(05-05-2019 09:53 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 08:29 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You mean the white nationalist photographer author of the tweet there who was bear-sprayed?

Having looked at the videos of the entire thread, I dont think I could have readily identified more than one or two 'white nationalists' amongst the counter demonstrators. Or is that the nom de jure of anyone counter-protesting an antifa rally in Portland these days?

No. I was just commenting in general as how how Portland is a flashpoint for violence between the antifa and white nationalists. I didn't dig deeply into this particular skirmish. Not sure exactly who was involved on either side. I guess that I assumed that it was more of the same that has been so prevalent in Portland over the past couple years.

Also trying to figure out the term "boycott" in the original post. How was this a boycott?

Further background: https://www.theepochtimes.com/violent-cl...03888.html

As usual... looks like neither of these sides covered themselves in glory.

Tanq... this reads that far right/white nationalist groups were involved. How are you able to pick out white nationalists in these videos?

(05-05-2019 06:24 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 12:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I guess this wasnt a boycott:

Not sure what they are boycotting?

Looks like yet another clash in Portland. The most liberal city in the US surrounded by areas infested by white nationalists. Ugly setup.

Not a boycott. Just an action to run conservatives out.

(05-05-2019 10:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:24 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 12:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I guess this wasnt a boycott:

Not sure what they are boycotting?

Looks like yet another clash in Portland. The most liberal city in the US surrounded by areas infested by white nationalists. Ugly setup.

Not a boycott. Just an action to run conservatives out.

An action to run conservatives out? By "conservatives" do you mean white nationalists? How can you be so sure about the intentions of the original gathering? Where are you getting this insight?

(05-05-2019 10:02 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 10:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:24 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 12:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I guess this wasnt a boycott:

Not sure what they are boycotting?

Looks like yet another clash in Portland. The most liberal city in the US surrounded by areas infested by white nationalists. Ugly setup.

Not a boycott. Just an action to run conservatives out.

An action to run conservatives out? By "conservatives" do you mean white nationalists? How can you be so sure about the intentions of the original gathering? Where are you getting this insight?

History.

How can YOU be so sure about the intentions of anybody involved.

A May Day event organized FOR Antifa. A journalist attacked. Must be white nationalists.

(05-05-2019 10:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 10:02 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 10:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 06:24 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 12:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I guess this wasnt a boycott:

Not sure what they are boycotting?

Looks like yet another clash in Portland. The most liberal city in the US surrounded by areas infested by white nationalists. Ugly setup.

Not a boycott. Just an action to run conservatives out.

An action to run conservatives out? By "conservatives" do you mean white nationalists? How can you be so sure about the intentions of the original gathering? Where are you getting this insight?

History.

How can YOU be so sure about the intentions of anybody involved.

I'm not sure about them. I never suggested that I was.

Based on the local paper, it was a class of antifa and far/alt-right groups like the Proud Boys.

https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown...reet-fight

Edit: read more about it. Sounds like Antifa went to this bar after May Day protests, and then the far/alt-right group showed up and started to provoke them. Apparently there was fighting and pepper spraying from both sides. But reporting indicates that this was a provocation by the alt-right group Patriot Prayer.

Two bunches of bad people fighting. Might as well be two biker gangs. Looks like the attractation was the Antifa gathering.

Who broke the camera? Who maced the journalist? Anybody know?

I don’t have to be a white nationalist to oppose Antifa. Stop trying to make it so.

(05-05-2019 10:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Two bunches of bad people fighting. Might as well be two biker gangs. Looks like the attractation was the Antifa gathering.

Who broke the camera? Who maced the journalist? Anybody know?

I don’t have to be a white nationalist to oppose Antifa. Stop trying to make it so.

Per that Twitter, a member of Anitfa.

Clearly wasn’t an event to run out conservatives as you suggested it was - the alt-right were doing the provoking.

(05-05-2019 10:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 10:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Two bunches of bad people fighting. Might as well be two biker gangs. Looks like the attractation was the Antifa gathering.

Who broke the camera? Who maced the journalist? Anybody know?

I don’t have to be a white nationalist to oppose Antifa. Stop trying to make it so.

Per that Twitter, a member of Anitfa.

Clearly wasn’t an event to run out conservatives as you suggested it was - the alt-right were doing the provoking.

So a May Day march is zero provoking -- got it.

Nothing but a peaceful march of people bedecked in facemasks and bears-spray --- nothing provocative there in the slightest.

