(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

Actually they are equally as opposed to *any* form of supposed alt-right as well, not *just* those of the white nationalist variety mind you.

By the way, you do know that not all people of the 'alt-right' are 'white nationalists', right? Or, is it just easy for you to conflate the former as being exclusively the latter?

Here is primer for you on the patriot prayer group:

Quote:Patriot Prayer describes itself as advocating in favor of free speech, and opposing big government.

Is being in favor of free speech and opposing big government now de facto proof of white nationalism?

Here is another

Quote:A Facebook message by Patriot Prayer states that “no extremists will be allowed in” to its Liberty Weekend events. It continues: “No Nazis, Communists, KKK, Antifa, white supremacists, i.e. or white nationalists.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/adopt-a-nazi-...ayer-rally

Or does the fact that they strongly support Trump make them automatically 'racist' and/or 'white nationalist'?

I bring this up because of the redemptive qualities of Antifa, and Portland Antifa in particular seem to be able to make violently bashing into patriot prayer rallies a medal event at the dipshit Olympics.

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  By the way, you do know that not all people of the 'alt-right' are 'white nationalists', right? Or, is it just easy for you to conflate the former as being exclusively the latter?

Here is primer for you on the patriot prayer group:

Quote:Patriot Prayer describes itself as advocating in favor of free speech, and opposing big government.

Is being in favor of free speech and opposing big government now de facto proof of white nationalism?

Here is another

Quote:A Facebook message by Patriot Prayer states that “no extremists will be allowed in” to its Liberty Weekend events. It continues: “No Nazis, Communists, KKK, Antifa, white supremacists, i.e. or white nationalists.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/adopt-a-nazi-...ayer-rally

Or does the fact that they strongly support Trump make them automatically 'racist' and/or 'white nationalist'?

I am aware that not all supporters of the alt-right are white nationalists. I absolutely don't believe that if you support Trump then you are automatically racist.

I don't know if Patriot Prayer is simply an alt-right group or actually a white nationalist group. I do know the the Proud Boys are a white nationalist group and that they were also involved in this recent skirmish in Portland that we are discussing.

Here is another link that might provide you with further background on Patriot Prayer.

https://truthout.org/articles/how-patrio...-portland/

Some pertinent quotes:

"Over the next year and a half after becoming a public force, Patriot Prayer began inviting others in the far right to join in their public events — the kind of call white nationalists are always primed for. Open white supremacy is generally unpopular in the US. To gain a connection to the mass culture, white supremacists require a crossover point, a group of people close enough to their ideas and built into the larger conservative social framework to help move them onto a public stage."

and further down the article:

"While a large Trump contingent drew Gibson toward the Oregon GOP, he refused to disassociate himself from the large “alt-right” contingent that had started joining his events. Instead, he acted as a de facto organizer, providing them a platform and access to his conservative following. Gibson was, for all practical purposes, their most effective tool for growth. His own politics mattered little as his movement has functioned as a Trojan horse for actual white nationalism, facilitating its growth and expansion.

The most famous of his followers, however, has been Jeremy Christian, who was accused of murdering two people on public transit as they were attempting to de-escalate his Islamophobic attack on two women. Only days after the stabbings, Gibson decided to hold another one of his “free speech” rallies, almost identical to the one that Christian had attended months earlier."

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

This brings up something I have noticed in all the lefties here - everything seems predicated of racism.

I am a conservative who opposes racism, and a lot of other isms as well. Yet sometimes it seems the left thinks they are the only ones opposing racism and all who oppose the left are racists - thus the statements about the basket of delporables, or Obama's statement (And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.}

Antipathy toward people who aren't like them? Seven words to call us racist.

heck, what does the name Antifa mean?

.

(05-05-2019 04:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

This brings up something I have noticed in all the lefties here - everything seems predicated of racism.

I am a conservative who opposes racism, and a lot of other isms as well. Yet sometimes it seems the left thinks they are the only ones opposing racism and all who oppose the left are racists - thus the statements about the basket of delporables, or Obama's statement (And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.}

Antipathy toward people who aren't like them? Seven words to call us racist.

heck, what does the name Antifa mean?

