(04-08-2019 07:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So because I’m an engineer I can’t draw the very obvious conclusion that Trump is vain and petty?

You can form an opinion that he is such. So can anyone.

But reaching a conclusion that he is such requires both professional credentials that I don't believe engineers typically possess, and clinical testing that I don't believe you have performed.

(04-08-2019 07:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So because I’m an engineer I can’t draw the very obvious conclusion that Trump is vain and petty?

You can form an opinion that he is such. So can anyone.

But reaching a conclusion that he is such requires both professional credentials that I don't believe engineers typically possess, and clinical testing that I don't believe you have performed.

No it doesn’t. I’m not diagnosing him with a disorder - I’m describing his personality type.

Can I not say that someone is nice? Or rude? Lol.

(04-08-2019 07:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So because I’m an engineer I can’t draw the very obvious conclusion that Trump is vain and petty?

You can form an opinion that he is such. So can anyone.

But reaching a conclusion that he is such requires both professional credentials that I don't believe engineers typically possess, and clinical testing that I don't believe you have performed.

Don't know why I'm rejoining this foolishness, but I can tell you that many(most?) psychologists/therapists, i.e. the credentialed professionals you talk about, think Trump has serious mental health issues, most prominently Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and a "malignant narcissist" at that. Plenty of other diagnoses - sociopath, paranoid, etc. In addition, many compare him to 10-15 years ago, and while he's always been a narcissist, some of the other stuff, word slurring, massively reduced vocabulary, inability to retain information or stay on point, is evidence of serious cognitive decline.

It's led to a meta-debate in the mental health field that ethically they aren't supposed to diagnosis him without an exam, but they can all see he has serious, serious issues, and is it ethical to NOT say anything?

(04-08-2019 07:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 06:57 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So why do we keep seeing news reports of companies lobbying the Trump admin staying at the Trump hotel? Or foreign nationals saying that they stay at the Trump hotel specifically because it’s his hotel?

I don't know why. Maybe because there is a concerted effort by about 95% of the news media to portray Trump in the least favorable light? My guess is that some people stay there because of Trump, and others refuse to stay there because of Trump, and it pretty much balances out in the wash

I don't think you understand how real estate works. Whatever it is worth depends not on whether the prime minister of Slobbvia stayed there last night, but on how many people stay there every night. Any upscale hotel in that location is going to have a pretty high occupancy rate as a matter of supply and demand. If you want to stay there, fine. If you want to stay across the street, fine. But either way, somebody is going to stay there. It's not like the prime minister's dollars go directly into Trump's pocket. That's not how it works.

Quote:Trump is vain and petty - he’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel, let alone 500 nights that Saudi lobbyists booked, totally over $250k.

And your qualifications to make such an assessment are? From some of your previous comments, I thought you were some kind of engineer.

Quote:I think the difficulty of Trump divesting all of his holdings is a fair comment. But it does not absolve him of any criticism and, frankly, it’s willfully blind ignorance to try and argue that these obvious conflicts of interest do not exist.

I think "obvious conflicts of interest" is vastly overstated. You own a hotel, and somebody pays the rack rate to stay there for a night, that's not enough to buy much interest. You go to congress for 40 years, make $175,000 a year, but you are exempt from the insider trading laws, among others, and you come out worth millions, that's an obvious conflict of interest.

I'm sorry, I just don't see much, if any, conflict of interest here. If you could somehow establish that it was a crappy hotel that would have no customers otherwise, but people stay there strictly to curry favor with Trump, and you could point out obvious cases where such favor was a factor in a significant decision, then you might have something. But transactions in the ordinary course of business just don't reach the threshold.

Say you run a restaurant, and are a democrat. I'm a republican, I bring my family in to have dinner one night. Does that mean you're going to vote for me?

So because I’m an engineer I can’t draw the very obvious conclusion that Trump is vain and petty?

You overlook the detailed psychoanalysis that follows, dont you? Let me repost:

Quote:He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel

That goes well beyond just a 'general observation'. How much personal interaction have you had with Trump to form this more in depth analysis? Yes, he is petty and vain. But, I dont have a clue if he is what you state above. That takes, imo, a tad more insight than this ignorant guy has. Glad to know you formed that detailed opinion of him with (most likely) zero interaction. Pretty amazing. Kreskin-in-the-lad resurfacing here?

