(07-15-2019 06:07 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:56 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

Quote:I find your quote interesting - is it referring to AOC? If so, you may want to look up where AOC was born. If you think it's a shithole, well, you must not appreciate America either...

As I posted earlier, I realize she is 1st gen. And yes, I consider Puerto Rico to be a shithole. All the disadvantages of US wealth, Caribbean commercial base, and third world graft all rolled into one cute nice pile.

What are your thoughts on your travels to and interactions with Puerto Rico? I would be interested to hear.

It also refers to the Palestinian homeland (another home base for a 1st generation-er in the mix), and to Mogadishu (another home base for the direct immigrant in the group).

The are really only two advantages I see in PR over those two. The first is there is almost no chance of an RPG round coming into one's living room in PR. The second is, and it while it takes one a number of steps, a semblance of non-payola justice is available from PR; albeit one has to wait to get to the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals to really encounter the traditional notions of 'rule of law'.

Please do tell about your extensive interactions with PR that lead to your 'as good as the mainland US' POV. I am all ears. I think one very telling statistic is to look up the numbers of Puerto Ricans living in the mainland US and compare that to number living on the island. Even pre-hurricane those numbers tell a story all their own should you decide to do so.

Yes, Puerto Rico offers its citizens the unique ability to have US citizenship -- a definite plus. But, when you actually decide to interact with and engage in activities in PR, you would soon realize that your pithy comment doesnt have much grounding in fact.

Where did you post that she’s 1st gen? In the post I responded to, you referenced her as an immigrant, which is why I made my comment. You obviously knew what I was getting at (by stating that you said she was 1st gen), so why the long diatribe about PR? You spent a lot of time typing up that response to try and get me - sorry, you just wasted your time. I never tried to say PR was a prestige country without problems - I’ve been there a number of times over the years, primarily in San Juan..

I was only saying that AOC isn’t an immigrant, because your post lacked that obvious fact. I was being a smartass about how I said it.

Why the long diatribe about PR? Because its a shithole. Thats why. You seemed shocked that it was referred to as such.

And to be blunt, effectively people fleeing Puerto Rico are effectively immigrants. Call them internal immigrants. Maybe not immigrants in the strict legal sense since they enjoy birthright citizenship, albeit they do enjoy dual citizenship as a commonwealth sovereign.

In the number of times I have lived (yes lived) away from the US mainland for anything aside visiting and more than 10 days, very few times have I been more elated to return to the mainland US than from PR. Coastal rural Colombia during the advent of the narco wars was an equivalent sense of elation, and Angola was a good one. Angola beat PR in that sense.

Oh my, I am terrible -- I am incendiary; I am calling places 'shitholes'. How can I ever atone?

(07-15-2019 06:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 06:07 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:56 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

Quote:I find your quote interesting - is it referring to AOC? If so, you may want to look up where AOC was born. If you think it's a shithole, well, you must not appreciate America either...

As I posted earlier, I realize she is 1st gen. And yes, I consider Puerto Rico to be a shithole. All the disadvantages of US wealth, Caribbean commercial base, and third world graft all rolled into one cute nice pile.

What are your thoughts on your travels to and interactions with Puerto Rico? I would be interested to hear.

It also refers to the Palestinian homeland (another home base for a 1st generation-er in the mix), and to Mogadishu (another home base for the direct immigrant in the group).

The are really only two advantages I see in PR over those two. The first is there is almost no chance of an RPG round coming into one's living room in PR. The second is, and it while it takes one a number of steps, a semblance of non-payola justice is available from PR; albeit one has to wait to get to the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals to really encounter the traditional notions of 'rule of law'.

Please do tell about your extensive interactions with PR that lead to your 'as good as the mainland US' POV. I am all ears. I think one very telling statistic is to look up the numbers of Puerto Ricans living in the mainland US and compare that to number living on the island. Even pre-hurricane those numbers tell a story all their own should you decide to do so.

Yes, Puerto Rico offers its citizens the unique ability to have US citizenship -- a definite plus. But, when you actually decide to interact with and engage in activities in PR, you would soon realize that your pithy comment doesnt have much grounding in fact.

Where did you post that she’s 1st gen? In the post I responded to, you referenced her as an immigrant, which is why I made my comment. You obviously knew what I was getting at (by stating that you said she was 1st gen), so why the long diatribe about PR? You spent a lot of time typing up that response to try and get me - sorry, you just wasted your time. I never tried to say PR was a prestige country without problems - I’ve been there a number of times over the years, primarily in San Juan..

I was only saying that AOC isn’t an immigrant, because your post lacked that obvious fact. I was being a smartass about how I said it.

Why the long diatribe about PR? Because its a shithole. Thats why. You seemed shocked that it was referred to as such.