.

I thought everything was predicated on victimhood?

(05-05-2019 04:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

This brings up something I have noticed in all the lefties here - everything seems predicated of racism.

I am a conservative who opposes racism, and a lot of other isms as well. Yet sometimes it seems the left thinks they are the only ones opposing racism and all who oppose the left are racists - thus the statements about the basket of delporables, or Obama's statement (And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.}

Antipathy toward people who aren't like them? Seven words to call us racist.

heck, what does the name Antifa mean?

.

I can see how you feel this way. I have a similar feeling that the right thinks that they are the only ones who are patriotic or that support members of our military.

(05-05-2019 04:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  By the way, you do know that not all people of the 'alt-right' are 'white nationalists', right? Or, is it just easy for you to conflate the former as being exclusively the latter?

Here is primer for you on the patriot prayer group:

Quote:Patriot Prayer describes itself as advocating in favor of free speech, and opposing big government.

Is being in favor of free speech and opposing big government now de facto proof of white nationalism?

Here is another

Quote:A Facebook message by Patriot Prayer states that “no extremists will be allowed in” to its Liberty Weekend events. It continues: “No Nazis, Communists, KKK, Antifa, white supremacists, i.e. or white nationalists.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/adopt-a-nazi-...ayer-rally

Or does the fact that they strongly support Trump make them automatically 'racist' and/or 'white nationalist'?

I am aware that not all supporters of the alt-right are white nationalists. I absolutely don't believe that if you support Trump then you are automatically racist.

I don't know if Patriot Prayer is simply an alt-right group or actually a white nationalist group. I do know the the Proud Boys are a white nationalist group and that they were also involved in this recent skirmish in Portland that we are discussing.

Here is another link that might provide you with further background on Patriot Prayer.

https://truthout.org/articles/how-patrio...-portland/

Some pertinent quotes:

Oooohhh...... quotes -- goody.

Quote:"Over the next year and a half after becoming a public force, Patriot Prayer began inviting others in the far right to join in their public events

Oh lordy lordy...... they "invit[ed] others in the far right to join their public events." Wow, inviting 'others' is really fing damning.....

Quote: — the kind of call white nationalists are always primed for.

Oh my. Seems more innuendo at this point.

Quote:Open white supremacy is generally unpopular in the US. To gain a connection to the mass culture, white supremacists require a crossover point, a group of people close enough to their ideas and built into the larger conservative social framework to help move them onto a public stage."

So they had the fing *temerity* to invote "others" in the far right. Oh my god!!!!!! That really gd proves it.....

Quote:and further down the article:

Hope there is a little more than the nothingburger with a crap ton of innuendo that you provided as 'proof' above -- lets proceed ---

Quote:"While a large Trump contingent drew Gibson toward the Oregon GOP, he refused to disassociate himself from the large “alt-right” contingent that had started joining his events.

I guess in you knee jerk think that every portion of the 'alt-right' is de facto 'whate nationalist' this might be probative. Funny that.

Quote:Instead, he acted as a de facto organizer, providing them a platform and access to his conservative following. Gibson was, for all practical purposes, their most effective tool for growth. His own politics mattered little as his movement has functioned as a Trojan horse for actual white nationalism, facilitating its growth and expansion.

Where we get to the meat of the argument --- if you are alt-right you must be white nationalist. How probing this is. Just amazing.

Quote:The most famous of his followers, however, has been Jeremy Christian, who was accused of murdering two people on public transit as they were attempting to de-escalate his Islamophobic attack on two women. Only days after the stabbings, Gibson decided to hold another one of his “free speech” rallies, almost identical to the one that Christian had attended months earlier."

And the argument that the Prayer Patriots are themselves white nationalists evolves into the crap argument that 'someone that followed them was.' Wow -- ace investigation there.

I suggest you try again there dude.

This is like the fing crap that since 'Bill Ayers was an original Obama follower, then Obama sympathizes with bombing the New York City Police Department headquarters, the United States Capitol, and the Pentagon, and wouldn mind seeing an Army social function being bombed.'