(04-07-2019 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tell me this. I keep hearing how "every president has released his tax returns for over 40 years." Ok, so out of all those tax returns, what is the most significant piece of information that has ever been revealed in any of them?

I don't remember, either.

Then why won't he release them? Why does he lie about not being able to release them? Why is he not keeping his promise to release them after the election?

People aren't asking him to do something new and unprecedented. They are asking him to follow precedent.

(04-08-2019 07:51 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So because I’m an engineer I can’t draw the very obvious conclusion that Trump is vain and petty?

You can form an opinion that he is such. So can anyone.

But reaching a conclusion that he is such requires both professional credentials that I don't believe engineers typically possess, and clinical testing that I don't believe you have performed.

Don't know why I'm rejoining this foolishness, but I can tell you that many(most?) psychologists/therapists, i.e. the credentialed professionals you talk about, think Trump has serious mental health issues, most prominently Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and a "malignant narcissist" at that. Plenty of other diagnoses - sociopath, paranoid, etc. In addition, many compare him to 10-15 years ago, and while he's always been a narcissist, some of the other stuff, word slurring, massively reduced vocabulary, inability to retain information or stay on point, is evidence of serious cognitive decline.

It's led to a meta-debate in the mental health field that ethically they aren't supposed to diagnosis him without an exam, but they can all see he has serious, serious issues, and is it ethical to NOT say anything?

Name *any* CEO that doesnt have either a strong streak, perhaps diagnosable, of narcissism, or sociopathic tendencies, or both?

Good god, lobbing that grenade at a CEO --- is that really a tough target in general? Lolz. Try hunting some tougher targets -- a one legged blind dog with olfactory problems might fit that bill.

(04-08-2019 07:56 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Tell me this. I keep hearing how "every president has released his tax returns for over 40 years." Ok, so out of all those tax returns, what is the most significant piece of information that has ever been revealed in any of them?

I don't remember, either.

Then why won't he release them? Why does he lie about not being able to release them? Why is he not keeping his promise to release them after the election?

People aren't asking him to do something new and unprecedented. They are asking him to follow precedent.

And then they go on the fing legal warpath over non-legal 'precedents', dont they? You left that little iota out.

(04-08-2019 07:52 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:22 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 06:57 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So why do we keep seeing news reports of companies lobbying the Trump admin staying at the Trump hotel? Or foreign nationals saying that they stay at the Trump hotel specifically because it’s his hotel?

I don't know why. Maybe because there is a concerted effort by about 95% of the news media to portray Trump in the least favorable light? My guess is that some people stay there because of Trump, and others refuse to stay there because of Trump, and it pretty much balances out in the wash

I don't think you understand how real estate works. Whatever it is worth depends not on whether the prime minister of Slobbvia stayed there last night, but on how many people stay there every night. Any upscale hotel in that location is going to have a pretty high occupancy rate as a matter of supply and demand. If you want to stay there, fine. If you want to stay across the street, fine. But either way, somebody is going to stay there. It's not like the prime minister's dollars go directly into Trump's pocket. That's not how it works.

Quote:Trump is vain and petty - he’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel, let alone 500 nights that Saudi lobbyists booked, totally over $250k.

And your qualifications to make such an assessment are? From some of your previous comments, I thought you were some kind of engineer.

Quote:I think the difficulty of Trump divesting all of his holdings is a fair comment. But it does not absolve him of any criticism and, frankly, it’s willfully blind ignorance to try and argue that these obvious conflicts of interest do not exist.

I think "obvious conflicts of interest" is vastly overstated. You own a hotel, and somebody pays the rack rate to stay there for a night, that's not enough to buy much interest. You go to congress for 40 years, make $175,000 a year, but you are exempt from the insider trading laws, among others, and you come out worth millions, that's an obvious conflict of interest.

I'm sorry, I just don't see much, if any, conflict of interest here. If you could somehow establish that it was a crappy hotel that would have no customers otherwise, but people stay there strictly to curry favor with Trump, and you could point out obvious cases where such favor was a factor in a significant decision, then you might have something. But transactions in the ordinary course of business just don't reach the threshold.

Say you run a restaurant, and are a democrat. I'm a republican, I bring my family in to have dinner one night. Does that mean you're going to vote for me?

So because I’m an engineer I can’t draw the very obvious conclusion that Trump is vain and petty?