And to be blunt, effectively people fleeing Puerto Rico are effectively immigrants. Call them internal immigrants. Maybe not immigrants in the strict legal sense since they enjoy birthright citizenship, albeit they do enjoy dual citizenship as a commonwealth sovereign.

In the number of times I have lived (yes lived) away from the US mainland for anything aside visiting and more than 10 days, very few times have I been more elated to return to the mainland US than from PR. Coastal rural Colombia during the advent of the narco wars was an equivalent sense of elation, and Angola was a good one. Angola beat PR in that sense.

Oh my, I am terrible -- I am incendiary; I am calling places 'shitholes'. How can I ever atone?

Dude, AOC was born in New York. She wasn’t fleeing anything. I made my comment because you said she was one of three immigrants - that’s false.

(07-15-2019 05:45 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:36 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:33 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I think that AOC is rather interesting
. . . .
She is definitely representative of modern progressivism, . . .

Congratulations: that may be the most succinct warning of the danger posed by "progressivism" that I've ever seen. It is, to borrow Jefferson's memorable phrase,"like a fire bell in the night."

I only hope it is not, as stated in his very next sentence, "the knell of the Union."

What makes you say that regarding AOC?

Wow! If you're really that blind, no one can help you; if you're just pretending to be that blind, no one should bother.

Wow! Just asking for your perspective about what positions AOC has that make you think she is the death knell of the Union.

I assumed that since you had that position, you'd be able to explain to me why you think the progressives she represents are the death of the country.

I would be happy to explain it to you over beer -- and as you know, I've made that offer a couple of times. That's how real persuasion between opponents takes place: in conversation, not in opinion-grams.

I am not willing to type up a brief so that you can play both adversary and judge.

(07-15-2019 06:31 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Dude, AOC was born in New York. She wasn’t fleeing anything.

I know plenty of former New Yorkers who would describe their own experience as "fleeing".

(07-15-2019 06:31 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 06:13 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 06:07 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:56 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

Quote:I find your quote interesting - is it referring to AOC? If so, you may want to look up where AOC was born. If you think it's a shithole, well, you must not appreciate America either...

As I posted earlier, I realize she is 1st gen. And yes, I consider Puerto Rico to be a shithole. All the disadvantages of US wealth, Caribbean commercial base, and third world graft all rolled into one cute nice pile.

What are your thoughts on your travels to and interactions with Puerto Rico? I would be interested to hear.

It also refers to the Palestinian homeland (another home base for a 1st generation-er in the mix), and to Mogadishu (another home base for the direct immigrant in the group).

The are really only two advantages I see in PR over those two. The first is there is almost no chance of an RPG round coming into one's living room in PR. The second is, and it while it takes one a number of steps, a semblance of non-payola justice is available from PR; albeit one has to wait to get to the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals to really encounter the traditional notions of 'rule of law'.

Please do tell about your extensive interactions with PR that lead to your 'as good as the mainland US' POV. I am all ears. I think one very telling statistic is to look up the numbers of Puerto Ricans living in the mainland US and compare that to number living on the island. Even pre-hurricane those numbers tell a story all their own should you decide to do so.

Yes, Puerto Rico offers its citizens the unique ability to have US citizenship -- a definite plus. But, when you actually decide to interact with and engage in activities in PR, you would soon realize that your pithy comment doesnt have much grounding in fact.

Where did you post that she’s 1st gen? In the post I responded to, you referenced her as an immigrant, which is why I made my comment. You obviously knew what I was getting at (by stating that you said she was 1st gen), so why the long diatribe about PR? You spent a lot of time typing up that response to try and get me - sorry, you just wasted your time. I never tried to say PR was a prestige country without problems - I’ve been there a number of times over the years, primarily in San Juan..

I was only saying that AOC isn’t an immigrant, because your post lacked that obvious fact. I was being a smartass about how I said it.

Why the long diatribe about PR? Because its a shithole. Thats why. You seemed shocked that it was referred to as such.

And to be blunt, effectively people fleeing Puerto Rico are effectively immigrants. Call them internal immigrants. Maybe not immigrants in the strict legal sense since they enjoy birthright citizenship, albeit they do enjoy dual citizenship as a commonwealth sovereign.

In the number of times I have lived (yes lived) away from the US mainland for anything aside visiting and more than 10 days, very few times have I been more elated to return to the mainland US than from PR. Coastal rural Colombia during the advent of the narco wars was an equivalent sense of elation, and Angola was a good one. Angola beat PR in that sense.

Oh my, I am terrible -- I am incendiary; I am calling places 'shitholes'. How can I ever atone?

Dude, AOC was born in New York. She wasn’t fleeing anything. I made my comment because you said she was one of three immigrants - that’s false.

I believe I said she was 1st gen. Did that not register with you? Her mother is a direct Puerto Rican, father 1st gen.