Good lord. Proof by insinuation. Very Maoist there. Good job. And regardless of the explicit message they continually provide. lmao.

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

93, care to take a crack at the above question that you seemingly overlooked?

Or are you giving your 'cool' Antifa a pass in the same manner that you seek to paint the opposite side?

Honesty, if you are going to laud 'antifa' because they are 'strongly opposed to white nationalists', I find it very strange that you would fail to mention the opposite.

Personally I find both groups absolute fing scumbags --- and really find zero redemption for *either* the white nationalists *or* the violent neo-marxists and/or neo-anarchists for their mutual hatred of one another.

I find it pretty telling that when you stop to toss a bone to antifa for the 'strong[] opposition' to a bunch of scumbags, that you apparently do not find that bone for the white nationalists for the 'strong[] opposition' to the shitbirds you find a streak of redemption for.

Viewpoint based inconsistency I guess.

(05-05-2019 04:56 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 04:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

This brings up something I have noticed in all the lefties here - everything seems predicated of racism.

I am a conservative who opposes racism, and a lot of other isms as well. Yet sometimes it seems the left thinks they are the only ones opposing racism and all who oppose the left are racists - thus the statements about the basket of delporables, or Obama's statement (And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.}

Antipathy toward people who aren't like them? Seven words to call us racist.

heck, what does the name Antifa mean?

.

I thought everything was predicated on victimhood?

If what you have on the opposite ideology is half of them are pencil necked racists, by definition one is 'ginning up' that victimhood card with that charge.

I mean, get the knee-jerk emotional victimhood reaction for a [name your color skin type] just grind up the racist charge.


Sheila Jackson Lee did that wonderfully in the Obamacare political fight, did she not?

(05-05-2019 05:21 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 04:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  By the way, you do know that not all people of the 'alt-right' are 'white nationalists', right? Or, is it just easy for you to conflate the former as being exclusively the latter?

Here is primer for you on the patriot prayer group:

Quote:Patriot Prayer describes itself as advocating in favor of free speech, and opposing big government.

Is being in favor of free speech and opposing big government now de facto proof of white nationalism?

Here is another

Quote:A Facebook message by Patriot Prayer states that “no extremists will be allowed in” to its Liberty Weekend events. It continues: “No Nazis, Communists, KKK, Antifa, white supremacists, i.e. or white nationalists.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/adopt-a-nazi-...ayer-rally

Or does the fact that they strongly support Trump make them automatically 'racist' and/or 'white nationalist'?

I am aware that not all supporters of the alt-right are white nationalists. I absolutely don't believe that if you support Trump then you are automatically racist.

I don't know if Patriot Prayer is simply an alt-right group or actually a white nationalist group. I do know the the Proud Boys are a white nationalist group and that they were also involved in this recent skirmish in Portland that we are discussing.

Here is another link that might provide you with further background on Patriot Prayer.

https://truthout.org/articles/how-patrio...-portland/

Some pertinent quotes:

Oooohhh...... quotes -- goody.

Ooooohhhh.... I bet I can count on you to have a respectful discussion again -- goody.

Quote:"Over the next year and a half after becoming a public force, Patriot Prayer began inviting others in the far right to join in their public events"

Oh lordy lordy...... they "invit[ed] others in the far right to join their public events." Wow, inviting 'others' is really fing damning.....

Quote: — the kind of call white nationalists are always primed for. "

Oh my. Seems more innuendo at this point.

Quote:Open white supremacy is generally unpopular in the US. To gain a connection to the mass culture, white supremacists require a crossover point, a group of people close enough to their ideas and built into the larger conservative social framework to help move them onto a public stage."

So they had the fing *temerity* to invote "others" in the far right. Oh my god!!!!!! That really gd proves it.....

It seems more like that they are bringing actual white nationalists into the mix that is the major issue with Patriot Prayer.