You overlook the detailed psychoanalysis that follows, dont you? Let me repost:

Quote:He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel

I will remember this post any time you or Owl#s offer your opinions on people. The hills y’all are willing to die on...

Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

I edited to note he appears vain and petty. I dont knock your very general comment. I think your more in depth comment is you pulling air out of your ass.

I am glad your Freud-in-the-lad can go far deeper than that and than this ignorant soul. Must be a pretty neat super power to have.

Owl#s, back to the hotel question. So do you think the owning of a business, such as Trump’s hotel, does or doesn’t open up an avenue of a potential conflict of interest?

(04-08-2019 08:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

By the way lad, you might note my comment wasnt to 'Trump is vain.' It was to 'he is the type of rich guy that blah blah blah blah.' That was specifically noted and cited.
You should exercise those Rice reading skills a tad better.

Or choose to keep with the strawman.

(04-08-2019 08:10 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Owl#s, back to the hotel question. So do you think the owning of a business, such as Trump’s hotel, does or doesn’t open up an avenue of a potential conflict of interest?

I think breathing opens you up to one or more POTENTIAL conflicts of interest. But to have an ACTUAL conflict of interest, or even a conflict of interest sufficiently likely to be a problem, requires a bit more.

If you can establish that the value of the Trump hotel in DC is somehow materially impacted by whether or not the prime minister of Slobbovia stays there for one or two nights, then maybe you could start to build a case. But without that, nothing much.

Since we are all so intensely interested in the depth of ego and vanity that Trump holds ----- here is a little breather:

I'll take "Who mentions himself 467 times in one speech" for 80, Alex

Edited to add: there’s a video fast-cut of all 467 self-referential instances. The 'fast' cut runs for over four-and-a-half minutes. Somebody was talking about the problems of ego and narcissism in this thread somewhere, right?

(04-08-2019 08:19 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:10 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Owl#s, back to the hotel question. So do you think the owning of a business, such as Trump’s hotel, does or doesn’t open up an avenue of a potential conflict of interest?

I think breathing opens you up to one or more POTENTIAL conflicts of interest. But to have an ACTUAL conflict of interest, or even a conflict of interest sufficiently likely to be a problem, requires a bit more.

If you can establish that the value of the Trump hotel in DC is somehow materially impacted by whether or not the prime minister of Slobbovia stays there for one or two nights, then maybe you could start to build a case. But without that, nothing much.

What about the prime minister of Slobbovia changing the location of a large conference from a previously booked venue?

One, you're focusing on a single evening, when hotels serve multiple functions and revenue streams are numerous. Two, you're also only focusing on the real estate value and how someone staying there affects that.

In regard to the real estate value, that was definitely affected when Trump was involved with the decision to not move the FBI headquarters out of DC and keep it at its current location - across the street from his hotel. Had the FBI headquarters left, the land would have been ripe for redevelopment by a competitor. Conflict of interest much?

(04-08-2019 08:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:52 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You overlook the detailed psychoanalysis that follows, dont you? Let me repost:

Quote:He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel

I will remember this post any time you or Owl#s offer your opinions on people. The hills y’all are willing to die on...
Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

It's one thing to state an opinion. It's quite another to post that opinion as absolute fact, and to go further by positing a prediction based upon that opinion. I think Trump probably is vain and egotistical--I don't see how anyone could put up with what is required to become president otherwise. But to state further the conclusion that Tanq quoted above is way beyond what you either have sufficient professional qualifications or have performed sufficient clinical procedures to assess.

What you are saying is, "It is my opinion that Trump is X, and based upon that opinion, I can state affirmatively that Y is a conflict of interest." It's everything after "based on" that is the overreach.

(04-08-2019 08:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:52 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You overlook the detailed psychoanalysis that follows, dont you? Let me repost:

Quote:He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel

I will remember this post any time you or Owl#s offer your opinions on people. The hills y’all are willing to die on...
Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

It's one ting to state an opinion. It's quite another to post that opinion as absolute fact, and to go further by positing a prediction based upon tat opinion. I think Trump probably is vain and egotistical--I don't see how anyone could put up with what is required to become president otherwise. But to state further the conclusion that Tanq quoted above is way beyond what you either have the professional qualifications or have performed the clinical procedures to assess.