Here is what I typed:

Quote: As I posted earlier, I realize she is 1st gen.

Excuse the fk out of me for not stating with sufficient particularity that she is definitely part of an immigrant 'family'. Is that good enough for you now? Or is there another bouncy house that you are going to start to wind up in next? Good fing grief.

Initially I noted that Omar was the only 'true' immigrant as coming straight from her own particular locale. I guess with your vaunted reading comprehension that preen so much about that you missed that one, eh? Or did you just ignore it?

Any other nitpicks you want to address?

Quote:(of course a paraphrase, so we dont go down the incessant 'thats NOT what I said' merry-go-round --- or bounce house as the case may be).

God that statement of mine was prescient.

(07-15-2019 06:31 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:45 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:36 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:33 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Congratulations: that may be the most succinct warning of the danger posed by "progressivism" that I've ever seen. It is, to borrow Jefferson's memorable phrase,"like a fire bell in the night."

I only hope it is not, as stated in his very next sentence, "the knell of the Union."

What makes you say that regarding AOC?

Wow! If you're really that blind, no one can help you; if you're just pretending to be that blind, no one should bother.

Wow! Just asking for your perspective about what positions AOC has that make you think she is the death knell of the Union.

I assumed that since you had that position, you'd be able to explain to me why you think the progressives she represents are the death of the country.

I would be happy to explain it to you over beer -- and as you know, I've made that offer a couple of times. That's how real persuasion between opponents takes place: in conversation, not in opinion-grams.

I am not willing to type up a brief so that you can play both adversary and judge.

Fair enough - didn’t think it was too much of a request, but I definitely understand that the conversation would be better in person, as opposed to on this forum (honestly, that probably applies to 90% of the stuff in the Quad).

I see where 93 left off part of Trump's tweet.

93 stated that Trump said "go back to where you came from". (full stop)

Here is what 93 noted was said

Quote:Pretty bad look this morning for Trump to tell four US Congresswomen to “go back where they came from” via tweet. Three of these Congresswomen were born in the United States.

Trump *actually* tweeted:

Quote:"Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....."

"it is done. These places need your help badly, [remainder omitted]."

Tsk, tsk, tsk, 93.
Funny, how what was omitted that seems to change the context quite markedly, doesnt it? Reminder to self: actually check 93's assertions of quotes from now one.....

here is the link to the base material... I suggest you provide such a link on further items you quote, 93.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...6994723841

Funny how the actual full text seems to really detract from your impassioned position of being not racist, but 'hard edged immigration talk' (or somefink like that).

Bluntly, if I pulled that stunt in court, I would be sanctioned. If you did this via a blind post (i.e. you blindly posted the snippet without checking), 93, we will accept your apologies for quoting a very incomplete and fairly misleading snippet.

If you knew the quote in full: shame on you.

For any prog that broadcast the snippet without the rest, shame on them.

I know I saw this done on CNN today. And you on the left wonder why those on the right are convinced of a very active and liberal bias in the media......

(07-15-2019 08:27 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I see where 93 left off part of Trump's tweet.

93 stated that Trump said "go back to where you came from". (full stop)

Here is what 93 noted was said

Quote:Pretty bad look this morning for Trump to tell four US Congresswomen to “go back where they came from” via tweet. Three of these Congresswomen were born in the United States.

Trump *actually* tweeted:

Quote:"Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....."

"it is done. These places need your help badly, [remainder omitted]."

Tsk, tsk, tsk, 93.
Funny, how what was omitted that seems to change the context quite markedly, doesnt it? Reminder to self: actually check 93's assertions of quotes from now one.....

here is the link to the base material... I suggest you provide such a link on further items you quote, 93.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...6994723841

Funny how the actual full text seems to really detract from your impassioned position of being not racist, but 'hard edged immigration talk' (or somefink like that).

Bluntly, if I pulled that stunt in court, I would be sanctioned. If you did this via a blind post (i.e. you blindly posted the snippet without checking), 93, we will accept your apologies for quoting a very incomplete and fairly misleading snippet.

If you knew the quote in full: shame on you.

For any prog that broadcast the snippet without the rest, shame on them.

I know I saw this done on CNN today. And you on the left wonder why those on the right are convinced of a very active and liberal bias in the media......

So the thesis is that since Trump said they should come back, it changes what about the statement? Don't quite follow (could be that I was working this entire weekend, and maybe it was covered Saturday or Sunday).

Lolz...


If you can't understand the contextual difference between:

"Go back to where you came from"; and

"Go back, fix things, them come back and tell us how to do it";

then I really dont know what to say.

If you dont understand the implications of playing 'hide the monkey' with the remainder, then again, I dont really know what to say.

Edited to add: I now find the news conference by the 'squad' to be utterly and abjectly misleading; they continuously repeat the phrase 'go back to where you came from' as a racist comment.