Because antifa left-marches in Portland by themselves are oh-so inherently peaceful an non-confrontational. Glad to know that.

https://www.kgw.com/video/news/local/ant...83-8271766

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCHSNE09aMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VrR94yd6c

Nothing but absolute law abiding citizens I see in those videos.

(05-05-2019 11:08 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 10:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 10:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Two bunches of bad people fighting. Might as well be two biker gangs. Looks like the attractation was the Antifa gathering.

Who broke the camera? Who maced the journalist? Anybody know?

I don’t have to be a white nationalist to oppose Antifa. Stop trying to make it so.

Per that Twitter, a member of Anitfa.

Clearly wasn’t an event to run out conservatives as you suggested it was - the alt-right were doing the provoking.

So a May Day march is zero provoking -- got it.

Nothing but a peaceful march of people bedecked in facemasks and bears-spray --- nothing provocative there in the slightest.

Because antifa left-marches in Portland by themselves are oh-so inherently peaceful an non-confrontational. Glad to know that.

https://www.kgw.com/video/news/local/ant...83-8271766

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCHSNE09aMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47VrR94yd6c

Nothing but absolute law abiding citizens I see in those videos.

The event in question was after the May Day protest at a bar. The article states that Antifa members went there, and after some time, the alt-right group showed up to provoke them.

Did you read the article?

I did. I guess you dont think that any march by antifa is in any way provocative by itself. Nor is violence by the marchers against people holding cameras is in any way provocative either.

Funny thing, I find the prayer rallies that get stormed by the antifa in portland provocative acts in themself also.

Or, in your mind, there is a 'first marcher or demonstration gets a free pass' rule?

But I see that a May Day March with more than a handful of acts of violence during the march seemingly gets a pass in your mind.

(05-05-2019 11:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I did. I guess you dont think that any march by antifa is in any way provocative by itself. Nor is violence by the marchers against people holding cameras is in any way provocative either.

Funny thing, I find the prayer rallies that get stormed by the antifa in portland provocative acts in themself also.

Or, in your mind, there is a 'first marcher or demonstration gets a free pass' rule?

But I see that a May Day March with more than a handful of acts of violence during the march seemingly gets a pass in your mind.

I haven't read anything about the May Day protest itself. I read up on the altercation that was relevant to the Twitter post.

The facts about that altercation was that the alt-right group clearly was the provocateur. Antifa was clearly the group that reacted and clearly was the group that pepper sprayed the journalist and broke the camera.

I would 100% not call the pepper spraying or camera breaking "provocative" in this discussion, because they were a reaction to a situation created by the alt-right group. That doesn't justify and excuse or condone that, it simply states that this altercation was started by the alt-right group. But it's clear that this Antifa group reacted in a violent manner.

(05-05-2019 10:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Two bunches of bad people fighting. Might as well be two biker gangs. Looks like the attractation was the Antifa gathering.

Who broke the camera? Who maced the journalist? Anybody know?

I don’t have to be a white nationalist to oppose Antifa. Stop trying to make it so.

Nobody has suggested that you "have to be a white nationalist to oppose Antifa". We just pointed out that, per reporting, white nationalist groups were involved in the fighting with the antifa members in this particular news story.

(05-05-2019 11:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I did. I guess you dont think that any march by antifa is in any way provocative by itself. Nor is violence by the marchers against people holding cameras is in any way provocative either.

Funny thing, I find the prayer rallies that get stormed by the antifa in portland provocative acts in themself also.

Or, in your mind, there is a 'first marcher or demonstration gets a free pass' rule?

But I see that a May Day March with more than a handful of acts of violence during the march seemingly gets a pass in your mind.

By "prayer rallies" are you referring to the Patriot Prayer group?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Prayer

If so, I don't think that "prayer rallies" is an adequate description of their gatherings...

(05-05-2019 12:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 11:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I did. I guess you dont think that any march by antifa is in any way provocative by itself. Nor is violence by the marchers against people holding cameras is in any way provocative either.

Funny thing, I find the prayer rallies that get stormed by the antifa in portland provocative acts in themself also.

Or, in your mind, there is a 'first marcher or demonstration gets a free pass' rule?

But I see that a May Day March with more than a handful of acts of violence during the march seemingly gets a pass in your mind.

By "prayer rallies" are you referring to the Patriot Prayer group?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Prayer

If so, I don't think that "prayer rallies" is an adequate description of their gatherings...