Hahaha, ok. Keep going down this path that I somehow was providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump. I'll still remember this conversation for the future. This is actually making me laugh out loud.

(04-08-2019 08:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:52 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You overlook the detailed psychoanalysis that follows, dont you? Let me repost:

Quote:He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel

I will remember this post any time you or Owl#s offer your opinions on people. The hills y’all are willing to die on...
Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

It's one ting to state an opinion. It's quite another to post that opinion as absolute fact, and to go further by positing a prediction based upon tat opinion. I think Trump probably is vain and egotistical--I don't see how anyone could put up with what is required to become president otherwise. But to state further the conclusion that Tanq quoted above is way beyond what you either have the professional qualifications or have performed the clinical procedures to assess.

Hahaha, ok. Keep going down this path that I somehow was providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump. I'll still remember this conversation for the future. This is actually making me laugh out loud.

Please do. If I ever make a statement such as 'so and so is the type of xyz who would definitely be blah blah blah' with zero basis other than what I gleaned off of MSNBC or CNN, then yes, I should be called out for it.

And you keep trying to avoid that you went that deep. Not only that, you seemingly try to 'airbrush' it way with a 'Yeah Trump isnt vain' retort, that had zero to do with what was called out.

I know a bunch of trial attorneys that are always looking for cogent 'insta deep analysis' people for jury selection. Should I refer them to this thread so they can contact you?

(04-08-2019 08:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:52 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You overlook the detailed psychoanalysis that follows, dont you? Let me repost:

Quote:He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel

I will remember this post any time you or Owl#s offer your opinions on people. The hills y’all are willing to die on...
Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

It's one ting to state an opinion. It's quite another to post that opinion as absolute fact, and to go further by positing a prediction based upon tat opinion. I think Trump probably is vain and egotistical--I don't see how anyone could put up with what is required to become president otherwise. But to state further the conclusion that Tanq quoted above is way beyond what you either have the professional qualifications or have performed the clinical procedures to assess.

Hahaha, ok. Keep going down this path that I somehow was providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump. I'll still remember this conversation for the future. This is actually making me laugh out loud.

So, "He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel," is not somehow providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump? Really? Then what is it?

(04-08-2019 09:14 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 07:52 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You overlook the detailed psychoanalysis that follows, dont you? Let me repost:

I will remember this post any time you or Owl#s offer your opinions on people. The hills y’all are willing to die on...
Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

It's one ting to state an opinion. It's quite another to post that opinion as absolute fact, and to go further by positing a prediction based upon tat opinion. I think Trump probably is vain and egotistical--I don't see how anyone could put up with what is required to become president otherwise. But to state further the conclusion that Tanq quoted above is way beyond what you either have the professional qualifications or have performed the clinical procedures to assess.

Hahaha, ok. Keep going down this path that I somehow was providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump. I'll still remember this conversation for the future. This is actually making me laugh out loud.

So, "He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel," is not somehow providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump? Really? Then what is it?

What's the psychiatric diagnosis? Rich Guy Complex?

It's an evaluation of someone's likely response to a situation. It's the same thing as saying something like "Hilary is the type of corrupt politician who would hide a crime to get ahead."

(04-08-2019 09:33 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 09:14 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 08:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I will remember this post any time you or Owl#s offer your opinions on people. The hills y’all are willing to die on...
Trump ISN’T vain. Lol.

It's one ting to state an opinion. It's quite another to post that opinion as absolute fact, and to go further by positing a prediction based upon tat opinion. I think Trump probably is vain and egotistical--I don't see how anyone could put up with what is required to become president otherwise. But to state further the conclusion that Tanq quoted above is way beyond what you either have the professional qualifications or have performed the clinical procedures to assess.

Hahaha, ok. Keep going down this path that I somehow was providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump. I'll still remember this conversation for the future. This is actually making me laugh out loud.

So, "He’s the kind of already wealthy person who can be influenced by people even spending a single night at his hotel," is not somehow providing some sort of psychiatric diagnosis of Trump? Really? Then what is it?

What's the psychiatric diagnosis? Rich Guy Complex?
It's an evaluation of someone's likely response to a situation. It's the same thing as saying something like "Hilary is the type of corrupt politician who would hide a crime to get ahead."

I would argue that one of those is a lot more specific than the other, but whatever. So you're just spitballing based on conjecture? Got it.