Quote:and further down the article:

Hope there is a little more than the nothingburger with a crap ton of innuendo that you provided as 'proof' above -- lets proceed ---

Quote:"While a large Trump contingent drew Gibson toward the Oregon GOP, he refused to disassociate himself from the large “alt-right” contingent that had started joining his events.

I guess in you knee jerk think that every portion of the 'alt-right' is de facto 'whate nationalist' this might be probative. Funny that.

Never said that. In fact I just said the opposite very clearly in my previous post.

Quote:Instead, he acted as a de facto organizer, providing them a platform and access to his conservative following. Gibson was, for all practical purposes, their most effective tool for growth. His own politics mattered little as his movement has functioned as a Trojan horse for actual white nationalism, facilitating its growth and expansion."

Where we get to the meat of the argument --- if you are alt-right you must be white nationalist. How probing this is. Just amazing.

Still never said that.

Quote:The most famous of his followers, however, has been Jeremy Christian, who was accused of murdering two people on public transit as they were attempting to de-escalate his Islamophobic attack on two women. Only days after the stabbings, Gibson decided to hold another one of his “free speech” rallies, almost identical to the one that Christian had attended months earlier."

And the argument that the Prayer Patriots are themselves white nationalists evolves into the crap argument that 'someone that followed them was.' Wow -- ace investigation there.

I suggest you try again there dude.

This is like the fing crap that since 'Bill Ayers was an original Obama follower, then Obama sympathizes with bombing the New York City Police Department headquarters, the United States Capitol, and the Pentagon, and wouldn mind seeing an Army social function being bombed.

Good lord. Proof by insinuation. Very Maoist there. Good job.

Did you see me say in my previous post that I don't know if Patriot Prayer is simply an alt-right group or actually white nationalists?

Bottom line... you are good with Patriot Prayer? Happy with their tactics? You'd be glad to see similar groups in all big cities?

(05-05-2019 05:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

93, care to take a crack at the above question that you seemingly overlooked?

Or are you giving your 'cool' Antifa a pass in the same manner that you seek to paint the opposite side?

Honesty, if you are going to laud 'antifa' because they are 'strongly opposed to white nationalists', I find it very strange that you would fail to mention the opposite.

Personally I find both groups absolute fing scumbags --- and really find zero redemption for *either* the white nationalists *or* the violent neo-marxists and/or neo-anarchists for their mutual hatred of one another.

I find it pretty telling that when you stop to toss a bone to antifa for the 'strong[] opposition' to a bunch of scumbags, that you apparently do not find that bone for the white nationalists for the 'strong[] opposition' to the shitbirds you find a streak of redemption for.

Viewpoint based inconsistency I guess.

Sure... the opposite side of the coin will show that one redemptive quality of white nationalists is their opposition to violent neo-Marxists. Their many less-than-redemptive qualities hugely outweigh this redemptive quality, though. IMO much more so than the less-than-redemptive qualities of antifa does.

I was not "lauding" antifa... I was responding to the post which stated that there is not a single redemptive quality of this group.

I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth.

(05-05-2019 05:46 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 05:21 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 04:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  By the way, you do know that not all people of the 'alt-right' are 'white nationalists', right? Or, is it just easy for you to conflate the former as being exclusively the latter?

Here is primer for you on the patriot prayer group:

Quote:Patriot Prayer describes itself as advocating in favor of free speech, and opposing big government.

Is being in favor of free speech and opposing big government now de facto proof of white nationalism?

Here is another

Quote:A Facebook message by Patriot Prayer states that “no extremists will be allowed in” to its Liberty Weekend events. It continues: “No Nazis, Communists, KKK, Antifa, white supremacists, i.e. or white nationalists.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/adopt-a-nazi-...ayer-rally

Or does the fact that they strongly support Trump make them automatically 'racist' and/or 'white nationalist'?

I am aware that not all supporters of the alt-right are white nationalists. I absolutely don't believe that if you support Trump then you are automatically racist.

I don't know if Patriot Prayer is simply an alt-right group or actually a white nationalist group. I do know the the Proud Boys are a white nationalist group and that they were also involved in this recent skirmish in Portland that we are discussing.

