I was born in the US. My Dad (American) married my Mom (Guatemalan) I grew up in Guatemala and Mexico (dad was a missionary there). I actually didn't grow up speaking English, Spanish was my first language. When my older brother and I were 11 and 12 my parents finally decided it was time to go back to America so we could learn English and learn the American way of life. Just putting my back ground out there.
I completely agree with the original topic. One of the nicknames of the USA is the melting pot. Part of the process of Americanizing immigrants is learning English. Making it easy on Spanish-speaking peoples (using this example because of my back groud) seems nice and is well meaning, but it creates certain conditions of apartheid where immigrants and more importantly children of immigrants become hesitant to join the greater society.
Don't get me wrong, children of immigrants in general will almost always learn English, but those psychological barriers will almost never truly go down. This leads to immigrants and especially their progeny to view themselves as not fully American.
The other end of the process is that Americans need to realize that the process of melting into the greater American society takes multiple generations (2-3) and that speaking another language at home to mom or dad or to their grand parents does not mean that they are less American.
You choose to come to America. We speak English. Learn it....use it. You are not special. Where you come from is not important to us nor do we care about your heritage or customs. If I chose to move to Germany...I would learn to speak German and learn to be a GERMAN and respect its heritage and customs.
(12-02-2016 08:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: You choose to come to America. We speak English. Learn it....use it. You are not special. Where you come from is not important to us nor do we care about your heritage or customs. If I chose to move to Germany...I would learn to speak German and learn to be a GERMAN and respect its heritage and customs.
We did choose to come to America and we have learned English. What more do you want? We may not be special but we do know two languages where many in this country only know one.
You don't have to care about our heritage and we don't have to care about yours. That doesn't mean however that we can't celebrate our heritage. If we want to speak Spanish or eat tacos or celebrate Cinco de Mayo why should you even care?
I don't car about your Tacos, Fried Ice Cream. ...
I care about Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevrolet! My American Heritage is greater because you are in the USA not the hole that you fled.
(12-02-2016 10:59 AM)South Carolina Duke Wrote: I don't car about your Tacos, Fried Ice Cream. ...
I care about Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevrolet! My American Heritage is greater because you are in the USA not the hole that you fled.
(12-02-2016 10:15 AM)Fitbud Wrote: You don't have to care about our heritage and we don't have to care about yours.
Considering you decided to move here and I did not decide to move to your homeland I think you are plainly presenting a false equivalency. If my wife and I moved back to her homeland I sure as hell would not expect her countrymen to bend to English and American traditions.
(granted she immigrated at 2 so she considers the US her home)
Quote:That doesn't mean however that we can't celebrate our heritage.
The point of this thread was the common language of law in the US, not what you do on Cinco De Mayo or Saint Patrick's Day.
Quote:If we want to speak Spanish or eat tacos or celebrate Cinco de Mayo why should you even care?
We really don't care what you speak or what you eat in your day to day life... like *REALLY* don't care.
Quote:Tell me. Why do you care?
I care that our law is always in a single language. Intent is sometimes damn hard to ferret out when we all speak the same thing, imagine how had it would be in a different languate.
I also care because I don't expect a NYC EMT to be able to triage people in any of the 800 languages spoken in NYC. Me wanting to be sure as many people speak English as possible has more to do with my desire for societal cohesion than it does any love for the language.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2016 11:36 AM by Bull_Is_Back.)
I am against the "English is the official language" arguments. The market should determine the language we speak.
My hometown adopted English is the official language by law. It reads terribly and makes the almost all white community appear racist. For the record, our school system has as many Polish-speaking children as Spanish-speaking children. Both are sizable populations.
That doesn't mean my position doesn't have challenges. See the article below for the challenge of hiring staff by law to communicate 85 languages.
Like a school system being required to accommodate every child with a disability, when are the demands for resources so great that the demands compromise the mission of the public school system?
My folks came to US in 1839. They spoke German at home until around 1918 but I have found no records at city, state, or federal level for any of them in any language other than English.