It is a New Yorker taunt -- i.e. you think you can do a better job, go there, fix, come back, and tell us how to do it.

Their news conference on this is abjectly misleading in pretty much all respects.

And the beautiful thing is that all the far lefties (i.e. the now mainstream) are circling the wagons around the squad and holding these four up as their workhorses. I didnt think the Dems could, as a whole. go any further left, but Trump in the past two days has forced them to do just that. I am chuckling at this.......

He has literally pushed the entire Democratic party into being the staunchest defenders of the most radical haters this country has at the moment. This is really funny as hell....

(07-15-2019 10:35 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Lad and 93 are throwing around the word's "his base". I would like to hear them each define who is Trump's base?

I would guess they would think I am part of Trump's base, since I intend to vote for him in 2020 (I did not vote for him in 2016).

So in listing people who are are part of Trump's base, I would start with people who are happy with the direction of of this country economically.
Add those happy we finally have a "stand up to them" leader on foreign policy.
Add those who cannot find anything in the Democrats that they think is important and feasible.
Note, please the list does not include anybody yet who cheers when he tweets.

Now, Lad and 93, please feel free to fill out the list with your own descriptors.

Why am I 99.9 per cent positive neither 93 nor lad will come within a light year of *any* attempt of a definition of a Trump base, or Trump supporter? Even when they so blithely toss around the phrase being absolutely sure of what it will like and appreciate...) lolz.

Long day at work. Going through the thread and will respond to this.

Lad said "I would define his base as those who support Trump and what he does, without a critical eye. Those that support the person over the policies and platform. I wouldn’t consider anyone on this board, despite the very regular defenses of the man, part of his base."

I like this definition and I cosign it. I think that sums it up quite well. I would add that when I think of his base, I think of people who feel disenfranchised or feel that they have fallen to the wayside of the American dream. Perhaps they have lost jobs to automation or to companies moving overseas. They may feel out-of-step with contemporary whims and feel confused or angry about the normalization of PC/"woke" culture. They don't understand urban liberals and they are convinced that these "elites" scoff at them. They are pretty sure that liberals want to take away all of their guns. They may have a particular problem with immigration policy and feel that immigrants have somehow made their standard of living poorer.

I see them as seeing Trump as their champion and they celebrate the way that he speaks in a decidedly non-PC way and the way that he goes hard after the his opponents. Like Lad said, basically they don't feel that Trump can do any wrong. As Trump said, if he shot a person on 5th Avenue they would still support him.

Probably not a great "definition" and it's off-the-cuff. Certainly there may be many who vote for Trump who share some of these characteristics (pissed off about immigration) while not being part of his base. I'm trying to paint a picture of what I think of when I think of his base.

I don't think that they are all low-IQ mouth-breathers. Some of my extended family members make up his base. As I stated before, I don't consider anybody on this thread part of Trump's base.

Does this help?

(07-15-2019 08:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lolz...


If you can't understand the contextual difference between:

"Go back to where you came from"; and

"Go back, fix things, them come back and tell us how to do it";

then I really dont know what to say.

If you dont understand the implications of playing 'hide the monkey' with the remainder, then again, I dont really know what to say.

So by saying these women (some of which aren't even immigrants) can come back, his statement is appropriate?

I didn't realize it was so easy to get away with being such a ****** person and saying such ****** things - you can wipe away any the **** by laying down a single flower petal.

Trump was wrong for incorrectly identifying multiple women of color as immigrants. Why did he think AOC was an immigrant? Trump was also wrong to pull out the racist/xenophobic trope of "go back where you came from," and a single throwaway line of "come back" doesn't provide him a get out of jail free card.

You seem to be perfectly willing to say Trump is crass, but why try and defend this statement? It's actually resulted in quite a few Republicans speaking out because of how gross and thoughtless it was.

(07-15-2019 08:59 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 10:35 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 09:48 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Lad and 93 are throwing around the word's "his base". I would like to hear them each define who is Trump's base?

I would guess they would think I am part of Trump's base, since I intend to vote for him in 2020 (I did not vote for him in 2016).

So in listing people who are are part of Trump's base, I would start with people who are happy with the direction of of this country economically.
Add those happy we finally have a "stand up to them" leader on foreign policy.
Add those who cannot find anything in the Democrats that they think is important and feasible.
Note, please the list does not include anybody yet who cheers when he tweets.

Now, Lad and 93, please feel free to fill out the list with your own descriptors.

Why am I 99.9 per cent positive neither 93 nor lad will come within a light year of *any* attempt of a definition of a Trump base, or Trump supporter? Even when they so blithely toss around the phrase being absolutely sure of what it will like and appreciate...) lolz.

Long day at work. Going through the thread and will respond to this.