Here is another link that might provide you with further background on Patriot Prayer.

https://truthout.org/articles/how-patrio...-portland/

Some pertinent quotes:

Oooohhh...... quotes -- goody.

Ooooohhhh.... I bet I can count on you to have a respectful discussion again -- goody.

Quote:"Over the next year and a half after becoming a public force, Patriot Prayer began inviting others in the far right to join in their public events"

Oh lordy lordy...... they "invit[ed] others in the far right to join their public events." Wow, inviting 'others' is really fing damning.....

Quote: — the kind of call white nationalists are always primed for. "

Oh my. Seems more innuendo at this point.

Quote:Open white supremacy is generally unpopular in the US. To gain a connection to the mass culture, white supremacists require a crossover point, a group of people close enough to their ideas and built into the larger conservative social framework to help move them onto a public stage."

So they had the fing *temerity* to invote "others" in the far right. Oh my god!!!!!! That really gd proves it.....

It seems more like that they are bringing actual white nationalists into the mix that is the major issue with Patriot Prayer.

Quote:and further down the article:

Hope there is a little more than the nothingburger with a crap ton of innuendo that you provided as 'proof' above -- lets proceed ---

Quote:"While a large Trump contingent drew Gibson toward the Oregon GOP, he refused to disassociate himself from the large “alt-right” contingent that had started joining his events.

I guess in you knee jerk think that every portion of the 'alt-right' is de facto 'whate nationalist' this might be probative. Funny that.

Never said that. In fact I just said the opposite very clearly in my previous post.

Quote:Instead, he acted as a de facto organizer, providing them a platform and access to his conservative following. Gibson was, for all practical purposes, their most effective tool for growth. His own politics mattered little as his movement has functioned as a Trojan horse for actual white nationalism, facilitating its growth and expansion."

Where we get to the meat of the argument --- if you are alt-right you must be white nationalist. How probing this is. Just amazing.

Still never said that.

Quote:The most famous of his followers, however, has been Jeremy Christian, who was accused of murdering two people on public transit as they were attempting to de-escalate his Islamophobic attack on two women. Only days after the stabbings, Gibson decided to hold another one of his “free speech” rallies, almost identical to the one that Christian had attended months earlier."

And the argument that the Prayer Patriots are themselves white nationalists evolves into the crap argument that 'someone that followed them was.' Wow -- ace investigation there.

I suggest you try again there dude.

This is like the fing crap that since 'Bill Ayers was an original Obama follower, then Obama sympathizes with bombing the New York City Police Department headquarters, the United States Capitol, and the Pentagon, and wouldn mind seeing an Army social function being bombed.

Good lord. Proof by insinuation. Very Maoist there. Good job.

Did you see me say in my previous post that I don't know if Patriot Prayer is simply an alt-right group or actually white nationalists?

Funny but your 'evidence' went down the oft-trodden path of trying to tie them to that ideology. Half a post or so. Or did you not notice that?

Quote:Bottom line... you are good with Patriot Prayer? Happy with their tactics? You'd be glad to see similar groups in all big cities?

I have actually stated that I found their prayer rallies to be an overt provocation. Much like I can readily state the Antifa May Day march was. Not a good start for support.

I have some inclination to give them a benefit of the doubt . Simply because even people like Nancy Pelosi has had a happy trigger to label them with the 'white nationalist' rhetoric --- interestingly over their rally in SF with "a black speaker, two Hispanic speakers, we've got an Asian, a brown speaker right here (referring to himself) – we got a transsexual, and we aren't talking about race."

And, in contrast to what many say, at least Patriot Prayer does attempt to work within the political system many times in support of their stated goals re: 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment, 4th Amendment activism, right to life, balanced budget.

https://gibsonforfreedom.com/patriot-prayer

Note on that page (should you choose to look) that Gibson actively interacts with the political system of locales for various stances in various places like city councils and county courts. And that the listed events run the spectrum from right to life, to second amendment, to police support.