I'm not worried about immigrant communities speaking the old languages for some period of time in private life, but having government cater to it in public life is just promoting/extending civic seperatism IMO.
(12-02-2016 08:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: You choose to come to America. We speak English. Learn it....use it. You are not special. Where you come from is not important to us nor do we care about your heritage or customs. If I chose to move to Germany...I would learn to speak German and learn to be a GERMAN and respect its heritage and customs.
(12-02-2016 12:09 PM)ark30inf Wrote: My folks came to US in 1839. They spoke German at home until around 1918 but I have found no records at city, state, or federal level for any of them in any language other than English.
I'm not worried about immigrant communities speaking the old languages for some period of time in private life, but having government cater to it in public life is just promoting/extending civic separatism IMO.
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These same arguments were made when Jews, Italians, and, of course, the Irish had large immigrant populations early last century.
Quote:Considering you decided to move here and I did not decide to move to your homeland I think you are plainly presenting a false equivalency. If my wife and I moved back to her homeland I sure as hell would not expect her countrymen to bend to English and American traditions.
(granted she immigrated at 2 so she considers the US her home)
Who in this forum is asking anyone to bend to traditions of foreign to America?
Quote:We really don't care what you speak or what you eat in your day to day life... like *REALLY* don't care.
You personally might not care but the business world does. Around here, if you are bilingual, you are a more sought after. The corporate world isn't as backwards as some in this forum. They know full well the benefits of catering to Spanish speaking people.
Quote:I care that our law is always in a single language. Intent is sometimes damn hard to ferret out when we all speak the same thing, imagine how had it would be in a different languate.
Your government thinks otherwise. If you want people to follow your laws, shouldn't they be made clear to everyone? Why on earth would you want everyone to follow a law but then communicate what that law is only to one segment of your population.
Quote:I also care because I don't expect a NYC EMT to be able to triage people in any of the 800 languages spoken in NYC. Me wanting to be sure as many people speak English as possible has more to do with my desire for societal cohesion than it does any love for the language.
[/quote]
Last time I checked, people are living in NYC just fine. I live in ELP and down here, some people speak English only, some people speak Spanish only, and most people speak a little of both. No one that I know is struggling to live under these conditions.
(12-02-2016 12:09 PM)ark30inf Wrote: My folks came to US in 1839. They spoke German at home until around 1918 but I have found no records at city, state, or federal level for any of them in any language other than English.
I'm not worried about immigrant communities speaking the old languages for some period of time in private life, but having government cater to it in public life is just promoting/extending civic separatism IMO.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
These same arguments were made when Jews, Italians, and, of course, the Irish had large immigrant populations early last century.
So?
My family spoke German in their community and home for 80 years but had to deal with US civil society in English that whole time. I see no problem with either thing. But I see no purpose or benefit whatsoever for the US government to actively promote its longevity.
(12-02-2016 08:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: You choose to come to America. We speak English. Learn it....use it. You are not special. Where you come from is not important to us nor do we care about your heritage or customs. If I chose to move to Germany...I would learn to speak German and learn to be a GERMAN and respect its heritage and customs.
How fluent are you in Cherokee?
Europeans did not immigrate they invaded and colonized.... Are you saying that those coming here and not adapting are invading and colonizing?
(12-02-2016 10:59 AM)South Carolina Duke Wrote: I don't car about your Tacos, Fried Ice Cream. ...
I care about Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevrolet! My American Heritage is greater because you are in the USA not the hole that you fled.
(12-02-2016 08:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: You choose to come to America. We speak English. Learn it....use it. You are not special. Where you come from is not important to us nor do we care about your heritage or customs. If I chose to move to Germany...I would learn to speak German and learn to be a GERMAN and respect its heritage and customs.
(12-02-2016 12:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote: You personally might not care but the business world does. Around here, if you are bilingual, you are a more sought after. The corporate world isn't as backwards as some in this forum. They know full well the benefits of catering to Spanish speaking people.