Lad said "I would define his base as those who support Trump and what he does, without a critical eye. Those that support the person over the policies and platform. I wouldn’t consider anyone on this board, despite the very regular defenses of the man, part of his base."

I like this definition and I cosign it. I think that sums it up quite well. I would add that when I think of his base, I think of people who feel disenfranchised or feel that they have fallen to the wayside of the American dream. Perhaps they have lost jobs to automation or to companies moving overseas. They may feel out-of-step with contemporary whims and feel confused or angry about the normalization of PC/"woke" culture. They don't understand urban liberals and they are convinced that these "elites" scoff at them. They are pretty sure that liberals want to take away all of their guns. They may have a particular problem with immigration policy and feel that immigrants have somehow made their standard of living poorer.

I see them as seeing Trump as their champion and they celebrate the way that he speaks in a decidedly non-PC way and the way that he goes hard after the his opponents. Like Lad said, basically they don't feel that Trump can do any wrong. As Trump said, if he shot a person on 5th Avenue they would still support him.

Probably not a great "definition" and it's off-the-cuff. Certainly there may be many who vote for Trump who share some of these characteristics (pissed off about immigration) while not being part of his base. I'm trying to paint a picture of what I think of when I think of his base.

I don't think that they are all low-IQ mouth-breathers. Some of my extended family members make up his base. As I stated before, I don't consider anybody on this thread part of Trump's base.

Does this help?

My guess is no, and that you're going to be called smug in a few posts.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(07-15-2019 08:27 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I see where 93 left off part of Trump's tweet.

93 stated that Trump said "go back to where you came from". (full stop)

Here is what 93 noted was said

Quote:Pretty bad look this morning for Trump to tell four US Congresswomen to “go back where they came from” via tweet. Three of these Congresswomen were born in the United States.

Trump *actually* tweeted:

Quote:"Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....."

"it is done. These places need your help badly, [remainder omitted]."

Tsk, tsk, tsk, 93.
Funny, how what was omitted that seems to change the context quite markedly, doesnt it? Reminder to self: actually check 93's assertions of quotes from now one.....

here is the link to the base material... I suggest you provide such a link on further items you quote, 93.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...6994723841

Funny how the actual full text seems to really detract from your impassioned position of being not racist, but 'hard edged immigration talk' (or somefink like that).

Does it, though? I don't think so. I guess I was thinking that everybody would have (or would be seeing) the tweets because it was blew up the news cycle. I was not trying to "report the news" but simply comment on it. I can honestly tell you that I did not try to finesse the quote to make it more favorable for my argument. I typically do post links and I will do so in the future when referencing a news story.

*edit* Looking back at my original post I put "go back where they came from" in quotes as in: he was basically telling them to "go back where they came from" in not so many words. I can see how it looks like I was attempting to quote him directly. My bad.

Quote:Bluntly, if I pulled that stunt in court, I would be sanctioned.

OK. If I spoke to people at my job like you speak to people on here I would be fired.
Lucky for both of us, the standards of the Rice Parliament are not those of our places of employment.

Quote:If you did this via a blind post (i.e. you blindly posted the snippet without checking), 93, we will accept your apologies for quoting a very incomplete and fairly misleading snippet.

See above.

(07-15-2019 07:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 06:31 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:45 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:36 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:33 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  What makes you say that regarding AOC?

Wow! If you're really that blind, no one can help you; if you're just pretending to be that blind, no one should bother.

Wow! Just asking for your perspective about what positions AOC has that make you think she is the death knell of the Union.

I assumed that since you had that position, you'd be able to explain to me why you think the progressives she represents are the death of the country.

I would be happy to explain it to you over beer -- and as you know, I've made that offer a couple of times. That's how real persuasion between opponents takes place: in conversation, not in opinion-grams.

I am not willing to type up a brief so that you can play both adversary and judge.

Fair enough - didn’t think it was too much of a request, but I definitely understand that the conversation would be better in person, as opposed to on this forum (honestly, that probably applies to 90% of the stuff in the Quad).

One other factor which you could not have known, and which I forget to mention: for me, crafting a written argument on someone else's demand is too much like work! When someone asks me to do that, no matter how much I've enjoyed the banter until then, it just sucks the fun right out of it.

(07-15-2019 09:26 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 07:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 06:31 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:45 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 05:36 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Wow! If you're really that blind, no one can help you; if you're just pretending to be that blind, no one should bother.

Wow! Just asking for your perspective about what positions AOC has that make you think she is the death knell of the Union.

I assumed that since you had that position, you'd be able to explain to me why you think the progressives she represents are the death of the country.

I would be happy to explain it to you over beer -- and as you know, I've made that offer a couple of times. That's how real persuasion between opponents takes place: in conversation, not in opinion-grams.

