(07-07-2016 08:42 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Would the officer be charged with murder then?

Nah, probably no charges.

A bad shooting. The poor guy in he car did exactly as you are taught to do. The Officer should be charged and for sure never allowed to ever carry a firearm again.

(07-07-2016 08:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:42 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Would the officer be charged with murder then?

premeditation is a key factor in a murder charge. That seems to be lacking here.

Second degree murder does not typically require premeditation.

(07-07-2016 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:42 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Would the officer be charged with murder then?

premeditation is a key factor in a murder charge. That seems to be lacking here.

Second degree murder does not typically require premeditation.

good point. I assumed he was asking about 1st degree. If everything is as seems in the video, this is as close to murder by a cop that I have seen.

The officer made a fatal mistake.

Voluntary manslaughter carries 15 years in MN and/or a $30k fine. That's probably what he is facing.

(07-07-2016 10:35 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:42 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Would the officer be charged with murder then?

premeditation is a key factor in a murder charge. That seems to be lacking here.

Second degree murder does not typically require premeditation.

good point. I assumed he was asking about 1st degree. If everything is as seems in the video, this is as close to murder by a cop that I have seen.

Agreed.

(07-07-2016 09:13 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:50 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I posted this video in the black carry vs. white carry thread. As for the above police state commentary. I'm generally fond of life and I want to stay alive. When I am pulled over now I roll down my window, turn off the radio, put both hands at the ten and two and spread out my fingers and look straight ahead. I want that officer calm in his interactions with me. I like life and he could take mine. These guys have such a hard job. Police state Mumbai jumbo or not. I was raised to respect authority. Those life lessons have served me well over the years.

I just read above. I'm going to start getting out my license and registration to and have them in my hands now. I've also been let off every time I do this now. All these guys want to do is finish their shift and get back home at night. They are human. They make mistakes. They are your neighbors and friends doing the toughest job in society. General rule. Obey the law and their commands and you won't end up on Channel 11 news and you have a good shot at saving the money on your ticket.

Agree

If you're able to obtain your license, registration, and insurance prior to LEO coming to your vehicle, then that is also good. I have my registration card and DL in wallet with insurance card in center console.

Remember this ......... anything that makes it easier for the LEO, brings his stress level down and suspicion lower. Once this is achieved, you are less likely to have a confrontational traffic stop.

I worked as a LEO years ago and it's routine at times but also stressful. Walking up to a car by yourself in the dark with cue beam at rear of vehicle, windows rolled up, numerous people in car, passengers talking, engine running, traffic behind you 6 feet going 50mph and not being able to see it because you're keeping your eye on all the patrons in vehicle moving their hands, not showing their hands, talking over one another, not doing what their instructed, passenger adults not carrying ANY form of ID, driver not the owner of vehicle etc etc etc.

Just the few things I mentioned in my previous post can go a LONG way for making EVERYONES night safer!!!!

I've had times when I did all of the right things (ID pulled, lights on, hands on wheel, etc) and things gone well. I've had times where I did the same and the cop was a dick. At some level there needs to be better training and/or vetting of officers IMO. We keep referring to what the offender should do but completely neglecting that the offender is not the "trained professional" in these situations.

Victim's gf said he told the cop about the conceal carry as he was reaching for his license/reg. He should have told the cop he had a conceal carry while his hands were on the steering wheel and this never happens. From the cops pov, the guy says he has a gun and appears to be reaching for it. Keep your hands on the steering wheel.

This is horrible. If this cop was this jumpy and nerve racked he SHOULD not have been on duty. There was obviously a serious lack of training conducted for this officer. This incident flat out disgusts me, especially as a Hispanic and concealed carry holder. I'm coming to the conclusion that this cop just drew and fired without just drawing first. Plugging four rounds into him like that showed me this cop intended to kill him when he reached into his pocket. This cop needs to do some serious time, I usually try to give cops the benefit of the doubt but there is just simply NONE to be had here.

(07-07-2016 12:57 PM)dbacard Wrote:  Victim's gf said he told the cop about the conceal carry as he was reaching for his license/reg. He should have told the cop he had a conceal carry while his hands were on the steering wheel and this never happens. From the cops pov, the guy says he has a gun and appears to be reaching for it. Keep your hands on the steering wheel.

Yep. The guy probably had a record too. I can see how it was his fault for not pausing long enough between when he told the cop about the conceal carry and doing what the cop asked of him in producing the wallet. I usually count 3 mississippis.

(07-07-2016 10:43 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 10:35 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 10:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 08:42 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Would the officer be charged with murder then?

premeditation is a key factor in a murder charge. That seems to be lacking here.

Second degree murder does not typically require premeditation.

good point. I assumed he was asking about 1st degree. If everything is as seems in the video, this is as close to murder by a cop that I have seen.

Agreed.

Not if the guy had been to jail before.

At what point do police quit becoming blameless in all this stuff? They are the damn professionals. They are the ones "trained". I'm not a cop but I'm certain their training doesn't first step consist of "shoot".

(07-07-2016 01:52 PM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  At what point do police quit becoming blameless in all this stuff? They are the damn professionals. They are the ones "trained". I'm not a cop but I'm certain their training doesn't first step consist of "shoot".

I will continue to defend the police. I will not try and defend this officer. He got nervous and shot this innocent man. I feel terrible for his family and friends. Should never have happened. He didn't do anything but follow instructions. A real travesty.

How many more times are we going to watch something like this happen and do nothing?

(07-07-2016 02:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How many more times are we going to watch something like this happen and do nothing?

In this case, how do you know nothing will be done?

(07-07-2016 02:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How many more times are we going to watch something like this happen and do nothing?

Want to take guns away from the cops Fit?

(07-07-2016 02:29 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How many more times are we going to watch something like this happen and do nothing?

Want to take guns away from the cops Fit?

Did I say that?

(07-07-2016 02:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:29 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How many more times are we going to watch something like this happen and do nothing?

Want to take guns away from the cops Fit?

Did I say that?

Well what do you want to do? Obviously the evil gun did this, not the trigger happy cop.

(07-07-2016 02:36 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:29 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How many more times are we going to watch something like this happen and do nothing?

Want to take guns away from the cops Fit?

Did I say that?

Well what do you want to do? Obviously the evil gun did this, not the trigger happy cop.

I want what every other reasonable person would ask for. An independent investigation.