Brash -- yes. In your face -- yes. But the agenda that they explicitly promote runs a gamut of topics. Far more than the 'I am black ant -- I need to clobber red ant head' that seems common in the world of alt-sides these days.

So when compared to such groups as the Proud Boys, the answer would be 'yes, I would much prefer Patriot Prayer to Proud Boys'.

But if your viewpoint is simply 'god I hate the **** out of all alt-right groups', I can understand the opposite take, and might even understand any unwillingness to actually look under the hood a tad. Life is easy that way.

(05-05-2019 06:09 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 05:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

93, care to take a crack at the above question that you seemingly overlooked?

Or are you giving your 'cool' Antifa a pass in the same manner that you seek to paint the opposite side?

Honesty, if you are going to laud 'antifa' because they are 'strongly opposed to white nationalists', I find it very strange that you would fail to mention the opposite.

Personally I find both groups absolute fing scumbags --- and really find zero redemption for *either* the white nationalists *or* the violent neo-marxists and/or neo-anarchists for their mutual hatred of one another.

I find it pretty telling that when you stop to toss a bone to antifa for the 'strong[] opposition' to a bunch of scumbags, that you apparently do not find that bone for the white nationalists for the 'strong[] opposition' to the shitbirds you find a streak of redemption for.

Viewpoint based inconsistency I guess.

Sure... the opposite side of the coin will show that one redemptive quality of white nationalists is their opposition to violent neo-Marxists. Their many less-than-redemptive qualities hugely outweigh this redemptive quality, though. IMO much more so than the less-than-redemptive qualities of antifa does.

Got it. Antifa >>>>> than 'white nationalists'. Seems par for the course for the left, to be honest.

Quote:I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth.

And you go back to the equating apparently *all* alt-right groups to white nationalists with that statement. Sorry this is funny. Predictable, but still funny.

My comment in the previous post of

Quote:But if your viewpoint is simply 'god I hate the **** out of all alt-right groups'

seems kind of prescient, doesnt it?

Kind of the same way the left seemingly equates anti *illegal* immigration with anti-immigration.

(05-05-2019 06:09 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 05:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

93, care to take a crack at the above question that you seemingly overlooked?

Or are you giving your 'cool' Antifa a pass in the same manner that you seek to paint the opposite side?

Honesty, if you are going to laud 'antifa' because they are 'strongly opposed to white nationalists', I find it very strange that you would fail to mention the opposite.

Personally I find both groups absolute fing scumbags --- and really find zero redemption for *either* the white nationalists *or* the violent neo-marxists and/or neo-anarchists for their mutual hatred of one another.

I find it pretty telling that when you stop to toss a bone to antifa for the 'strong[] opposition' to a bunch of scumbags, that you apparently do not find that bone for the white nationalists for the 'strong[] opposition' to the shitbirds you find a streak of redemption for.

Viewpoint based inconsistency I guess.

Sure... the opposite side of the coin will show that one redemptive quality of white nationalists is their opposition to violent neo-Marxists. Their many less-than-redemptive qualities hugely outweigh this redemptive quality, though. IMO much more so than the less-than-redemptive qualities of antifa does.

I was not "lauding" antifa... I was responding to the post which stated that there is not a single redemptive quality of this group.

I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth.

"I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth" . . . but based on the bolded, if you had to pick one to stick around, it would be antifa, huh?

I have been watching this ping pong match and what I am seeing is that the conservatives here don't have a problem equally condemning these two collections of s**tbags. Why are you finding it so hard? You're doing about as well as Trump did with Charlottesville . . . which I have no doubt you criticized him for.

(05-05-2019 05:02 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 04:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

This brings up something I have noticed in all the lefties here - everything seems predicated of racism.

I am a conservative who opposes racism, and a lot of other isms as well. Yet sometimes it seems the left thinks they are the only ones opposing racism and all who oppose the left are racists - thus the statements about the basket of delporables, or Obama's statement (And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.}

Antipathy toward people who aren't like them? Seven words to call us racist.

heck, what does the name Antifa mean?

.

I can see how you feel this way. I have a similar feeling that the right thinks that they are the only ones who are patriotic or that support members of our military.