I am not willing to type up a brief so that you can play both adversary and judge.

Fair enough - didn’t think it was too much of a request, but I definitely understand that the conversation would be better in person, as opposed to on this forum (honestly, that probably applies to 90% of the stuff in the Quad).

One other factor which you could not have known, and which I forget to mention: for me, crafting a written argument on someone else's demand is too much like work! When someone asks me to do that, no matter how much I've enjoyed the banter until then, it just sucks the fun right out of it.

I agree. And I don't even have to do that sort of thing for work.

I did it just now re: Tanq's request for my definition of Trump's base and (like Lad said) it will likely result in nothing but internet forum grief for me!

(07-15-2019 09:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 08:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lolz...


If you can't understand the contextual difference between:

"Go back to where you came from"; and

"Go back, fix things, them come back and tell us how to do it";

then I really dont know what to say.

If you dont understand the implications of playing 'hide the monkey' with the remainder, then again, I dont really know what to say.

So by saying these women (some of which aren't even immigrants) can come back, his statement is appropriate?

I didn't realize it was so easy to get away with being such a ****** person and saying such ****** things - you can wipe away any the **** by laying down a single flower petal.

Trump was wrong for incorrectly identifying multiple women of color as immigrants. Why did he think AOC was an immigrant? Trump was also wrong to pull out the racist/xenophobic trope of "go back where you came from," and a single throwaway line of "come back" doesn't provide him a get out of jail free card.

You seem to be perfectly willing to say Trump is crass, but why try and defend this statement? It's actually resulted in quite a few Republicans speaking out because of how gross and thoughtless it was.

The only thing you have made crystal clear is that you have zero clue as to a New Yorker taunt: "you think you can do a better job, go there, fix a bad part of the world, come back, and tell us how to do it." Are you *that* naive that you havent ever heard that? Seriously?

Funny thing here, that restructure thing I had to do this weekend: I said the *exact* same thing...... lolololololololololol.

Hey, as for 'quite a few', I was one of them. When you chop, snip, and edit it down to 'go back home Paco', yes it seems that way. But that isnt what was said, was it?

And you all *had* to chop, snip, and edit it down to that, didnt you? Lolz..... this is friggin' hilarious...... Hey, just edit the crap out of anything said to get it to say what you want...... this is absolutely delicious!!!!

Let me get this straight: telling someone who is continuously criticizing to 'hey go back, fix it, come back and do a better job' is *now* racist *and* and ********* thing to say..... this is really funny stuff.

Hey lad, what lines are you all going to edit the **** out of next time to try and get the response you want? Lolz.

(07-15-2019 09:31 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 09:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 08:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lolz...


If you can't understand the contextual difference between:

"Go back to where you came from"; and

"Go back, fix things, them come back and tell us how to do it";

then I really dont know what to say.

If you dont understand the implications of playing 'hide the monkey' with the remainder, then again, I dont really know what to say.

So by saying these women (some of which aren't even immigrants) can come back, his statement is appropriate?

I didn't realize it was so easy to get away with being such a ****** person and saying such ****** things - you can wipe away any the **** by laying down a single flower petal.

Trump was wrong for incorrectly identifying multiple women of color as immigrants. Why did he think AOC was an immigrant? Trump was also wrong to pull out the racist/xenophobic trope of "go back where you came from," and a single throwaway line of "come back" doesn't provide him a get out of jail free card.

You seem to be perfectly willing to say Trump is crass, but why try and defend this statement? It's actually resulted in quite a few Republicans speaking out because of how gross and thoughtless it was.

The only thing you have made crystal clear is that you have zero clue as to a New Yorker taunt: "you think you can do a better job, go there, fix a bad part of the world, come back, and tell us how to do it." Are you *that* naive that you havent ever heard that? Seriously?

Funny thing here, that restructure thing I had to do this weekend: I said the *exact* same thing...... lolololololololololol.

Hey, as for 'quite a few', I was one of them. When you chop, snip, and edit it down to 'go back home Paco', yes it seems that way. But that isnt what was said, was it?

And you all *had* to chop, snip, and edit it down to that, didnt you? Lolz..... this is friggin' hilarious...... Hey, just edit the crap out of anything said to get it to say what you want...... this is absolutely delicious!!!!

Let me get this straight: telling someone who is continuously criticizing to 'hey go back, fix it, come back and do a better job' is *now* racist *and* and ********* thing to say..... this is really funny stuff.

Hey lad, what lines are you all going to edit the **** out of next time to try and get the response you want? Lolz.

Man, you love taking liberties with what you read. I didn’t edit anything. It was pretty clear that what i said was that Trump throwing in a get out of jail free line (which he does all the time), isn’t cutting it.

Again, why did he tell AOC to go back where she came from? She comes from New York. Can you explain why he said she should do that?

