for 3 weeks? Possible... Did they discuss what was actually discussed after that? Yep... Now they know, and have to decide if it was Logan-Act breaking.

The leaked report basically forced it to happen, but we don't know if it would have happened later regardless.

Flynn was compromised and they knew it for 3 weeks. If they hadn't have fired him by now, they weren't going to do it.

In fact, even now they are saying Trump didn't want to let him go but he resigned.

This to me is a more serious problem than whether or not he lied or broke the Logan act.

The guy was compromised and Trump didn't do anything. Someone tackle this guy.

(02-14-2017 12:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  And not only that, he is a Russian puppet. And a war monger who will put us into WWIII with Russia.

This is my favorite part. The left can't decide whether he is a Russian puppet or he will get us into WWIII with Russia, so they go back and forth. He's at most one of those, and if he is either one then he is most definitely not the other. So make up your mind which hyperbolic conspiracy theory you want to push.

What I can see that he is trying to do is to make sure that if we ever do end up in WWIII with Russia, we win it. And that is a good idea. Mainly because that is the best way to keep Russia from starting WWIII with us.

Of course Putin doesn't want WWIII. He is a narcissitic, paranoid former KGB agent who wants power and money and wants lots of elbow room around Russia so they can't be threatened. He isn't interested in ruling Germany or the former Czechoslovakia or Romania or Bulgaria. Now the Baltics, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and the Stans are within arm's reach. And he would like Turkey to be on his side, not in NATO and maybe Poland (but that's not going to happen). He wants a Europe that isn't united, so that his relative military, political and financial (from oil and gas) power is greater.

(02-14-2017 12:13 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  For me the story isn't whether or not Flynn lied. The story is why wasn't he fired until it was leaked?

The Trump administration knew for weeks that Flynn was vulnerable to blackmail and that he had been in contact with Russia and they did nothing.

Which is a reasonable request, Fit..

Again, did they know for 3 weeks? Possible... Did they discuss what was actually discussed after that? Yep... Now they know, and have to decide if it was Logan-Act breaking.

The leaked report basically forced it to happen, but we don't know if it would have happened later regardless.

The reports say Yates and a couple of other Obama holdovers warned them in "late January."

(02-14-2017 11:08 AM)appst89 Wrote:  Most of the so-called controversy has been fabricated by the propaganda arm of the left, formerly known as the media.

What Flynn did is not okay. He is no longer employed by the administration.

Whoever illegally released the wiretapped conversation is also in deep shat.

Absolutely They will be disciplined to the Max

(02-14-2017 08:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  She broke no laws Card Fan. btw way to dodge duck and parry the op.

Her incompetence caused death. That is enough for me.

(02-14-2017 12:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  Of course Putin doesn't want WWIII. He is a narcissitic, paranoid former KGB agent who wants power and money and wants lots of elbow room around Russia so they can't be threatened. He isn't interested in ruling Germany or the former Czechoslovakia or Romania or Bulgaria. Now the Baltics, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and the Stans are within arm's reach. And he would like Turkey to be on his side, not in NATO and maybe Poland (but that's not going to happen). He wants a Europe that isn't united, so that his relative military, political and financial (from oil and gas) power is greater.

Putin wants the same things that every Russian leader since Peter the Great has wanted--defensible borders and a warm water seaport. Peter Zeihan and George Friedman, among others, do a nice job of analyzing this in many formats.

The problem is that from the Rhine/Ardennes/Alps/Carpathians in the west to the Urals in the east, the Great European Plain is pretty much devoid of defensible borders. It's the same problem that Germany, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Czechs, the Slovaks, Hungary, the White Russians, and the Ukrainians all have. There just aren't any natural borders. Therefore the history is of overrunning and being overrun, back and forth. Russians have the additional fear of the Mongol Hordes--the Cossacks are coming. Those are genuine, sincerely held fears.

We don't have to deal with anything like that. We have Canada, Mexico, and two oceans on our borders. So we don't have the same understanding of the problem as they do.

As for the warm water seaport, Iran is probably their best shot. Those Russian leaders since Peter have all cast eyes in that direction from time to time.

(02-14-2017 11:44 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I understand that when you made possibly hundreds of posts guaranteeing Hillary's win, the hurt runs deep.


#3

How about answering any of Fit's questions?

Bless your heart.

(02-14-2017 12:11 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:The Russians hacked the election. That, as far as I know, hasn't happened before.

Again, someone tell me how Russia "HACKED" an election...

Come on guys.. what did they do?

Change Voter Rolls?

They went in and changed voting machine results?

They intercepted the hand marked ballots on their way to the appropriate sect of states and swapped them out with their own ballots? Wow.. that'd be some serious spy stuff there!

I REALLY am getting tired of this "They hacked "the Election" baloney that comes up over and over. Oh that's right, the more truthful statement: "They may have hacked into political parties servers and got a hold of some politically damaging information and let it out for the public" (Never mind that a lot of what came out was information proven to be TRUTHFUL)

Assuming everything you posted is correct, then the next question should be "did the Russian hack affect the election?"

If you answer that question in the affirmative, then the follow-up question becomes: "how did the leaked information affect the election?"

The only answer to this last question is that it exposed the rot in both the Democratic party, the Clinton campaign and the biased media (eg. John Harwood and Donna Brazille).