I can understand that. So which presidential candidate said you were in a basket of unpatriotic military nonsupporters.

(05-05-2019 06:27 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:09 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 05:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

93, care to take a crack at the above question that you seemingly overlooked?

Or are you giving your 'cool' Antifa a pass in the same manner that you seek to paint the opposite side?

Honesty, if you are going to laud 'antifa' because they are 'strongly opposed to white nationalists', I find it very strange that you would fail to mention the opposite.

Personally I find both groups absolute fing scumbags --- and really find zero redemption for *either* the white nationalists *or* the violent neo-marxists and/or neo-anarchists for their mutual hatred of one another.

I find it pretty telling that when you stop to toss a bone to antifa for the 'strong[] opposition' to a bunch of scumbags, that you apparently do not find that bone for the white nationalists for the 'strong[] opposition' to the shitbirds you find a streak of redemption for.

Viewpoint based inconsistency I guess.

Sure... the opposite side of the coin will show that one redemptive quality of white nationalists is their opposition to violent neo-Marxists. Their many less-than-redemptive qualities hugely outweigh this redemptive quality, though. IMO much more so than the less-than-redemptive qualities of antifa does.

I was not "lauding" antifa... I was responding to the post which stated that there is not a single redemptive quality of this group.

I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth.

"I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth" . . . but based on the bolded, if you had to pick one to stick around, it would be antifa, huh?

I have been watching this ping pong match and what I am seeing is that the conservatives here don't have a problem equally condemning these two collections of s**tbags. Why are you finding it so hard? You're doing about as well as Trump did with Charlottesville . . . which I have no doubt you criticized him for.

Yes. I think that white nationalists are worse than the Antifa. I don’t like either of them as is clear from my posts. But if you have a gun to my head and ask me which is worse then I will go with white nationalists. How about you?

I am not a religious person (I wish I was), but does every prayer breakfast and meeting arouse the ire of the left? It appears to me that few Christian activities escape their ire.

(05-05-2019 06:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am not a religious person (I wish I was), but does every prayer breakfast and meeting arouse the ire of the left? It appears to me that few Christian activities escape their ire.

Which prayer breakfasts arouse the ire of the left? Link?

I thought prayer breakfasts were bipartisan.

(05-05-2019 06:43 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:27 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:09 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 05:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

93, care to take a crack at the above question that you seemingly overlooked?

Or are you giving your 'cool' Antifa a pass in the same manner that you seek to paint the opposite side?

Honesty, if you are going to laud 'antifa' because they are 'strongly opposed to white nationalists', I find it very strange that you would fail to mention the opposite.

Personally I find both groups absolute fing scumbags --- and really find zero redemption for *either* the white nationalists *or* the violent neo-marxists and/or neo-anarchists for their mutual hatred of one another.

I find it pretty telling that when you stop to toss a bone to antifa for the 'strong[] opposition' to a bunch of scumbags, that you apparently do not find that bone for the white nationalists for the 'strong[] opposition' to the shitbirds you find a streak of redemption for.

Viewpoint based inconsistency I guess.

Sure... the opposite side of the coin will show that one redemptive quality of white nationalists is their opposition to violent neo-Marxists. Their many less-than-redemptive qualities hugely outweigh this redemptive quality, though. IMO much more so than the less-than-redemptive qualities of antifa does.

I was not "lauding" antifa... I was responding to the post which stated that there is not a single redemptive quality of this group.

I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth.

"I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth" . . . but based on the bolded, if you had to pick one to stick around, it would be antifa, huh?

I have been watching this ping pong match and what I am seeing is that the conservatives here don't have a problem equally condemning these two collections of s**tbags. Why are you finding it so hard? You're doing about as well as Trump did with Charlottesville . . . which I have no doubt you criticized him for.

Yes. I think that white nationalists are worse than the Antifa. I don’t like either of them as is clear from my posts. But if you have a gun to my head and ask me which is worse then I will go with white nationalists. How about you?

I think violent white supremacists are equal to violent neo-marxists. In pretty much all respects. Fellow travelers in the dumb as **** dirtbag group as far as I am concerned.

