(09-23-2016 12:15 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: Stop and frisk works wonders.
It's also BS constitutionally.
Pick your poison.
Not according to the Supreme Court.
Correct.
Not yet but it will be.
I doubt it. Even the judge who over-turned it merely said it had to specify 'place'. The ability to suspend some civil liberties based on time and place (including times or places of high crime/disorder) has been around for 2+ centuries.
If your argument is that a court with another 'progressive' on it might disagree... okay... but they'd be making laws, not interpreting them.
Does anyone disagree that civil liberties can be suspended under the right set of circumstances? Stop and Frisk is far from the worst thing that could happen. The debate now merely becomes whether a 'high crime neighborhood' meets that definition.
Haven't states of emergency and suspension of civil rights occurred recently in response to 'crimes'?
(09-23-2016 01:48 PM)Kaplony Wrote: Terry v. Ohio was decided in 1968.
That's not the 'stop and frisk' we're talking about.
That's the problem with assigning a nickname to things... people assume that it means the same thing as it did in a different context.
In Fact, it's known as the Terry law specifically because it was issued to comply with the decision in Terry.
Yes, the official NYPD stop and frisk policy is just renaming a Terry stop. The court case in question has more to do with implementation than by the official policy itself.
"PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
What rights are being violated? The ultimate arbiter of our Constitutional rights, the Supreme Court, has already ruled that Terry stops, which is what "stop and frisk" is, are not a violation of anyone's civil rights.
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
I don't think it's that extreme, just that they don't mind it because it isn't being suggested to happen to them. It's suggested to happen to 'other'.
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
(09-22-2016 02:34 PM)john01992 Wrote: "If you've broken a local law, you are no longer illegally searched however."
That is literally the exact opposite of how the consititution works.
So it appears you hate the constitution as well (or at the very least don't understand it).
So by your logic if you BREAK the law, you do not get searched.
you can't go fishing searching people in the hopes you find something. you need to have a legitimate reason for conducting a search. that's like a founding principle of the constitution and it is scary you don't understand that.
High crime area, flying gang colors, fitting a description, etc, etc, etc... legitimate reason.
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
I don't think it's that extreme, just that they don't mind it because it isn't being suggested to happen to them. It's suggested to happen to 'other'.
The ultimate arbiter of our Constitutional rights decided almost a half century ago that a Terry stop, which is what "stop and frisk" is, is not a violation of one's civil rights. So what exactly are you two whining about?
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
I don't think it's that extreme, just that they don't mind it because it isn't being suggested to happen to them. It's suggested to happen to 'other'.
The ultimate arbiter of our Constitutional rights decided almost a half century ago that a Terry stop, which is what "stop and frisk" is, is not a violation of one's civil rights. So what exactly are you two whining about?
I don't think I'm whining. I just don't like the idea of the law and that's it. I'm not really questioning the constitutionality of it.
I do have a problem with the fact that Trump makes these suggestions in front of very few black people. He's just saying this because his followers love to hear this crap.
I'll gladly answer more questions you have over PM, if there are more.
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
I don't think it's that extreme, just that they don't mind it because it isn't being suggested to happen to them. It's suggested to happen to 'other'.
The ultimate arbiter of our Constitutional rights decided almost a half century ago that a Terry stop, which is what "stop and frisk" is, is not a violation of one's civil rights. So what exactly are you two whining about?
I don't think I'm whining. I just don't like the idea of the law and that's it. I'm not really questioning the constitutionality of it.
I do have a problem with the fact that Trump makes these suggestions in front of very few black people. He's just saying this because his followers love to hear this crap.
I'll gladly answer more questions you have over PM, if there are more.
He made the suggestion at an African-American town hall in direct response to a question posed to him by an African-American man.
Exactly how many African-Americans does he need around to make these suggestion in your opinion?
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
I don't think it's that extreme, just that they don't mind it because it isn't being suggested to happen to them. It's suggested to happen to 'other'.
That's a bit like asking what you think of speed bumps. If you have a problem with people speeding down your streets, they might be a good idea. If you don't have that problem, then it's just a nuisance. High crime areas (the subject) obviously have a problem (high crime)
We can debate whether this place or that place is high crime (what the NY judge seemed to be asking) but once that determination is made, race is immaterial. It's the area, not the race. Low crime areas (black white or green) wouldn't be subject to it.
(09-23-2016 02:00 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: "PROTECT OUR RIGHTS" Conservatives shout. Unless it's the right of minority citizens to walk the streets free of harassment of police without probable cause.
I don't think it's that extreme, just that they don't mind it because it isn't being suggested to happen to them. It's suggested to happen to 'other'.
The ultimate arbiter of our Constitutional rights decided almost a half century ago that a Terry stop, which is what "stop and frisk" is, is not a violation of one's civil rights. So what exactly are you two whining about?
I don't think I'm whining. I just don't like the idea of the law and that's it. I'm not really questioning the constitutionality of it.
I do have a problem with the fact that Trump makes these suggestions in front of very few black people. He's just saying this because his followers love to hear this crap.
I'll gladly answer more questions you have over PM, if there are more.
He made the suggestion at an African-American town hall in direct response to a question posed to him by an African-American man.
Exactly how many African-Americans does he need around to make these suggestion in your opinion?
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/oQ1JJjb9HCIQo/giphy.gif)
There are high crime white neighborhoods too.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlIbzTDGWY0ySly/giphy.gif)