(07-15-2019 09:31 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 09:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 08:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lolz...


If you can't understand the contextual difference between:

"Go back to where you came from"; and

"Go back, fix things, them come back and tell us how to do it";

then I really dont know what to say.

If you dont understand the implications of playing 'hide the monkey' with the remainder, then again, I dont really know what to say.

So by saying these women (some of which aren't even immigrants) can come back, his statement is appropriate?

I didn't realize it was so easy to get away with being such a ****** person and saying such ****** things - you can wipe away any the **** by laying down a single flower petal.

Trump was wrong for incorrectly identifying multiple women of color as immigrants. Why did he think AOC was an immigrant? Trump was also wrong to pull out the racist/xenophobic trope of "go back where you came from," and a single throwaway line of "come back" doesn't provide him a get out of jail free card.

You seem to be perfectly willing to say Trump is crass, but why try and defend this statement? It's actually resulted in quite a few Republicans speaking out because of how gross and thoughtless it was.

The only thing you have made crystal clear is that you have zero clue as to a New Yorker taunt: "you think you can do a better job, go there, fix a bad part of the world, come back, and tell us how to do it." Are you *that* naive that you havent ever heard that? Seriously?

Funny thing here, that restructure thing I had to do this weekend: I said the *exact* same thing...... lolololololololololol.

Hey, as for 'quite a few', I was one of them. When you chop, snip, and edit it down to 'go back home Paco', yes it seems that way. But that isnt what was said, was it?

And you all *had* to chop, snip, and edit it down to that, didnt you? Lolz..... this is friggin' hilarious...... Hey, just edit the crap out of anything said to get it to say what you want...... this is absolutely delicious!!!!

Let me get this straight: telling someone who is continuously criticizing to 'hey go back, fix it, come back and do a better job' is *now* racist *and* and ********* thing to say..... this is really funny stuff.

So telling people who were born in America: *EXACT TRUMP QUOTE* "Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...6994723841

Implying that they didn't come from America but they came from a different (probably s...h...) country. These are Americans, correct? Why would they go to a different country? Because their parents were from there? You think that's OK? Just some New Yorker blunt talk?

(07-15-2019 09:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 08:27 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I see where 93 left off part of Trump's tweet.

93 stated that Trump said "go back to where you came from". (full stop)

Here is what 93 noted was said

Quote:Pretty bad look this morning for Trump to tell four US Congresswomen to “go back where they came from” via tweet. Three of these Congresswomen were born in the United States.

Trump *actually* tweeted:

Quote:"Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....."

"it is done. These places need your help badly, [remainder omitted]."

Tsk, tsk, tsk, 93.
Funny, how what was omitted that seems to change the context quite markedly, doesnt it? Reminder to self: actually check 93's assertions of quotes from now one.....

here is the link to the base material... I suggest you provide such a link on further items you quote, 93.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...6994723841

Funny how the actual full text seems to really detract from your impassioned position of being not racist, but 'hard edged immigration talk' (or somefink like that).

Does it, though? I don't think so. I guess I was thinking that everybody would have (or would be seeing) the tweets because it was blew up the news cycle. I was not trying to "report the news" but simply comment on it. I can honestly tell you that I did not try to finesse the quote to make it more favorable for my argument. I typically do post links and I will do so in the future when referencing a news story.

*edit* Looking back at my original post I put "go back where they came from" in quotes as in: he was basically telling them to "go back where they came from" in not so many words. I can see how it looks like I was attempting to quote him directly. My bad.

Np sir.

Quote:

Quote:Bluntly, if I pulled that stunt in court, I would be sanctioned.

OK. If I spoke to people at my job like you speak to people on here I would be fired.
Lucky for both of us, the standards of the Rice Parliament are not those of our places of employment.

As being salty, I stand guilty. Talk to my boss about it, he's an ******* and will fire me.

But, there is a significant difference between being salty and coming off as..... misleading. The edit truly did make it seem like something else entirely.

I now understand our non-congruent posts on the content of the comment; you are correct in your first comments to me is that it doesnt appear racist. Hopefully you can understand why I was making those assumptions given what was in quotes.

I will take you at your word, and accept your comments above.

As for the comments being 'a-sholish' -- I see them in the full context as a New York taunt. Given my profession I see the 'yeah, why dont *you* try and do a better job' three times a week and twice on Saturday. So I am probably a bit more inured to that context than you.

And given the 'tauntiness' (is that a real word? apologies if not, dont let lad see it since he will go off on me like Krakatoa for my grammar I would assume), I dont see it either as a hard-edged comment on immigration (or race for that matter).

I do see it as a hard-edged comment on "perhaps y'all are running your mouth a tad too much in light of your experience, and perhaps y'all are a little quick on the draw with everything in the world and god's creation being racist, including Nancy Pelosi".