(05-05-2019 06:43 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:27 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:09 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 05:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 03:05 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Is it a redemptive quality for white nationalists that they are seemingly strongly opposed to the violent neo-marxists and the violent anarchists?

93, care to take a crack at the above question that you seemingly overlooked?

Or are you giving your 'cool' Antifa a pass in the same manner that you seek to paint the opposite side?

Honesty, if you are going to laud 'antifa' because they are 'strongly opposed to white nationalists', I find it very strange that you would fail to mention the opposite.

Personally I find both groups absolute fing scumbags --- and really find zero redemption for *either* the white nationalists *or* the violent neo-marxists and/or neo-anarchists for their mutual hatred of one another.

I find it pretty telling that when you stop to toss a bone to antifa for the 'strong[] opposition' to a bunch of scumbags, that you apparently do not find that bone for the white nationalists for the 'strong[] opposition' to the shitbirds you find a streak of redemption for.

Viewpoint based inconsistency I guess.

Sure... the opposite side of the coin will show that one redemptive quality of white nationalists is their opposition to violent neo-Marxists. Their many less-than-redemptive qualities hugely outweigh this redemptive quality, though. IMO much more so than the less-than-redemptive qualities of antifa does.

I was not "lauding" antifa... I was responding to the post which stated that there is not a single redemptive quality of this group.

I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth.

"I am with you in that I wish both antifa and the alt-right groups would disappear off of the face of the earth" . . . but based on the bolded, if you had to pick one to stick around, it would be antifa, huh?

I have been watching this ping pong match and what I am seeing is that the conservatives here don't have a problem equally condemning these two collections of s**tbags. Why are you finding it so hard? You're doing about as well as Trump did with Charlottesville . . . which I have no doubt you criticized him for.

Yes. I think that white nationalists are worse than the Antifa. I don’t like either of them as is clear from my posts. But if you have a gun to my head and ask me which is worse then I will go with white nationalists. How about you?

Kind of like asking, which do you like better, child molesters or white slavers?

I, of course, do not like the philosophy of white nationalists. I think it lacks logical underpinning. Of course, I equally dislike the philosophy of black nationalists . (How come we only hear of the WN?) I like the melting pot of our current society, being a product of that melting pot. I get along well with everybody.

I also cannot abide by the philosophy of antifa, which is basically "Shut your damn mouth or we will shut it for you". The last masked man I took for a hero was the Lone Ranger. Some think he was a white supremacist, but I don't. It is kind of suspicious that in all his shows, he never saved a black man(AFAICR).

I have certain beliefs on certain issues. Those tend to take me to the right most of the time. I don't like everybody and everything I find there. Sometimes, my beliefs will take me to the left side side of the ledger. I don't like everybody there, either. Generally, I feel like there is more common sense to the right and more idealism to the left.

But that is just me. Don't shout me down, masked man.

(05-05-2019 06:41 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 05:02 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 04:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 01:36 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?

This brings up something I have noticed in all the lefties here - everything seems predicated of racism.

I am a conservative who opposes racism, and a lot of other isms as well. Yet sometimes it seems the left thinks they are the only ones opposing racism and all who oppose the left are racists - thus the statements about the basket of delporables, or Obama's statement (And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.}

Antipathy toward people who aren't like them? Seven words to call us racist.

heck, what does the name Antifa mean?

.

I can see how you feel this way. I have a similar feeling that the right thinks that they are the only ones who are patriotic or that support members of our military.

I can understand that. So which presidential candidate said you were in a basket of unpatriotic military nonsupporters.

I didnt know that 'unpatriotic' or 'not a military supporter' means not worthy of even contempt.

Glad to know that is a direct equivalence.

I know the National Socialists regarded the Juden as beneath even contempt. I guess they should have added the 'not support the military' perjorative to drive it really home.

The horrors of being noted as 'not a military supporter'? How do you make it day-to-day with that level or vitriol and opinion of your literal basic humanity directly transmitted to you. You are so brave.