Do you moonlight making scarecrows to fight or is this just a hobby?
Nobody said being bilingual was bad (I speak two languages and my kids are working on three)
Quote:Your government thinks otherwise. If you want people to follow your laws, shouldn't they be made clear to everyone?
Yes.... Hence they should be on one language because very damn often things, especially intent, does not translate neatly over.
Quote:Why on earth would you want everyone to follow a law but then communicate what that law is only to one segment of your population.
Hey look! another scare crow!
If you're bi lingual, and one of those languages is English, then putting the laws in English is still communicating it with you.
Quote:Last time I checked, people are living in NYC just fine. I live in ELP and down here, some people speak English only, some people speak Spanish only, and most people speak a little of both. No one that I know is struggling to live under these conditions.
Quote:On the night of November 10, 2014, a woman in her early 20s staggered into a Mexican restaurant in the rough southwest valley section of Albuquerque, bleeding profusely from a gunshot wound to the head. Employees of Taqueria El Paisa rushed to render aid and call 9-1-1.
The problem that quickly surfaced was that nobody who was calling the Bernalillo County Dispatch Center spoke English, and nobody at dispatch at the time of the call understood Spanish. Confusion ensued as employees frantically searched for someone who spoke English. Seconds turned into minutes—bystanders said the confusion caused a 10-minute response delay. Officials with Bernalillo County said it was four minutes.
...
Quote:When the emergency communications operator (ECO) asked for the address of the emergency, Gallegos says, the Spanish speaker asked, “Spanish?”
My in-laws barely speak English. I just spent a week visiting them and maybe exchanged 5 words in English with my father in law. My MIL used to work for the government so we can chat.
But my FIL, as limited as he is in English, can say "Help I need an ambulance, I live here"
One common language for government and government services is *vital* for a society to function and not fracture. I've no great love for the English language (or any European language for that matter) but it's what we speak.
(12-02-2016 12:09 PM)ark30inf Wrote: My folks came to US in 1839. They spoke German at home until around 1918 but I have found no records at city, state, or federal level for any of them in any language other than English.
I'm not worried about immigrant communities speaking the old languages for some period of time in private life, but having government cater to it in public life is just promoting/extending civic separatism IMO.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
These same arguments were made when Jews, Italians, and, of course, the Irish had large immigrant populations early last century.
So?
My family spoke German in their community and home for 80 years but had to deal with US civil society in English that whole time. I see no problem with either thing. But I see no purpose or benefit whatsoever for the US government to actively promote its longevity.
The point is that these things work themselves out without forcing humans to abide by an absurd law.
Additionally, many Amish continue to speak a dialect of German to this day (Pennsylvania Dutch). No one is forcing them to change.
(12-02-2016 08:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: You choose to come to America. We speak English. Learn it....use it. You are not special. Where you come from is not important to us nor do we care about your heritage or customs. If I chose to move to Germany...I would learn to speak German and learn to be a GERMAN and respect its heritage and customs.
We did choose to come to America and we have learned English. What more do you want? We may not be special but we do know two languages where many in this country only know one.
You don't have to care about our heritage and we don't have to care about yours. That doesn't mean however that we can't celebrate our heritage. If we want to speak Spanish or eat tacos or celebrate Cinco de Mayo why should you even care?
Tell me. Why do you care?
BS Fit. You are full of it. I see these MOFOs everywhere that refuse to learn English. My wife has to hire translators at the health department for them and so does every other government agency AND the hospitals. I could care less about their damn heritage any more than I do about any other. For some reason now the NEW immigrants want to have their cake and eat it too. Fck that. They need to assimilate?... or get the fck out of here and return to what ever schithole they came from.
I care? Because it COSTS to have people that refuse to assimilate. They are a fcking burden. We have PLENTY of people already here that are a damn burden on society. We dont need more. All I ask is they get their fcking schit together and be Americans....FIRST.