The funny thing is that the 'squad' replied with the stock answer racist comment -- the exact quoted text that you originally posted.

For their sake, it really has to suck to have to edit, chop, and alter something down to make it racist in nature. One looks really stupid as hell when you employ artifice to do that.

Thanks for your response. I'll toast you with my bourbon in about 20.

(07-15-2019 09:39 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 09:31 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 09:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 08:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Lolz...


If you can't understand the contextual difference between:

"Go back to where you came from"; and

"Go back, fix things, them come back and tell us how to do it";

then I really dont know what to say.

If you dont understand the implications of playing 'hide the monkey' with the remainder, then again, I dont really know what to say.

So by saying these women (some of which aren't even immigrants) can come back, his statement is appropriate?

I didn't realize it was so easy to get away with being such a ****** person and saying such ****** things - you can wipe away any the **** by laying down a single flower petal.

Trump was wrong for incorrectly identifying multiple women of color as immigrants. Why did he think AOC was an immigrant? Trump was also wrong to pull out the racist/xenophobic trope of "go back where you came from," and a single throwaway line of "come back" doesn't provide him a get out of jail free card.

You seem to be perfectly willing to say Trump is crass, but why try and defend this statement? It's actually resulted in quite a few Republicans speaking out because of how gross and thoughtless it was.

The only thing you have made crystal clear is that you have zero clue as to a New Yorker taunt: "you think you can do a better job, go there, fix a bad part of the world, come back, and tell us how to do it." Are you *that* naive that you havent ever heard that? Seriously?

Funny thing here, that restructure thing I had to do this weekend: I said the *exact* same thing...... lolololololololololol.

Hey, as for 'quite a few', I was one of them. When you chop, snip, and edit it down to 'go back home Paco', yes it seems that way. But that isnt what was said, was it?

And you all *had* to chop, snip, and edit it down to that, didnt you? Lolz..... this is friggin' hilarious...... Hey, just edit the crap out of anything said to get it to say what you want...... this is absolutely delicious!!!!

Let me get this straight: telling someone who is continuously criticizing to 'hey go back, fix it, come back and do a better job' is *now* racist *and* and ********* thing to say..... this is really funny stuff.

So telling people who were born in America: *EXACT TRUMP QUOTE* "Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...6994723841

Actually -- that is *not* the "EXACT TRUMP QUOTE"; you are still doing the "edit, chop", but at least left off the "alter". Perhaps try again with a more complete version. I actually provided one above --- one that isnt chopped to all hell.

And for completeness, the statement should be finished with: 'and come back and tell us how to [fix it]'.

Cmon, stop with the edit, chop, alter. Doesnt do anyone any good in this context.

Quote:Implying that they didn't come from America but they came from a different (probably s...h...) country. These are Americans, correct? Why would they go to a different country? Because their parents were from there? You think that's OK? Just some New Yorker blunt talk?

Bluntly, what Trump said was pretty much: "Y'all came from some bad places. Funny that you are the ones bitching and moaning abut how *bad* the United States is, given the state of where you and/or your ancestors (fairly fresh) came from. Since you all have all the answers on why the United States is sooooooooo bad and y'all have *all* the answers --- there is a great petri dish that y'all can try to fix. Go fix it. Then tell us what those results are"

If the 'squad' had deep roots in Detroit I am absolutely positive he would have described Detroit as such a petri dish to do a beter hob with, along with the shithole intimations that Detroit so easily seems partnered with in these times.

Since the 'squad' were either immigrants (Omar), and two others families were from Palestinian lands and Puerto Rico within one generation, one would hazard a guess that most immigrants (or within one generation) would actually relish America. But lets face it --- Omar, OAC, and Talib are amazing examples of toxic pits of vitriol --- to the extent that their own whacked out party shuns them for it......

Most immigrants I run across, interact with, and work with absolutely love the hell out their new environments; and Trump did a job in showing their complete antithesis to that from the squad.

Considering the squad's impunity with respect to their own toxicity, you know what? Blunt talk in light of that monolith of toxicity I really dont have an issue with. Perhaps you do.

As I noted, that blunt talk put the *entire* Democratic party in alignment with these four horsemen of the toxicolypse; the 'squad' is *now* the standard bearer for the Democratic party. It is really hilarious.

So far in July Trump has forced the Democrats to: a) come out against Fourth of July, b) come out against Betsy Ross, c) come out against the original flag of the nation, and now d) forced them to adopt the toxic four as the people whose values that they are deeply defending. Wow.

I mean, lets go for a clean sweep. Call Francis Scott Key a fascist; or better yet, make sure that apple pie is a symbol of oppression and should be banned. It is amazing what the Orange Monster is making the progressives go on record as being against, and being for. This is absolutely hilarious........