My apologies for not capitalizing the 'P'. Horrors.

But yes. I find those rallies or 'first marches' to be 'provocative'. Do you?

That is if you can get over the error in capitalization that seemingly is presented as the 'end all of gotchas' there.

How about "Prayer Rallies"? Does that soothe your conscience? Or are we going down the path of 'what is the absolutest *best* nomenclature one must use' tussle here? Or must everyone use every single word to salve you? But I am glad to note that you are able to understand what I am denoting, even in light of the horrendous capitalization error that you 'pounced' upon.

(Btw are you on the leftist side aware of the media use of 'pounce' when it comes to Republican/Democratic reporting?)

(05-05-2019 12:03 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 11:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I did. I guess you dont think that any march by antifa is in any way provocative by itself. Nor is violence by the marchers against people holding cameras is in any way provocative either.

Funny thing, I find the prayer rallies that get stormed by the antifa in portland provocative acts in themself also.

Or, in your mind, there is a 'first marcher or demonstration gets a free pass' rule?

But I see that a May Day March with more than a handful of acts of violence during the march seemingly gets a pass in your mind.

I haven't read anything about the May Day protest itself. I read up on the altercation that was relevant to the Twitter post.

The facts about that altercation was that the alt-right group clearly was the provocateur. Antifa was clearly the group that reacted and clearly was the group that pepper sprayed the journalist and broke the camera.

I would 100% not call the pepper spraying or camera breaking "provocative" in this discussion, because they were a reaction to a situation created by the alt-right group. That doesn't justify and excuse or condone that, it simply states that this altercation was started by the alt-right group. But it's clear that this Antifa group reacted in a violent manner.

There -- I was correct.

You dont think a May Day march by Antifa to be provocative in the slightest. Got it. You could have just stated that in 12 words or so.

I guess we should enable a lad rule of 'a first march or rally by an extreme group is *not* provocative and never should be seen as provocative'.

Now do you think that "Prayer" rallies (capitalization there) are not provocative?

I guess you should give a pass to the skinheads at Charlottesville on the first night then as well. I am glad we are gaining some clarity here.

Edited to add: there is a good case based your assessment that the skinheads on the second day at Charlottesville are also clear, since they clearly had a rally, and it was the antifa that showed up to provoke. My, this is starting to get illuminating......

Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

(05-05-2019 12:29 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 12:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 11:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I did. I guess you dont think that any march by antifa is in any way provocative by itself. Nor is violence by the marchers against people holding cameras is in any way provocative either.

Funny thing, I find the prayer rallies that get stormed by the antifa in portland provocative acts in themself also.

Or, in your mind, there is a 'first marcher or demonstration gets a free pass' rule?

But I see that a May Day March with more than a handful of acts of violence during the march seemingly gets a pass in your mind.

By "prayer rallies" are you referring to the Patriot Prayer group?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Prayer

If so, I don't think that "prayer rallies" is an adequate description of their gatherings...

My apologies for not capitalizing the 'P'. Horrors.

But yes. I find those rallies or 'first marches' to be 'provocative'. Do you?

That is if you can get over the error in capitalization that seemingly is presented as the 'end all of gotchas' there.

How about "Prayer Rallies"? Does that soothe your conscience? Or are we going down the path of 'what is the absolutest *best* nomenclature one must use' tussle here? Or must everyone use every single word to salve you? But I am glad to note that you are able to understand what I am denoting, even in light of the horrendous capitalization error that you 'pounced' upon.

(Btw are you on the leftist side aware of the media use of 'pounce' when it comes to Republican/Democratic reporting?)

I don’t think you need to salve me, but thanks.

I may be dense, but I see a world of difference in the following statements:

“Dateline Portland: Members of Antifa stormed a prayer rally in a public park today.”

“Dateline Portland: Members of Antifa clashed with members of the far-right group Patriot Prayer in a public park today.“

I honestly was not sure if you were referring to the far-right group with your original statement or not. It was not a gotcha .

(05-05-2019 12:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Most of the time I see Antifa, they are there to stop conservatives from meeting, speaking, marching, protesting, having any voice in this society. Apparently this was more like a company picnic. Three legged races and awards for best use of bear spray. At least the bikers give toys to kids. I fail to see ANY redemption in Antifa.

For the most part, I am not a fan of their messaging nor their methods. In terms of redemptive qualities, though, there is the fact that they are strongly opposed to white nationalists?